About these ads

After a feminist activist at Queen’s University reports being attacked, possibly by an MRA, the king of “fuck their shit up” responds with angry denial

Paul Elam: Anger is "pulsing through my veins like molten lava" at the very notion that MRAs are violent.

Paul Elam: Anger is “pulsing through my veins like molten lava.”

A student at Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario, says she was attacked and beaten by a strange man after receiving threatening messages about her opposition to a Men’s Rights group on campus. On Thursday, Danielle d’Entremont posted a picture of her bruised face to Facebook along with this explanation:

Just walked out of my house and got attacked by a stranger. I was punched in the face multiple times and lost half my tooth. This was after a few threatening emails regarding my support for feminist activities on campus. I can’t say for sure if the two are connected, however the attacker was a male who knew my name.

The campus Men’s Issues Awareness Society (MIAS) – the group d’Entremont has been fighting – has condemned the attack, as has the Canadian Association for Equality (CAFE), which co-sponsored a talk the MIAS put on Thursday. The police are investigating.

Right now, this is pretty much all we know about the story. Not that it this has stopped MRAs from offering their very fervent opinions on the matter.

Before we get to them, here are a few of my own:

If it turns out that the attacker is, as seems likely, a Men’s Rights activist – or some freelance misogynist vaguely associated with that milieu – it will not exactly be a surprise. Feminist activists who challenge Men’s Rights activists – or indeed challenge sexism in any sufficiently public manner – often find themselves the recipients of angry, abusive and threatening messages, sometimes numbering in the hundreds.

While most prominent MRAs are smart enough to avoid making specific threats of physical violence in public, their “activist” campaigns often target individual women, often college students and individual activists rather than women with any real power in society, almost certainly because those with less power are easier to intimidate.

And for all their talk of being the “civil rights movement” of the 21st century, Men’s Rights activists rely on rhetoric steeped in violence and hatred. It wasn’t Martin Luther King who declared of his opponents that “the thought of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.” It was Paul Elam of A Voice for Men, probably the most influential Men’s Rights activist on the scene right now.

I don’t know who attacked d’Entremont. But given the number of threats being made towards feminist activists on a daily basis, it is inevitable that women (and perhaps some men) who’ve publicly opposed the Men’s Rights movement will be the targets of real violence. Inevitable.

And much of the responsibility for this violence will rest with Elam and other Men’s Rights leaders who have deliberately stoked the anger and hatred of their followers and directed much of it at individual female scapegoats. If your favorite slogan is “Fuck Their Shit Up” you can’t pretend you’re an innocent angel when someone inspired by your words actually does Fuck Someone’s Shit Up.

And it doesn’t help when MRAs like Elam try to make violence against women into a kind of joke. Here, at left, is a screenshot from a notorious post by Elam promoting his supposedly “satirical” notion of turning Domestic Violence Awareness Month into Bash a Violent Bitch Month; yes, that picture ran, with that caption, on Elam’s original post. At right, the picture of herself that d’Entremont posted to her Facebook page.

[TRIGGER WARNING for images of violence against women. Post continues after picture.]

.

.

.

Click on image for larger version.

Click on image for larger version.

Of course, this isn’t how Elam and his friends see the issue. The moment the story of the attack broke, a special A Voice for Men Flying Squad of commenters descended upon the website of the student newspaper of Queens University to set forth all the reasons they thought d’Entremont was a lying liar. Attila Vinczer, AVFM’s offical “Activism Director,” was especially active:

QUattilaQUattila2QUasttila3

Yeah, Attila, I’m pretty sure criminal investigations don’t work like that.

Meanwhile, AVFM Contributing Editor Karen “Girl Writes What” Straughan attempted to minimize d’Entremont’s injuries in a rather inventive way:

QUkarenOther commenters (evidently not affiliated with AVFM) offered variations on “she had it coming to her.”

QUfrustrationQUsasha(These aren’t consecutive comments; they’re separate image files smushed together. I edited out some less interesting bits of the second one.)

