Categories
entitlement evil sexy ladies friend zone misogyny nice guys rape culture

Check out my interview about the dreaded Friend Zone on Amanda Marcotte's Reality Check Podcast

Like video games, the friend zone is not real.
Like video games, the friend zone is not real.

If you missed my talk at Northwestern on the Friend Zone, and most of you did, I go over a lot of what I said in it in my interview with Amanda Marcotte here. My segment of the podcast starts about 8 minutes in. (The rest of the podcast is interesting, too.)

The one thing missing from the podcast that my talk had was … a gazillion terrible Friend Zone memes to illustrate all my points. So here are a couple of the ones I refer to in the interview.

if-you-spend-40and-hours-a-week-in-friend-zone_a

fzfPersonalityconsolationprize

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

426 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Oh hey, let’s try that.

Racnad, no. Nobody here wants to have this discussion with you. We are not interested in assisting you with your inquiries. We are not willing to soothe your hurt feelings. We do not wish to continue interacting with you at all, in any way. To be absolutely crystal clear – we would like you to go away and never return. If you continue along your current path you will be violating our clearly expressed wishes. So don’t do that. Go away instead.

Let’s see how you do with a “no” that direct.

racnad
racnad
6 years ago

Ally_S,

I apologize for assuming your were white.

Sparky, the Dr. Nerdlove link you sent linked to another page about Social Calibration:
http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2012/10/art-social-calibration/all/1/

This is an interesting topic that helps explain, among other things, why some people are more popular than others, and why some men feel they’re unfairly being called creepy. If you refer this link to men complaining about women not liking them it is much more helpful than just yelling “Don’t be creepy!” when they feel they’re behaving just like guys who are popular with women.

As for everyone else, it is apparent that thoughtful, on-topic discussion is not possible here. There was another commenter on the post about the Santa Barbara shooter who thoughtfully discussed role of mental illness in the shooters actions, and he was attacked for maligning those with mental conditions, when the only groups one is allowed to malign here are MRAs, PUAs, and anyone who challenges a consensus view here.

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

@racnad

Jesus fuck!!! You want a step-by-step hand holding? Fine!

Step 1: Ask X woman out, she says “I’m actually busy this week, maybe another time”

Step 2a: If you’ve just met the woman say “No problem, have a good one.” AND WALK THE FUCK AWAY. If she wants to see you she’ll give you her number or suggest an alternate day or something. If she lets you walk away, she has no interest in you, MOVE THE FUCK ON.

Step 2b: If she’s a friend/acquaintance say “Cool. Let me know when you’re free and we’ll do something.” then BACK THE FUCK OFF AND NEVER MENTION IT AGAIN. If she’s interested in a date she’ll make plans with you when she’s free. If she doesn’t make plans with you then she just wants to be friends, in which case you MOVE THE FUCK ON.

There you go. Hand held. Now please leave us the fuck alone.

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

whoops, did not see cassandrakitty’s post

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

But guys, the problem isn’t that he barged in here and made our mocking misogyny site all about his social needs!

The problem is that we’re not being CIVIL to him about it! If we just POLITELY, FIRMLY asked him to leave, he totally would!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

@ Shadow

Hey, I didn’t say anything about not venting your annoyance at Captain Selfish. Vent away! He may feel that this is unfair, but I refer him back to the fact that multiple people have asked him very clearly to go away and point out that he’s ethically obligated to accept their rejection even if he doesn’t like the fact that we’re embracing rather than rejecting other men. Women, they get to have preferences about which men they want to talk to!

Marie
Marie
6 years ago

@shiraz

Yeah, wouldn’t the banhammer be the ultimate “hard no” ? According to him, he would totally respect that. Yeah, that’s all he wants guys, is total honesty!

Hey, that means he shouldn’t sock later on! *crosses fingers*

@Ally

(I’m sorry if that rant was too scary/angry/whatever. I’m so sick of men like racnad. I’m so fucking sick of them.)

No, it wasn’t too angry, don’t worry. And you did put a content note in front of it. Jedi hugs from me, if you want them.

@racnad

I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences with men, but they have nothing to do with the point I was trying to make, nor do they justify stereotyping all men this way

You little pissbaby. Ally just told you about her bad experiences and all you can go is BUT and NOT ALL MEN.

So let me cry you a fucking river that you don’t like men being stereotyped, when many women are afraid men will kill them.

You have the perspective of a turnip.

If you talked about African Americans like that, people would be looking for your white hooded sheets.

History, motherfucker. African Americans havebeen(and still are) oppressed and still experience racism, police brutality, discrimination.

Men do not suffer similar things for being male.

And your cascade profanity at the end of your long non-sequitor post only proves your have nothing intelligent to say.

