Men’s Rights White Knights rush in to protect Karen “GirlWritesWhat” Straughan from MRA criticism
Karen Straughan, in an uncharacteristic moment of silence
So FeMRA videoblogger Karen “GirlWritesWhat” Straughan flapped her gums for nearly two hours the other night and sounds came out. This time she wasn’t sitting at her kitchen table blabbing to a webcam about female “hypoagency” and regurgitating misremembered factoids about bonobos but was speaking to an audience of mostly white dudes at Ryerson University in Toronto Canada.
I haven’t watched her performance — which is of course online as well — because life is short, and frankly I’d rather endure this for ten hours than subject myself to the tedious GWW for nearly two.
But I did take a look at a thread on the Men’s Rights subreddit started by a dude who hoped he and his fellow MRAs could have “a proper discussion about the talk, pros and cons, without descending into a circlejerk or a downvote party.” That’s right: he actually wanted GWW’s biggest fanboys to discuss her ideas (such as they are) on their merits.
This did not go over very well with the regulars, who jumped up to defend their favorite damsel in distress. ManUpManDown argued against the very notion of criticizing GWW, on the grounds of 1) her being supercool and 2) giving talks is hard:
Huh. But by NOT offering any criticism, aren’t you in fact treating her not as a writer or activist or, god forbid, a thinker, but precisely as a mascot?
Still, a few brave MRAs did bring up substantive critiques of her talk. For example, both 2095conash and memetherapy noted that she probably said “Right?” too often. Bluecharge, while proud of her performance, noted with brutal honesty that her “way of wrapping up points by saying ‘so there you go’ was a bit trite.”
So there you go.
Oh, I forgot to mention one dumb criticism some dumb guy made. GWW apparently suggested that if all the men in the world took three days off it would take three years to recover from the disaster that would ensue.
Essemd implied that this was a bit alarmist, arguing that if you gradually replaced men in the workforce with women — over the course of many years — it wouldn’t be the end of the world, because women could do these “men’s jobs” too. “[S]aying either gender is required because this and this job is mainly occupied by men or women is just false,” Essemd concluded.
Luckily there were a few real MRAs around to teach this fella a thing or two. Like Rikevo, who offered the powerful rebuttal that women can’t do shit:
Right?
And xNOM had a little list:
So there you go.
NOTE: I actually had that loop of “What is Love” on during most of the writing of this post. Hey, it’s a catchy song.
Posted on February 8, 2014, in antifeminism, FemRAs, FeMRAsplaining, GirlWritesWhat, internal debate, irony alert, men created civilization, men invented everything, misogyny, MRA, oppressed white men, reddit, women's jobs aren't real and tagged antifeminism, girlwriteswhat, karen straughan, men's rights, misogyny, MRA, reddit, ryerson. Bookmark the permalink. 505 Comments.
Well, after the British Empire got Victoria, the sun started to set on it. So all down hill since the 19th century, thx to women.
You’ve seen this here? If so, it’s definitely used ironically, if at all. Can’t really speak for other sites, and they’re kind of irrelevant.
Marie, don’t worry. Changing tires is way straightforward.
It’s not like cars come with manuals with a step by step guide, or anything.
Really, if he wanted to give a hard task, he should have chosen lemon-merengue pie making. I still can’t get it right…
I always feel like responding to the “working on cars is so haarrddd” guys with a demand that they go make me a perfect souffle. Cause I’ve tried both, and the souffle is harder.
Don’t let Albert hear you say that. :D
@hellkell: I have seen it used on sites beyond here, and I don’t think it is irrelevant. I mean, David isn’t just writing solely for the community here. He is writing to keep a record of the horrible shit these people believe. I know I have used a number of articles from here on other sites to illustrate how horrible the MRA is. Hell, someone linking an article on a forum is how I found the site.
I would rather put in a new alternator than make a pie crust.
Breakfastman: He’s writing to mock misogyny. You are taking a very tiresome stance.
