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Today in Straw Feminism: Why they chuckle at male suicide figures — explained!

Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, the regulars are getting worked up about imaginary feminists again. Well, I suppose that’s pretty much all they ever do. But these two have managed to get even more worked up about even more imaginary feminists than they usually do:

 

flying_downwardss 12 points 22 hours ago (18|6)  I'M SORRY FOR BEING BORN MALE, I'M SORRY!  Is that what the feminists and manginas want to hear?      permalink     source     save     give gold     hide child comments  [–]Maschalismos 7 points 18 hours ago (7|0)  You know full well it is. And the only way for you to atone for your sin -making a woman feel bad by existing- is to kill yourself.  Thats why they chuckle at male suicide figures: they think its justice for the vast, infinite, undefined bulk of crimes against women since the dawn of time.

Upvotes for everyone!

 

 

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Posted on February 23, 2014, in antifeminism, imaginary oppression, manginas, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, playing the victim, reddit, straw feminists and tagged , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 132 Comments.

  1. I wrote something on male suicide figures, and r/mensrights decided it was an anti-male attack – despite, last I checked, what I wrote beginning with what a massively serious issue it was and how important it was to tackle and perhaps reasons why the disparity exists. Their reading comprehension isn’t spectacular, it seems.

  2. Meh, MRAs don’t really care. They just insult the guys who suicide as not manly anyway…

  3. Do they really suspect that every other feminist they meet wishes death upon them?

    I think it’s more like they think every woman that wishes them death is because she’s a feminist.

    I guess that’s the only way they never have to deal with wondering whether they *ever* did something wrong to a woman.

  4. This kind of reminds me of that thing, though. That thing that happened when those MRAs tried to speak at a college somewhere and people protested? And there’s that video that was featured in a post on here a while ago? …I don’t really know much about it, obviously, but didn’t it have something to do with the protestors mocking male suicide?
    (Absolutely not arguing for anything these MRAs are saying, by the way. I’m just wondering if that’s what they’re talking about and if it actually did happen somewhere.)

  5. One feminist, who was being repeatedly shouted down, said “Cry me a river” to one of the dudes interrupting her, and the particular interruption she responded to was him talking about male suicide. Depending on how generous you are, this makes her individually either just someone who lost her cool in a stressful situation or an asshole. One person. It is not reasonable to argue that this is something feminists do routinely unless you can provide evidence.

    What has also been documented is that MRAs response to this individual was to doxx her, and send her rape and death threats. Multiple MRAs. Repeatedly. David did a few posts on this.

  6. Nicely played Kiwi Girl, nicely played.

    On the current topic, last time I said this First Joe accused me of victim blaming (and found himself on the receiving end of me truly angry), but we need anti-suicide campaigns specially targeting men. The idea that asking for help isn’t manly is deadly, depression has enough layers of an “I’m just a weak waste of humanity” without one of them being toxic gender roles.

    On the OP — this feminist finds it far from hilarious when a man commits suicide. I’m not sure I can even have this discussion without fuming, there was a point where it was amazing if my friend group had gone more than a couple of months without someone knowing someone who’d killed themselves, all men, including my ex-FWB’s brother.

    Yeah, I’m going to end this comment before I start fuming the implication I find his death funny is too close to attacking my friends, and we all know how that makes me react (if you don’t know, it involves the words “FUCK YOU!”, a lot)

  7. I guess it’d be misandry to point out the many times MRAs say women should be beaten, raped, killed en masse …

    Remember the guy who said he wouldn’t save a little girl from drowning because she’d just grow up to be a feminist?

    IME, the “do you just want me to apologize for being male/white/straight” people have usually just been pretty thick and insulated and honestly can’t wrap their minds around “you have privilege” having any implications other than “you should feel bad.” When I’ve heard it it wasn’t really meant maliciously or anything other than stupidly.

    Yeah, I’ve heard it referred to as the social justice version of original sin. I think part of the problem is that the conversation about privilege rests on an understanding of power imbalances that a lot of people still lack. It’s hard to explain white privilege to someone who thinks racism is dead, you know?

    I wrote something on male suicide figures, and r/mensrights decided it was an anti-male attack – despite, last I checked, what I wrote beginning with what a massively serious issue it was and how important it was to tackle and perhaps reasons why the disparity exists.

