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Dalrock on why men should avoid women who’ve wasted “a lot of courtship” and “used up their most attractive/fertile years.”

Woman with surplus courtship
Woman with surplus courtship

Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.

Here are a few of them:

Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP).  This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.

Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.

As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process.  However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.

Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.

But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!

Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.

He needs to manage risk vs reward.  When courting, there are two fundamental risks.  These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.

So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!

For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important.  The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.

Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.

Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.

This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”

And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”

That Churchill, what a card!

Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married;  unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.

Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)

They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …

Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma;  older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.

Well, you could always marry a dude.

There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.

Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”

The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.

Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?

Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.

But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage.  For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.

That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?

As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:

fig_19_series_23_no_22_p_27

But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).

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Thalia
Thalia
5 years ago

This isn’t a weird utopian hypothetical ideal for me, btw. I’ve been married for 22 years and we’ve managed some very tough decisions together. I do not submit to him, he does not submit to me, and we are very happy together. I couldn’t love or respect a petty tyrant who stamps his foot if someone says no to him, and he couldn’t love or respect a subjugated doormat, so it’s worked pretty well for us.

innocentbystanderboston

Kootie,

In a marriage, there should not be decision “winners”. Both people should work together, looking to serve, edify, and cherish the other person. Talk about it like grownups. Pray together. Figure out an outcome that is beneficial for the people involved.

When a Christian man is single, he has ultimate authority for every single decision that he makes in his entire life. The person of ultimate authority whose laws he must OBEY is Christ. And Christ OBEYED God the Father.

God -> Christ -> Man

When a man gets married, he understands that he has “headship” and is ultimately responsible for the spiritual growth of the family. That is an enormous responsibility and with it come rights, the right to expect his wife will obey him in all things (as God and Christ have commanded of her.)

God -> Christ -> Man -> Wife

It is not about winners or losers. Marriage is NOT a game. And it doesn’t even have to be work. Just stay married through thick and thin. A man cherishes his wife (for sure) specifically because she does OBEY him and submits to him. He knows that whatever decision must be made in the family, he has ultimate authority. It doesn’t work any other way.

If he didn’t have this authority with his wife (and you feminists are claiming he doesn’t because you don’t like it) then of course, he should NOT marry her. Why should he marry her, what is in it for him? What does he gain? And don’t say love because for men love basically is just s-x. That is love. She doesn’t want to obey him, then she should live alone and support herself WITHOUT a man’s support and guidance. She doesn’t need him, she has feminism. Feminism says she is in complete control over her own life, right? Why would she want a man?

And that is why our current marriage rate in the United States has dropped from 72% of all people 18 and older in 1976 to 49.2% today. Women still want to get married (as they want financial provisioning from men) but they don’t want to obey them. Okay, so men are refusing to marry women. We’ll be at 48.8% of our adult population as married, this time next year. This feminist “Life of Julia” crap (which mandates maximum government provisioning for Julia as she has NO husband in her life) is a disaster for taxpayers.

sparky
sparky
5 years ago

You’ve not made your case at all, IBB.

Again, why should I, a non-Christian living in a non-theocracy, be forced to follow Dalrock’s interpretation of the Bible?

Before all of you fly off the handle here, let me give you all the most important red pill you have ever gotten and ask you all to eat that red pill with one question, the most important question anyone has ever asked a feminist regarding marriage and the patriarchy: if you are NOT willing to obey your husband in all things, NOT willing to submit to his every desire, NOT willing to do absolutely everything he tells you to do, then why oh why would you ever be willing to marry him?

Love. I see you have no understanding of the concept of love. That explains some things. You should probably look into the concept of love. I hear Jesus was big into it.

In a Democracy, everyone gets a vote. So you are married to your husband. He wants to buy one house and you want to buy another house. You both get a vote. Who wins? He wants the family to attend one church and you want to attend another church. You both get a vote. Who wins? His parents are getting old (as are yours) and they can’t care for themselves. He wants to buy a bigger house with an in-law apartment and you want to put them in assisted living. You both get a vote. Who wins? Your daughter is going to college and you are paying for much of it. She wants to study international relations because its fun and easy and your husband says it is STEM or she needs to go to Community College for the first two years. You think an IR degree (and all the student loans going with it) is just fine. You both get a vote. Who wins?

