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Is The Mankind Initiative’s #ViolenceIsViolence video a fraud?

The We Hunted the Mammoth Pledge Drive continues! If you haven’t already, please consider sending some bucks my way. (And don’t worry that the PayPal page says Man Boobz.) Thanks! And thanks again to all who’ve already donated.

The ManKind Initiative, a UK organization devoted to fighting domestic violence against men, recently put out a video that’s been getting a lot of attention in the media and online, racking up more than six million views on YouTube in a little over a week.

The brief video, titled #ViolenceIsViolence, purports to depict the radically different reactions of bystanders to staged incidents of domestic violence between a couple in a London plaza. When the man was the aggressor, shoving the woman and grabbing her face, bystanders intervened and threatened to call the police. When the woman was the aggressor, the video shows bystanders laughing, and no one does a thing.

The video has been praised by assorted Men’s Rights Activists, naturally enough, but it has also gotten uncritical attention in some prominent media outlets as well, from Marie Claire to the Huffington Post.

There’s just one problem: The video may be a fraud, using deceptive editing to distort incidents that may well have played out quite differently in real life.

A shot-by-shot analysis of the video from beginning to end reveals that the first “incident” depicted is actually a composite of footage shot of at least two separate incidents, filmed on at least three different times of day and edited together into one narrative.

A careful viewing of the video also reveals that many of the supposed “reaction shots” in the video are not “reaction shots” at all, but shots taken in the same plaza at different times and edited in as if they are happening at the same time as the staged “incidents” depicted.

Moreover, none of the people depicted as laughing at the second incident are shown in the same frame as the fighting couple. There is no evidence that any of them were actually laughing at the woman attacking the man.

The editing tricks used in the video were brought to my attention by a reader who sent me a link to a blog entry by Miguel Lorente Acosta, a Professor of Legal Medicine at the University of Granada in Spain, and a Government Delegate for Gender Violence in Spain’s Ministry of Equality. He goes through the video shot by shot, showing each trick for what it is.

The post in Spanish, and his argument is a little hard to follow through the filter of Google Translate, so I will offer my own analysis of the video below, drawing heavily on his post. (His post is still worth reading, as he covers several examples of deceptive editing I’ve left out.)

I urge you to watch the video above through once, then follow me through the following analysis.

The first “incident” is made up of footage taken at three distinct times, if not more. The proof is in the bench.

In the opening shot of the video, we see an overview of the plaza. We see two people sitting on a bench, a man in black to the left and a woman in white to the right, with a trash can to the right of them. (All of these lefts and rights are relative to us, the viewers.) The trash can has an empty green bag hanging off of it.

vv1bench

As the first incident begins, we see the same bench, only now we see two women sitting where the man was previously sitting. The trash can now has a full bag of trash sitting next to it.

vv2bench

In this shot, showing bystanders intervening in what is portrayed as the same fight, and supposedly depicting a moment in time only about 30 seconds after the previous shot, we see that the two women on the bench have been replaced by two men, one in a suit and the other in a red hoodie. The full trash bag has been removed, and the trash can again has an empty trash bag hanging off of it.

vv5benchtrash

Clearly this portion of the video does not depict a single incident.

What about the reaction shots? The easiest way to tell that the reaction shots in the video did not chronologically follow the shots that they come after in the video is by looking at the shadows. Some of the video was shot when the sky was cloudy and shadows were indistinct. Other shots were taken in direct sunlight. In the video, shots in cloudy weather are followed immediately by shots in roughly the same location where we see bright sunlight and clear shadows.

Here’s one shot, 9 seconds in. Notice the lack of clear shadows; the shadow of the sitting woman is little more than a vague smudge.

vvmuted

Here’s another shot from less than a second later in the same video – the timestamp is still at 9 seconds in. Now the plaza is in direct sunlight and the shadows are sharp and distinct.

vvbright

If you watch the video carefully, you can see these sorts of discontinuities throughout. It seems highly unlikely that the various reaction shots actually depict reactions to what they appear to be reactions to. Which wouldn’t matter if this were a feature film; that’s standard practice. But this purports to be a depiction of real incidents caught on hidden camera and presented as they happened in real time.

The issue of non-reaction reaction shots is especially important when it comes to the second incident. In the first incident, we see a number of women, and one man, intervening to stop the violence. There is no question that’s what’s going on, because we see them in the same frame as the couple.