    Did you suggest that anything other than the dreadful oppression of men at the hands of the gynocracy was to blame for the suicide rate? If so, I think I see where you went wrong. ;-)

    What has also been documented is that MRAs response to this individual was to doxx her, and send her rape and death threats. Multiple MRAs. Repeatedly.

    And she’s still being invoked on MRA sites as a feminist boogeyman. Boogeywoman? Boogeyc*nt?

  8. Remember the guy who said he wouldn’t save a little girl from drowning because she’d just grow up to be a feminist?

    Not just a feminist, but a typical woman. Because women suck, amirite guys?

  9. RE: Argenti

    we need anti-suicide campaigns specially targeting men. The idea that asking for help isn’t manly is deadly, depression has enough layers of an “I’m just a weak waste of humanity” without one of them being toxic gender roles.

    Tell me about it. I’ve been trying to cajole our younger brother into therapy for over a year, because he’s been depressed, resorting to substance abuse, and generally miserable for a while. The most success I’ve had is that he asked me whether I thought journalling was a good idea.

    It doesn’t help that our family believes depression is cured by work, so I’m apparently like the only person he can talk to about it.

  10. Argenti Aertheri

    LBT — I really hope you succeed in talking him into therapy, sucks that you can’t do more for him.

    OT — y’all know rapists can sue for custody if their victim gets pregnant? I’m just gonna leave this petition here — http://act.weareultraviolet.org/go/1623?t=2&akid=829.552343.zodgpk

    (I’d drop it on the open thread but yiny screen is tiny)

  11. Is it just me or does “privilege guilt” sound like a light strain of gaslighting?

  12. A-leprechaunist:

    I’m gonna break down the reasons why the post at your link isn’t so much a smoking gun as it is a prime example of Total Failure Syndrome:

    1: The poster was immediately denounced by the other posters, AND by the moderator of the forum (it’s worth noting that moderators, absent contrary evidence, are the best cases to judge the overall sentiment of a given online community).

    2: The poster himself apologized and withdrew the offensive phrasing and sentiment within the same day of the post being made.

    3: Just a side-note: The poster is, in fact, a cis straight white male (something he notes in the retraction-post), like myself. Thus, using that statement as a means to lambaste women feminists already is a mis-categorization.

    Simple fact is, privileged allies in SJ movements (particularly those of us heavily privileged along multiple axes) are often prone to hoof-in-mouth syndrome, because while we are acting out of empathy and good intent, we are not so much acting out of lived experience. It’s a matter of mental reflexes.

  13. (To be clear, the TFS referenced in the prior post belongs purely to A-leprechaunist.)

  14. Check out this post from an MRA troll I encountered at Jezebel.

    Because they’re all in competition for a very limited good: a real man. Which is about 1/100 creatures with dicks. Your calling them ‘guys’ doesn’t help, not to mention it’s intentionally demeaning.

    I asked him to define real man and pointed out that some trans men do not have dicks so that isn’t a valid criteria for defining what a man is. Here was his response:

    I was referring to a subset of men (granted, 99%). Guys is the default, now, on the left, and in the mainstream, for 100%. Where men used to be used, now they use ‘guys.’ It is very common to see women and guys paired. Why not girls and guys? Because they intend to insult men and elevate women verbally/rhetorically, for political reasons. I object to it, and I call them out on it, like they care. But I know what they’re doing. Male wasn’t insulting enough, so they cast around and found guy. Also, the tiny subsets you’re talking about are freaks, a word with an honorable and useful tradition. If I were, say, born a hermaphrodite, I would accept I was a freak, and proceed about life taking no shit and not worrying about things. But not demanding everyone else accept me as normal and build a new toilet to accommodate me.

    The denial that women are frequently called derogatory names and more often than men is pretty par for the course MRA stuff. The virulent transphobia is also expected because we know they don’t give a crap about human rights for men who are not cis. Where this guy goes above and beyond is when he claims that if he were a hermaphrodite, his life would be exactly the same and being viewed as in his words “a freak” would not effect him at all. Yeah right!
    It’s also pretty amazing that he finds “guy” derogatory but referred to men as a “good” and “creatures.” Isn’t the latter far more dehumanizing?

