So-called Men Going Their Own Way need to really GO. This video shows them how.
So I get periodic visits here from hostile and uninformed visitors demanding to know just what I have against those Men’s Rights activist-adjacent fellows who have declared themselves to be Men Going Their Own Way. Surely, they sniff, I can’t be really opposed to men living the lives they choose to live, independent of women? Don’t feminists encourage women to be similarly independent? You go, girls, and all that?
As a fellow calling himself Praetorian wrote:
Why are women so bitter towards men going their own way, without them
“John,” meanwhile, thought he detected some hypocrisy:
So, if a woman says she does not need a man in her life, she is seen as a strong independent woman. If a man says he does not need a woman in his life, he is seen as someone who has a deep hostility towards and/or profound distrust of women.
How convenient and how logical…………….
Happpily, the commenters here always put these misguided souls straight: we don’t object , in principle, to men “going their own way,” if that’s what they want to do.
But in practice, the men who classify themselves as Men Going Their Own Way don’t go anywhere; they stick around and stink the place up with their raging misogyny.
If you go to MGTOWforums or any other popular MGTOW hangout, you’ll discover that the regulars there don’t spend much time talking about the fabulous lives they’re leading on their own — the things they’re learning, the hobbies they’re pursuing, the experiences they’re having.
Nope. They spend virtually all their time and energy taking about women, and how awful they are. The typical MGTOWer spends more time thinking about women on any given day than the president of Planned Parenthood does. And what they think about women is awful. Just go through my MGTOW posts here for example after example.
You want to see some men who are really going their own way? Watch the video at the top of this post. These are guys enjoying themselves and not giving a shit what anyone thinks. They are AWESOME.
That’s what Men Going Their Own Way should look like. And I’m not even joking.
NOTE: I think I’ve posted this video before. I don’t care. Some people might not have seen it. EVERYONE MUST SEE IT.
Posted on February 3, 2014, in awesome, hypocrisy, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, misogyny, YouTube and tagged mgtow, misogyny. Bookmark the permalink. 566 Comments.
No danger of that! :D
Ugh, yes. He started saying something like “now I know you’re going to say you hate men, that we’re terrible, and you’re always angry…”
I was quite calm and amused actually, but he wouldn’t let go of that argument.
Misogynists never grasp the difference between “hating all men” and “hating misogynistic behaviour and attitudes that are exhibited by some men and women.”
I think the MGTOWers are waiting on us to shriek ‘Nooooooooooooo …. we need you .. please don’t goooooo!’ and it ‘ain’t happening so they get more and more wound up that no one really cares. It’s almost like some kind of empty threat to get a reaction from people.
Hell YOU made the choice to do it so run along and bloody get on with it. Some of my girl friends have decided to go it alone and can find hobbies and interests to keep them amused and seem really rather content but not this lot. They’re only happy when they tear women to pieces. No wonder they can’t move on because deep down they can ‘t, don’t really want to or are as miserable as sin on their own. If it’s such a great thing why are they continually moaning about it. Get a hobby. GET A LIFE. Bozos.
@kittehs
I should have known when you said that you’d link to mr K XD
@Xen
Blah. Sorry to hear that guy’s been bugging you :/
Wow. Talk about strawmen.
Ps: Are you in the manboobz group on deviant art? Not that you have to be, if you don’t want to, it’s just fun :3
I resent that, among all the other things I do not like, I very much resent mansplainers who carry on both sides of the argument.
I guess someone who likes to argue with himself will never be lonely. If that means he eventually stops talking to other people then hey, bonus for the rest of us.
There’s a manboobz group? I think I shall join :)
@Xen
Yay! (the hivemind has expanded!!!) Do you need a link?
Yeah.
@Xen
here it is :3
Ugh really? I didn’t know that about Bly. So there’s been no men’s movement that doesn’t make women out to be the villain? I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
On the surface, the Iron John thing didn’t seem harmful. I mean, I knew some pagan/Wiccan men who would have an all men camping retreat where yeah, they’d go off in the woods to commune with what they saw as the masculine part of nature. I know some of them read Iron John too. But from what I understood at the time, they didn’t rage against women.