If you think profanity means people have nothing intelligent to say, it only confirms 1) you aren’t reading or 2) you’re a tone policing jackass.

@ally

Is that all you’re going to say? Seriously?

WEll, it’d either be that, or our notoriously dense troll finally getting a point…

@cassandra

Can he be banned for the comment about whether or not the women who Roger murdered gave a direct enough no? That was way over the damn line, imo.

I’d second the banhammer.

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

@Cassandra

True, but the fuck that I addressed him after your post clearly turns your hard No into a soft, ambiguous, Sophie’s choice No.

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

*fact, not fuck lollll

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

We keep telling him, in no uncertain terms, that we are not his mommy/shrink/social skills teacher, and yet he still keeps coming back.

I don’t think he respects nos, guys. Maybe we did that thing where we were too loud and made him uncomfortable?

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Rancid:

It looks like all we have left is ad hominem attacks and profanity. Aren’t you all so proud.

You need to learn what the fuck an as hominem attack is, you little skidmark. Fuck right the fuck off, jackass.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Hmm, let’s try this.

Go away, rancid. I say this in a sweet, soothing, very feminine tone of voice. You don’t have to go home but you can’t stay here.

Ally S
6 years ago

Oh, dear sweet racnad. It would be absolutely delightful if you had the courtesy and kindness to quietly and softly leave. One too many women here have found your unfortunate words most objectionable, and it would be polite for you to heed their words and refrain from commenting further until you can grace us with a presence that does not apologize for entitled, abusive men who hate women. So please, if you have it in your tender heart to listen to us, leave.

/end of vomit-inducing over-the-top request for trollboy to get the fuck out of here

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Maybe if we wrote it in rose petals and had a fleet of kittens deliver it?

Nah, then he’d just whine that we weren’t being direct enough.

Ledasmom
Ledasmom
6 years ago

Nah. He doesn’t deserve a fleet of kittens. I think it would take a long time for a fleet of kittens to do anything, anyway. Three of them would be chasing each other, and one would be chasing its tail, and at least one would be reducing the message to something resembling lace, and then they would all fall asleep in a kitten heap.
Wouldn’t it be soothing to fall gently asleep under a blanket of kittens? Until they woke up, that is.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

racnad:

NO. GO AWAY. WE DO NOT WANT TO TALK TO YOU.

Is that clear enough for you?

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

emilygoddess:

People tried touching on it. Racnad moved the goalposts, quelle surprise.

I know. I was trying to work it back in to my last post, but I was getting way too wordy as it was and with all bullshit from racnad and the Santa Barnara shootings I just lost my train of thought there.

The point being, of course, that women are not being “unclear” when they use “soft no’s,” because the “no” is clearly heard, men jut choose to ignore it. So it doesn’t matter whether a woman uses a “soft no” or a “direct no,” the end result is that she is saying “no.” And some men react violently to “no” no matter how it is phrased, so yes, women are justified in fearing rejecting men.

Suggesting that women just need to know how to reject men in the right way is just pure victim-blaming assholery.

grumpycatisagirl
grumpycatisagirl
6 years ago

Remind you of anything we’ve been saying on this thread? And how it’s been falling on the most willfully dear ears imaginable?

http://time.com/114043/yesallwomen-hashtag-santa-barbara-shooting/

Ledasmom
Ledasmom
6 years ago

One is reminded of the epigram on Caroline of Brunswick, George IV of England’s queen; though she seems not to have done much to deserve it, it seems apt for our racnad:
“Most gracious queen, we thee implore
To go away and sin no more;
Or, if that effort be too great,
To go away at any rate.”

Or, as Dan Hicks put it:
“How can I miss you if you won’t go away?”

pecunium
6 years ago

Oh, I’m crushed. racnad has decided I’m not so absent of hostility. He doesn’t even make a show of replying to me anymore. I’m just one more person who doesn’t “like to be challenged” and whom he claims has nothing more than profanity to offer.

Of course he lies about how I said what he pretends I didn’t say.

racnad, no. I don’t want to see you anymore, unless it’s to apologise for blaming victims, putting all the burdens of asshole’s behavior on women, trying to make them responsible for men’s manners; and education, being rude to everyone, being even ruder than that to Ally, ignoring women’s experiences; while imputing that your ignorances are dispositive fact, and being a general douchnozzle.

For that, before you took your final leave I would be willing to suffer your miserable presence.

But only for that. For all other things, NO, I don’t want to see you, nor hear of you, nor in any other way be made aware of you; be you living or dead.

Was that direct enough for you?

Or did I miss something in the “Magical racnad Formula of Harrasshole Banishing”?

