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Men's Rights Redditors try to call out misogyny, fail (BONUS BIGOTRY: The misogyny caller-outer posts to the White Rights subreddit)

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So my post yesterday pointed out a rather extravagantly misogynistic post by the Men’s Rights Activist behind the blog Men Against Misandry. If you read it, you probably remember the money quote from his post, which he was so proud of he posted separately on Facebook:

If women sucked dick half as well as they suck at sports there would be no more divorces in the great US of A.

Today a new commenter here on Man Boobz, evidently an MRA irritated that I had quoted his comrade, posted a link to a discussion on the Men’s Rights subreddit that went up a couple of hours ago, and that specifically disavowed this quotation, declaring “This is NOT who we are, and this is NOT Okay.” The thread, when last I checked, had gotten nearly 800 upvotes from the Men’s Rights regulars.

I thought to myself, “wow, a rare moment of self-reflection, and self-policing, from MRAs!”

But then I started reading the comments.

Many of the Men’s Rights regulars seemed less bothered by the reference to blow jobs in itself than by the implication that better blow jobs would lower the divorce rate. Because, you see, most divorces are initiated by women for nefarious womanly reasons.

As JoshTheAspie put it:

JoshtheAspie 14 points 1 hour ago (16|2)  ... leaving aside any offense or outrage... what he's saying doesn't even make sense.  80% of divorces are initiated by women. How would them being better at sexually pleasuring husbands reduce the amount of divorce?      permalink     source     save     give gold     hide child comments  [–]1standarduser -1 points 1 hour ago (2|3)  happier men make better husbands which makes the women happier.  This is only assuming the 20 minutes of sucking is a lesser burden than 24hrs of an unhappy partner.

Meanwhile, here’s one of the top comments in the thread, and the discussion it spawned. Notice the reaction to sad_woman, after she offers a criticism of uberpower’s “argument.” Also, notice uberpower’s own reaction.

uberpower 30 points 1 hour ago (35|5)  Divorces will decrease when men's finances get gender-neutral protection.  Remove the divorce incentive for women, increase two parent families, increase the success of our nation's children.      permalink     source     save     give gold     hide child comments  [–]Pecanpig 6 points 1 hour ago (6|0)  The former would probably cause the latter.      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]sad_woman -16 points 44 minutes ago (4|20)  you people are seriously fucking warped. this sentiment is more offensive than the one in op's pic. i gotta go take a fucking shower after stepping into this place, christ      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]RZRtv 6 points 41 minutes ago (7|1)  gb2SRS plz.      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]uberpower 2 points 23 minutes ago (5|3)  Aww, you don't want to lose the right to entice a man then dump him for half of everything he's got?  Is your ex-man paying for your shower sweetie?      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]JimiJons 1 point 7 minutes ago (1|0)  Nothing about what he said is warped or offensive in the slightest. Perhaps you read it wrong, and simply reacted in an extraordinarily unwarranted manner.

If you’re puzzled by RZRtv’s cryptic comment, he is suggesting that sad_woman go back to the ShitRedditSays subreddit, a subreddit devoted to calling out various bigotries on Reddit, and which is regarded by most of Reddit with the same sort of wild-eyed horror and contempt with which Men’s Rightsers regard Man Boobz.

Knucker2, meanwhile, thought that the dick-sucking reference detracted from Men Against Misandry’s other truly valuable points:

knucker2 6 points 1 hour ago (7|1)  I agree. I think the phrase "its offensive* is an extremely weak criticism. It's more accurate and more persuasive to criticize this post for being unconstructive, intentionally inflammatory, and poorly communicating his point.  People are going to get distracted by the dick sucking reference and ignore the valuable points about double standards. If you are going to be inflammatory, then at least do it in a way that keeps people on topic. This is distracting.

