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Dalrock on why men should avoid women who’ve wasted “a lot of courtship” and “used up their most attractive/fertile years.”

Woman with surplus courtship

Woman with surplus courtship

Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.

Here are a few of them:

Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP).  This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.

Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.

As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process.  However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.

Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.

But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!

Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.

He needs to manage risk vs reward.  When courting, there are two fundamental risks.  These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.

So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!

For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important.  The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.

Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.

Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.

This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”

And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”

That Churchill, what a card!

Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married;  unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.

Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)

They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …

Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma;  older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.

Well, you could always marry a dude.

There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.

Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”

The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.

Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?

Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.

But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage.  For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.

That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?

As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:

fig_19_series_23_no_22_p_27

But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).

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Posted on November 18, 2013, in a woman is always to blame, evil old ladies, evil sexy ladies, evil women, marriage strike, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, oppressed white men, patriarchy, playing the victim, reactionary bullshit and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink. 1,428 Comments.

  1. I wonder if Mikey has any memories of joyful sex? Or joyful anything, for that matter? Has he ever been happy? Evidence so far suggests no to all three.

    Not that I feel any pity for him, because it seems entirely self-inflicted.

  2. Mikey probably spends a lot of time talking to his hand.

  3. Thanks, Kittenserf.
    You all rock my socks off.

  4. I can’t believe Mikey tried to give us the “talk to the hand” over the internet. What a maroon.

  5. I doubt Mikey has ever had any sort of meaningful relationship or friendship with either gender ever.

    Guys like him just do not seem to understand anything about cultivating character and building relationships and friendship…it is all about them, and like the toddlers they are, they think everyone should cater to them.

    Welcome to reality, Mikey. People are not here to mommy you, you need to just grow the fuck up.

  6. I honestly don’t know what your talking about. It’s on DALROCK. I did NOT post anything on Reddit or any site which is sexist .

    This made me chuckle. Why DO you capitalize CERTAIN words? It doesn’t MAKE sense which ONES you chose.

    Besides what’s your story David? What’s up with this blog? What’s your motivation for this forum?Are you just here to support whatever women define for you as correct or are you just the Urban Dictionary’s Definition of a Cuckhold? Which is it? Just wondering..

    What’s up with this weak call out? Cuckhold? Not even CUCKOLD? I guess it’s not that much fun yelling at a man when there are women to squawk at.

  7. He still doesn’t understand contradictions.
    “WOMEN should sleep with only the PEAK men! I am PEAKKKKK…
    Why didn’t they sleep with me?????? IT’S ALL THEIR FAULTS. ALL OF THEM. SPINSTERS!!!”

  8. I doubt Mikey is able to discern that he isn’t anywhere near the peak…he isn’t even near the fucking base camp if you ask me.

  9. Welcome to reality, Mikey. People are not here to mommy you, you need to just grow the fuck up.

    Quoted for truth

  10. Not even the best sherpa could get Mikey to the peak.

  11. Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III

    Speaking as a character in a Jane Austen novel, I cannot disapprove with sufficient vehemence to the use of the words sp*nster or c*ckh*ld. For shame! This Michael is clearly a ne’er-do-w*ll of the first water.

  12. I’m still not seeing what’s so alpha about shrieking at women on feminist blogs in a futile attempt to force them to care about your opinion.

    Well, it might be alpha in the world of poop-flinging baboons and howler monkeys, but among humans it will get you looked at like you’re unevolved. Maybe he’s the Missing Link?

    While I was out walking my dog, I realised why Mikey commented on dog walking as a spinster activity rather than the traditional cat ownership. It’s because sole reason women walk dogs is the same as going to the supermarket – to meet men! It was in a movie once, so it must be true.

    Oh dang, you mean that when I had a dog, I did it wrong by just taking him out for exercise and to poop? Because mine was a big shepherd/husky cross who looked like the love child of a timber wolf and a grizzly bear. Looked fierce, but was a total suck. The only males who came near me when I walked him were little kids, who all wanted to hug my “doggie”. They weren’t fooled. Grown men, on the other hand, just passed me with a nervously respectful hello and a wide berth around the dog…and I was lucky to get that much out of them. I just have to laugh. My dog might have licked them to death, but that’s about it. My cats, on the other hand, were always the real rulers of the roost.

