Men’s Rights Activists respond to the Elliot Rodger murders with a hearty “Nothing to see here! Move along!”
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If anyone was hoping – against their better judgement – that Men’s Rights activists would be inspired by the tragedy in Isla Vista to reconsider any of their beliefs, or even to reflect for a moment on the many striking similarities between passages in Elliot Rodger’s book-length manifesto and comments posted every day by MRAs and others in the manosphere, well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you should not keep that hope alive.
It’s not that they’re not talking about the tragedy. A look through the top 100 posts in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the largest Men’s Rights forum online, reveals that roughly a third of them, including the top stickied post, relate in some way to Elliot Rodger’s rampage and the discussions that have come up online and in the media in its aftermath.
But the message of virtually all of these posts is: “Nothing to see here! Move along!” There are numerous posts expressing outrage that anyone would see any connection between Rodger’s toxic misogyny to the Men’s Rights movement; there are others mocking and attacking the #YesAllWomen hashtag; there’s even one suggesting that Rodger, who wrote about how he longed to watch all the women of the world starve to death in concentration camps, wasn’t actually a misogynist at all.
Take a look. One post, with more than 500 upvotes, complains:
Another post makes a strikingly similar complaint:
One angry MRA asks:
Another wonders:
Sorry to break it to you, fella, but that’s not how defamation suits work. If it were, all of us who call ourselves feminists would be collecting millions of dollars from the Men’s Rights subreddit for all the patently untrue things you guys say about us every day of every week.
Still others make sure that everyone knows that Rodger hated men too – not that this has actually gone unnoticed in the media or in discussions of the tragedy.
And then there’s this fellow, who seems to think that Rodger only hated men, and that his big problem with women was that he loved them too much:
There are, it’s true, two posts that raise the issue of what might be done to prevent tragedies like this from happening in the future. One of them takes on the issue of “virgin shaming.” (Sure, I’m against that, and against slut shaming too. Odd that roughly 100% of the virgin shaming I’ve ever heard in my life has come from MRAs and other non-fans of this blog, even though — sorry to break it to you fellows — I’ve not been a virgin since the early Reagan administration.)
Meanwhile, the other “positive” suggestion — the stickied top post, submitted by one of the forum’s moderators — is pretty transparently intended as a PR move – and an excuse to bash feminists.
Yep, “creep shaming.” That’s the problem! Way to cut through all the bullshit and get to the heart of the matter! The problem isn’t that some men — well, a lot of men — think and act in predatory and entitled ways towards women. The problem is that sometimes when they do, women call them “creeps.”
The problem isn’t that the world’s creepiest and most entitled man just killed 6 innocent people, the problem is “creep shaming.”
After killing his roommates and a friend of theirs, Rodger attempted to get inside a sorority so he could massacre the women inside it. But he couldn’t get anyone to let him in. Probably because, well, whoever was nearest the door thought he looked a bit, well, creepy.
“Creep-shaming” isn’t some insidious form of discrimination against awkward men. It’s a defense mechanism that women develop to protect them against predatory men. And in the case of the Isla Vista murders, I’m guessing that the willingness of women to go with their gut sense that Rodger was a creep literally saved lives.
But the mods of the Men’s Rights subreddit would rather moan about “creep shaming.” They would prefer that women lower their defenses against men like Elliot Rodger — because it hurts their feelings to sometimes get called a “creep.”
Guys, this is why people think Elliot Rodger was an MRA.
EDIT: I added more to the conclusion because I had more to say about creep shaming.
Posted on May 28, 2014, in antifeminism, creep-shaming, elliot rodger, entitled babies, entitlement, hypocrisy, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, misandry, misogyny, MRA, post contains sarcasm, reddit, straw feminists, the eternal solipsism of the MRA mind and tagged anti-feminism, antifeminism, elliot rodger, men's rights, misogyny, MRA, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 532 Comments.
What happened to people being held accountable for their own action?
SBSD did not do their job properly. Blame them.
Blame Elliot for his evil actions.
Blaming MRA sites for whack job does is irrational.
@Davis, You are really betraying your ignorance. The people who did the welfare check on Rodger were not actually psychic. Do you even have any idea what kind of thing they would have need to seen to commit him involuntarily?
