Men’s Rights Redditor: “Going to a strip club as a guy must be like going to a regular nightclub as a girl!”
Peep show
How stupid do you have to be to actually believe the following nonsense? Not just regular stupid. Men’s Rights stupid.
Heck, this is even stupid by normal Men’s Rights standards. It made me think of this line from Ruthless People.
Now, horqth could very well be a troll. His account is brand new, and, I mean, this is just amazingly dumb. But here’s the thing: his comments are being treated as if they are completely reasonable by the Men’s Rights subreddit. I noticed only a couple of mostly ignored comments out of more than 100 even raising the possiblity that he was a troll.
Not only has his post gotten dozens of upvotes, but in the comments there are numerous other Men’s Rights Redditors — not trolls — who’ve actually managed to outdo him in the sheer ridiculousness of their opinions. And they’re getting upvotes too.
Milessycamore seemed to suggest that horqth had understated the degree to which men were being victimized in both places, and more than 200 Redditors agreed:
Saxonjf thought it would be nice if more women would act like these strippers and make men feel “important special.”
Itchybrain, putting his economist hat on, suggested that the root of the problem was the massive over-valuation of women:
So how did the ladies get so overvalued in the first place? Blame the government and all that darn welfare. Responding to one contrarian Men’s Righster who suggested — get this! — that women are appropriately valued — FloranHunter laid down this truth bomb, by which I mean a bunch of complete and utter crap:
If only we could return to the good old days, when women would starve unless they were super nice to unattractive dudes who pestered them in bars!
Lawtonfogle also has no problem with the idea of men being valued for their money; he just wants to get more bang(s) for the buck.
![Lawtonfogle 10 points 1 day ago (12|2) Government intervention in the means of social support programs that result in a woman having far more bargaining power in relationship dynamics. If it weren't for laws that provided support for children and forced fathers to pay for children (even when they aren't the biological father), it would be a very different issue. Men would still be valued for their money and women for their attractiveness, but money would hold more value and being a male willing to commit would also hold (more) value. permalink source parent save give gold hide child comments [–]IOIOOIIOIO 5 points 23 hours ago (7|2) Effective male contraception is going to be amazing.](http://manboobz.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/lawton.png)
I give up.
Posted on February 18, 2014, in antifeminism, beta males, bunnies, creepy, dozens of upvotes, empathy deficit, entitled babies, evil sexy ladies, evil single moms, excusing abuse, idiocy, imaginary backwards land, imaginary oppression, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, one hundred upvotes, only men pay taxes apparently, oppressed men, reddit, sexual harassment and tagged antifeminism, men's rights, misogyny, MRA, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 452 Comments.
I’m pretty sure that condoms are effective male contraception.
I just… Wow!
Did I misread that or did FloranHunter complain about women being too safe from violence?
The key problem – known to everyone intuitively, but now deemed politically inadmissible – is that men (but not women) need a good job in order to ‘have a life’ – that is, to acquire a partner and have a family. The explanation for this could not be clearer. Males possess mate-value in terms of the degree to which they possess ‘good genes’, regarding which male status is the major indicator. This is not the case for any woman: there being no overlap with men here, because female mate-value is ‘fertility’, not ‘good genes'; and as such is unrelated to status. Status is purely a measure of male mate-value. Inasmuch as the scope for males to achieve status is ever more narrowed by deliberate government anti-male discrimination and in artificially favouring women — and inasmuch as this is exacerbated by an inexcusably elitist-separatist motivation by those who have placed themselves within the government-media-education über-class — then many or most men indeed will not be able to ‘have a life’. The predictable impact of this is serious social breakdown, one major manifestation of which would be likely violence against the government-media-education elites, given that they are clearly identifiable as being responsible.
Someone please tell these d00dz about vasectomies.
Cat lady: what the fuck? I hate to be the one to break it to you, but men are not undervalued.
Obvious troll is obvious.
What I have learned from this post:
1. Men want women to make them feel “important special.” It doesn’t really matter what the woman actually thinks about the man.
2. The life of a single mother on welfare is cushy and glamorous.
3. It would be better if it was back in the old days, when, without a man, a woman starved or fell prey to violence.
4. Men are valued for their money and women for their attractiveness. Women’s attractiveness value has been over-inflated by government intervention. The only way to right this is to make sure money is valued way more than attractiveness. Women cannot be valued for their money and men cannot be valued for their attractiveness. No one can be valued for their personality.