Muhahahaha! The hivemind shall expand indeed.
Reading here again after a long time. Ran across this comment on your blog about the “man going his own way” who calls his blog Omega Virgin Revolt/The Black Pill….
King Kong | June 4, 2013 at 4:10 pm
NOTE: Omega Virgin Revolt does not in any way reflect the views of the manoshpere or the dark enlightenment. He is an embarrassment and should be treated as such. He is a liberal, an egalitarian of the schizophernic variety. It pains me that you give a voice to this troll, putting him in the blog roll alongside great voices of the dark enlightenment.
—-
What the hell is “the dark enlightenment”?!
Has Futrelle done a take down of it?
Muahaha, xen is unable to resist the power of our DA group!
Marie
I am nothing if not predictable! :D
Idiots with their heads up their arses, at a guess.
Huh…that song is in Spanish. Wonder where they’re from. Also the song is awesome.
Pretty much. This FAQ sheet gives it a bit more credit than it deserves, in my opinion, but it does at least give a flavour of what it’s about: an ‘anti-democratic, racially charged, anti-modern, authoritarian political movement’ that nevertheless somehow claims to be ‘anti-fascist’.
http://www.vocativ.com/12-2013/dark-enlightenment-creepy-internet-movement-youd-better-take-seriously/
@kittehserf
If you go to Firefox’s addon manager and go to the formatting toolbar options, you can turn on the “Use systematic HTML” checkbox. This will make it so the strikethrough button works here.
Like soUgh I need a shower after reading that article. So pretty much the Dark Enlightenment is people awakening to the idea that they don’t like “political correctness”, that racial inequality is explained by “well DNA and such”, and that humanism is like, totally a bummer. That ain’t new, ya losers! And nice MTG cards, definitely doesn’t make you look drunk on your own ego at all. My single quibble with the article writer is that he calls the members of this movement “smart” — they’re the same old type of people who think intelligence is solely made up of using weirdly stiff formal language online, bragging about their STEM field job, and declaring themselves Rational and Logical when they couldn’t logic their way out of a paper bag. If they were smart, they wouldn’t actually believe any of that garbage.
So in other words, MGTOW behave like feminists.
MGTOWs try to dismantle the social gender roles that harm all genders and advocate for rape victims, abuse victims, and oppressed groups? Cool! They sound like great people.
From the Mencius Moldbug card:
Thomas Carlyle? Ooh no, how many international statues and state laws have I violated by running around with a copy of one of his e-books on my hard drive for the last decade?
I always worry so much when people describe any writer such terms as above, but it makes a lot of sense that someone who is into Carlyle would talk that way.
Shayla: My “favorite” is when they say things like “HBD, broadly conceived, is simply a fact.”
Human genetic diversity is a fact. That fact has to then jump through several flaming hoops of wrong (racial differences are larger than intergroup differences, culture/developmental plasticity is insignificant compared to genetics, one race is therefore superior, and so political equality is terrible) to get to the conclusion they want people to accept as “simply a fact”.
It reminds me of Biblical literalists who declare the word of the bible true and off limits to further inquiry.
Sam isn’t even trying now.
So RoK is making fun of Rebecca Sparrow for miscarrying…
@leftwingfox, Yeah exactly, they’re going with “Z is true because A is true,” asking everyone to just accept B through Y are all true and a logical progression too. It’s like when some people huff in frustration, “why can’t you just accept men and women are different!” when what they’re actually wanting you to accept is that the differences are significant, we should base strict roles and prejudices off them, and that women “just happen” to be worse in most aspects.