As you may recall from my post yesterday, the main point of Men Against Misandry’s “argument” was that women suck at sports. Indeed, the title of his post was “Gender inequality in sports: male athletes paid more. (HINT: women’s sports suck)”

And then there was this enlightening exchange, featuring none other than A Voice for Men’s TyphonBlue and her signature brand of double-reverse whammy logic:

Young_Ocelot 4 points 1 hour ago (6|2)  Holy crap this looks really bad...I hope no one takes that and blanket applies it to the mindset of all men.      permalink     source     save     give gold     hide child comments  [–]typhonblue 1 point 1 hour ago (4|3)  Only idiots would extrapolate this to all men.  Now if the gender reverse was published in huffpo by a feminist writer... or similar sentiments were repeated over and over by numerous women... or if it was expressed to applause on a mainstream daytime tv show...

First of all, Young_Ocelot — who seems a bit naive even for a young ocelot — WHY WOULD YOU THINK ANYONE WOULD ASSUME ALL MEN THINK THIS WAY?! No one thinks that all men are raving misogynistic douchebags. However, there are quite a few people who think that a significant portion of Men’s Rights Activists are. For evidence, I would suggest reading, well, this post, or any of my other posts, or even the thread you were posting in.

And Typhon, poor deluded Typhon, do you really think that if someone wrote a HuffPost column arguing that if men were half as good at eating pussy as they were at sucking at sports the divorce rate would drop, they’d get applause? That doesn’t even make the slightest bit of sense.

And even if you adjust the “gender swap” a bit it doesn’t work. If men were half as good at eating pussy as they were at, I dunno, failing to ask for directions when they get lost while driving, there would be no divorce? Huh?

If Men’s Rights Activists were half as good at actually calling out their own misogyny as they are at loudly denying their misogyny while at the same time saying blatently misogynistic shit, well, I might have to shut down this blog.

EDITED TO ADD: BONUS BIGOTRY! The guy who posted the “this is not who we are” post to the Men’s Rights subreddit, our old nemesis Chris3992m,  also recently posted this in the White Rights subreddit. When he was called out for this on AgainstMensRights, he explained that “I only post when there are real issues of white discrimination.”

He also believes that “[m]ost whites during the slave era were actually treated WORSE than the slaves. They had to work for the slaves, because they couldn’t be bought and sold and were considered useless by slaveowners.”

EDITED TO ADD AGAIN: Since I wrote this post, more Men’s Rights Redditors have posted comments more directly disavowing the misogyny of the original “blowjob” quote. If they are sincere about trying to remove the stain of misogyny from the Men’s Rights movement, I would suggest that they also try to convince the subreddit’s mods to remove the links to blatantly misogynistic and hateful websites like A Voice for Men from the subreddit’s sidebar, and that they do a better job of policing the misogyny that pervades the subreddit, many examples of which can be found by looking through the Man Boobz archives for Reddit here.

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lana
lana
6 years ago

There are male and female genes ? You mean like at the Gap?

vaiyt
6 years ago

Cargo cult science at its finest.

Ally S
6 years ago

My rule of thumb: the more self-assured a person sounds, the more full of shit they must be. Not that it’s hard to tell in this case.

Dunning-Kruger effect!

lana
lana
6 years ago

@Iana
I don’t know the source or specifics of 72% of divorces initiated by women factoid, because I don’t particularly care about divorce statistics, but, wow, it clearly haunts the dreams of a lot of MRA types.

Booked,

I don’t care either except I have to look it up because I have been hearing it spewed for several years now and I like knowing its not pulled out their ass.Like women making a profit on divorce(cash and prizes) while men sleep under a bridge is a lie.

But yes. They are red eye rage filled bursting vessels in their necks because women aren’t legally forced to stay with them .Which is the only way they could keep one with them.

They have to actually posses some traits that are interesting or endearing to a woman for her to be attracted to him besides 5 inches hard and they don’t have it .So they make up conspiracy theories that she is after his 40 K a year .

lana
lana
6 years ago

Cargo cult science at its finest.

So many genes to choose from too little time to spare.