BreakfastMan, people who’ve got to this article are going to read past the headline, aren’t they? Maybe even read the comments? It’s going to be pretty obvious pretty quickly that he’s mocking their use of the term, and how they deride any man defending/siding with any woman. I really wouldn’t worry about it.
@shaenon
Oh, man, me too. I mean, citation desperately needed on her part.
@Cassandra
Well, that’s good news for me, cuz I wanna learn how to fix cars, and I hoping it won’t be too hard. :3 (when I get one, and I hope it will be when, I want to baby the fuck out of it. Idk. I just like cars.)
@ Marie
All the other stuff that needs to be done around the house that these dudes will try to convince you can only be done by a man? You can totally do it.
I’m really confused… how can a mocking site legitimize anything? Isn’t that rather like saying, “The Onion posted abut it, so it must be a real and important thing.”
Don’t send Onion links to people, they might get confused. In fact maybe we should ban it, or insist that they insert a bunch of disclaimers into all their articles.
Oops, forget, the previous comment was filled with sarcasm. Just so that’s clear.
So in more complete failures to understand anything, here’s someone from The Red Pill subreddit explaining why women like cats:
This is totally my experience, if by “work for a cats [sic] attention”, you mean “stay very still and put on a blanket” and by not “giv[ing] a fuck”, you mean coming up and flopping out of my chest while purring.
Link here:
http://rp.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1x43vw/a_theory_on_why_women_like_cats_and_guys_like_dogs/
H/T to the Blue Pill subreddit.
OMG, Cassandra, are you SUUUURE you’re being sarcastic?
@cassandra
XD that was too funny.
@wordsp1nner
I have a counter theory for them: (some) women like cats because cats are fucking adorable :3
Granted that my cat is a bit unfriendly to the cat next door, but labeling her yowling and fussing “dark triad traits” seems just a tad overdramatic.
“GWW apparently suggested that if all the men in the world took three days off it would take three years to recover from the disaster that would ensue.”
Half of humanity decides to just up and stop working for three days! Bad things happen! Well, no shit.
Every man in the world is an air traffic controller. All of them.
Yup, I totally had to work for these two to climb on top of me.
I totally have to work for Fribbie to come in screaming WOWWOWOWOW because me sitting on couch = she requires lap.
I totally have to work to have Mads winding her tail around my feet and then flinging herself down and doing while I’m trying to do something at the computer.
My theory: same as Marie’s about cats being fucking adorable, and MRA doesn’t get attention from cats because he’s a douchecanoe and of course they don’t like him.
xNom using computer programmers as one of roles that would cause disaster if they took 3 days off is ridiculous. Programmers are office workers dude. They take long weekends.
When I used to work with a bunch of programmers none of them ever came in before 10. Oddly enough the world seemed to keep right on running while they were asleep.
Ha. One of my cats just came up behind me on the couch and gently tapped me on my shoulder to get my attention. My other cat climbs on top of me probably 30 times a day and shoves her face in my face. Cats aren’t aloof alpha assholes getting tips from The Red Pill subreddit. At least not towards people they know and like.
(Well, ok, my last cat hated everyone but me, and sometimes attacked me as well, but she had a very rough childhood, I’m pretty sure. I rescued her as a stray.)
Oh, and on the “white knight” thing, HeatherN’s comment pretty much expresses exactly what I was thinking with that.
I debated whether or not to use the term, but decided to use it — with a giant dollop of irony — primarily because GWW uses it ALL THE TIME and is constantly accusing feminist women who are being harassed by men of “damseling” and inviting the harassment upon themselves in order to get attention from “white knights.”
The giant irony being, of course, that her MRA fanboys treat her so much like a damsel in distress that they don’t even want her to face even mild criticism *from other MRAs*.
It’s not a term I would use outside of this or some very similar context.
Re The Onion, I have Funny Facebook Status Messages and Lamebook in my reader feed, and numerous times there have been people treating The Onion posts as factual. One of the funniest was people thinking this was true: http://www.theonion.com/articles/42-million-dead-in-bloodiest-black-friday-weekend,30517/
I mean, one might think that maybe the odd person could die from being crushed in a shopper stampede, but 42 million?