SBSD didn’t murder anyone. Elliot Rodger did. He’s at fault.
The MRM didn’t murder anyone either but Rodger’s hatred of women was fostered by it. Killing women is the natural extreme of what the MRM preaches.
But sure, blame everything except Rodger’s hateful misogyny, which is endorsed by MRAs even if they don’t think it should usually result in killing women. (Unless those women come after you for child support, in which case I’ve seen plenty of MRAs advocate killing them.)
Erin or Farmer Joe or Davis or whoever you are, am I to understand that your solution to violence against women is for all men who don’t have a bevy of blonde sorority girls to have sex with and all men who ever had a bad experience with a girl in his teens should cut off all contact, even business or platonic contact with all women. That’s a reasonable solution to you?
What about domestic violence? What’s your solution to that? What excuse do men who commit violence against their girlfriends or wives have.
And yes you are defending Rodgers by saying that having a bad experience with women whether it was real or perceived justifies misogyny.
@Cloudiah
The deputies could looked around his apartment. Like I said, you folks blame MRA sites for everything that happens to women.
FYI, Elliot killed more men than women.
@Suzy
Oh yeah this is definitely not just on the manosphere. In fact I’ve not gone to any manosphere sites the past few days. The denial is all over my facebook and in comment sections which I can only skim before my brain leaks from my ears. Also to clarify, I don’t think misogyny was the only thing at play here, this was clearly a disturbed individual on all levels, but misogyny was a big factor.
@KenL
what gets me though is that even if they don’t see it, women are telling them, and they still deny it or dismiss it as overreacting. They deny it even when they see it in cases like these. How much more do we have to do to make them see it?
In all honesty if this shit keeps happening, then I can see many more women becoming more guarded and cautious. Which of course is going to piss off those particular types of dudes who only give a shit that their boners aren’t being catered to, rather than examining WHY women are not being receptive. Watch all the insults of “bitchy” and “ice queen” double.
No one is claiming they’re at fault for his actions but everything he had to say was straight out of the MRM rule book. That’s where he got his ideas. They are responsible for encouraging his hatred of women and promoting violence against women. That’s what they do.
@treehugger.
What’s wrong with cutting off contact with people who do not like you?
ELLIOT KILLED MORE MEN THAN WOMEN BECAUSE HE WAS UNSUCCESSFUL IN SHOOTING UP A SORORITY FULL OF WOMEN. HAD HE SUCCEEDED HE WOULD HAVE KILLED AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF WOMEN.
How many times are we going to have to repeat this?
I’m going to have a drink. Anyone else?
Did the MRA site members tell Elliot to shoot innocent people. If they did, you need to take screen shots and report them to the police.
YES. TWO DRINKS.
Actually, I think it’s a good idea Davis tries not to associate with women. Why? Read all of his posts. Also, the short temper thing. I mean, if a woman somewhere made fun of him, he might have to remind her that he owns a gun shop or something.
@Davis/Erin/Whoever, You have a very inaccurate understanding of what the SBSD could have done. But sure, keep fixating on that, rather than the real problem. It seems to be something you’re very good at.
David has dealt with this. Numerous commenters have dealt with this.
He intended to slaughter (his words) every single woman in a sorority house. That was his goal. He was thwarted, when he couldn’t gain entry. The gender breakdown of his victims would have been totally different if it weren’t for that.
But sure, keep hand-waving away his stated motivation and intent, and focus on irrelevant things like the fact that SBSD were not psychic.
Good gravy, a cursory Google search will reveal a bevy of examples of MRM site posters discussing the value of violence against women and when killing them is justified.
@Cloudiah
You keep blaming MRA sites for something they are not responsible for, but you give the SBSD a pass for not being more thorough.
“The deputies could looked around his apartment.”
You mean and then find the manifesto? Unless he was stupid enough to leave a print copy on the coffee table, nope. Welfare check =/= search warrant. But if the place was suitable for human habitation and he wasn’t an obvious danger to anyone, then no, they didn’t fail at their jobs. You don’t get to search the apt of an adult just because zir parents think it might be a good idea, you really want to set that precedent?