    Manboobzers, please help break me of my habit of posting on Gawker Media sites. In addition to the MRA I have also argued with two racists, two libertarians and one ostensibly liberal feminist who will not acknowledge that Christianity is privileged in the western world and that liberal/moderate Christians should realize that and not sweep the historical and current oppression that is done in the name of Christianity under the rug.

    Why do I do this to myself?

  15. ***trigger warning for suicide***

    The OP completely ignores the fact that at least some of us have had friends and acquaintances commit suicide, and some of them were male. Given the numbers, I am sure that some male feminists have attempted suicide/successfully committed suicide. But totes obvs no feminist is ever directly been affected by male suicide.

    Repugnant MRA view is repugnant.

  16. I think it’s more like they think every woman that wishes them death is because she’s a feminist.

    I guess that’s the only way they never have to deal with wondering whether they *ever* did something wrong to a woman.

    Ironic, isn’t it. They advocate every sort of abuse under the sun, including genocide, then get all outraged that some women may just wish them dead.

  17. WWTH – oh, isn’t that classic? He objects to being called a guy because it’s demeeeeeeaning but has no problem with referring to adult women as girls. Nope, nothing demeaning about that, calling women children is fine. He also seems to miss how often MRAs just call women ‘females’ when they’re not calling us much worse things.

    Ah yes, irony fail part five hundred and fifty three.

    I’m not even touching the trans phobia. ::backs away slowly::

  18. How is guys equal to girls? What happened to “boys”?

  19. Also, the tiny subsets you’re talking about are freaks, a word with an honorable and useful tradition.

    waaaaatttttt

  20. Oh yes, what a “chuckle” I got that morning I was awoken by a phone call that a friend (a guy friend) had committed suicide & been found by his housemate. No wait, that wasn’t a “chuckle”, that was excruciating and the service was filled with sorrow from all who knew him.

    Machalismos can fuck himself with a splintery flagpole. Even if what he’s speculating is an imaginary supposition, it still makes me sick.

  21. I can’t read all of that nonsense right now. I’m too easily triggered by transmisogyny these days.

  22. *TW* rape
    Can someone help me find this original post in Reddit? Because it’s pretty awful.

    http://www.cracked.com/forums/index.php?topic=104477.msg2906315#msg2906315

    So according to Reddit, feminism and SRS is more fucked up than r/rapingwomen.

  23. This is a misandrist website.

  24. This is a misandrist website.

    Welp, BillAlphonso has spoken. I guess we better wrap things up here and find another blog.

  25. Pointing out facts is misandry.
    Mocking hatred of women is misandry.
    This site is misandry.

    Is there anything that isn’t misandry?

  26. cloudiah, maybe he took a wrong turn…we should help him out.

  27. (commenting here because i don’t want to take focus away from lana in the open thread)

    So the LGBT-friendly aunt I emailed is still LGBT-friendly and she accepts me. I just got an email back from her. This means so much to me.

  28. This is a misandrist website.

    You sure told us.

    Bill, are you just a drive-by troll? Come, be my chew toy.

  29. This is a misandrist website.</blockquote

    we would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling MRAS!!

  30. Every time I see a hit-and-run troll here, I’m reminded that manboobz is a big scary site to them, and I smile.

  31. aw, blockquote ate me.

  32. Ally S. I’m glad you have people in your family that accepts you as you are.

  33. So according to Reddit, feminism and SRS is more fucked up than r/rapingwomen.

    Don’t you know, whenever there’s two sides in a dispute, if one side is bad, the other has to be just as bad.

  34. Auggz — no luck in the actual thread, but I found where that imagine came from and “1 day ago” was at least a year ago. Sorry, searching reddit is not my strong suit.

    Cloudiah — well, the Borg could do with new posts…

  35. Ally: That’s wonderful!

  36. Sparky, the only thing that isn’t misandry is misogyny.

    Ally s, glad to hear it!

  37. They answer the question of ‘she feminists chuckle etc’, but do feminists chuckle about male suicide in the first place? I’ve never seen anything close to that. I always wonder where exactly they do find these horrible, extremely bigoted and hateful feminists who wish terrible harm upon men. I guess they’ve got another version of Google or something considering what kind of extremism they somehow find rampant within the movement.