Witchy kitty is definitely “dark triad” – why else would he insist on accompanying me to the bathroom? Every time. And attempt to break down the door if shut out.
Mr Hadji used to do that! We were always so pleased to have help in the toilet. Sometimes he’d help by sitting in the lap, which was a tad distracting.
Weeeeeeeell there is this http://literallyunbelievable.org/ site about people in facebook (mis)interpreting the Onion as a legitimate news source. :3
Well if we’re on the topic of cats…I actually quite like them precisely because you can leave them alone for hours on end and they don’t get all sad and worried you’ve abandoned them. Dogs are just way too clingy.
Apropos of nothing, what in name of all that is unholy is “the dark triad”?
Heather, not my cats! When I get home from work my cat Rio is practically beside herself. While I fuss around putting things away and changing, she follows me from room to room, hopping onto furniture to get to eye level and purring/meowing at high decibal. The other cat, Rabbit, flops himself on the floor, moving periodically to be more in the way of my path and stares at me. This happens every single day of my work days. I guess it just depends on the cats. Also, it’s not like they are alone all night…my daughter is there!
Off topic, but this is why I have to laugh when some people claim that animals don’t experience emotions or love their human companions. Lol!
Oh here’s Rabbit and Rio (fyi, I adopted them from the Humane Society as adult cats so I didn’t choose their names…I don’t know the reasons for them).
I’ve had two cats now and they’ve both been velcro cats. Maybe the reason that dudebro is encountering so much feline hostility is that cats, quite sensibly, don’t like him.
(I’m guessing this is a trait that they share with most of the women he meets.)
marci, I love the way Rabbit’s lazing on the stairs! That’s a gorgeous pic.
Love Rio’s colouring, too.
I’ve had eleven kitties over the decades and they’ve varied enormously in clinginess. Thomas – nope, he’d butt heads and rub ankles, but cuddles and laps were out. Mads is much the same, though I’ve discovered she has a weakness for being held like a baby and cuddled that way. Fribs and Katie – see lap, will inhabit. Magnus and Mamie, ditto, though having Mags on the lap was risking Cat Anger Consequences if you looked at him the wrong way.
Could it possibly be that MRAs have no more clue about cats being individuals than they do about women?
I wonder if they try to neg cats.
LOL can you imagine the blank stares they’d get if they tried?
It’s the indifference that makes them rage. Nothing pisses someone like that off more than the person/cat/whatever they’re babbling at just not giving a shit.
(Cats do “don’t give a shit” exceptionally well.)
Perhaps we should learn to yawn in their faces, the way kitties do.
I found the perfect tee for all this:
Funny, my mum used to tell me when I was a teenager that men could tell they were boring me and I should probably learn to hide it in case it got me into trouble,
Hey… I really could have done with a lot fewer mocking comments about how if you have any issue with the title you’re dense and don’t get it and need flashing signs; I understand it’s sarcasm, I really do, but it still bugs me. Even sarcasm or mocking someone with a term they use only because they use it can still somewhat legitimize that term. I don’t think it’s a horrible crime, David isn’t a bad person, and I respect that the opposite position is legitimate too, it’s just a little thing that could have been discussed and got shut down by people with more force than I think was needed.
Sorry to drop a post like that and go but I’m going to be off the internet for a while (other reasons, not because of this) so if you reply to my overly serious post and I don’t respond I’m just gone, not ignoring :)
There are so many “cat doesn’t give a shit” pics (quell surprise).
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6936500224/h8F9A3A0A/
Honey badgers have nothing on cats.
Thanks kittehserf! Rabbit is such a poser, I have tons of photos like that. I don’t have as many of Rio because for some reason her eyes really catch the light and she almost looks demonic lol! Plus she just doesn’t pose nice the brat.
Women like cats because they embody the a dark triad?
What’s this dark triad?