In the second incident, none of the supposed laughing onlookers ever appear in the same frame as the fighting couple. We have no proof that their laughter is in fact a reaction to the woman attacking the man. And given the dishonest way that the video is edited overall, I have little faith that they are real reaction shots.

The people who are in frame with the fighting couple are either trying resolutely to ignore the incident – as many of the onlookers also did in the first incident – or are clearly troubled by it.

I noticed one blonde woman who looked at first glance like she might have been laughing, but after pausing the video it became clear that she was actually alarmed and trying to move out of the way.

vvnervousblonde

There is one other thing to note about the two incidents. In the first case, the onlookers didn’t intervene until after the man escalated his aggression by grabbing the woman by her face. In the second video, the screen fades to black shortly after the woman escalates her aggression to a similar level. We don’t know what, if anything, happened after that.

Is it possible that the first part of the video, despite being a composite of several incidents, depicts more or less accurately what happened each time the video makers tried this experiment? Yes. Is it possible that onlookers did indeed laugh as the woman attacked the man? Yes.

But there is only one way for The ManKind Initiative to come clean and clear up any suspicion: they need to post the unedited, time-stamped footage of each of the incidents they filmed from each of their three cameras so we can see how each incident really played out in real time and which, if any, of the alleged reactions were actual reactions.

In addition to the editing tricks mentioned above, we don’t know if the video makers edited out portions of the staged attacks that might have influenced how the bystanders reacted.

The video makers should also post the footage of the incidents that they did not use for the advert, so we can see if reactions to the violence were consistently different when the genders of attackers and victims were switched. Two incidents make up a rather small sample – even if one of these incidents is actually two incidents disguised as one.

Domestic violence against men is a real and serious problem. But you can’t fight it effectively with smoke and mirrors.

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Posted on May 30, 2014, in domestic violence, MRA, shit that never happened and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 933 Comments.

  1. fruitloopsie,
    rotfl

  2. The rest of us grew up in ivory towers where little birds tied the bows in our hair every morning.

    Oh, you poor dear. I grew up in a diamond tower where my meals were prepared for me by magical rainbow unicorns.

  3. Anand comes to blog that explicitly states it is about mocking misogyny. Anand gets mocked after saying offensive anti-feminist things. Anand is shocked and hurt by the mocking.

    It’s like an Onion headline.

  4. Anand, lots of people get bullied. In second grade I got a lead role as Anatzi the spider. For the rest of the year, a group of kids in the fourth and fifth grades chased me around, yelling “We’re going to crush you, you little spider”, and other like phrases.

    I got cornered by some kids with a sharpie, and they wrote “Dummie” on my arms. They even misspelled it, which was uber annoying. I wore long sleeves for a week to hide it. My sister caught on, and told my mother, and my mom ended up wandering the playground at recess, since it was obvious that the school wasn’t doing their job.

    I was one of the smart kids. In sixth grade, three of the other smart kids started trying to gaslight me into believing I was an idiot, and it worked.

    Yes. You were bullied. Yes, hearing the echoes of bullies can hurt. No, it isn’t an excuse to dismiss criticism. We aren’t the kids you were in middle school with. You aren’t one of the jerks who chased me.

    However, you are consistently missing the point and insisting that you are far more fair and balanced than you really are. Could you try lurking for a bit?

    Read the comments, here. Don’t argue with them, just read for a bit. You won’t understand unless you are willing to drop your internalized preconceptions, and just listen.

    Seriously.

  5. “Misogynist shocked by mocking at feminist site”
    “I only wanted to explain to them about men being the real victims,” (blank) said. “I expected them to discuss it with me rationally, but instead they used language that I am not accustomed to hear from ladies. Frankly, I was terrified that they might hurt me,” he said, referring to an encounter that took place entirely on the internet. “When I told them why women shouldn’t vote, I mean, I didn’t mean it personally. It’s just an abstract political idea that shouldn’t bother anybody to discuss.”

  6. Oh, you poor dear. I grew up in a diamond tower where my meals were prepared for me by magical rainbow unicorns.

    *sniff*
    I try to cope.

  7. anecdotal evidence is only valid when it already agrees with their opinion obviously. Otherwise, it isn’t scientific enough.

  8. No position is “neutral”. If you are “neutral” on feminism until it is proven to you that feminism is worthwhile or necessary or correct, then you are implicitly on the side of non-feminism, despite non-feminism having never proved anything to you except for its ability to be accepted as the most common position.