  38. Maybe on tumblr, because there’s some posters that occassionally post “I hate cis/white/hetero/men” stuff. I don’t really like those types, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone who legit meant it.
    Like the last time I saw “cis people are scum”, I went onto their blog and looked at their other posts. They had some disclaimer thing, basically saying zie didn’t hate cis people simply for being cis, but zie hated their privilege. Because cis people are privileged, they’re always going to have a bit of transphobia, or ignorance of trans issues.
    I’ve seen this explained on a lot of other tumblr sjw blogs.

    I don’t agree with it, but I think it’s being dishonest to paint even these extremist sjw feminists as people who just hate men for being men.

    This is assuming this MRA is referring to these types of posts anyways.

  39. By “I don’t agree with it”, I mean I don’t agree that it’s entirely OK to say “I hate [insert majority]“. I just find it unclear, at best.

  40. I’ve also lost family to suicide. It wasn’t funny. It still isn’t.

    You know what else is misandry guys? Oatmeal raisin cookies and sunshine. *nods sagely*

    http://stickerish.com/wp-content/themes/mio/sp-framework/timthumb/timthumb.php?src=http://stickerish.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/TrueStoryBlackTextSS.png&h=500&w=500&zc=2&q=100&a=c&s=&f=&cc=&ct=

  41. The sun is absolutely a misandrist. When it is hot and sunny outside women will often dress in skimpier clothes than they would on rainy cool days.

    If a woman is young and thin and conventionally attractive and she wears skimpy clothes but isn’t willing to have sex with anyone who finds her attractive it is misandry.

    It is also misandry if a woman is fat, has short hair or is over 25 and she wears skimpy clothes. Existing while unfuckable to MRAs/PUAs is misandry and doing it while wearing shorts or a sundress just adds insult to injury.

  42. Bill, are you just a drive-by troll? Come, be my chew toy.

    Don’t do it, Bill! You will be poisoned by the feminist fangs of hellkell!

    Sparky, the only thing that isn’t misandry is misogyny.

    But misogyny don’t real! Claiming it is, is misandry!

    Let’s see, how did I misand today (it’s only 9am) …

    I didn’t make sammiches for the blokes when I got to work

    I didn’t take note of any random dudes looking my way and offer them a blowjob

    I had fun talking about kitties with Mr K

    Ooh I know the really bad one – last night I was about to bring our jackets downstairs when Mr K came up and said I didn’t need to, ‘cos he doesn’t need to be served. Instead of abasing myself and saying my life is nothing unless I can serve him*, I laughed and said it made a change for him because he spends his life serving the kitties. (He said that’s a condition of existence – he’s a philosopher.)

    * Of course disagreeing would have been misandry too.

    Ally – great news!

  43. I’ve also lost family to suicide. It wasn’t funny. It still isn’t.

    Me too, and some friends. Ain’t funny at all.

  44. Resisting suicide has been a moment-by-moment struggle at some points in my life, and I certainly don’t find the despair and sheer exhaustion that struggle causes funny at all.

    Only decent people find suicide the tragic, heartbreaking situation that it actually is. Only indecent people (like MRAs) find the idea in any way funny.

  45. Another thing to remember with these scumpuppies is that they tend to indulge in a massive amount of projection–they assume that other people (and particularly their opponents) are just as wicked and vile as they are. So one reason they believe that feminists laugh at male rape and suicide is because (as we’ve seen on this blog) that’s what they do, both to actual men who are victims, and to women who suffer these fates. Admitting that feminists aren’t as awful as they are would entail too much self-reflection.

    Also: Ally S: HU_FUCKING_ZZAH! I’m so glad that you’re not only in a safer place, now, but also have the support from at least some parts of your family. It’s a bit of good news in a space that can use as much as it can get.

  46. I always wonder where exactly they do find these horrible, extremely bigoted and hateful feminists who wish terrible harm upon men.

    In the same parallel universe as all the feminists that go around screeching at men opening doors for them, I imagine.

  47. I always wonder where exactly they do find these horrible, extremely bigoted and hateful feminists who wish terrible harm upon men.

    The only source I can think of is stuff like the defunct RadFemHub.

  48. Ally:

    Glad to hear your aunt is a wonderful person! Hoping you can continue to find supportive people in meatspace!