But it was Elam himself who launched the most vociferous attack on d’Entremont; indeed, in a long and rage-filled post titled “A whiff of bullshit at Queen’s University,” he declared that the very notion that MRAs might pose a threat to feminist activists to be a “scummy, Futrellian fantasy fiction spin game.”

Huh. I’m pretty sure I didn’t make up the hundreds of abusive and/or threatening messages that a certain red-haired feminist activist received for the crime of yelling at a couple of A Voice for Men dudes on camera once. Or those received by Rebecca Watson for the crime of suggesting that maybe dudes shouldn’t hit on gals who are riding a hotel elevator alone at 4 AM. Or those received by any of countless other women who have found themselves labeled enemy-of-the-week by MRAs, antifeminists, and other misogynistic creeps online.

Oh, and there was that creepy threatening phone message I got at 1:38 AM one December from one of AVFM’s own activists who was too dumb to hide his own identity properly.

But in any case, Elam for some reason has decided that the best way to convince the world that MRAs are reasonable people who would never resort to violence is to declare that he is overcome by his own anger. No, really:

[N]ow I am angry. I am 100% completely, undeniably pissed off bordering on rage. It won’t last, but for the moment it is pulsing through my veins like molten lava.

And what makes him angry? The very thought that someone might assume that a woman who was an active opponent of an Men’s Rights organization might have been targeted because of her activism — and assaulted by an MRA who, like Elam, might have had anger “pulsing through [his] veins like molten lava.”

There’s really not much more to Elam’s post than that. He makes a joke about d’Entremont trolling for “likes” on Facebook for the picture of her beaten face. He demands “proof” and predicts there will be none:

There will never be any evidence that she was attacked by an MHRA. They will probably not catch her supposed “attacker,” and the incident will wind up unresolved because there is no evidence to make a case against anyone, or at the very least not against any MHRA. The story will still get major traction with feminist ideologues, though, who will use it to mischaracterize MHRAs as violent so they can continue to attack the formation of new men’s issues groups.

And then he starts his rant in earnest:

I want to hear a police official say they have reason to believe it was men’s activists, and then share the identity of the person of interest with the public. I want them to make inquiries to this website to look for leads. With all the victim posturing over the years from feminists about AVFM, I have never heard from a single police official. Not once.

I want to know for sure that this woman, who posts this shit to her Facebook page but does not want to be identified, and her friend, who also does not want to be identified, are not both liars.

I want to see, with all the wolf crying that feminists have done about MHRAs, one tiny, even microscopic shred of fucking proof of anything they say.

I want to know if they are more credible than the zombie apocalypse. Rather I should say I would like to see them prove they are for a change.

And if my hunch, check that, experience, is right, and there are lies involved in this case, I want to see those responsible go to jail just as much as I want to see her attacker, if he actually exists, do the same.

Huh. That’s a lot of demands, Paul. I’m pretty sure the police have more pressing priorities in their investigation than mollifying the narcissistic rage of an internet ranter.

But I think we can see what is happening here: Unless the police are able to quickly identify and arrest a man who is clearly associated with a Men’s Rights group for this crime, and unless he is quickly convicted of this crime, MRAs – led by Elam and his followers – are going to declare d’Entremont a “false accuser” if not an outright hoaxer, and target her for further harassment and abuse. All while loudly proclaiming that they are the real victims here. (Never mind that they never apply even a fraction of such skepticism towards the tall tales of feminist oppression told by serial fabricators like John Hembling.)

Elam ends his post with these inspiring words:

Please note: AVfM is in the middle of its Spring Fundraiser. Please help us continue to spread the message. Click here to contribute.

Because A Voice for Men LLC, after all, is a business – albeit one that’s apparently forbidden from conducting business in the state of Texas – and its business is hate.

EDITED TO ADD: John Hembling — AVFM’s “Director, Public Policy” and “Editor at Large” — has weighed in with his own take on the attack, which he has puzzlingly titled “Don’t Bash a Violent Bitch,” helpfully illustrated with a picture of a nerdy fellow brandishing a fist. (Classy!) In it he loudly proclaims to be shocked — shocked! — that anyone could imagine any MRA could be responsible for such a crime, which is totally opposed to everything that the peace-loving Men’s Human Rights Movement stands for.