    Why does feminism have to prove what the dominant culture doesn’t?

    You believe that you are unbiased, waiting patiently for enough information to decide, but there is no such thing. You have been raised in a culture, and everything you taught has been biased by that culture. The very language(s) you speak are biased. You are biased.

    So is everyone.

    So if you want to take a stance, take that stance. Don’t sit there and pretend you are neutral, because you’re not. Neutrality doesn’t exist.

  9. magical rainbow unicorns.

    Were they patriarchy unicorns?

  10. I kind of wish this thread hadn’t turned into the Anand show. The OP is really intriguing.

  11. Anand if you really do want to learn here’s an article I suggest you read (although I am heavily, heavily suspicious of your ridiculous over-attempt at presenting yourself as neutral)

    http://feministing.com/2014/05/30/an-open-letter-to-privileged-people-who-play-devils-advocate/

  12. I’m big on facts. I study at a university, gonna be a scientist.
    The more I read science and absorb facts, the more I’m sure that I want to be an active feminist – at least to the limit that my relatively shredded nerves can take. (I have been triggered during a conversation before. Doesn’t make my stand seem very good, but only because the loghead wouldn’t actually listen to my darn point and surely thought I’m just too sensitive.)

    “Agree to disagree” is not productive, so during a discussion that is about important social matters, it’s not a very good call to attempt end things on.

    Oh, and the pissing Olympics between issues ties my panties on a thousand angry knots. There are platforms one can go to talk specifically about, say, male DV victims. There is no need to derail conversations about other demographics.
    Talking about DV in general tends to just evolve into a measuring competition anyway, at least by my experience…

    I’m gonna go play Pokémon now.

  13. I don’t know for sure that this video isn’t a fraud but as your only argument suggesting that it is one is “the original footage has been edited” I strongly suspect you of having written an article with a screaming headline but void of any convincing argument because it will appear in the search results for “mankind initiative” and if slander isn’t as effective as sustanciated criticism it’s still better than nothing.
    Throw dirt enough, and some will stick.

    Also, lol at the Time article quoted in this thread which can be summarized like this “mras are whiny privileged men-children who need to man up”, yeah, guys, don’t perpetuate gender expectations, man up, and remember, the people of this small internet based movement support the all-powefull patriarchy and want to maintain the status quo, not like us, subversive feminists who smash the patriarchy by telling you what to think and excomuniating anti-feminist infidels in the Time. Dat smell of Pravda in the evening lawl.

    The more I see, the more I believe those guys in the manosphere who say that one day you’ll just pretend that feminism never existed.

  14. Have been lurking mostly because I am new to commenting on this site but also because I really didn’t want to engage with Anand and I was not so sure I could hold my tongue.

    However, I feel very strongly about the notion that is it not inherently the job of individuals of oppressed or disenfranchised group (or their allies) to educate people about our actions, philosophies, data (scientific or not), experiences, or reasons for coming together to provide spaces for discussion, support, and release. There are people choose to as a part of their activism, and that is their choice and I respect & commend their efforts.

    Our daily lives are spent navigating intersecting forms of institutional and personal discrimination, oppression, & outright violence. Taking on the additional work of educating, on an individual level, each person who comes into these discussions expecting a tutorial on feminism can add to exhaustion and frustration which is already overwhelming.

    The information in out there. It is out there in droves. There are links on this very site. And it is their responsibility to seek it out and and evaluate it, to give genuine critical thought to what they read and pursue other forms of education if they are still left with questions.

    I am happy to clarify terms or even share my own experiences if people have specific questions, but I am not going to define feminism or its purpose to everyone who comes into these spaces without doing some basic homework.

    That, and that video was a pretty pathetic hack job, especially the continuity issues & the out of context reaction shots. Domestic violence is a serious issue for all genders & orientations, crap like this does nothing to further substantive work to prevent it or to support those who experience it.

  15. fruitloopsie

    I found footage of me and our sisters! I don’t why mom was filming men being killed in the first part. I guess ever since she made some new interior designs to our home she just had to try them out!