Which probably would’ve required a search warrant. Which they didn’t have.
Because MRA sites peddle the same kind of misogyny that Rodger’s espoused, and that harms women every day.
BUT HE KILLED PEOPLE BECAUSE HE HATED WOMEN! THAT WAS HIS MOTIVE! THE ONLY REASON HE DIDN’T KILL MORE WOMEN WAS BECAUSE THEY WOULDN’T LET HIM IN THE DOOR OF THE SORORITY HOUSE!
Sorry for shouting, everyone, but cheese and crackers how many times do people have to say this?
OMG guys. Davis is so wise. Nobody has ever made this incredibly original point before!
Everyone gets hurt at some point. The only way your solution works is if men and women are cordoned of on separate continents. Even that doesn’t work because gay, lesbian and bi people get hurt by members of their own sex.
Your solution is incredibly stupid.
David, and the wonderful people of this website- thank you from the bottom of my heart. I was introduced to “The Manoshpere” two years ago after being “plated” and subsequently physically and emotionally abused by several different PUA’s. This website has been an oasis of rational thought and humor as I try to heal from the horribly toxic situations I fell prey to. I’ve been haunted by the demoralizing things that were said to me, and demanded of me. It’s taken me a while to find the courage to introduce myself here. I was targeted the instant I joined OKCupid by a well- known and oft mentioned professional PUA that is a major contributor to a rather infamous website that I will not name. I wrestle with the psychological aftermath the interaction with this person has left upon my psyche. Thank you for leading me to the path of healing. Forgive any breach of posting protocol, I am an avid fan and supporter.
Why is all my booze at my BF’s?! Someone teleport me vodka, stat!
Fuck the vodka, we need a welcome package first!
Treehugger
I am 38 years old and I never had sex. Just because a guy no longer wants to deal with women doesn’t make him gay.
Did someone call for a Welcome Package?
Petition available to classify the MRA as a terrorist group is available for those that feel compelled to sign https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/classify-mens-rights-movement-terrorist-group/W5018W63
Which bears absolutely no connection to what weirwoodtreehugger said, but thanks for that non sequitur.
@Pink
Why do we need to classify a group of frustrated ass pathetic men as terrorist?
They have a right to spew their stupidity just like everyone else.
@pinkfluffyunicrone, A Voice for Men is promoting that petition. And while MRAs are hateful bigots, they’re too unorganized to constitute a terrorist group. I wouldn’t endorse that petition, personally.
Argenti: |_| :)
Davis, are you actually going to respond to anything anyone’s actually said?
The hell is with this petition?
Davis: no 1 curt you’re a virgin. We care that you’re a raging misogynist who’s defending other misogynists.
@ treehugger.
I can be around women, and ignore them. It’s a state of mind.
So much love for you all right now.
Who the hell called you gay? Also, we love gay men here, defensive posture not necessary.
Are you homophobic?
At least Davis is aware on some level that he’s spewing stupidity.
@Quackers
Your right,
There are so many factor that make misogyny so much harder to not see or hear.one factor I think that makes it so is that unlike say racism where a bigot can say “I don’t like (insert ethnic group) but another ethnic group is okay.” Misogyny can not be deflected if you hate woman, you hate woman. so misogynist tend to be quite in a situation where they can be identified. Also unlike say KKK members who seem to enjoy parading around, which causes the public at large to see them and say “yeah this guys are evil”. Misogynist (other then places like AVFM) really don’t get together in large enough numbers for people to have the same reaction to them as other hate groups.
MRA is full of stupidity, but classifying them as terrorist group is beyond stupid.
Wut?
I never said you were. My point was that everyone can’t go avoiding the gender they’re attracted to do just because they’ve been hurt by members of that gender. It’s physically not possible. What about bisexual people who have been rejected by both men and women? Do they have to go live in a cabin alone in the wilderness somewhere?
You have serious reading comprehension issues.
Can someone remind me why AVFM is endorsing the petition again?
Davis, if you haven’t taken the hint and fucked off, do so now.
You’re a misogynist and an ass and you’re not even good at it. You’re just annoying.