Yeah, that was what I saw as the main problem with it, too. Generally, I think the writer takes DEers more seriously than they deserve (although – are the MtG cards supposed to be cheerleading for the DE or satirising it? One of them draws attention to the incoherence of the term ‘anarchofacist’, for example). I mean, it treats it as this sinister, lurking menace when, as far as I can tell, it doesn’t really exist much beyond the grubbier corners of the internet. Even the MRM can chase up a handful of ‘activists’ for meatspace demonstrations. Sometimes.
Also, I don’t think that the word ‘pretentious’ is featured in the article even once, and if I had to describe the DE in one word, that’d be it. I didn’t notice before, but that diagram in the article identifies some of the more preening, self-regarding members of the Manosphere (Roosh, Roissy, Fidelwhatsisface) as being DE-aligned. Figures.
For some reason, Dark Enlightenment makes me think of pseudointellectual Juggalos.
Oh god, those Dark Enlightenment guys … they’re like malevolent spirits in some morality play, pointing at the US’s foundational sin and going, not remember! but yes please could we have some more.
Jesus.
Basic human decency, how does it work
” So pretty much the Dark Enlightenment is people awakening to the idea that they don’t like “political correctness”, that racial inequality is explained by “well DNA and such”, and that humanism is like, totally a bummer. ”
So, they’re exactly like garden variety douchebags.
I think mgtow is all a bunch of hype. I think the so called “mgtow movement” is an internet fad. The mgtow thing may just a handful of guys on the internet wishing they could be free of women. Smaller yet would be men who actually do go their own way. It is absolutely ridiculous and vile the amount f misogyny on some of these websites. So what some of these guys might of been hurt by woman in a relationship. I mean who hasn’t been hurt or rejected (male or female) at some point in their lives? The main thing is you learn to forgive and heal and if you need some therapy that’s all the more better. I agree with the several of the commenters here, if most of these guys were going their own way, they would not be spending time commenting hate for women on the internet.
@Ladiezombie who longs for the days when men were in the woods banging their drums, I just saw this the other day. It is a documentary where a filmmaker (a woman) was allowed to film a mens group. It may interest you. http://aboutmenfilm.com/?utm_source=Distrify&utm_medium=film%20page&utm_campaign=Film-7774
@ manboobz I have been a lurker here for a while and felt like commenting on this silly mgtow fad. I request a welcome packet .lol You guys rock.
Wait, how can this Omega Virgin Revolt guy be part of this ultra-reactionary “dark enlightenment” and be liberal and “egalitarian” at the same time? The movement itself rejects the pursuit of equality and fairness for an oligarchical hierarchy! The cognitive dissonance is amazing…. It does comfort me to know that these folks probably won’t have any lasting influence on society and if they do get into power somehow, they’ll be overthrown fairly quickly.
For some reason, Dark Enlightenment makes me think of pseudointellectual Juggalos.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought this. The reality makes about as much sense.
Gah. That first line was supposed to be a quote.
@Mnemosyne, my guess? They believe in “equality” according to what one has to offer, and since women and PoC just naturally have less to offer, it’s totally fair for them to end up at the bottom again and again. Kinda like the people who say the US is doing just fine because we offer “equal opportunity” to everyone, and if poor people and PoC aren’t making it to the top, it’s because of some deficiency on their part.
@auggz:
I wouldn’t be surprised if the guys at RoK thought she was a murderer for that reason. It’s a sad thing that occurs when the embryo has so many problems, that it isn’t viable in the slightest. Poor Rebecca Sparrow… :(
Myoo, thanks for the Firefox info! :)
On MGTOW: As an asexual, I can’t help comparing them to aromantic asexuals. There there is a group who do not seek out romantic relationships, because they just do not feel romantic attraction. And so, with that time not seeking that out, they spend it not yelling and screaming about other genders, but just… living their lives. They go out with friends, they establish strong friendships, they pour time and energy into hobbies and work, crafting things to put out into the world or just to entertain themselves. Even the ones who are extremely introverted and would love nothing more than to be up in their rooms making things do that. They don’t devote all their time to fuming at people in relationships or telling them that they don’t need that stuff, they just live their lives.