    Trigger warning: Extreme Gore and Misandry

    1:50 that’s Jenny
    2:00 Tonya, don’t worry she’s fine
    2:17 that’s Connie’s arm. It fell off when she was fighting him but it reattached itself back onto her
    2:26 the twins Denise and Paige
    2:37 Samantha
    2:54 Samantha again
    3:08 Stephanie and in the background is Coraline
    3:16 Beth is pregnant there
    3:58 That’s me! Yeah it turns out that I didn’t need the scyth I just needed my tentacles! Being the youngest and smallest it was pretty difficult but I got him!
    4:12 Diane
    4:19 Cheyenne
    4:35 Jane
    4:48 Hayley
    5:03 Hayley again
    5:08 Margaret
    5:29 Eleanor she’s much bigger than that, this man cut off her head so she did the same to him.
    5:53 Sally
    6:10 And Kimberly… she didn’t like being recorded.

    There are so many other videos of our sisters but I just wanted to share one it would take forever to show everyone! I hope you enjoyed, Sissies!

  16. Brz,
    If you can’t be bothered to read the post, don’t bother commenting.
    If you are unable to read for comprehension, don’t bother commenting.

    “Man up”?
    Really?
    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

  17. So, BRZ, I take it you didn’t actually read the article which dissects the video and points out the weird inconsistencies and just focused on the title.

    Jean, again, what is your point?

    And I thought I_roll_paladin was banned for spamming.

  18. piratejennie,
    Luv your nym <3

  19. Why thank you, Lea <3

    I wanted Pirate Jenny but someone beat me to it. Arguably my favorite Nina Simone song (with nods to Brecht & Weill) next to Mississippi Goddam.

  20. Oh, right, paladin is banned, shouldn’t have let his comment through. It’s hard to keep track.

  21. Yes I understood that there is different sequences in this video which is somehow very troubling for a video.

    Anyway, until they don’t prove that that all the people in this video aren’t actors, we can suspect them of having staged this in a studio owned by patriarchy corp.

  22. WhatIsThisGravitasOfWhichYouSpeak

    @ sparky It’s almost like he’s deliberately misunderstanding just so he can fake the moral high ground and desperately claim superiority to make himself feel better about the void in his life he can’t fill.

    … Nah, can’t be

  23. your only argument suggesting that it is one is “the original footage has been edited”

    Are you reading the same article as me? Because I think you’re making shit up. (Same goes for that Time article you referred to.)

    subversive feminists who smash the patriarchy by telling you what to think and excomuniating anti-feminist infidels in the Time.

    I swear your writing style and your reading comprehension get worse every time you comment here.

  24. @Ally, lest we forget, English is not his first language. /sarcasm

  25. Faking the moral high ground?. Isn’t it what you all just did in this thread so you can in good conscience bully a guy who wasn’t being confrontational and laugh at him when he told you that he’d been bullied when he was a kid?
    Projection, that’s what a great part of your movement is all about.

  26. Emilygoddess, I personally have never seen this in real life so il take that story with a pinch of salt. But i do agree that there may be some shitheads out there who do this, thing is that they are’nt ‘men’.

    Go sit on cacti forever, you stinking piece of shit. We’re talking about things we have seen and you want to play Mr Sceptic about it and insinuate we’re lying.

    Am I the only one who thinks banhammer time for this?

  27. Faking the moral high ground?. Isn’t it what you all just did in this thread so you can in good conscience bully a guy who wasn’t being confrontational and laugh at him when he told you that he’d been bullied when he was a kid?
    Projection, that’s what a great part of your movement is all about.

    No fuckwit. We someone for devil’s advocate trolling and entitlement. Both are derailing tactics. Then he tried to guilt trip us for it.

    It’s not like we doxxed him and are embarking on a harassment campaign like your side does.

    Piss off now please.

  28. We did have a discussion a few months ago about whether to use an asterisk after trans — Ally said she doesn’t use one, and had a whole background on its use or non-use that was, as usual, coherent and educational, and I can’t remember it at all. My brain is swiss cheese.

    The problem with the asterisk is that, in the way it is currently used, it represents a force-teaming of trans women and trans men (and more generally, all AMAB trans people and all AFAB trans people). Such an intragroup dynamic is oppressive because it equates the transphobia that trans men face with the transphobia that trans women face. Yet trans men have male privilege and also benefit from transmisogyny due to being men. Essentially, the problem with the asterisk is a subset of a larger problem of trans women being silenced when they speak about transmisogyny and trans men’s male privilege.

    It’s kind of like how white folks say “We’re all just one human race” or “I’m colorblind – I never think about your skin color” in order to pretend to engage in anti-racism while also ignoring the socially constructed reality of racism within human relationships and therefore ignoring an essential part of a POC’s identity.