    I had to actually venture to Reddit to see it for myself. Mikey’s a celebrity and hero to men everywhere, thanks to his experience story.

    That must be why he’s so shrieky here. Celebriturds and their entitlements…

  13. Now I want to know what a “bod job” is.

  14. He doesn’t seem to understand fertility either. If a woman is getting laid a lot, and she’s beautiful, that means she’s super fertile and has superior babies in caveman land. So men should be begging to marry her.
    Also he realizes his girlfriend who is 5′ 7″ and 107 lbs would be considered a bad mate in that sense too? Being that skinny would have been more likely to be from starvation or sickness than genetics in caveman world, so she would have been considered infertile. Also most cultures liked bigger women till the 50’s or 60’s.
    Gee, it’s almost like how genders behave sexually has little to do with evolution, and more to do with culture.

    10$ says he’s a total homophobe. If a woman being “unnatural” makes her an awful SPINSTER MEGA SLUT due to her potential harm to the species in the past, then asexual and homosexual people must be the moral equivalent to Hitler. SPINSTER Hitler.

  15. @ Cassandra’s Kitty

    She is not 18. Nobody 18 could be that stupid and brainwashed…

    Unless things are actually WORSE in this society.then I’ve imagined in my worst nightmares…

    I missed this earlier. Yup, the SPINSTER APOCALYPSE is even worse than you and Dalrock have imagined. Auggz foretells our collective doom! Look on Manboobz’ works, ye mighty, and despair!

  16. Nobody 18 could be that stupid and brainwashed…

    …says the stupid, brainwashed man over 30.

    Pitiful.

  17. There must be a band somewhere called Spinster Hitler. It has to happen.

  18. @auggz I’ll take that bet and bet you $20 that he is an Ayn Rand fan.

  19. She is not 18. Nobody 18 could be that stupid and brainwashed…

    Oh dear. D’you hear that, auggzillary? Mikey from the Internet knows how old you are and you don’t because Mikey from the Internet would know better than the actual person who actually is having those birthdays.

    Holy fucking shit. I really didn’t anyone could be that stupid. Applause for you Mikey. Congratulations. This is the stupidest comment I have ever read, ever. You win the the stupid contest, Mikey.

  20. Now I want to know what a “bod job” is.

    So do I, but I doubt Sir Bodsworth’s going to tell us.

    MIkey’s more peaky than peak.

    I wonder if he meant cockhold rather than cuckhold? I know there’s no such word but gods, would it apply to him.

    SPINSTER MEGA SLUT – girly death metal band?

  21. “I really didn’t think anyone could be that stupid.”

    OMG! The stupid is catching!

  22. Also how the hell is 30+ a mans peak? That’s usually when men start to go “downhill”, health wise, and 30 was sort of old. A 20 year old dude would be way better. Far less risky. Much more healthy and agile. Less likely to get weak in a few years or have illnesses. Also they have higher fertility. Also way cuter, IMO.
    (Btw I don’t actually buy into evo psych. It’s just fun to apply their caveman logic to their lives).

  23. I think Shrieky Mikey’s out to win Troll of the Year. He’s certainly more persistently bizarre and lulzy than any we’ve had in ages.

  24. Yes Mikey, I am 18. Jesus fucking Christ, is he deliberately trying to be wrong?

  25. auggz – nah, 400+ is when they start to peak. ;)

  26. And by the way you almost made me throw up all over my keyboard. For a second I imagined the words “my gates” instead of “any gates”. You FOOL.

    You’re dressed in a Dr. Doom costume, right? You can’t say “you FOOL” if you aren’t in villain costume and waving your gloved fist in the air. It’s poor form.

  27. Nah…400+ is just when we are starting to get wise to the ways of the world, it takes a good 2000 years until we are actually ripe.

  28. “Well, Mikey, if we’re the gatekeepers, then sucks to be you, because you’re not gonna be getting past any gates. We don’t owe you sex”

    Actually your wrong.

    Oh, so very wrong. Thank you MRM

    I don’t need to “make” anyone have sex with me. Least of all my girlfriend. Perhaps you missed that part while you were busy seeing what you wanted to see. I HAVE A GIRLFRIEND.

    You’re a liar, Mikey. Lying isn’t very moral. If you were having lots of sex with your hot Kate Moss-like girlfriend, you wouldn’t be spewing rage over the comment section of a blog night after night.