Ally S
6 years ago

Oh nice, he really didn’t even try to address anything else I said. Other than the apology, which to be fair is appreciated.

But this:

If you refer this link to men complaining about women not liking them it is much more helpful than just yelling “Don’t be creepy!” when they feel they’re behaving just like guys who are popular with women.

Maaaajor side-eye at the vagueness of that phrase. Virtually all men know what it means to be creepy and how to avoid being creepy. It’s not that hard. So yes, I will continue to yell that.

Ally S
6 years ago

As for everyone else, it is apparent that thoughtful, on-topic discussion is not possible here.

Lol, that’s rich.

There was another commenter on the post about the Santa Barbara shooter who thoughtfully discussed role of mental illness in the shooters actions, and he was attacked for maligning those with mental conditions, when the only groups one is allowed to malign here are MRAs, PUAs, and anyone who challenges a consensus view here.

Yeah, because maligning terrible human beings like MRAs is exactly like maligning people with mental disabilities. Do you ever proofread your comments for absurdity?

pecunium
6 years ago

There was another commenter on the post about the Santa Barbara shooter who thoughtfully discussed role of mental illness in the shooters actions

So much fail. In keeping with the steady stream of fail about your own writing though, so it’s really not surprising.

What that person did was say, ‘it’s not that he hated women, it’s that he was crazy; and crazy isn’t to blame”.

Which is wrong on a lot of levels.

1: We don’t have any way to know if whossisname had any mental illness.
1a: Even if he were mentally ill, mental illness doesn’t cause the sorts of reaction he had to women not worshipping him.

2: Absent any evidence, the effect of moving the murderer into the category of “mentally ill” is a convenient means to remove his hatred of women from the context of his society.
2a: Which means we can continue to pretend we don’t have a society which has an ingrained disdain, and dislike, of women who act as if they were real people, entitled to being treated as any other person (i.e. men).

But, since your entire raison d’etre is to say women owe men things, I can see why you want to move a guy who killed women because they didn’t give him the things he thought they owed him into a different category, one of “not like us”.

Because your demand that women “reach out” to men who are being assholes, your frustration that they won’t “work to see to it fewer men are frustrated” is only different in degree, not kind, from the killer.

You won’t admit it (and I see why you don’t want to) but you are much like him.

Which is why we don’t want you around. You, by spouting the bullshit we’ve been refuting, give men like him excuses for their hate, and rationalisations for their crimes; such as his act of mass murder.

You do actually support him in email.

Asshole.

racnad
racnad
6 years ago

Pecunium,

For someone who doesn’t want to see me, nor hear of me, nor in any other way be made aware of me; be I living or dead, you sure put a lot of effort into writing messages designed to provoke me to respond.

I believe this is the first time on the Internet I’ve seen the trolls get trolled.

pecunium
6 years ago

Dude, you don’t English very well do you.

It was rhetorical flourish.

here’s the thing… you said you needed an unequivocal no.

Lot’s of people gave it to you. You ignored it.

Why? Because you (as already admitted) don’t take no for an answer. When you knew a woman was saying no obliquely, you pressed on her, to make force her to be less oblique; so you could make her uncomfortable.

So I mocked you (which didn’t really take much effort). You don’t like being mocked (you also don’t like responding to arguments, facing the meaning of the words you’ve used, listening to women, respecting boundaries, etc).

If you’d been being honest in wanting an open declaration of, “get the fuck out of here, you tosser”, you’ve have left. But you don’t, because you think you deserve to have the world on your terms. So the barbed sentence was there to goad you, to make it plain you don’t respect people’s boundaries.

You (again) made it plain.

I’m not writing for you. You are a lost cause. I’m writing because other people read this forum, and silence equals assent and it’s not actually work to rebut the drivel you write (my little sister is 15, she is a better logician than you are).

I do it because putting morons in their place pleases me.

So dance boyo, dance.

Warper
Warper
5 years ago

Okay guys what’s up? This is Warper. I know this entry is kinda old and I know it is possible won’t get replied to.

You make a lot of valid points guys and girls. But I feel some comments here were biased too. I agree for example that Patriarchy’s remmants are in fact screwing men over and some men blame these elements on women (for example society expecting men to ask women out) and we should recognize it. At the same time there are some legit problems.

I have seen some comments implying men shouldn’t even ask women out and just wait for a woman to ask them out, even if it means that will never happen.

And that saying a polite no is not necessary and saying a rude no even if a guy approached you nicely without ill will is acceptable.

Now I find these views unreasonable and I want to know what do you think? I am not here to fight, I am here to understand. I hope we can get along. If you reply please be polite as I am being to you, have a good night.

1 7 8 9