Fibinachi
6 years ago

The optimal male policy for the furtherance of his genes is to impregnate as many reproductive females as possible, while the optimal female policy is to secure a single, long-term mate of exceptional fitness who will remain with her and provide for her while she rears children.

The optimal male strategy is the have a lot of children…
“Okay, right!”
The optimal female strategy is to have a lot of children, but only with the kind of person we get to call “exceptionally fit”.
“Wait, what?”

… If the optimal strategy of both sexes is to have a lot of children, it’s a matter of maximizing child-output per life. How to do that is any given thing that works, but you’re already looking at a flawed premise when you assume that women need someone to remain with her and provide for her.

Why? She could get a lot of people to do it. She could be a 2-3 year prostitute. She could invest in combined child-rearing with other women (as humans have done since the beginning of time ).

Besides, didn’t the author in the section above just make the claim that everything was about equal transmission of characteristics (to build into: Alpha males), and here it is (Exceptional fitness (alpha males)), but for some reason, the optimal male strategy is still to just impregnate as many people as possible, without taking into account their fitness level. If a spawn isn’t viable, you’re looking at a loss in this useless pretense as logic, so why don’t the hypothesis take that into account? (Because the hypothesis is stupid).

What a bunch of malarky. It was wrong from the first sentence. Not a lot of stuff gets that bloody well wrong.

Jones, the King’s jockey, and Emily Davison both lie unconscious after Davison walked onto the course during the Derby of 4 June 1913

She didn’t “Walk onto the course”, she ran to grab the fucking reins of the fucking horse while the race was in the initial phase.

If the newspaper writes “Fibi walked in front of a tank, and got driven over” and my actual activity was “Running up to the the armed, armored weapon of war to spray paint it peace symbols”, I’d like to suggest there might be some artistic freedom at play in the journalist piece.

God.

Tables, tables, I’m going to focus on the tables before my brain dripples out my ears.

Token: when one thing means another. examplesAn invitation for a cup of coffee: traditionally, this is an invitation to share in the ritual of its preparation, and to talk

emphasis mine

…. hahahaha. Hahaha.
Hahahah.
Hahahahahaha.
Asking someone out for a cup of coffee is now a “token”, because you have to make the coffee before they can drink it. Asking someone to have a cup of coffee with you is a token because you have to make the coffee first. Sweet rotating tire irons.

Damn you cloudiah, this is intoxicating.

Okay, what about DSoD (“Dee-sod”; Dishonest Submersion of Difference) Theory…

… Uhuh. So “

This contrast in the perception of difference is also a function of gender. Theorem 3 in PA is the DSoD Theory (Table 2), so-called because it formalizes females’ erroneous perception and, although they do not see it as such, their dishonest nature to some extent. According to this theory, females make small differences larger and large differences smaller. Thus females tend to minimize large differences between the races, between men and women and between humans and animals. (One might compare females’ insistence that these great differences are small with their meticulous examination of fine details while shopping.) An example quoted in my book is of someone who insisted that any female over the age of 14 be called a woman but who described herself as a “self-identified political lesbian non-separatist heterosexual.”

sorry about just getting mind leakage all over the thread.
Table 2 says…

AMSoSD: The Actual Male Submersion of Small Differences
EFPoSD: The Enhanced Female Perception of Small Differences
IMAoLD: The Inordinate Male Amplification of Large Differences
DFSoLD: The Dishonest Female Submersion of Large Differences

… So males have actual submersion and amplification, but those dastardly lying women have “Enhanced” and “Dishonest”.

God-dammit, why must you always get the racism with the fucking misogyny? Can’t it ever just be plain old woman-hate? No, no, women are dishonest exactly because they think there is no difference between races. Males are awesome because they’re willing to die for these things!

Also, as a note on Science and all, ignoring large differences but getting worked up over very small ones? That’s kind of a big, big deal when you’re trying to construct data-sets and dealing with relative numbers. Males who are oh-so-logical and oh-so-smart who ignore tiny calculations and amplify big ones make airplanes that won’t fly and elavators that take you past the top floor.