    Why haven’t you answered any of my questions? You are miserable, aren’t you? You are afraid of being a spinster, aren’t you? And you are filled with rage from having your ass so consistently handed to you by a bunch of people who consider contemptuous. Right? I’m right, aren’t I?

    And Susan Walsh from that “Hooking Up Smart” blog, that you held up as evidence of you being right, directly contradicted you. You going to acknowledge that?

  29. Auggz is actually 72. That’s why she’s the ultimate spinster.

  30. If Mikey ever got anywhere near kittehs’ “gates”, this is what would happen.

    Actually that goes for all of us.

  31. Women don’t “owe” anyone sex. They “owe” it to themselves, society and the future babies of this world do do the right thing. It’s that simple.

    Uh, no. Future people < actual people. Also over population. People like you just want to run the world into the ground.

    When you ignore winners, when you say the nice guy is a creep and the creep is the nice guy, when you fuck 50 losers, become a single mother, or beat the odds and marry an innocent victim at 30 before your looks slide off a cliff, initiate divorce, falsely accuse men of stalking or domestic violence, take half or more of his assets, extort him for child support and alimony, so can you dress up in trendy clothes, buy 100 pairs of shoes, get a bod job and and PRETEND than you’re a “successful independent women”, all your doing is hurting nice guys, stealing from taxpayers, greasing the wheels of the corrupt legal system, ruining children’s lives, rewarding evil and proving women’s equality is a mistake..

    It’s all a conspiracy man. Think of the children! The ones their *fathers* left and their *mothers* decided to stick around and take care of!

    I would never personally do this. Again – I would never personally do this. However link shuts down your idiotic blathering above. Because of women like you and the degradation of our morals and culture; things have gotten so bad now, Feminism has been so destructive to women, men, children, family and society, there was actually a mathematician who showed that HIRING ESCORTS ON A REGULAR BASIS IS CHEAPER THAN GETTING DIVORCED.

    Then hire the escort girls and shut up. Problem solved.

  32. He’s going to come back with “but it’s naaatural” for men to leave their kids and such, I know it. Dude, if it was “natural” then why are you flipping out about all these problems they’ve caused? You can’t say men are supposed to pump and dump in one post, then freak out about all the single moms in another.

  33. Women don’t “owe” anyone sex. They “owe” it to themselves, society and the future babies of this world do do the right thing. It’s that simple. When you ignore winners, when you say the nice guy is a creep and the creep is the nice guy, when you fuck 50 losers, become a single mother, or beat the odds and marry an innocent victim at 30 before your looks slide off a cliff, initiate divorce, falsely accuse men of stalking or domestic violence, take half or more of his assets, extort him for child support and alimony, so can you dress up in trendy clothes, buy 100 pairs of shoes, get a bod job and and PRETEND than you’re a “successful independent women”, all your doing is hurting nice guys, stealing from taxpayers, greasing the wheels of the corrupt legal system, ruining children’s lives, rewarding evil and proving women’s equality is a mistake..

    Mikey, why the fuck do you care about any of this, even if it is as commonplace as you seem to think it is? You’ll never even meet the majority of the women you’re passing this stupid judgment on and trying to “warn” with the worst fucking advice ever. Luckily for us, we all have minds of our own and don’t care what you think. And so do all the women you’re aiming your lectures at. Give it up, already…LOSER.

    I don’t need to “make” anyone have sex with me. Least of all my girlfriend. Perhaps you missed that part while you were busy seeing what you wanted to see. I HAVE A GIRLFRIEND.

    COOL STORY, BRO. STOP YELLING. YOU SOUND LIKE A RAGING PSYCHOPATH.

    I would never personally do this.

    And yet, you knew where to look for that pimp agency. You fucking hypocrite.

  34. Oooh, I nearly made Mikeykins puke? WIN!

    Nah…400+ is just when we are starting to get wise to the ways of the world, it takes a good 2000 years until we are actually ripe.

    Crumbs, my guy must be an early developer! :P

    Okay, train time for me, I’ll leave you all to swat the chewtoy around. Later!