Then he goes on to argue that “Slugger d’Entremont” (!?) is an “asshole” who probably brought this upon herself by being such an asshole:

I expect that whoever bashed Danielle d’Entremont in the face is somebody she knows, who has been dealing with her for years. Maybe her attempt to silence Professor Fiamengo was what did it, maybe it was something else. The timing of the incident, thus far, does not indicate a connection.

Really? The attack happened the night before Fiamengo’s lecture.

An individual attempting to censor and silence somebody speaking on human rights concerns of any group, men or otherwise, is likely an individual that’s an asshole with a past.

How exactly she is a “violent bitch” he never exactly explains. Perhaps someone else wrote the headline. It’s not like there’s a shortage of “editors” at AVFM eager to blame the victim of this particular crime.

About these ads

Posted on March 28, 2014, in a new woman to hate, a voice for men, a woman is always to blame, advocacy of violence, antifeminism, entitled babies, evil women, excusing abuse, FemRAs, GirlWritesWhat, harassment, hypocrisy, mantrum, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, narcissism, not-quite-explicit threats, not-quite-plausible deniability, paul elam, playing the victim, things that aren't satire, threats and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 413 Comments.

  1. Remember to aim for the throat and eyes.

  2. @samantha

    Hugs back, Ally. And how are you?

    [Content note: suicide]
    I’m doing okay-ish. I’m just kind of going through the motions these days, with nothing really changing (for better and for worse). I’ve been having a lot of suicidal thoughts lately for various reasons (most of them tied to self-hatred – no matter what I just go back to thinking about myself as the Most Worthless Person Ever Who Deserves Nothing). Fortunately I’ve also been able to cope better so those thoughts are never enough to push me to do anything drastic and dangerous (like actually attempting suicide).

  3. Ally, just hold on to the good stuff that’s happening with your therapist, and don’t forget to tell her about the bad stuff. It’s early days, you’ll get away from this thought cycle eventually.

    (This advice brought to you by DUH.com)

  4. You know what? If they find some law that says that those classes cannot be held for women-only, women should pool their resources and do it anyway…without the boys.

    Yuppers. And anyway, the whole point of the exercise is that it’s self-defence for women only. It’s specifically geared at empowering women to get away not only from stranger rape, but acquaintance and domestic violence, too. For the simple statistical fact that women are far more likely to be raped by a man than another woman, and that men are far more likely to rape than woman are. And because a lot of women attending those classes have been assaulted before, and would rather not have to deal with a person who might look like the one who attacked them. So it’s kind of a “duh” that we would want women-only classes in how to defend ourselves, secure in the knowledge that no man was being taught this method and therefore no man could get around it. Otherwise, we’d just go take karate or tae kwon do or jiu-jitsu with the guys — and risk being beaten at it by the guys!

    Of course the MRAs are on the comment section already with their prepared talking points. Women are statistically the safest demographic! Cool story bros.

    There just isn’t enough facepalm to go ’round, is there? What we need now is a site full of ready-made, fact-heavy debunkers for all that. I think I saw one the other day, but I’ma have to dig for it…ah, here it is. (And wouldn’t you know, as soon as I googled for it, I had to pass half a dozen other links, “debunking” this! Seems it’s struck a manly-mannish nerve, there…)

  5. @trans_commie: All the hugs, and remember to think about the positives, like kittehs said.

    Hugs for everyone else in the thread, too, because I read it and it’s heavy.

  6. There was a women-and-trans folks self-defense class back in Boston, but I never ended up going, because I was in such a frail state that I wasn’t sure I could handle the emotional impact of faked rape scenes. I still kind of regret that, since now I can’t really go to a class like that without feeling like I’m fucking shit up with my gender.