It’s telling that you think that a relationship is something one person “wins” in. That and the whole, “Why would you marry a man if your not going to totally obey him in everything?!?” bit tells me you are more interested in maintaining power than maintaining a good, healthy relationship. What you want is to be able to lord it over someone, not a loving marriage. But anyway, all those disagreements? My husband and I would handle like adults. We’d talk over the pros and cons and come to a resolution. That’s what adults do. As for my daughter’s college, as the 18-year-old adult who’s going to college and who will ultimately be responsible for the student loans, she’s the one who gets to pick her major.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@contrapangloss:

I’m pretty sure decision-making in my parents long and happy marriage never came down to who wins because my parents weren’t silly enough to use combative and competitive rhetoric with one another and instead sat down to discus pros and cons like…

… two well informed adults who were thinking of what would be best for them and then future me and sibling.

Meanwhile, my parents (now divorced) have had a tumultuous and generally unhappy marriage because of my dad’s inability to view individual situations as anything other than something to “win.” In fact, he’s used similar arguments to boston’s; namely, if there is a decision to be made and they agree to go with my mom’s decision, doesn’t that mean he didn’t get a say? If he doesn’t get the final decision, that must mean there never was a discussion (even though there was).

Thalia
Thalia
5 years ago

And don’t say love because for men love basically is just s-x.

Oh, so you’re just some sort of weird “Christian” sociopath who can’t make an affectionate attachment to another human being? All human connections are for is just orgasms and getting to order someone around? Then I pity you.

katz
5 years ago

innocentbystanderboston: You have a very rudimentary, incomplete grasp of theology of gender. You ought to do more reading on the topic. As you talk like an evangelical, might I recommend Rachel Held Evans?

http://www.amazon.com/Year-Biblical-Womanhood-Liberated-Covering/dp/1595553673/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429651571&sr=8-1

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

If he didn’t have this authority with his wife (and you feminists are claiming he doesn’t because you don’t like it) then of course, he should NOT marry her. Why should he marry her, what is in it for him? What does he gain? And don’t say love because for men love basically is just s-x. That is love.

So what does that husband’s wife gain in a relationship? Her husband apparently is only in it for the sex.

You’ve defined a husband’s love as lust (for sex and for power) and a woman’s love as servitude. No wonder your view of marriage is so messed up.

innocentbystanderboston

And most of you still have not answered my question. Seriously, if a woman is not willing to obey her husband, why on earth would she be willing to marry him? That is not a complicated question. And don’t tell me love. No, she does NOT love him if she does not want to obey him.

There is a very good (feminist-centric) reason why she wants to get married to a man she refuses to obey, I just want someone to be honest with all of us and admit it. So far, none of you have.

katz
5 years ago

And don’t say love because for men love basically is just s-x.

In that case, parents definitely don’t love their children (at least I hope not)!

Thalia
Thalia
5 years ago

she should live alone and support herself WITHOUT a man’s support and guidance. She doesn’t need him, she has feminism. Feminism says she is in complete control over her own life, right? Why would she want a man?

I loved living alone, actually. I had no trouble supporting and guiding myself. As far as I wanted this man — it goes back to that “love” thing that is apparently so alien to you. Also, we got some lovely wedding gifts!

katz
5 years ago

And most of you still have not answered my question. Seriously, if a woman is not willing to obey her husband, why on earth would she be willing to marry him? That is not a complicated question. And don’t tell me love. No, she does NOT love him if she does not want to obey him.

There is a very good (feminist-centric) reason why she wants to get married to a man she refuses to obey, I just want someone to be honest with all of us and admit it. So far, none of you have.

“Answer the question! But don’t answer it with the answer you answered! I decided that’s not an answer!”

OK, here’s an answer that doesn’t use the L-word.