Everyone else is right. You can’t just search private property without a warrant or even probable cause, and you can’t commit someone who isn’t, for example, openly suicidal or homicidal. So, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Also, you assume all women act as a hivemind or something, which is ridiculous. Women don’t hate socially awkward men. Most women do, however, hate assholes. Which you are. Maybe you could try to improve yourself or actually go your own way, because no one feels like dealing with you as you are. And no one has said you’re gay, Seriously, do you listen to yourself? I’m assuming no, because anyone with an ounce of self awareness would be too ashamed to keep this up.
Go away.
Shiraz — call me a cynic but my guess is that when it fails they’ll use that as “proof” that the MRM isn’t a hate group.
Sparky — thanks!
“What about bisexual people who have been rejected by both men and women? Do they have to go live in a cabin alone in the wilderness somewhere?”
Does it have internet?
@Shiraz
It’s the old any publicity is good publicity gambit.
JJ is mad.
You cannot control me on this site.
Your problem is that you want to bash men and women who do not submit to feminism. You’re too scared to take your complaints directly to these MRA shit stains. You’re just as pathetic as the MRA bums.
Everyone has the right to shut people out of their lives.
Hi, Davis the construction worker gun salesman! Did you jump threads?
Hi, everyone else! I’m just here for a moment. The Tardis needed to refuel, and Cardiff’s rift is being… Persnickety.
Anyone want a jelly-baby?
I’m nominating Davis for “tool of the week” for his sheer ignorance & trying to tell us he hates women but comes onto a feminist forum anyway. THE IRONY. Hahaha
Davis: Fuck off and leave. You are not original or all that bright.
There’s one person here who can control you. He wields a mean ban hammer. I’m sure you’ll meet eventually.
Prove it, Davis. Quote someone who bashed men and/or non-feminist women.
BTW, you ever gonna answer my question? Do you really think black women are worse than the KKK? Is that what you were trying to say? Do you really think that black women have done more damage than the KKK? Do you know how sexist and racist that is?
The self capitulation of @Davis is also something to be marvelled at. If only my arguments were so flimsy, that they’d blow over when someone with COPD tried breathing on them.
@Davis “you cannot control me”
BAHAHAHAHA
Davis, you avoid women at the supermarket, where they’re just going to bag your goddamn groceries, and then actively seek them out and talk to them online. Methinks you may not be acting as logically as you think you are.
Gasp! We have an internet badass on our hands!
If David comes back online and confirms you are sock, you will be banned.
Even if you are not a sock, chances are you will eventually commit a bannable offense.
We aren’t terribly afraid of you.
Not without probable cause, no. 4th Amendment and all that.
OMG THIS IS TOTALLY NEW INFORMATION THAT TOTALLY CANCELS OUT HIS EXPRESSLY STATED MOTIVE AND PLANS!
Nothing is wrong with that. What’s wrong is your belief that 3 billion people don’t like you, and basing this assumption on the fact that they happen to share a gender.
Well, there’s not much light in his rectum!
I’m getting the giggles over the unanimously supportive comments section in Roosh’s new article.
Newsflash, asshole: We don’t like you. Please do us all a favor and cut off contact with us, and go snivel somewhere we don’t have to hear you.
“You’re not my mom!” Which we actually agree with, so that works out just fine.
I’m not up on all the rules, but didn’t already do so when he called another commenter a b*tch?
I agree, you can shut people out of your life if you want to.
So, why are you still here? It would make sense if you fled the web site, instead of staying here accussing us of making you do things in your life — like associate with women. You want to be here and crow about shit. That’s your choice, isn’t it?
And no, we’re not like the MRA. If we were, we’d be on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s radar — like the MRA.
@treehugger
All I have to do is clear my browser and return.
You can’t stop me from exposing your fake concern for those shooting victims.
Davis:
Hey, you keep ducking my questions:
Prove it, Davis. Quote someone who bashed men and/or non-feminist women.
BTW, you ever gonna answer my question? Do you really think black women are worse than the KKK? Is that what you were trying to say? Do you really think that black women have done more damage than the KKK? Do you know how sexist and racist that is?
While your at it, also prove that our concern for the victims is fake.
Go on. I dare you.
Ohhhh. Faux threats to @treehugger being made by @Davis!