  35. My emphasis:

    …beat the odds and marry an innocent victim at 30 before your looks slide off a cliff, initiate divorce, falsely accuse men of stalking or domestic violence, take half or more of his assets…

    Yet more proof that Michael can’t conceive of women owning money, just being kept with their husband’s money. This is why he thinks “spinsterhood” is such a dire threat, and why Cassandra’s question about an unmarried woman owning the sort of property he (supposedly) owns wouldn’t even make any sense to him. Here’s a clue, pal: if they were married, it was their money. You’d think a lawyer would be able to figure that out.

  36. Especially one who claims to live in a community property state.

  37. Mikey probably spends a lot of time talking to his hand.

    …among other intimacies, assisted by Jergens lotion and sweatsocks.

  38. When you ignore winners, when you say the nice guy is a creep and the creep is the nice guy, when you fuck 50 losers, become a single mother, or beat the odds and marry an innocent victim at 30 before your looks slide off a cliff, initiate divorce, falsely accuse men of stalking or domestic violence, take half or more of his assets, extort him for child support and alimony, so can you dress up in trendy clothes, buy 100 pairs of shoes, get a bod job and and PRETEND than you’re a “successful independent women”, all your doing is hurting nice guys, stealing from taxpayers, greasing the wheels of the corrupt legal system, ruining children’s lives, rewarding evil and proving women’s equality is a mistake..

    I have to admit this one amazing (and amazingly long) sentence. You manage to hit every MRA talking point in one awkward fell swoop, before crashing into the ground below.

  39. He even included the famous MRA double period!

  40. Has it ever occurred to him that his creepy obsession with fertility and babies is totally irrelevant to most? Not everyone’s goal in life is to have a pile of babies, or even one baby. Like me.
    If he’s so concerned with the future then he should be against having babies for shits and giggles.

  41. I wonder if it’s ever passed through his mighty lawyerly brain that women pay taxes?

  42. Or, maybe, just maybe, women are not some maid race that supposed to clean up after themselves, the children, and every mans FEELings?
    Each person for themselves and their communities, this isn’t a hard concept.

  43. He really is the junior Meller, and it’s hilarious. Long may he shriek.

  44. My favorite part is “stealing from taxpayers”. Cause no women pay taxes on anything ever. I certainly don’t. Especially not when I bought all of those shoes (that I actually don’t have). Or when I pay property tax on my home and my rental properties…

    I’d be willing to bet his default ‘taxpayer’ is a straight white dude -_-

  45. Ninja’ed by kitteh :D

  46. Also would you care to explain your obsession with white women fucking black men? No, no racism there at all!

  47. Wait. I just realized.

    How much do pro dommes charge for ‘feminist abuse online’?

    And Mikey’s been getting it here for free?!

    What a trickster.

  48. @ auggz

    Seriously, that part reminds me of a short lived ex. I couldn’t even look at a black dude in public without him spinning into a jealous rage! Spelled the end of that shit fest of a relationship, especially since several of my friends and coworkers are black and male.

  49. He lives in a Gorean or Ayn Randian fantasy world or both, people. The reality that women are actual human beings who do own property and pay taxes and deserve the right of self-determination do not fit within his fantasy world. He is what we call in some circles…deluded.

  50. Mikey, you FOOL, your little story about the 18 white women is LINKED TO on the red pill subreddit. You know about links on the internet, right?

    what’s your story David? What’s up with this blog? What’s your motivation for this forum?Are you just here to support whatever women define for you as correct or are you just the Urban Dictionary’s Definition of a Cuckhold?

    Well, one of the main reasons I do this blog is that I like to make assholes look like idiots.

    Weirdly, I’ve discovered that a lot of assholes are happy to come to my blog of their own free will and make themselves look like idiots, basically doing my job for me.

    See, for example, the comments of “Michael” in this thread.

  51. Seriously, I think we should send Michael a fruit basket in recognition of the entertainment he’s provided us with.

  52. “Seriously, I think we should send Michael a fruit basket in recognition of the entertainment he’s provided us with.”

    DONE!

  53. @cassandra Would a flaming bag full of dog shit on his front porch suffice in lieu of a basket of fruit? Because that is exactly what I think of his contribution to this blog.

  54. I have to admit this one amazing (and amazingly long) sentence. You manage to hit every MRA talking point in one awkward fell swoop, before crashing into the ground below.

    Dude fell out of the Stoopid Tree and hit every branch on the way down.