  49. Hey, @gillyrosebee, lovely to see you back, hope Christmas wasn’t too bad in the end.

    Resisting suicide has been a moment-by-moment struggle at some points in my life, and I certainly don’t find the despair and sheer exhaustion that struggle causes funny at all.

    Only decent people find suicide the tragic, heartbreaking situation that it actually is. Only indecent people (like MRAs) find the idea in any way funny.

    I’m so sorry to hear this, I can empathise and I totally agree with everything you said. Hugs if you want them.

    @Moldybrehd

    Every time I see a hit-and-run troll here, I’m reminded that manboobz is a big scary site to them, and I smile.

    Me too, :)

  50. Gah! Still not a real Boobzer! No matter what I offer blockquote monster never wants it!

  51. I’m a Manboobz traitor these days. I have gone over to the dark side and use Firefox’s formatting toolbar.

  52. Sorry, I wrote this earlier before the news about Lana. I wasn’t going to post it but this particular subject is something that really pisses me off, hope nobody minds:

    Fuck you Maschalismos!

    That’s right this evil feminist was cackling with glee when they found her 40 year old mate dead. That overdose was totes hilarious. The fact that he did it the day I was supposed to visit him was a plan on my evil feminist part to leave him with no support.

    I have not spent EVERY single day since thinking about what more I could have done, wishing I’d called him a few more times, being afraid to have friends in case I let them down the same way.

    Also, it was the funnest fun in all the world to tell the woman he’d recently split up with that he’d killed himself, that’s what I got my feminist card for!

    Oh, and when they put his lovely dog to sleep because he went insane locked for far too long in a house with the dead body of the man he loved, this chuckling feminist was just cackling with fucking glee.

    Yeah. FUCK YOU Maschalismos.

    (Please don’t feel the need to respond anybody, Lana’s the thing right now. Just, sorry, couldn’t leave this particular thread without saying something.)

  53. Hey Kitteh, sorry didn’t refresh. I’m on iPad, really wish I could use Firefox. Not getting the laptop out though, I gets angry with it.

    Seriously, we’ve had to replace the hard drive twice because I threw it across the room, and I am genuinely the quietest person usually, but damn, that laptop pushes my buttons! (It’s lucky Mr M’s a computer genius.)

  54. Oh, sod it! My sluggish brain just realised, I should have put a trigger warning on that post, I apologise.

    (The suicide one, not the laptop one. Although some tech people might find that a little upsetting.)

  55. Ally, I’m so happy for you!

  56. Epiphany: Sunshine being misandry must be why my furry overlords are always stretched out in sunbeams.

  57. Yay for Ally! :D

    RE: Argenti

    I really hope you succeed in talking him into therapy, sucks that you can’t do more for him.

    Yeah. At least I managed to pound into him that he should call me before he does anything suicidal. I haven’t heard from him in over a month, starting to worry a bit.

    Poor kid. Like, it’s all right for me, I’m USED to being mentally ill all over the place all over the time, but he just doesn’t know what to do with himself.

  58. I don’t understand why the MRA’s care so much about male suicide rates. Men’s lives suck, it’s hard to be a man. you might go through a ton of shit in life, and still not be respected for it, and still not get any female attention from it. if I was faced with the prospect of never getting a wife, never having children, I would probably off myself. Life is too shitty. There are perfectly valid reasons why more men off themselves than women. I think that suicide is a rational choice, if anything, people who kill themselves are in a better place than they were during their lives. Feminists shouldn’t have to worry about the male suicide rate, they have their own social justice issues to worry about. If mens rights dudes actually cared about male suicide, they would do something about it, not be using it as a card to play against feminists. That being said, I don’t personally believe that male suicide is a problem. I think that a lot of guys just have shitty lives, no respect, and no female validation. Its fine if they kill themselves, it only reduces suffering in the world. Like Robin Williams, what did he have to live for? He was suffering early dementia, and facing the prospect of another divorce. he would have died 10 years from now, out of his mind, and in debt, not able to live the lifestyle he was used to. It’s perfectly rational that he chose to off himself.

  59. Kyle, I hope you get help. It sounds like you need it.

    That said, women don’t get all sorts of accolades simply for going through life and facing down its problems either. I don’t get male attention for going through any of the problems I’ve gone through.

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