    Thankfully, so far the altercations I’ve been in, I’ve been able to beat through sheer force of personality and voice. I’m not sure I’d be able to fight someone off physically, even WITH the right training.

  7. @LBT

    [CN: self-hatred, fat-shaming, abuse]

    I completely understand why you wouldn’t want to take self-defense classes for emotional reasons. It’s a lot to handle. I used to take karate/TKD classes when I was 13-14. I learned some very valuable techniques, such as breaking someone’s stranglehold via an upward motion of one’s arms between the other person’s arms.

    But I had to stop taking the classes, though for a different reason. While the first teacher I had was very kind, the second teacher was abusive, and his class was full of kids at least 4 years younger than me. He made hurtful, demeaning remarks about my body and my lack of muscular flexibility and strength. He made me feel pathetic and worthless, and on the extra training sessions he made me go through he made it very clear how much he thought I was pathetic. Sometimes he even hit me on my thighs and backside in order to humiliate me, and to this day I shudder and feel sick when I think of him doing that to me. Part of me wants to call that sexual assault, but I feel like I don’t deserve to use that label (jerkbrain may be at it again).

    On top of that, I was bullied and fat-shamed by not only my peers, but also the teacher. That humiliation I endured has made me completely avoid martial arts these days. It didn’t help that my dad (him again) pushed me into these karate classes to make me lose weight. I love how an opportunity to empower myself and learn how to defend myself and others turned into a life event that did nothing but put a massive dent in my self-esteem.

  8. Sometimes he even hit me on my thighs and backside in order to humiliate me, and to this day I shudder and feel sick when I think of him doing that to me. Part of me wants to call that sexual assault, but I feel like I don’t deserve to use that label (jerkbrain may be at it again).

    It sounds close enough to me; I would call it that, myself. No one has any business touching or hitting a kid there (or indeed hitting them anywhere). I am so sorry that happened to you, Ally…that shit sucks.

  9. Fortunately I’ve also been able to cope better so those thoughts are never enough to push me to do anything drastic and dangerous (like actually attempting suicide).

    Hang in there, Ally. Reaching the point in therapy where those thoughts can be easily put into the background and no longer threaten to overwhelm one can take time. Today, you will not commit any sad acts. Tomorrow will take care of itself.

    In times of despair, I learned that this moment is all I really have so worrying about what will happen or what I will or will not do later is a burden that I do not need. When things get hairy I remind myself that this, too, shall pass. And it does. So now is all you really ever need to deal with.

    I am happy that you are here, now, in the world.

    And from another of your posts:

    When we reduce the cause of rape to sexual motivations only, we enable rapists who hide behind a discourse of sexuality that constructs sex as synonymous with power.

    Wow, Ally. That was great…a cogent and passionate statement. Me like, yes me do.

  10. @trans commie, Sorry I don’t have any advice. I’m sorry you were bullied. Hugs if you want them.

  11. Regarding primogeniture – James II had had two daughters before James Jr was born. The whole forced abdication / Glorious Revolution thing was because the son was going to be the next king. Of course, the difficulty that family had with breeding in captivity only exacerbated the problem. Fun fact – if James II had converted to Anglicanism and raised his son in that church, James III would have reigned from 1701 to 1766. No Hanoverians.

  12. I don’t know if this has been posted before but I got curious about Erin Pizzy and found this article on her. Now, this article has ALL THE TRIGGER WARNINGS FOR ABUSE; Erin Pizzy’s triggering account of the abuse she suffered at the hands of both parents.

    TL;DR: Pizzy’s mother was abusive, and so was her dad, but she’s still mad as hell at her mom for being abusive, and apparently busy taking it out on other women. Choice quote;

    “Thirty years later, when feminism exploded onto the scene, I was often mistaken for a supporter of the movement. But I have never been a feminist, because, having experienced my mother’s violence, I always knew that women can be as vicious and irresponsible as men”

    I don’t know whether to feel sorry for her or to feel mad at her. If I squint hard enough I can see where she’s coming from; obviously women can be just as abusive as men! Hell, in 2 out of the 3 abusive relationships that Ive been personally close to it’s been the woman who was the abuser. HOWEVER all the shit that she says is just so….off. Another choice bit;

    “Feminism, I realised, was a lie. Women and men are both capable of extraordinary cruelty. Indeed, the only thing a child really needs – two biological parents under one roof – was being undermined by the very ideology which claimed to speak up for women’s rights.