  29. Faking the moral high ground?. Isn’t it what you all just did in this thread so you can in good conscience bully a guy who wasn’t being confrontational and laugh at him when he told you that he’d been bullied when he was a kid?
    Projection, that’s what a great part of your movement is all about.

    Brz, don’t pretend like you don’t know why Anand got his ass handed to him. It’s the same reason you always do–saying offensive shit and pretending you didn’t.

    Man-child, you project bigger than IMAX.

  30. Ah no, while it’s true that sometimes I kinda get confused with your conception of what is offensive and what isn’t (for example why saying that someone is stupid is ableist when stupidity isn’t a diagnosed mental illness and why you don’t find offensive to imply that mentally ill people are stupid or why Ally S saying that trans men benefit from transmisoginy isn’t offensive) but I’ve always made it clear that I don’t care about offending your fake pearl-clutching consciences.

  31. I disagree with the assessment of Anand being non-confrontational and whether or not that even matters.

    Saying deliberately confrontational things (such as not being sure whether or not the majority of feminists are man-haters, becasue of, you know science) and then backpedaling into a bluster of apologies or claims of misinterpretation does not let someone off the hook for criticism.

    Stating that you are not here to argue while posting theories and statements that open room for debate is also a form of confrontation and should not be ignored just becasue they are followed by claims of simply doing research or being an impartial observer.

    Even if someone’s intention is not to confront, coming on to a site where open debate is part of the purpose then claiming you don’t want to participate is disingenuous at best.

  32. Brz, don’t worry.

    My conscience doesn’t have fake pearls to clutch. It thinks they’re far too melodramatic.

    This thread has passed it’s troll capacity. Please move along, now.

  33. Katz, love the house, btw.

    Could I visit? And would the magnificent steed prefer apple, peppermint, or sweet-grain flavored biscuits?

  34. Brz,
    You’re clearly a misogynist. You clearly aren’t too bright or honest.
    You’ve seen that this is a site for mocking people exactly like you.
    You’re a troll and you’re about to be fed until you pop.
    You might want to rethink some of your life choices at this moment.
    You might want to go do something other than sputter, lie and complain about what big meanies feminists are. I’m only saying this because you sound like a spoiled little teen and I’d feel bad if I didn’t warn you that things are about to get jovial up in here at your expense.

  35. Or, what Lea said.

    And second on the pearl clutching…I left those behind with my fainting couch & hysteria

  36. or why Ally S saying that trans men benefit from transmisoginy isn’t offensive

    Wat

  37. why Ally S saying that trans men benefit from transmisoginy isn’t offensive

    I wasn’t claiming that all trans men are transmisogynistic. There’s a difference between saying that all trans men are transmisogynistic and saying that all trans men benefit from transmisogyny. It’s like saying all white people benefit from white supremacy as opposed to saying that all white people enthusiastically support white supremacy. In no way am I denying the very real hatred and discrimination that trans men often receive for being trans.

    Just like your abymsal understanding of feminist critiques of pornography, your understanding of trans issues is zero.

  38. Brz,

    I don’t recall anyone saying the word stupid is ableist. You probably just made an ableist comment that contained the word stupid.

    How is it offensive to say that trans men can have male privilege and benefit from tranmisogyny?

    Are you going to mansplain transmisogyny to Ally now? I don’t think that will go to well for you.

  39. for example why saying that someone is stupid is ableist when stupidity isn’t a diagnosed mental illness and why you don’t find offensive to imply that mentally ill people are stupid

    I’m fine with saying “stupid”, but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand the arguments that it’s wrong. Saying someone is “stupid” implies they’re wrong simply for being unintelligent, not because they’re an asshole or making logical mistakes. Implying people are lesser due to lesser intelligence is inherently ableist since it bases value on mental ability.
    Also words like “dumb” and “stupid” often originated as insults towards the disabled.

    This really isn’t hard to understand, even if you disagree with it.

  40. Well, it seems that I’m about to educate you. Close your eyes and let the light of Social Justice fill you :http://isthisableism.tumblr.com/post/57603529536/using-ableist-slurs-is-never-okay-ever

  41. Brz probably thinks it’s ableist to use the word stupid because it’s been used to describe him so often. Bad luck for him that it’s not ableist, but it is true.

  42. Brz: Stop trying to play some gotcha. If you’d spent ay time here reading instead of FauxFrench bloviating, you’d know we’re not a hivemind ad don’t all agree on ableist terms, outside of the big obvious ones.