  55. I can’t believe he keeps coming back for more. But I like it.

  56. Let’s encourage him. Michael, please explain what made you think that auggziliary must be a spinster, and why you believe she’s lying about her age.

    Also please explain what a “bod job” is.

  57. I can’t believe he keeps coming back for more. But I like it.

    Given that he drops a lot of money, like thousands (or so he says) on chicks in platforms, and that he linked to a dominatrix specializing in “feminist abuse”, I’m guessing he’s a card-carrying masochist. And he’s looking for a free, um, RIDE.

  58. Fromafar2013, but he must have been such a nice guy! He sounds like such quality!
    I recently dumped my ex boyfriend as a friend, we had a relationship for 2 years and he got really stupid. It wasn’t just the racist jokes, but that did make me lose a lot of respect for him, especially with the tantrums he threw when I called him out.
    He basically wouldn’t stop with the Vine racist jokes, and went further, like using the n word and “black slang” casually, and just annoying stereotypes from vine videos. Also occasionally the jealous stereotyping, like “why does everyone say white guys can’t rap” or “why do Asians get the COOL stuff”(in an angry tone, not like a compliment). He was one of those guys that thinks that racist Vine videos are like the real world, and not just a joke(even as a joke they’re often problematic, obviously).
    He stopped after calling him out enough, but he was still a huge loser in other ways, so I dumped him, and then dumped him as a friend later. The last straw was when he told me I was “wasting everyone’s time” by talking to my therapist about my depression because he thought it couldn’t be cured anyways. He has no psychology background, and has never had a mental disorder.

  59. “Given that he drops a lot of money, like thousands (or so he says) on chicks in platforms, and that he linked to a dominatrix specializing in “feminist abuse”, I’m guessing he’s a card-carrying masochist. And he’s looking for a free, um, RIDE.”

    I was thinking the same thing.

  60. Also how the hell is 30+ a mans peak? That’s usually when men start to go “downhill”, health wise, and 30 was sort of old. A 20 year old dude would be way better. Far less risky. Much more healthy and agile. Less likely to get weak in a few years or have illnesses. Also they have higher fertility. Also way cuter, IMO.
    (Btw I don’t actually buy into evo psych. It’s just fun to apply their caveman logic to their lives).

    He never did address my pertinent questions about andropause and Viagra. Or “Just for Men” hair dye, either. I feel so unloved. >sniff<

  61. Whoa, sorry for the lack of paragraph breaks. They all got mushed together.

    Anyways I’m proud to join the legions of SPINSTERS. I don’t have a dog to walk though. *sigh*

  62. I want to hear about what would make Michael such a fantastic husband. What would a day in the life of your wife look like, Mike?

  63. Heh, I called him as a sub in denial pages back.

  64. So what does a domme specializing in “feminist abuse” actually do? Read to you from Sisterhood is Powerful while you are tied down?

    I want to know.

  65. Because mine was a big shepherd/husky cross who looked like the love child of a timber wolf and a grizzly bear. Looked fierce, but was a total suck. The only males who came near me when I walked him were little kids, who all wanted to hug my “doggie”. They weren’t fooled. Grown men, on the other hand, just passed me with a nervously respectful hello and a wide berth around the dog

    My dog is the exact opposite. He looks like a little angel, and people always want to pat him. But he hates people touching him, and often barks at strangers. At least he would rather skitter away from people than bite them.

  66. I think she probably calls you a creep and threatens to divorce you.

  67. So what does a domme specializing in “feminist abuse” actually do? Read to you from Sisterhood is Powerful while you are tied down?

    I want to know.

    I’m sure Mikey could answer that question.

  68. So what does a domme specializing in “feminist abuse” actually do? Read to you from Sisterhood is Powerful while you are tied down?

    I want to know.

    Whips you with the works of Dworkin and McKinnon, I imagine. I dunno, I’m so unkinky myself, it’s kind of hard to visualize.

  69. In Mikey’s case she’d definitely need to berate him about how poor he is.

  70. So what does a domme specializing in “feminist abuse” actually do? Read to you from Sisterhood is Powerful while you are tied down?

    I want to know.

    *feminist dom walks in, sees Mikey tied up*
    “… SPINSTER”
    “I’m sorry I just can’t do this. This is so obnoxious” *leaves*

    Then he’s untied, and he’s in Internet tough guy mode, leaving him enough anger to wank over for several hours.

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