    This country is now on the brink of serious moral collapse. We must stop demonising men and start healing the rift that feminism has created between men and women.

    Harriet Harman’s insidious and manipulative philosophy that women are always victims and men always oppressors can only continue this unspeakable cycle of violence. And it’s our children who will suffer.”

    Yes, a child really only needs two abusers….er I mean parents, under one roof. Worked out so well for her. And the shit that she’s said elsewhere about men being “potential rapists” is also stupid. Anyone who knows anything about trust realizes that it’s just as irrational to use trust as a starting point as it is to use distrust as a starting point.

    O/T but since we’re talking about women’s self-defense; I’m thinking of getting my two older daughters, aged 5 and 9, into a self-defense course. Wen-do doesn’t take girls until they’re 10, probably because of the scenarios and whatnot, is there any other suggestions? Also looking for good suggestions on books for young girls.

  13. Didn’t feminists do this before where that woman on a campus start sending herself hate messages and the claimed she had been assaulted and it was … Well all her and she was thrown out of the university and was taken to court for it. I highly expect this is another false accusation. There would of been no reason for anyone to attack her.

  14. Oh by the way the reason the MRA were complaining about the self defence class was because it is free to girls and women and the class was only being run for girls and women. Considering you are primarily feminists on this site and therefore believe men and women are exactly the same how can you not see the run for and free only for one gender as discrimination ?

  15. Regarding primogeniture – James II had had two daughters before James Jr was born. The whole forced abdication / Glorious Revolution thing was because the son was going to be the next king. Of course, the difficulty that family had with breeding in captivity only exacerbated the problem. Fun fact – if James II had converted to Anglicanism and raised his son in that church, James III would have reigned from 1701 to 1766. No Hanoverians.

    Reconverted, you mean – he was born and raised Anglican and only converted as an adult, after his first wife, Anne Hyde had. Another what if – if their sons had survived, the younger James wouldn’t have been heir, and the question of a Catholic monarch wouldn’t have arisen. (The older boys would certainly have had to stay Anglican, as Mary and Anne did: iirc Charles II made that clear when James converted.)

    You know the thing that really pisses me of with the birth of James III? He wasn’t James II and Mary of Modena’s first child, there was no huge gap and “suspicious” pregnancy. She had stlllbirths and miscarriages – hardly unusual. Never mind the physical impossibility of putting a baby into a warming-pan to smuggle it into a bed, or the idiocy of claiming a very public birth could be faked like that. Hell, it was so public that Mary asked James to use his sleeve and wig to shield her face so she didn’t have to see all the men watching her give birth. Breeding in captivity is a very good description of what royalty endured.

    That nasty Protestant propaganda is a great example of history being written by the winners.

  16. @Unimaginative

    I was molested when I was 7 or 8, and even though I know in my head that it was Bad Enough, I still have this running bullshit idea that it Wasn’t That Bad, because so many other people have had it worse. To this day, decades later, I very rarely speak about it because the outpouring of support I get makes me very uncomfortable. Which is fucked up all on its own.

    Same here. I spent lots of time inventing reasons why it wasn’t that bad, really. Fucked up indeed.

  17. Janet:

    Didn’t feminists do this before where that woman on a campus start sending herself hate messages and the claimed she had been assaulted and it was … Well all her and she was thrown out of the university and was taken to court for it. I highly expect this is another false accusation. There would of been no reason for anyone to attack her.

    Well, Janet, do you have any evidence that that’s what’s going on her? ‘Cause if you do, you should probably be going to the police with it, not posting random gossip on blogs.