Adorably fluffy (1), arrogantly scatterbrained(2), and codependent?(3)
(1) no explanation required, and I’m off to waste another hour on animal videos on youtube
(2) like when they fall off a windowsill but totally meant to do that. Or chase after imaginary ghosts and then stare at you like they’ve done you a favour by glaring at the dust motes, now would you please remove all the cat toys they just shoved under the couch so they can do it again?
(3) and follow you around helplessly meowing even though you just fed them an hour ago, they’re not starving… and why do they need to help with laundry or sit on your face when you’re watching TV?
It would be awfully weird living with a man like that.
Pavlov’s bell works on my cats. Best way to get them inside for the night is so bang on their food bowl. It didn’t take them very long at all to learn that it meant yummy food incoming.
Shayla, I’m fairly immune to sarcasm and many times my goof-ball brain takes things really literally. I get teased all the time about this tendency. People may have been just engaging in what they thought was good humored ribbing, my reading of this thread was that they were more talking about past posters on here who were oblivious to sarcasm too but became hostile because of it. Or that they were aware that it was sarcasm but were trying to argue that it wasn’t or something like that. Anyway, hopefully that helps.
The “x have made all the accomplishments ever, they need us!” is the same crap argument every type of bigot makes. Gee it’s like how society treats a group affects their potential for success.
@StarStorm
The name of my triangle collection.
… Also, a generally psychologically dubious term for a series of personality traits that, in a clinical setting, would be psycopathy, narcicism and machiavellism – ie, a lowkey emotions, inability to conceptualize of others as actors and a trend towards treating everyone as bricks in a real-politik game.
Googling The Dark Triad is hilarious. You get a mix of psychology related sites despairing over the apparent high percentage of people in modern society, what to do about it and with it, what it means and tips for living with or avoiding people who may have such a personality type (plus plenty that denigrate the idea as psuedo-scientific valorization of beastly archetypes + typical patriarchial thinking)
… and a whole bunch of MRA-red-pill sites that extol the virtues and go right on claiming it’s a brilliant thing, and here’s how to cultivate the mindset yourself.
I have one link that goes “The Personality of Evil” and another that goes right into
, from a site that’s quite clearly red pill with a fairly beautiful twitter feed on the right. (“Don’t trust bitches that love horses” or “Attempting to pacify a woman with reason is a futily nihilistic endeavour”)
These links are next to each other.
It’s a beautiful example of many of the subtle things that are wrong with red pillish thinking.
I didn’t link to either, because oh dear wow all the trigger warnings.
All of them.
ALL of them.
So basically what you’re saying is that the pro-dark triad sites are like Seven Habits/Artist’s Way/similar self-help crap, but for complete assholes?
Exactly
If you’re the kind of person whose line of thinking goes: “I am having trouble with my life – how do I turn into more of a psycopath, so I won’t feel neither guilt nor regret?” then, well, then I think fervent MRA’s have yet another prophet.
I actually found 7 habits useful, if you filtered out some stuff, and Artist Way was enjoyable.
… I may not be the best person to discuss self help books with.
(Although I do detect a rapidly growing market here.
Globe-trotting And Exploiting 101
Marketing Strategies for a Monster
Seven Habits of Highly Succesful Evil People
How To Be A Worse Person in Ten Easy Steps )
I’m kind of the anti-market for self-help books, but the worst that can happen from reading them is that you procrastinate and navel-gaze a lot. If people read self-help books for assholes then they become…well, I guess they become Matt Forney, and decide to pass the tradition on to others.
How To Give Your Soon-To-Be-Ex PTSD In 6 Weeks Or Less
And the sequel
It’s Not A Successful Relationship If She’s Not Crying
Oh, that’s beautifully evil.
999 Ways to Neg Someone
There’s also the updated versions – Negging, Fifth Edition, 250 New Veiled Insults About Hair (Foreword by some grump in a bar)
HTML Site Design for People With No Graphic Design Taste: Blacker Than Black and Red Is The New Orange
Writing That Rape-Manual Domination Power Fantasy Novel You Have Inside You
Hypergamy, Illustrated – It’s a book with a mirror inside…
Off topic, I’ve been seeing this quote go around on “sjw are so dumb” blogs:
“The word ‘racism’ is like ketchup. It can be put on practically anything – and demanding evidence makes you a ‘racist.’”