So MGTOWs aren’t that ideal, but they aren’t even like the number of men, women, and non-binary individuals who (for whatever reason) need to take a break from romantic or sexual relationships. People who are recovering from abusive relationships and need some time to build themselves, people who have found themselves too immature to be a good partner, or who want to have a better sense of themselves before they put themselves out there. All sorts of people who unlike aromantics, want romantic relationships, but are opting out for now because it’s just not right for them at the moment. Similarly, these people just go about building hobbies and living lives, seeking out therapy if they need it, seeking out the comfort of friends if that comforts. They rebuild and introspect and sometimes they might feel lonely or take relief into their own hands, but similarly they don’t spend all their time whining and complaining about how mean those of their ideal romantic gender are.
So not even that, maybe we can find parity in women who have left the dating pool in bitterness. Who have found recent dates to be depressing and soul-crushing and have given up on love in 30-minute sitcom cliche style. Who assume, because of social messaging that they are “past their prime” and are never going to find love again. These women may not even exist outside of television shows. Surely here will there be kindred spirits. But even here, most of these women who are “done with dating” just go on and do their own thing. Use it as an excuse to pick up a hobby. They don’t spend their time going to pools of younger men and yelling at them that they are sluts for not sleeping with them. They don’t swap stories on the uselessness of men in general. Instead they just sort of build themselves up and most of their humor is self-deprecating.
I even think of my uncle who is heterosexual and not opposed to romantic relationships, but he’s built a life alone and he feels it suits him. He doesn’t whine about women or tell misogynist stories, he just pours himself into his gardening and workouts and life.
And that’s the central tragedy of MGTOWs. They are so busy obsessing about hating women for “pushing them out” through the unforgivable crime of not sending nubile young women to be their sex slaves that they forget to get a fucking life. To actually do something in this world. And it’s why their protestations will always ring hollow.
That’s unfair to Juggalos.
Cerebrus:
I agree with you. I just broke up with the bf and have decided to spend quite some time single and rebuilding myself now that I’m starting to gain confidence and realize what I can do and don’t have someone undermining that.
There are so many great things out there. I’m frequently shocked at how much people sometimes settle into their lives in spite of having low satisfaction with them. There’s always something you can take up to make you happier. whether that’s a sport, writing, music, another language, nature walks, reading a favorite novel, volunteering at a local animal shelter, etc etc. Life offers so much. And this is coming from someone who, many years ago, was suicidal. I am so happy I am still alive.
Dark Enlightenment are just a bunch of Randroids….err…I mean Objectivist, who couldn’t complete the first four chapters of Fountainhead and instead of playing out their standard Randriodian Atlas Shrugged fantasy have instead chosen to play the Matrix fantasy.
They remind of a bunch of Cartmans.
I cant get through Ayn Rand’s writings. I always felt uncomfortable with her portrayal of women.
I read Atlas Shrugged cover to cover a few years back – even the goes on forever “Your minds! Your stupid, stupid minds!” speech that everyone skips. It did strange and uncomfortable things to my mind, and I was, or thought I was, prepared. If I had read it in high school, it would have done some real damage. I have described it as the Necronomicon of political science fiction. I do not wonder at those who have read it and been. . . altered.
Atlas Shrugged is the only book I got so angry with I threw it across the room. Other people have told me that they have thrown Atlas Shrugged, before I even bring up my own experience. It is apparently an entire community of people.
Just about all of Rand’s garbage is a prurient adolescent revenge fantasy, and it plays on that part of the human psyche. And when you are young, your mind is filled with all sorts of weird shit, and Rand gives validation to the weird shit most of us put away when we grow up.
Many MRA’s consider themselves Objectivist, I see the connection in much their internet bullshit.
I read it in 9th grade, along with all of her books (ALL of them. Even her shitty plays). *sigh* yes, I was a randroid. And yes, it did make me pretty sociopathic. It took me forever to realize her ideas weren’t very well thought out, and pretty awful.