    So, this one time this one woman sent hate messages to herself and claimed she was assaulted? There’s a whole site for stories like that: Snopes.com. But yes, your random story that might have happened somewhere means we can never believe any woman ever that she’s been assaulted – even when she has the injuries to prove it.

    (But Schrodinger’s rapist is rank misandry – just because some men rape, that doesn’t mean that all men do and how dare women act the least bit uncertain or nervous around men!).

    Eh. Your trolling’s kindergarten-level, at best. Try harder, Janet.

  18. Janet’s run-on sentences are giving me vertigo.

  19. Hey Janet, can you maybe drop a link to this feminist story you’re talking about, or would that cramp your run-on style?

    Better yet, just go back to AVfM and wave your pom-poms.

  20. Isn’t “Janet” another sockpuppet?

  21. Janet, this has already been explained upthread. Women are generally physically smaller and weaker than men. Self defense classes teach strategies to overcome that strength and escape an escape. Men don’t need self defense classes to protect them against women, because they are usually bigger. BTW, it’s not like anyone is stopping men from taking martial arts or boxing classes or carrying a gun in places where that is legal.

    MEZ, on a nicer note, suggestions for books for young girls! My favorites growing up were the Oz books. There are a lot of cool female protagonists like Dorothy, Ozma and Glinda. They’re a good introduction to fantasy too. They aren’t at all dark or scary so they’re appropriate for young kids.

  22. @Janet
    “Oh by the way the reason the MRA were complaining about the self defence class was because it is free to girls and women and the class was only being run for girls and women. Considering you are primarily feminists on this site and therefore believe men and women are exactly the same how can you not see the run for and free only for one gender as discrimination ?”

    I doubt that anyone has a problem with men receiving free self-defense courses. This particular course, however, is useless for men because it is specifically geared towards women, and in as explained by weirwoodtreehugger above, there’s usually a size/strength difference between men and women and a difference between what tactics are appropriate for each. Maybe the MRAs could hold free self-defense courses geared towards men?

    @weirwoodtreehugger, what are the Oz books? Do you mean like the Wizard of Oz? :) Thanks for the suggestion; I’ll pick them up for her in the library. :)

    On a related note, I just saw Frozen, and it was about what I was expecting. I had a few issues from it from a feminist perspective, but overall it was pretty good and gave me a platform to start discussing relationship red flags with her. Also a really catchy movie. :)

  23. Maybe the MRAs could hold free self-defense courses geared towards men?

    ::snerk:: Can you imagine how much FAIL that’d be?

  24. Yes. Wizard of Oz. There are 14 original L Frank Baum Oz books.

  25. Didn’t feminists do this before where that woman on a campus start sending herself hate messages and the claimed she had been assaulted and it was … Well all her and she was thrown out of the university and was taken to court for it. I highly expect this is another false accusation. There would of been no reason for anyone to attack her.

    CITATION NEEDED.

    Oh by the way the reason the MRA were complaining about the self defence class was because it is free to girls and women and the class was only being run for girls and women. Considering you are primarily feminists on this site and therefore believe men and women are exactly the same how can you not see the run for and free only for one gender as discrimination ?

    Again, CITATION NEEDED. Also, STRAW FEMINISM, since no one here believes that “men and women are exactly the same”. We have EYES, you know.

    BTW, here’s how a similar case in Canada panned out two decades or so ago. The menz rightzer’s lawsuit was dismissed as frivolous. Which, of course, it was.

    And which your trolling also is.

  26. Considering you are primarily feminists on this site and therefore believe men and women are exactly the same how can you not see the run for and free only for one gender as discrimination ?

    Considering that you seem to be a woman, how can you not see that women who have been abused or threatened with abuse by men might not be comfortable taking a class in self defence with men…who may, or may not, be there to find out who the women are?

    It has happened, Ms Janet.

  27. Janet’s run-on sentences are giving me vertigo.

    It is okay, grumpygatisagirl. Just breathe and repeat to yourself “Janet is a Troll…Trolls live under bridges and have no lives…Janet is a Troll.”