Thomas Sowel
Demanding evidence for ketchup makes you ketchup. Poor metaphor is poor.
Whoa whoa, the person who introduced Straughan was Justin Trottier? Founder and former president of Centre for Inquiry, Canada?
This could help explain the sexism problem in skepticism…
I admit, for a moment I had the same thoughts as breakfastman about the title of this post (was the irony clear enough? Would trolls try to claim that we can’t object to the term because we use it too? Is ironic anti-feminism different from hipster sexism?). Apparently this makes me unintelligent, tiresome, and in need of hand-holding (even though David admits he had to think about it). I’m suddenly very glad I kept my thoughts to myself.
I mean, seriously? That’s what you’re getting from this conversation?
You’d probably enjoy Literally Unbelievable.
Re cats: my Grace will follow me from room to room, purring at ever-increasing volume and occasionally trotting to catch up with me. When I sit at my computer in the morning, she digs her claws into the chair (and sometimes my legs) until I put her on my lap. Such indifference, so dark triad.
God, I can’t stand Sowell – especially that inane constrained/unconstrained vision dichotomy. Anything that relies almost entirely on “there’s two kinds of people in the world…” logic are bound to make false assumptions and disregard complexity (e.g. in this case, loving unrestrained capitalism makes you a good person – but not doing so must mean you have some kind of paternalistic, messianic egomania).
I think one reason he’s particularly popular with right-wing libertarians is the same reason Karen Straughan is popular with MRAs: being part of a social group that is regularly maligned by them, their existence is used to try and deflect criticisms of bigotry (especially tokenism). The same way Republicans use Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin to try and prove they aren’t sexist – whenever gender issues come up. It’s how he can make absurd comments about how black culture is actually redneck culture or that affirmative action doesn’t work or how racism is, like, totally overblown, man. Oh, and be absolutely dismissive of any diagnosis involving autism – ’cause he may as well shit on people with certain psychological conditions along with ethnic minorities (mostly of the one he belongs to) and anyone who even slightly cares about making the world a slightly better place (’cause, y’know, the free market somehow fixes everything…”eventually”…).
@auggz, that must be this year’s answer to last year’s “Morgan Freeman doesn’t approve of black history month!”
ARGH!!! Don’t get me started on that one either…
Emilygoddess: you are not tiresome, breakfastman is not tiresome. The “why are you writing things this way instead of this way” is tiresome.
I ascribe to Molly Ivins theory about “two kinds of people”.
People who think there are two kinds of people, and people who do not.
I wish I could find the quote. I miss Molly!
The Dark Triad only generates success based on the person’s ability to misuse the trust and empathy of others around them. It’s an eminently parasitic personality type.
= she is demonic.
But she’s a cat, so naturally. :P
zippydoo – best dark triad EVER.
See, I didn’t read it that way. Breakfastman didn’t say “you shouldn’t have written that”; he(?) asked “am I the only one who feels this way”, which seems like a perfectly innocent way to start that kind of conversation, and allows for the possibility that one is in the wrong. I read it as “does this choice of words have the potential to be harmful”, which is a conversation we have all the time in the comments.
How the heck would art be dead?
Also, what’s wrong with cats not giving a shit? I like that my cat doesn’t need my attention 100% of the time like the dog does. When he wants attention it’s either for food or because he wants to be close to me. He’ll come up on the couch and sit on the arm, often bumping his head against mine. And we all know in cat language that means affection.
You mean that racism is pervasive to the degree that many things can be accurately described as supportive of white supremacy? Preposterous.
Also, if there’s anyone who lacks the evidence for their position, it’s the racist “liberal” douchebag who thinks that racism will go away once anti-racist discourse goes away.
Oh, speaking of cats, Tawny here makes the cutest meows ever – even though she’s not very good at making them. Right now she’s resting under my left arm as I type.