He’s a REAL BADASS. It’s obvious his social awkwardness stopped the ladiez, and not you know, his toxic personality.
David can see your IP address and location actually.
“I’m not up on all the rules, but didn’t already do so when he called another commenter a b*tch?”
**raises hand** Yes, that would be me. He also talked about guns, on thread discussing a young man who used guns (and a knife) to kill men and women.
@Davis is also clearly a COMPUTER GENIUS! He knows how to clear his browser history. WATCH OUT!
::typing through tears of laughter at this badass::
Feminism isn’t some sort of regime, dude, it’s people saying that women are people and deserve equal rights as people. By saying that you avoid women simply by virtue of being women, you’re saying that women can’t act as individuals and people in their own right. Even non feminist women. So, really, you’re like an MRA. Or a MGTOW, especially in the way that you don’t actually go anywhere.
And if I wanted to seep myself in misogynistic stupidity, I would go and engage them on their sites, but I would do better talking to my friend’s three month old baby. He’s probably cuter, and he’s certainly more fun.
…yeah, I’m only mad because morons like you derail a lot of the conversation to listen to themselves talk. You can say whatever you want until you get banned, but I’ve had more entertaining and in depth conversations with my dog. Has anyone’s pet done something funny today? My dog got scared by his own fart.
Skimmed the AVFM re the petition. Turns out, if it did reach the White House, the movement wouldn’t meet the legal definition of the word “terrorist” and they would have a giant, public laugh- which would more positive awareness to their cause.
Pardon the pun, but I’m feeling trigger happy on the posts tonight. I’m going to burn scented fucking candles and masturbate to take the edge off. And my cat is watching.
You’re Erin, right? I dunno. You’re familar, that’s for sure.
Anyway, this is total bullshit:
“While your at it, also prove that our concern for the victims is fake.”
That would be you.
@JJ
LOL
You got ether’d kid.
I don’t think any of the MRA groups that exist online could organize their way out of a wet paper bag, so terrorist is a bit of a stretch.
Most misogynists are like the vast majority of racists. Most misogynists aren’t posting all over AVFM, and most racists aren’t in the Klan. I want to attack the fundamental misogyny that exists throughout our entire culture and that allows extreme cases like Rodgers to go virtually unremarked upon until the guns come out, and that allows mainstream media to ignore his misogyny and allows other idiots to deny it, claim it was all “mental illness” and “access to guns”, and Not All Men anyway, wah. I don’t want to get sidetracked by terms like “terrorist” on top of all that. Having a scheme to attack a sorority house, even in explicit detail, doesn’t qualify as a terrorist plot. Getting fed by hateful MRA bastards in websites all over the internet isn’t being recruited into a terrorist group. Most people who are called terrorists barely meet that qualification, or don’t meet it at all, and I’m tired of hearing it bandied about by anyone. It has become meaningless.
Should MRAs maybe be considered hate groups and maybe be watched by law enforcement? I don’t know. I’m too big a fan of privacy to want to advocate for that. I also don’t think new gun laws will fix this problem, and in this instance this guy was getting state of the art help for “mental” issues and it still didn’t help, so I don’t know that advocating for mental health access is relevant to this situation. (It’s totally relevant to, you know, mental health, but that should be advocated for without someone having to shoot a bunch of people.)
And no, I don’t want the police to be able to sweep in to anyone’s house and just, what, cart them off willy nilly to a lunatic asylum? Is that what you’re claiming should happen, Davis? Because if so, we did that in this country once upon a time, and it was a death dealing nightmare to hundreds of thousands of people. There’s a reason we don’t have good mental health policy in America– when the law allowed for people to be committed against their will for just about anything, from being too Native or too black or too gay or too female or too whatever, IT WAS ABUSED, so badly, so horrifyingly, that we have never been able to figure out how to fix it.
I don’t think there’s any solution to any of these specific incidents. I think in a non-misogynistic society, this specific crime might not have happened, maybe, or if it was brewing someone would have spotted it sooner. Unfortunately this guy was just the tip of a massive internet iceberg full of men who hate women and, frankly, aren’t bothered at all that we might end up dead. If we had a non-misogynist society, at least he would have stood out.