Now it’s not funny. Now it’s just sad. : (

lana
lana
6 years ago

I don’t even get why the fuck they’re so obsessed with breeding.

I don’t think they are .I think they are obsessed with their penises and where they feel entitled to stick it and can’t because they need the permission of the receptacle.

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

Speaking of X/Y gene dimorphism, did you know that no matter how many X genes you happen to have (one or two or in some cases three or four) only one of them is turned “on”? There are special little switches on it that keep it from expressing itself too freely. We’re all really one-X gene possessors at that level.

That’s a fun factoid that I learned the other day when somebody was going on a long tirade about how that extra X gene really makes women stupid. I mean, the whole “genes equals gender” thing was fail enough, the misogyny was fail enough, but then to find out that their science was just as empty and full of holes? Oh, it was priceless.

This has been your Science Moment! Courtesy of the Home-schooled kid, learning new stuff all the time.

lana
lana
6 years ago

The optimal male policy for the furtherance of his genes is to impregnate as many reproductive females as possible,

Hide your daughters . Even the daughters of the seed that gened her .Oh and I suggest his mother and sisters should hide too .(and his grandmother and his aunts that are “reproductive”)

lana
lana
6 years ago

All I know is if a man impregnates a woman and the woman has a girl baby then the woman’s “genes” beat the man’s genes. OR it could be the man who impregnated her is actually a girl

Because a man has male genes and a woman has female genes.

right?

lana
lana
6 years ago

This goes back to Biblical times . When the thinking was the man “deposited” a baby into the woman’s womb.

lana
lana
6 years ago

So if a man impregnates 100 women .But each of those women only have one baby (his) then there are more male gene children between them than female gene children .

GOT it! Clear as mud.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Once again, I am reminded of two sayings:

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts,

and

The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.

Applies to Mr. Yay-I-Make-My-Own-Science, liberally. Lather, rinse, repeat…

kittehserf
6 years ago

There are male and female genes ? You mean like at the Gap?

And they never bloody well fit!

LOL at all those sad Rich Men being ripped off by their wives – all those Rich Men who can’t get access to a lawyer, poor things. World’s smallest violin.

Nepenthe
Nepenthe
6 years ago

@Howard Bannister
Careful, it’s the chromosome that gets “turned off” (packaged tightly into a Barr body), not the genes.

Ironically, because we* have two X’s, typical chromosomal females are significantly less likely to be developmentally or intellectually disabled. Even if a typical chromosomal female carries one broken allele for one of the genes on the X chromosome linked to such disabilities, half of the cells in their body will express the functional allele.

I guess male/female genes could almost make sense if you’re talking about inherited methylation; usually only one sex’s methylation state is inherited over the other, IIRC. Something tells me that that’s not what our MRA friends are referring to.

*Yes, I’ve been karyotyped and I’m 46, XX

cloudiah
6 years ago

Nelson Mandela has died.

lana
lana
6 years ago

Another thing ? If men are so inclined to spread their seed around to many reproductive females to ensure his male genes ? Then why do so many of them masturbate like rabbits wasting their genes all over the place ? Do they think a baby (their male genes) will sprout out of the shower drain or grow on a wall or in a tissue?(or a sheet?)

And I guess women when they masturbate they are aiming for immaculate conception .

Look its all science .Sorry to tell you .

Ally S
6 years ago

Nelson Mandela has died.

Shit, really?

RIP :{

lana
lana
6 years ago

Nelson Mandela has died.

Rest in peace . (((HUGS))))

Brooked
Brooked
6 years ago

The essay will attempt to address the underlying mechanisms – the big picture rather than the fine details – and makes the following assumptions: that humans evolved and that their characteristics must be expressed both individually and collectively to be evolutionarily viable.1

1. In the terminology of evolutionary biology, traits must satisfy the criteria for being an evolutionarily stable strategy (ESS); equivalently, they must have a reason to exist (i.e. be advantageous) and have a means to exist (be heritable).