    There. All better now? I know I am. :):)

  28. Wow. Janet doesn’t even compare to Explore Nature. That’s SAD.

  29. “How does she know it was a man?” ….*head explodes*

  30. Considering you are primarily feminists on this site and therefore believe men and women are exactly the same

    No.

  31. Why do dumbasses keep assuming that believing the differences between individuals > differences between groups = everyone is the same? Seriously, we’re saying people are MORE DIFFERENT, not less! Eesh!

  32. Wow. Janet doesn’t even compare to Explore Nature. That’s SAD.

    Oh strewth, now that’s the pits! XD

  33. yumicake,
    That’s not cool.

  34. RE: yumicpcake

    No threats of violence. What do you think this place is, AVFM? Piss off and take your creepery with you.

  35. I’ve emailed theMaster about yumicpcake.

  36. Yumicpcake is banned for that comment. NO VIOLENT THREATS. I’m only sorry I wasn’t able to get to it sooner; I’ve been away from the internet and only just got the email about it.

  37. I also deleted the comment and edited out a quotation of it.

  38. *cheerfully awaits for some other troll to pop up claiming that this is proof feminists can’t tolerate a varying opinion because hivemind*

  39. @MEZ

    Good observations. And I think if Erin Pizzy had some truly legit arguments against feminism she’d take it up with another group instead of AVFM. I’ve notice the large number of skype’s she has had with Dean Esmay. I’m guessing those aren’t debates, but rather exposing what she doesn’t like about feminism else Dean wouldn’t keep giving her an audience.

    The same goes for Warren Farrell and, to some extent, Christina Sommers.

    If those three cared about females than they wouldn’t be taking their objections about feminism to such an anti-woman hate group. They would take their complaints to a PEACEFUL human rights organization with no history of undermining the safety of women.

  40. I have to say that’s for posting this and making people aware. I’m still questioning to myself the best way of fighting this garbage. The worst part to me is that though when you look at this no one I know would ever support it, but the tendrils of it… the noise seems to seeps into people. I know some totally reasonable men that have started to say stuff that’s come from these assholes because it’s so damn loud. Like they haven’t thought it out, have education about feminism really and hear something that “makes sense” if not actually examined. This is a horrible thing. Has anyone else experienced this? What do you do about it?

  41. @NightRainbow

    I have experienced something similar, unfortunately. Frankly, I don’t have the mental fortitude to call it out, so I usually just “pray” that they stop soon. If I had the guts to deal with it, though, I’d point out the dynamics of privilege here. In particular, it seems that the main factor behind men educated about feminism suddenly espousing MRA garbage is the validation of male privilege. A feminist education doesn’t mean much when those men are still, on some level, comfortable with their privilege.

    Even if that’s not how they recognize the situation, it makes sense. Perhaps, if you feel my interpretation is reasonable, you can point out something similar to them without being overly direct about it (as unfortunately a lot of men react defensively towards things like “You’re only agreeing with MRAs because of your male privilege”).

    Oh, and here’s your welcome package!

  42. Thanks! And a great point. I’ll see what I can do mulling it over.. like all things it’s complicated with the particular individual I’m thinking of as they have other have some disabilities and so in some ways legitimately is disempowered by the system around them, but they still do enjoy the privileges of being male (though I think he doesn’t see it!) I hadn’t thought about it in these terms, and it’s helping to feel less horrible about things, and gives me a basis to discuss it with him :) Also those penguins are fing hilarious!!

  43. One must always exercise caution in comparing axes of oppression, but there are certainly some commonalities among all axes. With that in mind, perhaps you can help highlight the male privilege that is clouding is mind by pointing out the similarities between the lack of awareness of male privilege and the lack of awareness of privilege that people without disabilities have. For instance, many people without mental disabilities often tell people with mental disabilities to just tighten their bootstraps, so to speak, and ignore their mental suffering. That has happened to me, as someone who has anxiety issues and depression.

  44. Yeah that’s a good way to start. May take more than one conversation but I feel it’s achievable :) Very good points you make.