5. Fathers shouldn’t have to help support and raise their children.
6. All women are essentially like strippers; they all pay attention to men for monetary gain.
Yep, greatest human rights movement of the 20th century.
How about this? How about: “Strip clubs are about the only place in the universe that Mens Rights’ maxim of ‘women are only after men’s cash’ becomes true”? SHE IS BEING NICE TO YOU BECAUSE SHE WANTS YOUR MONEY. That is her fucking job.
Didn’t quite follow all of that, Cat Lady, but I’m guessing your key theme is that love conquers all?
*sssssiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*
@cat lady
i hope you realize that made no sense.
are you forgetting that “status” as a men benefits them? Like, if you have a well paying job, you get lots of money if you have a fancy title you get respect.
those status things are for men. they’re to benefit them. and if they’re whining that it’s not getting them women, well, no one is obligated to date anyone else.
Men don’t care about “good genes”. That is not a thing that dudes have ever invoked to justify their preferences, nope, never happened.
(Personally I don’t see why anyone should justify their preferences, as long as the people they prefer are all adults and capable of consent, but that’s a different argument.)
I do love how the original mister completely missed the entire point of strip clubs–to separate people from their cash.
I’m sure cat lady is not at all the catwoman who pooped in another thread a couple of days ago.
Is this Cat Lady troll the same as Cat Woman from the thread the other day? I call sock.
Ruthless People is one of my favourite films and that is one of my favourite scenes.
Of course Earl looks smart alongside MRAs.
Ninjaed by katz!
“20th century” should be “21st century.” Sorry, apparently I’m still preoccupied with 1985.
Cat lady: You do know that women also pass on their genes to their children? In fact half of everyone’s genes came from their mother. So, no, this:
…is complete and utter nonesense. Well, your whole post is complete and utter nonsense, this bit just stuck out at me.
There should be some sort of punishment for creating a nym too long to fit in the space available. Since she’s claiming to be a cat I say we spray her with water.
Which one was Catwoman again?
in cute animal updates, which are way more important than boring evopsych trolls who post walls of text, my sisters guinea pig is crawling all over my arms and seriously hindering my internet abilities
Cat woman was a very smelly sockish twit who did a driveby the other day. It was so boring I can’t remember the details.
Fade – squeee! :)
You know, guys. I’ve heard a lot of criticisms of welfare in my day, from all sorts of arenas: moral, political, economical. But this is the very first time I’ve ever encountered the complaint that welfare keeps a woman from fucking you. I mean, godDAMN.
RE: Cat Lady
Oh. It’s YOU again.
men (but not women) need a good job in order to ‘have a life’ – that is, to acquire a partner and have a family.
Uh, no. That’s bullshit. There are men who are supported by their families, or spouses, or by social support programs. *points to self* There are women who need to work or they’ll starve. *points to my mother*
Males possess mate-value in terms of the degree to which they possess ‘good genes’, regarding which male status is the major indicator.
Yup, because when I look at my husband, that’s what I think about. His genes.
female mate-value is ‘fertility’, not ‘good genes’; and as such is unrelated to status.
Where are you pulling this shit from? Oh, right, the Institute of Your Ass.
inasmuch as this is exacerbated by an inexcusably elitist-separatist motivation by those who have placed themselves within the government-media-education über-class
Did you even THINK about how you sound right now? Seriously, I’ve read Dr. Bronner’s soap lables less goofy than this!
The predictable impact of this is serious social breakdown, one major manifestation of which would be likely violence against the government-media-education elites, given that they are clearly identifiable as being responsible.
Well, that was a FASCINATING little fantasy, madam, but it’s just that: fantasy.
Wait, wait, I just realized something.
If hubby’s appeal to me is his genes… but I’m gay… and he can’t impregnate me… OH GOD HELP I’M BROKEN!
No, Catwoman is THIS, the greatest sock ever:
http://manboobz.com/2013/05/07/gullible-mens-rights-redditors-fooled-by-fake-jezebel-article-arguing-that-paternity-fraud-is-one-way-to-break-the-rule-of-fathers/comment-page-8/
11km, people.
Please tell me that was a Bowling for Soup reference.
Oh strewth, I’d forgotten the names of the Eleven Kilometres socks. :D
But someone called Catwoman / Cat woman was here the other day, briefly.
Anyways, I’ve dropped a note to the Dark Lord to see if this is yet another escapee from the sock drawer.