His entire world is comprised of unwarranted assumptions and goofball hypotheses, which he must explain in excruciating detail. His other “articles” focus less on sciency specifics and go heavier on pure hate.

@Fibinachi

God-dammit, why must you always get the racism with the fucking misogyny? Can’t it ever just be plain old woman-hate? No, no, women are dishonest exactly because they think there is no difference between races. Males are awesome because they’re willing to die for these things!

The author bounces between passionate anti-feminism, endless Holocaust “revisionism” (aka Holocaust denial + anti-semitism + ZOG references) and general, virulent bigotry. Simon is a renaissance man and a real peach.

FYI, Simon is a recording engineer from Hull, England and his personal essays includes stories about the recording of Peter Gabriel’s third album. He thinks the song “Biko” is musically impressive, but dislikes the lyrical content (surprise!), and he flat out ignored Kate Bush in a conversation because he refused to “dress up our highly technical discussion in flowery girlie talk for her benefit”. Wow, not only is this guy is a raging crank and a bigot, he was a dick to Kate Bush. He can fall into ditch of Legos and remain there for all eternity.

Brooked
Brooked
6 years ago

After hearing Nelson Madela, I’m going to stop wallowing in crazy bigotry for a while. A sad day.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Vale President Mandela, travel well.

cloudiah
6 years ago

The anti-Apartheid movement was my first intro to political activism, and I still remember where I was when I found out Mandela was getting out of prison.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Just to spite Simon the Bigot:

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLg-8Jxi5aE&w=480&h=360]

RIP, Madiba.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I am so bummed to hear about Mandela. He seemed such a fixture, I have a hard time BELIEVING the dude actually died. 🙁

RE: Argenti

I’ve fallen down a reddit rabbit hole about how trans* lesbians can’t exist.

Kate Bornstein, I’m sure, would argue with him. So would my old roommate, come to think of it. (And speaking of Kate Bornstein, guess who SOLD A COMIC TO HER YESTERDAY? 8D)

RE: they socially emasculate males

I really wish that people would stop using emasculate to mean anything but actual emasculation.

Also, unless anyone buys one of the orphaned Spookathon prompts, it looks like I’m ready to go for the cyborg critters for Feminist Borg! Now all that remains is deciding which animals to cyborg first — a kitty, of course, but what about the other? A fishy for Argenti?

kittehserf
6 years ago

A fishy, for all Argenti’s hard work. 🙂

cloudiah
6 years ago

I vote for a fishy too!

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Okay! How about a clown loach? Argenti loves them, right?

And what kind of kitty shall we have borgified? I was planning on a rex, but am open to persuasion!

quequoi
quequoi
6 years ago

I just popped back into the reddit thread to see if there was anything new…

In a discussion (basically) of how r/mr should never have posted that comment because of the Streisand Effect, HeraldOfRevolution gives us this gem:

“To be fair, this was posted on Manboobz, so even if MRAs weren’t made aware of it, anti-MRAs certainly were. It’s best to know what kind of dirt your opponents are going to throw at you.”

Do these people really lack all perspective?

If you don’t want us to laugh at you, stop being so hilariously awful, and start raising awareness about male suicide, maybe raise some funds for homeless men, perhaps discuss how toxic ideas of masculinity are harmful to young boys.

Jim
Jim
6 years ago

Just a quick note about “indentured servants” especially to vaiyt. “Indentured servants weren’t subjected to kidnapping, torture, erasure of identity, deliberate constant humiliation and being hunted down like animals, so there’s that for starters.”

I have to disagree with this statement. I’m Irish, and our history is filled with forced indentured servitude (i.e slavery). The Irish people were kidnapped, tortured, survived attempted genocide, forced famine and the horrors of the coffin ships. We Irish were also sold as slaves in the new world under the banner of indentured servitude.