  45. If Attila believes this to be a false allegation, how can he explain the chipped tooth? Did this girl break her own tooth in hopes of being believed? If so, she would be quite nutty. Furthermore, although it is true that Feminism has had many failures, I wouldn’t call it the greatest failure in human history. I wouldn’t put Feminism alongside slavery, Nazism, Wars, and Economic disasters; not by a long shot.

  46. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was an MRA. In fact I’d be disappointed if it wasn’t, just as wehuntedthemammoth & its supporters clearly would be, but for very different reasons.
    The censorious protesters who shut down Fiamengo’s talk are as mindless as the thug who assaulted d’Entremont. Whatever…both sides know that it’s all grist to the mill.

  47. emilygoddess

    Protesting: just as bad as punching someone in the face.

    I’m a little afraid to ask why Dolly would “be disappointed” if it wasn’t an MRA.

  48. The old “both sides” chestnut. Never heard that one before.

  49. The censorious protesters who shut down Fiamengo’s talk are as mindless as the thug who assaulted d’Entremont.

    You are correct: the protestors and the attacker were both quite mindful of their actions.

    When people do bad things, they likely know exactly what they’re doing. Of course, protesting isn’t actually a bad thing…

  50. I do not understand, what did “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” have to do with this attack? He was responding to a feminist article on Jezebel where women were sharing and celebrating stories of beating on the men in their lives just for the hell of it. Of course his article looks monstrous, even as a joke, if you take it out of context. But in context, there is nothing at all monstrous about responding to the actual celebration of violence with a satirical celebration of violence.

  51. emilygoddess - MOD

    Thank you, Billy, for this entirely new information.

  52. I’m going to take a sip of coffee every time an MRAss mentions Jezebel in defense of Paul Elam.
    I should be bouncing off the walls by lunch.

  53. kittehserf MOD

    Still probably safer than the usual drinking game. You’d be saying goodbye to your liver in no time.

  54. Billy, you really think the Jezebel Article was a “celebration of violence”?

    Really?

    It was way tasteless and gave me a good reason to avoid them, but it was truer satire than anything Elam’s ever published…

  55. … And by “satire” I mean, written with a blinking neon sign that says “sarcasm”.

    No one on the internet does Swift-like satire anymore. :(

  56. Seriously, why the hell has this Jezebel article become the new thing for MRAs, years after it was posted? Did someone hype it on one of their stupid sites or something?

  57. They’re still on about Dworkin and the SCUM Manifesto, so I doubt they’ll ever let the Jezebel article (which was highly criticized by many feminists) go.

  58. Also, I thought Jezebel was just some trashy gossip site? Not a feminist one? Am I confused?

  59. emilygoddess - MOD

    Seriously, why the hell has this Jezebel article become the new thing for MRAs, years after it was posted? Did someone hype it on one of their stupid sites or something?

    Much was made of Elam’s “satirical” response piece in the wake of The Conference, and that put them on the defensive, so maybe that’s how “but the Jezebel piece!” became a meme again?

    Also, I thought Jezebel was just some trashy gossip site? Not a feminist one? Am I confused?

    It’s pretty trashy and blatantly clickbait-y, but it’s easy pickings for people who want to “prove” that feminists are terrible. The fact that plenty of feminists have either never heard of it or find it distasteful is apparently not important.

  60. Just saying, dudes, if Elam doesn’t LINK to what he’s supposedly satirizing, and he’s such a shitty satirist that nobody can tell he’s not being serious, YOU MIGHT LOOK KINDA BAD.

  61. LBT: If you’re confused, I’m confused about the same thing. They only successfully clickbait me every once in a blue moon, though, so I don’t actually know…

  62. The obsession the MRAs have with Jezebel is pretty hilarious. They are very wrong in thinking that it represents the entirety of feminism. I say that as someone who reads and comments there. I look at it as a women’s magazine with a progressive/feminist slant. It’s fun to read (for me anyway) but serious feminism it isn’t.

    Ffs, it’s part of a corporate media group. That should be a clue right there.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 8,529 other followers

%d bloggers like this: