Apparently some of the folks at A Voice for Men are afraid that, amidst all the eulogies for one of the greatest freedom fighters of our age, people may lose sight of the fact that Nelson Mandela was, in fact, a man. Not a man in the fallible human being sense, as he was and all of us are, but a man in the not a lady sense.
So AVFM Managing Editor Dean Esmay felt it necessary to remind the world of this fact:
The Horseless Hun decided to rub it in a bit:
Kukla, meanwhile, wasn’t all that impressed.
This, again, is a site that thinks of itself as the locus of the “Men’s Human Rights Movement.” It’s also a place where the death of a real human rights icon becomes just another excuse to talk shit about women.
@ LBT – He gave a big speech at the Sydney Opera House forecourt. I faked being sick to get out of school and took off to see it. I knew it was kind of nerdy to skip school to see a political speech, but I also knew I’d regret it forever if I didn’t.
There’s a picture here. As you can see, it was pretty packed.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/photos-e6frg6n6-1225996392278?page=15
It depends on how you’re defining racism, really. If you have subconscious biases but honestly believe in racial equality with your entire conscious mind, are you racist?
Some people say yes, others say no. There are definitions of the word racist which include pretty much every human being, and there are definitions where almost nobody qualifies.
It’s kind of frustrating, but there just isn’t any consensus on what the word actually means. Makes it hard to argue over whether a given thing is racist or not, because people often end up talking past each other.
PS: I normally just lurk here. But the definition of racism is kind of a pet issue for me, because I’ve seen it derail plenty of otherwise lovely conversations into irritating arguments.
PPS: Don’t know how to blockquote, but this works on other parts of the net so…
PPPS: Kinda bugs me that one of these awful people uses the name Kukla. That’s a the name of a character in an RPG I like, and I know of another person online by that name who isn’t terrible.
It’s fucking surreal. Even though he was almost 70 years older than me, I never even fathomed the idea of a world without Madiba. We actually came through SA during Apartheid when we immigrated to Africa, and I can still remember the weirdness of having to use Coloured facilities. Madiba was not perfect by any means, but he remains one of the greatest human beings to have ever lived, and the fact that people think De Klerk (with no disrespect meant to him) deserves more credit for ending Apartheid than Madiba, Bishop Tutu, Steve Biko etc. is fucking sickening.
I don’t know that I would say there aren’t non-white racists, but I’d also say it’s not as uncommon as all that. I also don’t think race/feminism is anywhere near resolved (just look at “solidarity is for white women” and the ways in which karnythia is marginalised even as white feminists quote her writing.
I would accept the idea that all of us have racist thoughts and behaviours (even the POC, because our culture forces them on us, and we have to fight them, no matter who we are), and have to work to recognise/eradicate them.
Non-violent? The guy who refused to be released from prison because he wouldn’t forswear the use of violence?
I would accept that Mandela was a man working for peace, but to call him non-violent does him a great disservice.
Kleptonetic ,
Except for the men are pigs comment I agree its rarely feminist saying those things .Its MRA dudes and conservative women .Its not usually phrased as “men can’t multitask” though .Its women are better at it as some sort of proof women have “spaghetti brains’ and men have comapartmentalised brains.Men are more logical and ‘direct”(straight forward) in that sense.
With “men are less able to resist sex” that is the reason women need to take responsibility by dressing modestly .And put out 24/7 whether she wants to or not if she’s married.
They don’t view those things as inferior just how they are hard wired as masculine men.
The idea that “men are less able to resist sex” is based on the patriarchal assumption that men are sexually assertive.
The idea that “men are pigs” is not based on the observation that men are inherently reprehensible but rather the patriarchal assumption that men are the only group capable of being seen as “brutish.” It is merely an exceptional case of an inherently positive attribute (positive because male aggression is glorified by the patriarchy) ascribed to men being seen in a more negative light.
And the idea that “men can’t multi-task” is based on the assumption that men aren’t like women, who are naturally inclined to do mother-like things, one of which is multi-tasking.
So none of those instances of “sexism against men” are misandry.
Mandela, like Gandhi and MLK, is a pacifist as long as douchebags need to use them as clubs to beat up on other activists.
“It is merely an exceptional case of an inherently positive attribute (positive because male aggression is glorified by the patriarchy) ascribed to men being seen in a more negative light.”
Negative? Only in part. It’s also a convenient excuse for aggressive behavior towards women and “lesser” classes of men.
Yeah that’s one of them .Except they don’t say men CAN’T multi task .Really there is nothing a woman can do that a man cant . Its just women are “better at it.” And yes that’s supposedly the reason she can juggle the crying baby ,while making him a sandwich ,while doing a load of laundrey while talking on the phone.
But the fact of the matter is women are not better at multi tasking than men .All people are better at focussing one task at a time period. And there is nothing about the female that makes her any more succesful in trying to juggle several task “at once” .Its not even a sensible term .It more like rapidly moving from one task to another .
They want to claim sexual aggresiveness as a masculine trait and women are “passive and submissive” because that makes them feel ‘manly.” Like the conqueror in a ‘good way.” “Me man you woman.”
But its funny when it comes to aggression in the form of violence suddenly women are “just as violent as men.”
To be fair, I say “men are pigs” all the time, but only when I’m stuck cleaning up after them (*is the only woman in the household, and all the men work shift, which somehow means they can’t help with household chores, or yardwork*). I say “women are slobs” if I’m stuck cleaning up after a bunch of women.
Oh, I was just referencing that stereotype, not saying that I believe it. =P
But anyway yeah . Its pretty pathetic they need to say a “great male human being.” Isn’t that a little childish ? And like David pointed out as if their is a shortage of male heroes who have received acknowledgement though out history .Like it needs to be noted hes a “male human.”
Its one thing to say “he was a great man.” But isn’t “male human being ” a little obvious that he is using this great mans accomplishments and his sacrifices to make some sort of jab at women ? I think the great “male human being” Mr. Mandela would not be impressed with that.
Oh I know (I assumed anyway) I was just taking your thought and running with it .LOL!!
I want to know too ..how do women try to imitate “men” ?
And as someone else pointed out if those same women think of men as evil and inferior ,why in the hell would they want to try and imitate them ?
Hi, Philippe Saner, have an Official Complimentary Welcome Package!
I wonder if Nelson Mandela liked to look at landscape photography, that being a thing male human beings like to do and all.
LOL, katz!
How’ve you been? I haven’t seen you post for a few days.
Got to disagree with you, there. There are plenty of white people trying their damnedest to be aware of their white privilege and to not just not be actively racist but to be positive allies to PoC. But when you live and were raised in a racist society as a member of the privileged race, you absorb racism with the air you breathe and it is there in assumptions you don’t even realise you make.
And for racism within feminism, just follow any of the discussions on intersectionality and see for yourself how bad it can be.
I’m fine. Got a houseguest.
Cool, hope you’re having fun!
Ugh, remember the “It’s the intersection of white skin and gender!” conversation? Ye gods.
I don’t remember that and I’m afraid to ask …
Thank you very much.
I don’t think you have to belong to a privileged race for that to happen. To quote a Tumblr post…