I’m not trying to take away from the abomination that was slavery, but it wasn’t a great time in my country’s history either. You’re kinda selling the Irish experience short with that statement. Take a wee gander here http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves

kittehserf
6 years ago

A Rex would be just the go for a Borg kitty.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: auggziliary

How many animals are there going to be?

That depends on the generosity of the Boobzers. The little cyborg creatures are going for $20 a pop; right now, two have been lined up. I’ve decided, just for ease and speed, that whoever donates gets to say what kind of animal their donation goes to — be it ‘Persian cat’ to ‘ki-rin.’

Want an animal? You can throw money at me by clicking my little paypal button here!

RE: Kittehs

Okay, unless you’re outvoted, a cyborg Rex kitty it is!

vaiyt
6 years ago

Mind you, the so-sciency dude doesn’t know the difference between theory and hypothesis. That alone shows how sciency he really is.

The other big problem, of course, is that you can’t just make an hypothesis ex nihilo, you need to grab some data which the hypothesis is meant to explain. Cold, hard, measured data, not anecdotes or hearsay.
The other OTHER big problem is that making up a story to explain the data (which doesn’t exist in this case) is not the end of the story. The next step is to figure out how to disprove the hypothesis and put it to the test. For some reason, so-sciency dudes never get around to this part.

This is literally cargo cult science, reproducing the appearance of the scientific method with no knowledge of how it really works.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Just made a donation, Rogan.

I wanna Borg Rex kitty and a Borg donkey. 🙂

cloudiah
6 years ago

We need some kind of borg marsupial too. I’ll donate when I get home.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Borg Drop-Bear, the ultimate killing machine.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Okay then, we’ve got a borg Rex kitty, a borg donkey, and a borg clown loach! Plus a marsupial of some kind when I hear in from cloudiah. What shall it be, Boobzers? A kangaroo? A koala? A tasmanian wolf?

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

Kangaroo rat?

kittehserf
6 years ago

A numbat, maybe? (Look at that tongue!)

https://www.google.com.au/search?client=firefox-a&hs=bCm&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&biw=1093&bih=429&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=numbat&oq=numbat&gs_l=img.3..0l10.22440.23609.0.23817.6.6.0.0.0.0.270.1062.0j1j4.5.0….0…1c.1.32.img..2.4.841.IUwCi4dz8ng

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Oop, might want to try that again, Kittehs!

Alice, a kangaroo rat would have to have TINY little techy bits. (Spring-powered legs!)

kittehserf
6 years ago

Click on the linky part, Rogan, it worked here. It’s the Google image search result page.

lana
lana
6 years ago

If you don’t want us to laugh at you, stop being so hilariously awful, and start raising awareness about male suicide, maybe raise some funds for homeless men, perhaps discuss how toxic ideas of masculinity are harmful to young boys.

I agree.

They spend to much time begrudging that 19 yo’s won’t marry them and how often they get(don’t) their dick sucked to be taken seriously .

kittehserf
6 years ago

Are we sticking to extant animals or are extinct ones getting in, too? Tasmanian wolves (thylacines) are almost certainly extinct.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Dawww, that’s ADORABLE, Kittehs! I didn’t know such a thing existed.

RE: lana

One of my favorite webcomics has the following conversation:
“Stop making me an example.”
“Stop BEING an example.”

In fact, that whole strip seems relevant to the MRM, especially since I think we were talking about Nice Guys not that long ago.

kittehserf
6 years ago

That strip’s perfect! 😀

Numbats are the most gorgeous little critters. Endangered, of course, like pretty much every animal on this continent.

kittehserf
6 years ago

*native animal

CassandraSays
6 years ago

Now I want a numbat.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Cloudiah just said marsupial; she never specified a non-extinct one!

(Besides, I like to pretend a few thylacines got away and are running around, hiding.)

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: auggziliary

AAAH WHY DID I READ THE FUCKING COMMENTS FUCK ARGH