The comments by “saxonjf” and “lawnfogle” in the OP are a stupid because they actually idealize the notion of women immitating strippers and fawning over men for profit. Aren’t MRAs supposed to oppose the objectification of men?
Also the whole analogy is stupid, because as far as motives are concerned, it equates men in a club setting with strippers. To me this seems overly simplistic at best and misandric at worst.
Ruthless people is in my top 5 favourite comedies ever. So many quotable lines :
“When my husband hears about this, he will EXPLODE!!”
“Either the police chief is a complete moron, and complete morons are rare…[sideways glance at Earl]”
“What’d he do? Hire a publicist??”
“I’ve been kidnapped by K-mart!!”
“We have 150 officers, 75 cars and 2 helicopters. He WON’T get away!”
“You’re very good at this. You should write children’s books.”
“I’m no criminal. I can’t even sell retail. And that’s legal!”
I could go on….
Oh yeah, the article. *snickers* I enjoyed the commenter that wasn’t a woman, and hadn’t been (allegedly) to a strip club, but still commented knowledgeably on the comparison…
I do sometimes look at men and think about their jeans, and factor that assessment into how attractive I find them. Does that count?
Cat lady, not only are you sock puppeting (this is your third identity so far) but that comment was all copypasta from here.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmbis/writev/womeninworkplace/m22.htm
(Note to readers; Steve Moxon is a fairly high-profile British MRA, sort of their version of Warren Farrell, though a bit more extreme from what I’ve seen.)
Shape up or be banned!
Blockquote monster is peckish.
Timothy – and Earl’s great line:
Earl: Yeah, and then we’re off to Haiti!
Carol: Not Haiti, Tahiti.
Earl: I knew that.
WTF is boring old Roscoe Coltrane doing back here? He was trolling years ago.
Why do sexist dudes find the idea of objectification so hard to grasp? You’d think we were asking them to summarize Foucault in 50 words or less.
Good job, hellkell. And yeah, just ban ‘em, David, it’s not like they’re being INTERESTING.
Also, bonus points to hellkell for quoting my wayward adolescence.
@kittehserf. Bill Pullman’s expression sells the hell out of that line.
Also – “I seemed to go on forever. It must have lasted…..two minutes.”
And “So if I looked like his mother, and you looked like his father, this is what our son would look like……strong argument for birth control.”
*EDIT*
“It seemed to go on forever. It must have lasted…….. two minutes.”
LOL yes, his shifty-eyed look when he said that!
katz: Yes, that’s the song!
Reblogged this on I eat sacred cows. They make the best hamburger!.
@cat lady-I love cats, but that does not mean I am mentally unstable.
Subtle name. I can totally see you’re here in good faith.
Where do MRAs live that all the women they meet are either welfare queens or sponging off men? Have they honestly never seen a woman working a crummy, demanding job just to pay the rent?
…Didn’t one of them just get back from a strip club?
As an average-looking woman, I can’t say I’ve ever walked into a bar and had hot guys in G-strings offer me lap dances. Not until I’d bought them a couple of drinks, anyway.
RE: Shaenon
Have they honestly never seen a woman working a crummy, demanding job just to pay the rent?
…Didn’t one of them just get back from a strip club?
Oh, but that doesn’t COUNT. Everyone knows women in strip clubs do it out of sheer love of the job. Money is just a nice perk to buy bonbons with.
For our resident Aussies
http://giellelovee.tumblr.com/post/9419559862/at-120-degrees-it-was-so-hot-in-australia-that-koalas
Please remember to water your koala if you see one.
Poor koalas! Well, actually the second one seemed pretty happy.
Why are those guys out riding bikes in 120 degree weather?
@cassandra: I call you on your summarising error, it was a summarise Proust competition!
From the first comment listed by David:
Why was he in the stripclub rather than just a regular bar? Aren’t the prices for the alcohol more expensive anyways and/or there’s a cover charge, so he is – in fact – buying “something” already?
I was quite literally laughing out loud at that one.
These boys can’t ever seem to remember the existence of condoms when they go on about “male contraception.”
As a sex worker I always laugh at the MRAs forgetting about condoms because clients always use the the same stupid line(s)
1. Sex *feels* better without a condom (fuck getting STIs or causing pregnancy, this is about how their dick *feels*).
2. I can’t cum with a condom on (me – ok I can give a handjob. But reference point ones reasons why I won’t fuck anyone without using a condom).
They always get a massive case of the sads when I point these out and use the weird “compliment” that they only as me due to my (ergh) “tightness”.