    Nice try, chump.

  43. So Brz really despises the very idea of social justice, with his trite attempts at irony. Who’d have thought, eh? Why should anyone but white straight cis dudes get any consideration at all?

  44. I literally just summarized what some sjws say about the word “stupid”.

  45. But Auggz, Brz had to be all manly and shit and drop his own link. Your ladybrain wouldn’t get it.

    /sarcasm

  46. for example why saying that someone is stupid is ableist when stupidity isn’t a diagnosed mental illness and why you don’t find offensive to imply that mentally ill people are stupid

    Anti-disablist arguments against the use of words like that don’t rest on the premise that “stupidity” is a mental illness. They rest on the premise that intelligence is a dimension of ability, and so insulting people for being “stupid” is tantamount to insulting someone for having a deficient mental ability. That you think those arguments imply that mentally disabled people are “stupid” demonstrates your extremely poor comprehension, which isn’t anything new to us.

  47. JakeFromStateFarm

    I kind of had a feeling that video was fake

  48. emilygoddess

    I need to convince myself that avfm is completely misogynistic before i can dismiss them as a joke.

    You said yourself they post misogynistic stuff, but they haven’t hit a threshold where they’re too misogynistic to read. Dude, no site is going to be 100% misogynistic – even the most obnoxious hateblog will have a cat post or an open thread or something.

    @ thread re Jean’s videos: is Sharon Osborne on the Bingo cards? She really should be. She’s right up there with Zombie Solanas and “big red”.

    Oh Moobz… Just stop. Just back away from this one. Given your history with commenting on male rape and abuse, you need to stop digging yourself deeper.

    No one who aligns himself with MRAs has any right to criticize other people’s positions on the abuse of men.

    Omnicrom, i dont believe anything anyone says without defenite proof.

    How does this work in real life? If I tell you I had tortellini for lunch, would you demand pics?

    No position is “neutral”. If you are “neutral” on feminism until it is proven to you that feminism is worthwhile or necessary or correct, then you are implicitly on the side of non-feminism

    Funny how he keeps ignoring this point.

    bully a guy who wasn’t being confrontational

    But he was. Why do you idiots always think that couching your bullshit in pretty words magically makes it polite?

    saying that someone is stupid is ableist

    Links or it didn’t happen. I’ve never seen that accepted here.

    I don’t care about offending your fake pearl-clutching consciences.

    Look, asshole, it’s one thing to say you don’t agree with someone’s reasons for being upset, but where do you get off accusing us of not actually caring about this shit? What evidence do you have?

  49. me and not you

    Birds with bows and unicorns preparing meals? Aw man, all I’ve got is a cat who likes to bring live wild animals into the house. (and then she gets mad when I let them escape) I’ve tried to teach her how to order a pizza online but she doesn’t get the toppings right…

  50. emilygoddess

    I don’t recall anyone saying the word stupid is ableist. You probably just made an ableist comment that contained the word stupid.

    If I recall correctly (it’s so hard to keep all these idiots straight), this is something that happened at…Feministing? Or Feministe?…that we must also agree with here, because we’re also feminists/SJWs here.

    Well, it seems that I’m about to educate you. Close your eyes and let the light of Social Justice fill you :http://isthisableism.tumblr.com/post/57603529536/using-ableist-slurs-is-never-okay-ever

    Ah, Tumblr, that noted bastion of advanced, thoughtful SJ discourse. What will you dazzle us with next? A YouTube video?

  51. You’re just talking non sense using big words to sound smart :if you consider that insulting a non mentally disabled person of being stupid is insulting to mentally disabled people you imply that mentally disabled people are stupid.

    Try again.

  52. How does this work in real life? If I tell you I had tortellini for lunch, would you demand pics?

    I wonder how genius sceptic boy even gets lunch? If he asks what the specials are, how does he know the waiter’s telling the truth? If he orders pizza, how does he know they’ll deliver it? If he reads a train timetable, how can he believe it?

    It’s the same as what I asked on RS about Rodger’s manifesto and the denial. Q: how many times must a misogynist say he hates women and intends to kill us before he’s believed? A: Unknown, the figure hasn’t been reached yet.

    Anand’s a PoS who reads a site that has “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” and whose owner says he would vote not guilty in a trial of a rapist he knew was guilty, who has said women are begging to be raped, who has said men should slam women’s faces into walls and make them clean their own blood – yet Anand hasn’t decided whether or not AVfM is really misogynistic, and thinks there’s something worth considering about their “perspective”.