I read all her books/plays/etc 7th – 9th grade. Not just hers, but her other peeps too. Leonard Peikoff and a few others.
So how did you make it out of “Rand’s World” and back into reality?
They don’t seem self-aware enough to realize that having a life is how one is able to establish a meaningful relationship with another person.
I think it was just slowly realizing the stuff she said was messed up or inaccurate, one thing at a time. There was a point where I was agreeing with her economic ideas morally but not economically (basically, taxes and regulations are evil, even if society falls apart without them).
I think the first ideas I didn’t like were the ones on gender. According to her, women love submitting, and need it to be happy. For this, they can’t be president, because president is the most powerful job ever (she literally said any woman who said she wanted to be president would be too insane to do the job right anyways). They also secretly want it, but feminism and religion make women ashamed. That’s why it’s totally cool when the male protagonist rapes the female protagonist. It’s not rape at all then!
Also other objectivists were douchey. I remember one forum, where someone asked “If A steals from B, do A’s grandkids have to give it back to B’s grandkids?”. All the answers were yes. Then the OP was like “wouldn’t that mean whites would have to give back everything to the native Americans, and some to blacks and Asians?”. Suddenly all the answers turned into BS about how other races weren’t using their land for anything valuable, so it was OK to take it, or enslave them. Remember: freedom is the best thing ever, which is why Rand is great. But if you use your freedoms to do different things, you’re a savage who deserved genocide.
(Also Rand called native Americans savages anyways. She used the same argument).
@grumpycatisagirl
O_o Now I’m wondering how I”d react if I read it. (not that I have the desire to, just curious.) I haven’t ever done the ‘throw book across the room’ thing, but there are some tv episodes I’m pretty sure I would have thrown if they were books…
@auggz
Well, props to you for realizing her shit, even if it did take a bit :) The only book I read of hers was Anthem, can’t remember much about it other than I found the end much boring-er than the beginning.
Um, wow O_o Her ideas on women are so fucked up… I mean, more fucked up than I already assumed.
O_o How does the disconnect work, between those ideas? I am confused.
@catgirl
I’m thrilled to hear that
Re: MGTOW
The problem with them, as with much of the MRM (aside from the raging misogyny and temper tantrums) is that it’s so ill defined that no two MGTOWers have the same definition. Some of them define it as going GALT, some of them define it as seperatism, some of them define it as not going to women for validation (and are stupid enough to think that all other hetero men are unable to do this because of medication), some of them define it as not wanting to be in romantic relationships with women etc. Cynical me thinks it’s so that they can bolster the numbers of their idiotic movement by laying claim to men that want nothing to do with them. The more honest me has to concede that it’s more likely due to idiocy and complete lack of organisational skills and community.
If you’ve read one, you’ve read them all. Her writing style is awful. It’s basically the most generic characters and story ever, but formed around her philosophy. I don’t think she understood how to be interesting.
Anthem was written in a weird way. Like imitation Bible style. The rest were like a high schooler trying to be dramatic and edgy.
Well Rand first shitted out Anthem as a teenager…like I said “adolescent revenge fantasy”. Ayn Rand is a tragedy, not someone people should want to emulate.
Yep. One of my annoyances with Atlas Shrugged is that it seemed like she seemed to say everything she wanted to say in the first chapter and then she kept on saying it over and over again for over 1000 pages in case I hadn’t gotten the point yet. And it boiled down to, “You, reader, are awful and stupid and I am superior to you because I hate altruism.” Not a fun book to spend time with.
At least Anthem is short.
Ummm..excuse me? I may not have gotten that right. You may care to explain….
@grumpycatisagirl
O_o You’d figure she’d space out the message, at least. On the bright side, I now completely feel like I’m not missing anything…
Basically, you know how when you were a kid playing super hero games on the playground, and there was that one douche who picked “super everything” and wouldn’t play fair? That is Ayn Rand’s writing.