Needless to say this is why they see a sex worker cos god knows I wouldn’t date them/I feel awful for their wives.
It harps back to MAN FEELZ cos you know, their penis not being happy is the reason why woman are so goddamn awful.
MY KINGDOM FOR EFFECTIVE MALE CONTRACEPTION.
David commented:
Well, no wonder Cat Lady made no sense. The “Women in the Workplace” publication at that link is one horrible wall of words saying nothing. I think it might be the single most boring text I’ve ever tried to read.
Why on earth would Parliament post shit like that on its Web site?
I wonder if these guys have actually met women? In my experience most of the women I’ve met and wanted to hang around (based on their awesomeness as a person or lack of it), have been independent, tenacious, ambitious and self-sufficient. Also, getting compliments in a club is not the apex of human experience, I kind of actually want these guys to transform into an attractive woman for a day, Disney style, and experience the “utopia” for themselves. Wow all these guys are hitting on me! I can retire happy my life is complete!
It kind if strikes at the heart of what drives MRAs though. When it comes down to it, they feel they aren’t loved. They aren’t loved enough, or correctly, or as much as other people, and rather than work for love, than compromise and use empathy and sympathy to connect with people, they construct a grand conspiracy that permeates all of life and all of history, so that they can frame themselves as legitimately disadvantaged and downtrodden. They’re obsessed with, if not love, validation. They seem to believe that there is a magic amount of it out there that they are entitled to, or that they once had, and that something beyond their control is preventing them from receiving the proper amount. All humans need love and validation, which is what’s so tragic about MRAs, because by aggressively demanding inordinate amounts of validation, by pulling down those they perceive as getting too much without earning it (ie attractive women), they ensure they will never get it themselves, or worse, become incapable of recognising and appreciating it when they do.
It looks like a submission to a select committee, depending on the committee and the topic, submissions get made public. It’s *not* a government publication.
Feel sorry for the public servants who have to read submissions like that, try and work out their main points, and summarise them into a document grouped by themes. This is your tax dollars at work people /sigh
@Hookerwithaheartofmuscle
Hi! Here’s your welcome package. =D
So…regarding the line about effective male contraception…have these men never heard of condoms?
Not only half a person’s genes come from their mother, but all of their mitochondrial DNA. I know a young woman who got herself sterilized so as not to pass on a familial disorder. My youngest son got his high-level math skills from his maternal grandmother who royally aced it in an Ivy league school back in the 1940s. (and was told to knock it off and just get married and be a housewife) Yes, women have genes too.
@ally thanks for the link, love my cat avi (as a proud cat baby and mumma since birth… yeh my parents cat thought I was her kitten when I was born. I lead a confusing childhood…) Might be “hookergal” now not “hookerwithaheartofmuscle” guess its shorter… Given the hate of sex workers by some MRAs (he doesn’t like hard chairs) I think its also kinda apt…
Anyway, glad to have stumbled across manboobz during my stumble into the rabbit hole that is the world of MRAs
Cat Lady, our cat overloads are displeased with you for using their name in vain. Beware.
I think MRAs have trouble grasping the difference between getting positive and welcome attention from men (as usual the existence of lesbians doesn’t occur to them) and facing an onslaught of club creepers and street harassers. The latter are in no way prospects for sex, dating, or marriage.
To those redditors, I have one thing to say to you.
Warning there is some language that could be considered by some to be insulting to people with mental illness.
Wait, do they want women to only be interested in them for their money? I thought that was one of the things they complained about.
They never say who’s doling out the violence men are supposedly protecting us from, either. Of course pointing out that it’s male violence would only bring outraged cries of MISANDRY! and NAMALT!
BTW jefrir, don’t know if you’ve been on site lately, but a big thank you for the tip about Firefox’s text formatting toolbar. I don’t think I’ve been devoured by the blockquote monster once since I installed it. :D
Gods, that is so amazingly wrong.
Anyway, the OP.
I… have to admit, I don’t actually find it that dumb or odd or weird. I think it makes perfect sense from the perspective of an MRA. Women in a strip club want something from men (They want to fulfill their jobs, and earn a wage, and make a living, and live a life), which CLEARLY boils men down to nothing but their wallets, while every man in every nightclub at all times, everywhere, want something from the women-things present, namely the vagins they are mere life support systems for – and these two things, someone doing a job and someone boiling someone else down to nothing but a thing manipulated sequence of words into providing an ejaculation are obviously entirely analogous.