    Anand is a mealy-mouthed misogynist and less interesting than the moldy fruit I threw out yesterday.

    As for the buzzing fly, he should have been banned long since, and I’m frankly baffled why David hasn’t done so.

  53. if you consider that insulting a non mentally disabled person of being stupid is insulting to mentally disabled people you imply that mentally disabled people are stupid.

    I’ll clarify. According to the argument, it’s specifically disablist against people with intellectual mental disabilities. So your argument doesn’t apply at all.

  54. And for the record, I didn’t say that I agreed with the argument. It’s almost like people can defend even arguments they don’t necessarily agree with.

  55. You’re just talking non sense using big words to sound smart

    Ha! I love when trolls throw this little turd out. Yeah, we just use big words to “sound” smart because the alternative is that you just don’t get what we are saying and that that we make perfect sense, and you can’t have that!

    <blockquote? f you consider that insulting a non mentally disabled person of being stupid is insulting to mentally disabled people

    and yet . . . that is not what was said. Try again.

  56. Perhaps we should say willfully stupid. Because that sure as hell describes the fuckwitted trolls.

  57. I honestly can’t tell whether Brz thinks stupid is an ableist slur, or whether they think that thinking stupid is an ableist slur is inherently ableist. I’m thinking they are thinking whatever they think we don’t think, at any given instant, so they can feel like a special little sunbeam…

    As to the critique of a diverse lexicon: never use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice! No, really!

  58. Anyway, I’m pretty high and being high makes my vocabulary weird from time to time, so I’ll try to state what the argument is in simpler, more general terms:

    1. Intelligence is a mental ability
    2. Insulting someone* for having a lack of intelligence is prejudiced against people with mental disabilities relating to intelligence
    3. Therefore, insulting someone’s intelligence is disablist.

    See? Pretty simple.

    *Whether they are actually mentally disabled is irrelevant.

  59. And for your argument to be valid, the opposing argument would have to rest on the assumption that “stupid” is disablist against all mentally disabled people because mentally disabled people are necessarily “stupid”. But literally no one makes that argument.

  60. As to the critique of a diverse lexicon: never use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice! No, really!

    I generally agree, but I just don’t see which words he had issues with tbh

    Plus, sometimes there are jargon specific to a discipline so I can see how some feminist writings could seem like gobbledygook to people that don’t have much of a background in it. But, that’s when you keep reading and get out a dictionary and just general try to clarify and you know educate yourself, rather than demand that we talk to him like a small child.

  61. I’ll talk to Brz like a small child. Brz, GO AWAY.

  62. Ah, I learned here that stupid was an ableist slur when Arghenti accused of being of ableist for using this word and provided a 101 link to enlighten me. Oh, I was still pure and innocent at that time.

    “Look, asshole, it’s one thing to say you don’t agree with someone’s reasons for being upset, but where do you get off accusing us of not actually caring about this shit? What evidence do you have?”

    One year ago, I would have say that you seem to genuely care about this shit but now, after having seeing you throwing the ableist stuff only to attack opponents and “silence” as you say those of your own when they start saying that one mysoginist guy may have some mental issues, after having seen how much you don’t care about people’s boundaries when they don’t think the right way, I really do think that you don’t care about this stuff, or that you care about it as long as you can use it as a hammer to hit opponents and dissent. I especially think this while reading Alinsky.

  63. cassandrakitty

    Stop using big words like “dazzle”, Emily. You’re confusing the poor boy.

  64. Brz: If anyone here is bad with boundaries, it’s you. We’ve been telling your fake ass to take a hike for quite a while now.

  65. cassandrakitty

    Are Arghenti and Alinsky friends?

    Cupisnique, you have candy floss colored hair! Which is far more interesting than anything Brz has said today, or ever really.

  66. Seconding cassandrakitty. I love that hair color! I don’t think I’m ambitious enough to try it for myself, though.

  67. Oh, and speaking of hair, what are your guys’ thoughts on hot pink highlights in dark (or even black) hair? Sometimes I think it’s a cool idea, but I feel mixed about it overall because it could probably turn out horrible. I also have no fashion sense, so there’s that as well.

  68. I think that looks good. It’s a bit of work to get and maintain, those kinds of colors tend to fade pretty quick.

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