No, the OTHER L-word.

I married my husband because being married to him makes me happy, and being married to me makes him happy. We know this because we are both happier now than we were before we were married, and you can’t say we aren’t because they are our feelings, not yours.

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

It is not about winners or losers.

You are the one who introduced the language of winning.

A man cherishes his wife (for sure) specifically because she does OBEY him and submits to him.

I’m pretty sure a man should cherish his wife because that’s what God expects of him, not because she’s submitting hard enough.

And don’t say love because for men love basically is just s-x.

How… uh… biblical…?

sparky
sparky
5 years ago

I don’t think much of a man whose “love” is based on complete and unquestioning obedience. That’s not love, that’s tyranny. Anyone who insists on zir partner’s complete obedience is a tyrant. That’s a healthy adult relationship, that’s an adolescent power fantasy.

If that’s what you think marriage is and should be, IBB, then I’m glad it’s declining. Such a thing needs to die.

The rest of us will be over here, forming loving, respectful, adult relationships, as we see fit.

katz
5 years ago

And don’t say love because for men love basically is just s-x.

How… uh… biblical…?

Sex is patient, sex is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast, it keeps no record of wrongs but it does keep notches on the bedpost.

If I speak in the tongues of men and angels, but have not sex, I am but a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

For God so sexed the world…

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

And most of you still have not answered my question. Seriously, if a woman is not willing to obey her husband, why on earth would she be willing to marry him? That is not a complicated question. And don’t tell me love. No, she does NOT love him if she does not want to obey him.

*sigh* Alright, how about affection? A desire to raise children with someone? A desire to hold a monogamous relationship with someone (which isn’t quite a tautology; our culture places a special significance on being married for the sake of being married, and on having a single life partner. In fact, the reason divorce and marriage rates are falling is because cohabitation is becoming more acceptable, so a marriage isn’t required to spend all your time with a single other person)?

If you don’t like the word “love,” then how about just the feelings that “love” usually applies to; joy in seeing a person beside you when you wake up in the morning, pleasure in sharing various activities and hobbies, and yes, even sexual/romantic attraction (when applicable)?

Sorry, but if this still isn’t an answer to you because you lump it all under love (and then redefine “love” as desire to serve), then you’ll never get a good answer from us. We can’t explain color to someone who can’t see.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

(not to mention tax reasons; that’s a reason for some people who don’t particularly care about marriage in and of itself, but still have someone they want to cohabitate with)

sparky
sparky
5 years ago

Er, last sentence in my first paragraph should read, “That not a healthy adult relationship….”

You’re the one confusing obedience with love, IBB. That’s your hang-up, not ours.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

There is a very good (feminist-centric) reason why she wants to get married to a man she refuses to obey, I just want someone to be honest with all of us and admit it. So far, none of you have.

Hmm, I’ll guess you’re thinking about money. That seems to be the go-to explanation for someone marrying someone they don’t love, especially people who promote the patriarchal world of men bringing home the money and women minding the children. If that’s not it, I’m stumped.

How about a hint?

katz
5 years ago

Hmm, I’ll guess you’re thinking about money. That seems to be the go-to explanation for someone marrying someone they don’t love, especially people who promote the patriarchal world of men bringing home the money and women minding the children.

Ha, you’re totally right. He’s all “Why do you want to get married?” and then he’ll reject every answer except “money” and then he’ll be all “I knew it! Feminists only marry for money!” ignoring the 87 people who said “love.”

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

Seriously, if a woman is not willing to obey her husband, why on earth would she be willing to marry him? That is not a complicated question. And don’t tell me love. No, she does NOT love him if she does not want to obey him.

I love lots of people I don’t obey.

When I was a child, I obeyed my parents. I am an adult now, so that aspect of our relationship has changed. I don’t live in their house. They don’t tell me what to do. Obedience is no longer an issue. But I still deeply love them, respect them, and value their advice.

I love my brother. He’s my sibling. My younger sibling. I don’t obey him, and never have.

