Check out my interview about the dreaded Friend Zone on Amanda Marcotte’s Reality Check Podcast

Like video games, the friend zone is not real.

Like video games, the friend zone is not real.

If you missed my talk at Northwestern on the Friend Zone, and most of you did, I go over a lot of what I said in it in my interview with Amanda Marcotte here. My segment of the podcast starts about 8 minutes in. (The rest of the podcast is interesting, too.)

The one thing missing from the podcast that my talk had was … a gazillion terrible Friend Zone memes to illustrate all my points. So here are a couple of the ones I refer to in the interview.



About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on April 29, 2014, in entitlement, evil sexy ladies, friend zone, misogyny, nice guys, rape culture and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 426 Comments.

  1. Oh nice, he really didn’t even try to address anything else I said. Other than the apology, which to be fair is appreciated.

    But this:

    If you refer this link to men complaining about women not liking them it is much more helpful than just yelling “Don’t be creepy!” when they feel they’re behaving just like guys who are popular with women.

    Maaaajor side-eye at the vagueness of that phrase. Virtually all men know what it means to be creepy and how to avoid being creepy. It’s not that hard. So yes, I will continue to yell that.

  2. As for everyone else, it is apparent that thoughtful, on-topic discussion is not possible here.

    Lol, that’s rich.

    There was another commenter on the post about the Santa Barbara shooter who thoughtfully discussed role of mental illness in the shooters actions, and he was attacked for maligning those with mental conditions, when the only groups one is allowed to malign here are MRAs, PUAs, and anyone who challenges a consensus view here.

    Yeah, because maligning terrible human beings like MRAs is exactly like maligning people with mental disabilities. Do you ever proofread your comments for absurdity?

  3. There was another commenter on the post about the Santa Barbara shooter who thoughtfully discussed role of mental illness in the shooters actions

    So much fail. In keeping with the steady stream of fail about your own writing though, so it’s really not surprising.

    What that person did was say, ‘it’s not that he hated women, it’s that he was crazy; and crazy isn’t to blame”.

    Which is wrong on a lot of levels.

    1: We don’t have any way to know if whossisname had any mental illness.
    1a: Even if he were mentally ill, mental illness doesn’t cause the sorts of reaction he had to women not worshipping him.

    2: Absent any evidence, the effect of moving the murderer into the category of “mentally ill” is a convenient means to remove his hatred of women from the context of his society.
    2a: Which means we can continue to pretend we don’t have a society which has an ingrained disdain, and dislike, of women who act as if they were real people, entitled to being treated as any other person (i.e. men).

    But, since your entire raison d’etre is to say women owe men things, I can see why you want to move a guy who killed women because they didn’t give him the things he thought they owed him into a different category, one of “not like us”.

    Because your demand that women “reach out” to men who are being assholes, your frustration that they won’t “work to see to it fewer men are frustrated” is only different in degree, not kind, from the killer.

    You won’t admit it (and I see why you don’t want to) but you are much like him.

    Which is why we don’t want you around. You, by spouting the bullshit we’ve been refuting, give men like him excuses for their hate, and rationalisations for their crimes; such as his act of mass murder.

    You do actually support him in email.


  4. Pecunium,

    For someone who doesn’t want to see me, nor hear of me, nor in any other way be made aware of me; be I living or dead, you sure put a lot of effort into writing messages designed to provoke me to respond.

    I believe this is the first time on the Internet I’ve seen the trolls get trolled.

  5. Dude, you don’t English very well do you.

    It was rhetorical flourish.

    here’s the thing… you said you needed an unequivocal no.

    Lot’s of people gave it to you. You ignored it.

    Why? Because you (as already admitted) don’t take no for an answer. When you knew a woman was saying no obliquely, you pressed on her, to make force her to be less oblique; so you could make her uncomfortable.

    So I mocked you (which didn’t really take much effort). You don’t like being mocked (you also don’t like responding to arguments, facing the meaning of the words you’ve used, listening to women, respecting boundaries, etc).

    If you’d been being honest in wanting an open declaration of, “get the fuck out of here, you tosser”, you’ve have left. But you don’t, because you think you deserve to have the world on your terms. So the barbed sentence was there to goad you, to make it plain you don’t respect people’s boundaries.

    You (again) made it plain.

    I’m not writing for you. You are a lost cause. I’m writing because other people read this forum, and silence equals assent and it’s not actually work to rebut the drivel you write (my little sister is 15, she is a better logician than you are).

    I do it because putting morons in their place pleases me.

    So dance boyo, dance.

  6. Okay guys what’s up? This is Warper. I know this entry is kinda old and I know it is possible won’t get replied to.

    You make a lot of valid points guys and girls. But I feel some comments here were biased too. I agree for example that Patriarchy’s remmants are in fact screwing men over and some men blame these elements on women (for example society expecting men to ask women out) and we should recognize it. At the same time there are some legit problems.

    I have seen some comments implying men shouldn’t even ask women out and just wait for a woman to ask them out, even if it means that will never happen.

    And that saying a polite no is not necessary and saying a rude no even if a guy approached you nicely without ill will is acceptable.

    Now I find these views unreasonable and I want to know what do you think? I am not here to fight, I am here to understand. I hope we can get along. If you reply please be polite as I am being to you, have a good night.

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