I’m glad to say I’d never heard of Rand before I started reading here.
Cerberustheasexual (nice new handle, btw!) – great step-by-step reduction of how MGTOW aren’t, and are just a bunch of whining losers.
It’s not even that there are other things in life to make up for lack of romantic success – there are other things in life, period. Joy and pleasure in life are not dependent on whether one’s partnered (when being partnered is what one wants).
That’s one more thing these wankers don’t seem to get. They seem to think life’s either fucking a barely-legal-if-that sex slave or raging on the internet because they aren’t. There’s nothing else.
But the kid would also have to talk for hours at a time without pausing to take a breath or let anyone talk, then push another kid into a ditch and laugh at his broken leg.
Randroids are just horrible people. I can see why her philosophy appeals to teenagers who’re going through a “fuck you, world, for not realizing how amazing I am” phase, but adults really have no excuse for that shit.
Sorry, but I need to rant a little.
I truly believe that Ayn Rand was a sociopath, or at the very least, malignantly narcissistic. Several years ago, I read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged (I read Anthem in High School) just so I couldn’t be accused of not reading her works when I criticized her. This is not the “philosophy” of a person who has empathy or even common human decency.
Altruism, which Rand despised, is not an unnatural state in humans and other animals, but neither is selfishness which she so admired. I know what Rand thought was altruism but I submit that she misunderstood it. Altruism does not necessarily entail self-sacrifice to the detriment of the person. For instance, if you have only $5 for lunch but you give that $5 to someone who has no money and no food, you will likely not starve to death. According to Rand, that was an unacceptable act of altruism and that the moral (coughcough) thing to do would be to keep that money for yourself because the other person’s lack of money and/or food was their problem alone.
Some Randroids insist that Rand had no problem with altruism itself, she just didn’t want the State to force it on people. I disagree. Rand found altruism personally repugnant.
She was also a megalomaniac to the point where it even put Freud to shame. Her followers (jokingly called ‘The Collective’) could never disagree with her, even on a minor issue. They could not read any other philosophy besides Objectivism and excommunications where common.
Her novels, particularly Atlas Shrugged, try to make heroes out of two dimensional, cardboard cutouts of people. Both novels make heroes out of people who commit mass murder just because their own personal ideals are not honored. It’s no wonder that the woman who wrote them idolized a sadistic killer of children.
Okay, I’ll shut up now. But here, y’all might enjoy this. A comic strip biography of Rand’s life!
http://activatecomix.com/162-1-1.comic
I really think she would have been a lot of fun at parties. Except not.
@theladyzombie
…I did not know that about her novels :/ It’s like everytime someone talks about her I find out more icky stuff about her. (I already heard the ‘idolized killer’ part.)
Why? People with staunch moral views are fun at parties. I enjoy getting three shots under the tipsy limit and listening to them explain every single thing in the world. It makes me feel oddly happy inside, that someone can be such a certain rock of foundational strength, utterly convinced that the world is Just Like So.
@fibinachi
Probably easier when you can drink XD On a completely unrelated note* I bet my stepmom will be much more bearable to hang around once I hit the drinking age here. (she’s nowhere near rand-levels of douchiness, but there are similiarities.)
*blatant lie is blatant.
Marie – in Atlas Shrugged, John Galt vowed earlier in his life to “stop the engine of the world.” When he finally withdrew to an enclave in the Colorado Rockies and began to take who he considered producers and leaders with him, he knew he was condemning the rest of society to die since society would crumple without its thinkers and doers. He actually wanted that. His whole 60 page speech was him basically taunting everyone about their imminent demise and how they should have been nicer to him.
Never mind that this scenario would never (and could never) happen. It just illustrates how Rand thought of the world. And it ain’t pretty.
Well, I guess that does make it a lot easier, yeah.
That’s a definition of fun I haven’t heard before, Fibi. Don’t think I’ll be trying it, though! :D