I do obey the government, but I am definitely not in love with them.

When I marry, it will be someone I love, who stirs me to love the Lord more, who I share mutual respect and trust with, who mutually wants to build a life together. Someone who will be a good father. Someone who is a good friend. Someone who will treat me like his peer, and not his pet.

There is a very good (feminist-centric) reason why she wants to get married to a man she refuses to obey, I just want someone to be honest with all of us and admit it. So far, none of you have.

It’s interesting that you think you know what we want better than we ourselves do. Having never met any of us IRL, and presumably not being a mind-reader, I find this rather hard to believe.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@katz:

Sex is patient, sex is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast, it keeps no record of wrongs but it does keep notches on the bedpost.

If I speak in the tongues of men and angels, but have not sex, I am but a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

For God so sexed the world…

*snrk*

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Sex the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Sex your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

@katz “In that case, parents definitely don’t love their children (at least I hope not)!”

Men also can’t love Jesus in that setup, cause loving Jesus would just mean lusting after him.

katz
5 years ago

Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good. His sex endures forever.

innocentbystanderboston

S-x is how a man shows his complete love an affection for his wife. That is the reaon why s-x is basically love for a man. It is a beautiful, tangible, Biblical thing. It is a real, entirely objective, measurement. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Dont you all want your husbands to love you SPECIFICALLY in this way?

Kirby,

Hmm, I’ll guess you’re thinking about money. That seems to be the go-to explanation for someone marrying someone they don’t love, especially people who promote the patriarchal world of men bringing home the money and women minding the children. If that’s not it, I’m stumped.

That is exactly what I am saying. It used to be, if you left you left with the clothes on your back, nothing else. That is a non-starter for feminists. That is why unilateral divorce laws (creating by feminism) guarantees cash and prizes for the person blowing up the marriage. It is just about money, not obeying, never submitting.

That is why men are opting out (and going MGTOW.)

49.2% and dropping ladies….

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

I’m a bit late into this, so apologies if this has been covered, but how does our friend explain women who marry men of lower earning capacity?

katz
5 years ago

Above all, sex each other deeply, because sex covers a multitude of sins.

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

This idea of a woman who obeys her husband’s every command just reminds me of those guys whining about sexbots. This “perfect christian wife” idea is basicly a sexbot, her continued existance seems to actually be threatened by her own free will.

sparky
sparky
5 years ago

Alan Robertshaw: Well, obviously, those women simply don’t exist. Otherwise, how could they get all those nifty cash and prizes for divorcing their husbands? Just like love doesn’t exist. It’s only unquestioning obedience on the part of the woman and sex on the part of the man. I’m sorry, “s-x.”

1 John 4:18 – There is no fear in sex; but perfect sex casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in sex.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@katz:

Ha, you called it!

@ibb:

While marriage rates are indeed declining, cohabitation rates are rising. (source)

Men aren’t going their own way. People are just opting to cohabit rather than marry. The marriages that do occur are much more stable (less chance of divorce, longer periods of marriage).

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

So all these people saying love, love, love, are just liars? I have so much pity for you. What a rotten way to live, never really knowing or loving anyone. What has made you so bitter?

katz
5 years ago

That is exactly what I am saying. It used to be, if you left you left with the clothes on your back, nothing else. That is a non-starter for feminists. That is why unilateral divorce laws (creating by feminism) guarantees cash and prizes for the person blowing up the marriage. It is just about money, not obeying, never submitting.

*ding ding ding* Kirby gets a prize!

Honey, a bunch of women told you why we married our husbands and nobody mentioned money. You are ignoring all of us and the honest answers you’re actually getting because you’ve already decided what the answer is, and you’re now drawing conclusions based on the made-up answer you decided beforehand, rather than based on what’s actually happening around you.

Among other conclusions that can be drawn from this, it’s clear that submitting to you and letting you make decisions would be a terrible mistake.

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

Sex is *an* expression of love. But even the most passionate couples spend a relatively small percentage of their time together gettin’ it on.