Yes.
Yes they are.
Entirely so.
Uhuh.
what the eff, MRAs? THat’s not how analogies work!
Glad it helped, Kittehs! I found out about it on Pharyngula, and thought I’d pass the joy along.
Regarding the OP, it wouldn’t be such a bad analogy if the conclusion they reached was “and just like the guys in clubs, strippers are not actually interested in you, and their flattery should not be considered actually flattering – it’s just a way of getting what they want.” But instead they go for “strippers are awesome, so what are women complaining about?”
Plus there’s the minor fact that people go to strip clubs pretty much exclusively to see people strip, whereas women generally go to nightclubs for reasons other than being hit on by douchebags.
And MRAs certainly have no idea the level of sexual assault in UK night clubs. Was talking to my nephew at Christmas about @everydaysexism’s posts which seem to imply that it is impossible for an attractive woman to go to a club, these days, without being groped. And he confirmed that it is the case. And my nephew was saying how frustrating it is because he can do nothing to help his female friends escape being assaulted – it seems a given that that will happen. Basically, if you are female in a club, someone will grope you during the evening.
So yes, MRAs, you try being physically assaulted every time you go out to go dancing. Because apparently the cost of being female and wanting to dance is being sexually assaulted. Obviously, you wouldn’t go to a club unless you wanted to be groped.
My conclusion – if someone opened a club in the UK and guaranteed that they would bounce and ban anyone accused by another customer of sexual assault, they would be packed with women customers. And they would be targeted with hate mail as being misandrist. I mean – false accusations!
When I was at uni, I knew a lot of straight women who drank in gay bars, because they could drink and dance without being groped.
So basically they want women to value them for their money yet men are under-appreciated in terms of attraction. Contradicts. And what if they find a girl that values them for their money… wouldn’t it be a gross overestimation to actually PAY for her costs even though she’s just a woman? (as they said that women are being overvalued now, let alone when they actually pay for one, who’s only staying with that particular dude for his cash) Or do they believe they’d get the hottest women ever? Jeez, what DO they want!
Oh, I was under the impression that strippers want men for their money, and don’t MRAs hate gold-digging sluts? Come on guys, you are giving mixed signals here – do you or do you not want women pretending to like you for your money?
It always disappoints me a bit when I see terms like “stupid” or “idiot” or “moron” used on this blog as insults. If, for instance, “r**ard” is not allowed, why allow synonyms of it?
1: I agree with Kiwi Girl that the opening story doesn’t pass the smell test. The whole “I didn’t go into the strip club to buy anything but a drink” makes no sense. Clearly, what he means is he wanted to sit there and ogle women without actually tipping or paying for a lap-dance, getting by on the minimum possible expenditure. Which is fine–the clubs factor in such conduct on their cover charge/drink prices. But it’s not like he went in there ignorant of what sort of establishment it was.
2: I can also confirm jefrir’s statement–straight women quite often go to gay bars to evade harassment. It’s VERY common in Chicago’s Boystown neighborhood to run into bachelorette parties. There was a brief kerfluffle over this during the past couple of years, because Illinois dragged our heels on legalizing gay marriage; a lot of gay bars banned the bachelorette parties on the grounds that they were celebrating an event that the regular customers couldn’t enjoy themselves, and it felt like having their noses rubbed in it. Now that we finally decided to move forward there, I think that’s done with, though.
3: Having gone to strip clubs back when I was young, single and had spare cash, I will state that the original poster is correct about one thing–the women working there are usually very good at making you feel like you’re the center of the universe (they’re also good at creating archetype roles that mesh with their looks so that a customer gets to feel like he’s found a unique girl to fit his tastes). It’s an ego-stroke, and a nice little fantasy world, and that can be fun when you’ve got nothing real to fall back on. However, at no time does it resemble how a woman at a nightclub gets hit on, and there the OP demonstrates his utter cluelessness. If anything, the best comparison would be to Japan’s host/hostess clubs, which provide the customer with the personal attention, but not the bare skin.
dlouwe: I don’t think most people would necessarily consider those words synonyms for the r-word. Especially “stupid.”
dlouwe said: “It always disappoints me a bit when I see terms like “stupid” or “idiot” or “moron” used on this blog as insults. If, for instance, “r**ard” is not allowed, why allow synonyms of it?”
I didn’t think anyone perceived those words as slurs. I imagine “dumbass” or “asshat” would work fine in place of them, though.