Yes, I expect my husband to have loving sex with me. I also expect him to show me love by caring for me if I’m sick. By being present and engaged with our kids. By helping with the housework. By using his words to encourage and edify me.

And so now you claim that this is really all about money, even though that is not an answer that anyone came up with. And you claim that it should be a good thing that women (and kids!) end up destitute if they have to escape a bad man. Welp.

49.2% and dropping ladies….

Oh dear. Woe is me. How shall I ever endure if I do not land a guy who will give me orders and sex me and let me have an allowance and think that’s good enough for a marriage to work. /s

chroniclurker
chroniclurker
5 years ago

Sex your enemies, do them good, and sex them without expecting to be sexed back. Then your reward will be great, and will be the sons and daughters of the Most High, because he has sex for the ungrateful and wicked.

(Luke 6:25…ish)

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

@IBB
So I guess you’re in favor of marital rape, cause a man wanting to have sex while his wife doesn’t means she should submit to him, right?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

Dont you all want your husbands to love you SPECIFICALLY in this way?

The sexual among us would indeed want our spouses to love us in that particular way. It’s just not the only way we wish to be loved.

S-x is how a man shows his complete love an affection for his wife. That is the reaon why s-x is basically love for a man.

You just repeated yourself. “Sex is love, and that is the reason why sex is love.”

It is a beautiful, tangible, Biblical thing. It is a real, entirely objective, measurement.

For some, sure.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

What’s difficult to understand is why you think that men, for all the range of emotions we can display, ultimately are only capable of expressing sexual desire to our loved ones.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@katz:

Among other conclusions that can be drawn from this, it’s clear that submitting to you and letting you make decisions would be a terrible mistake.

So, if ibb here is basically telling the women here what they should think and expecting they submit to his pronouncement… is he thus demanding marriage-level love from the women here? I guess his obstinate attitude is actually a mass proposal.

katz
5 years ago

I’m going to pretend he’s saying “sax”. The only way men can express love is by playing the saxophone.

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

I’m freaking dying at the “replace [love] with [sex]” Bible verses, ahahaha, oh man.

But seriously, bystander is being freaking awful, criminy. Here, buddy, I’m sure you’re familiar with this verse:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

There you go, the biblical definition of love. I don’t see anything there saying that love is just sex or that love means blindly and utterly submitting to another flawed human being.

Because it’s fucking not. By Christ’s rules, love is something that is kind and patient and selfless. It’s about having respect for one another, about communication and understanding. Hell, it’s a big freaking reason why Jesus had to come down here in the first place, because God handing down commandments from on high WASN’T WORKING. There was a disconnect, we couldn’t communicate properly, we couldn’t understand one another, so God had to become man to open up the dialogue between us again.

And you disgust me, saying things like all love is to men is sex. Fuck you, buddy. Love is one of the most important forces in this world, one of the most precious. Equating it to lust and mindless obedience is like spitting in Christ’s face.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Thank you, innocentbystanderboston, for proving that the biggest misandrists and misogynists are men.

Bonus “rampaging troll jerk points” for using religion (a religion that many of our feminist regulars follow as well) as a means to try to keep women in line and “obeying men”, but men “just can’t help their nature!”.

Seriously, fuck you, flounce and stick it.

Love, a heathen pagan.

P.S.:

katz
5 years ago

So, if ibb here is basically telling the women here what they should think and expecting they submit to his pronouncement… is he thus demanding marriage-level love from the women here? I guess his obstinate attitude is actually a mass proposal.

I think it’s not commutative. A woman who marries a man must submit to everything he says, but not being married to a man doesn’t mean you don’t have to submit to everything he says. Thus why complementarians think women shouldn’t be in a position of authority over men in any situation, ever.

Thalia
Thalia
5 years ago

So, rapists are expressing their lovin’ love to their victims? Johns love prostitutes? I find this argument utterly bizarre. I thought the manly male contention was that it was WOMEN who confused sex with love, and men could sex all the live-long day and have no emotional investment at all?

Obviously, for most (not all) people of both genders, romantic love and sexual attraction are deeply linked and we do want to have sex with people we love, and we find loveless sex less meaningful. But that doesn’t mean that the love is sex and nothing but sex. It doesn’t even mean that love is sex + getting to boss someone around, or sex + that sweet sweet cold hard cash.

Men who stay with their terminally ill wives and care for them and grieve for them are presumably not just in it for the sex (or the obedience, since she is not likely to get up out of bed and make you a sandwich when you order her to). Maybe they actually CARE about those women! And maybe women who stay with their husbands though financial destitution and illness and the slings and arrows of outrageous fate actually CARE about those men! Even if the women have money and the men don’t! Could such madness be?

katz
5 years ago

By Christ’s rules, love is something that is kind and patient and selfless. It’s about having respect for one another, about communication and understanding. Hell, it’s a big freaking reason why Jesus had to come down here in the first place, because God handing down commandments from on high WASN’T WORKING. There was a disconnect, we couldn’t communicate properly, we couldn’t understand one another, so God had to become man to open up the dialogue between us again.

Quoted for good theology.

sparky
sparky
5 years ago

1 Corinthians 13:13: And now these three remain: faith, hope and sex. But the greatest of these is sex.

fromafar2013
fromafar2013
5 years ago

If you are NOT willing to obey your husband in all things, NOT willing to submit to his every desire, NOT willing to do absolutely everything he tells you to do, then why oh why would you ever be willing to marry him?

O_O

Holy necro troll. I’m just catching up and I have to respond, though I”m sure someone’s already said it:

Because I like him. Very much. Love, even (novel, I know). We’re best friends first and foremost, and even if the relationship didn’t work out for some reason down the line, I would hope we would still be friends. We get along. We enjoy spending time together, doing things together. This past weekend we dug a 24 foot long, 2 foot wide, 1 1/2 foot deep trench along his driveway to install a french drain. Many beers and laughs were had. It was hard work, but it was fun… because I was doing it with him.

Also, the physical intimacy thing ain’t half bad either 😉

In fact, I was so willing to marry him, that two years into dating him, I proposed to him, and he accepted 🙂

But then again, I’m one of those liberal feminist bisexuals your parents warned you about. I’d need to at least like someone as a person (man, woman or gender-non-conforming) before marrying them, regardless.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

As our friend points out the legal system is just a plaything of radical feminists. It’s well known that the Legislature is just a front and all statutes are drawn up by Jessica Valenti.

You’ll all remember the heady days when a matriarchy of radfems ran Alabama (or “New Themyscira” as they called it then). They imposed a law, just as our friend says, that discriminated against men; saying only women could receive alimony.

Luckily the Supreme Court stepped in to save the day and ruled the law unconstitutional.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/440/268/case.html

That was one in the eye for Germaine Greer’s plans for world domination I can tell you. But Germaine retired to her hollowed out volcano and plotted her revenge against the supreme court. Have you noticed you never see her and Sandra Day O’Conner in the same room at the same time eh?

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Also, I clicked on one of Katz’s links, and I found a book called Jesus Feminist, where a woman discusses bible passages and how “Jesus made her a feminist”.

chroniclurker
chroniclurker
5 years ago

For God so sexed the world that he gave his only son. John 3:16

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

@Paradoxical Intention – I have that on Kindle; it’s a lovely read.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

@Kootiepatra: I might have to get it then. I’m a pagan myself, but I enjoy reading about other theologies and religions and how they influence worldviews and the like. ‘Tis fun.

I’m reading a very interesting book right now called Confessions of a Buddhist Atheist, and then I’m going to go on to read the Tao of Pooh.

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

And suppose a woman did find a man so perfect she wanted to submit to him in all matters but he changed? Suppose he was working on a railway and an accident with some dynamite propelled a metal spike through his head and it fundamentally altered his personality? Or he becomes a violent drunk, and when they vote on whether he should drink more whiskey it’s always a tie so he wins? Should she continue to obey him if he becomes a criminal? Help him bury the bodies?