Dalrock on why men should avoid women who’ve wasted “a lot of courtship” and “used up their most attractive/fertile years.”
Woman with surplus courtship
Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.
Here are a few of them:
Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP). This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.
Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.
As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process. However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.
Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.
But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!
Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.
He needs to manage risk vs reward. When courting, there are two fundamental risks. These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.
So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!
For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important. The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.
Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.
Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.
This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”
And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”
That Churchill, what a card!
Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married; unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.
Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)
They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …
Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma; older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.
Well, you could always marry a dude.
There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.
Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”
The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.
Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?
Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.
But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage. For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.
That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?
As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:
But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).
Posted on November 18, 2013, in a woman is always to blame, evil old ladies, evil sexy ladies, evil women, marriage strike, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, oppressed white men, patriarchy, playing the victim, reactionary bullshit and tagged marriage strike, misogyny, traditionalism. Bookmark the permalink. 1,428 Comments.
Doesn’t matter what I say – as long as it makes me look positive in some way or validates my points almost every deluded thirty something, SPINSTER and/or divorcee here will claim its a lie’ untrue, mock a straw man accusation etc.
Nothing I have stated here is a lie. By the way, platforms are sexy. Again it’s not about what you think is attractive, its about what men think is attractive.
Your are mostly older unmarried bitter women deluded in denial. Most of you are also very skilled at emotional diatribes , wishful thinking, and POINTING OUT THE EXCEPTIONS to the rule.
http://collapsereport.com/2013/12/22/alone-and-dying-the-horrific-fate-the-modern-single-woman-faces/
Dude, what we put on our feet is about what we like, not what you like. Nobody gives a shit what you like.
How was LAX, Michael?
And…were you in first class or coach? I mean it doesn’t matter or anything but your syntax was so confused and now it’s bugging me.
(Also, you may want to reconsider the wisdom of drunk commenting. Your already shaky grasp on grammar, punctuation, and sentence structure has now deteriorated to the point where there’s no way anyone is going to believe you got into law school.)
Why should we think you’re telling the truth about anything, Mikey? Trolls like you have a history of telling really obvious lies here.
If you’re so happy and succcessful, why are you spending so much time screaming in caps at women (and men – your dudely lawyer brain doesn’t seem to have grasped that there are men here) you consider beneath your notice?
If you’re so happy, how come it’s you who’s ranting and carrying on, and us who’re pointing and laughing at you, and enjoying treating you as the chewtoy you are?
I mean seriously, what is this supposed to mean when translated from screeching ragemonkey into English?
Goodness knows. He’s got to the point of using familar words in ways that don’t make much sense. Not that he had far to go to reach that point.
Typical he thinks what women wear is all about whether men think it makes us more fuckable or not. I don’t know any men who think platforms are attractive, and even if, say, Louis said he did, I wouldn’t be giving myself incredibly sore feet and risking a broken ankle because of it. Mind you he’s not the sort of douchebag who’d expect me to.
Mr C describes obvious platforms as looking like the women in them are wearing bricks on the bottom of their feet. I have nothing against them as part of a look where it fits, but sexy? Only because dudes like Michael associate them with strippers.
Mr C summed it up perfectly. They look so heavy and clumpy, the current ones even more than the 1970s ones. Women in them look uncomfortable, awkward and very vulnerable, to me, though I don’t suppose they feel that way about them. I wouldn’t be surprised if that sort of thing is what turns creeps like Mikey on.
They’re harder to walk in than heels, that’s for sure. I’m fine in them (gymnastics ans ballet background paying off there), but a lot of people do end up sort of tottering, which I’m sure is sexy to someone who’s scared of the idea of women having any power.
I still think it’s the association with strippers that makes some men love them so much, though.
Michael.
I am not unmarried. Or older.
I am not telling you this because I’m trying to brag or to convince you of anything. I’m simply saying it because anything you say about me being old and alone just Doesn’t. Mean. Anything.
I don’t know which I’d be worse off in, platforms or heels. If the platforms were like the old sort that were a little flatter – ie. the heel not hugely higher than the sole – I could manage for a bit, though it’d be terribly clumpy. High heels hurt my feet the second I put them on, and I couldn’t wear them with orthotics anyway. Flats are my shoes!
Right, time for Foyle’s War, niters!
So far in terms of the people who Michael is arguing with we have two people who meet his description (older, unmarried, though both a lot happier than he is, and isn’t that funny?) and everyone else is either married or much younger or both. But still, SPINSTERS!
Wait, does David count as a SPINSTER? I guess not because he’s a man.
@ cassandrakitty
That’s why women and 5 trillion per year on the “beauty industry” in the us – because they don’t give a “shit” about what men think….
@ Katz
Dirty and overcrowded.. yet visually stimulating. First class Virgin America. I rarely fly coach except on international flights.
@ kitten serf
Silence SPINSTER. You invisible shrew. Prove your under 30 or quit making that shrieking noise.
I said we don’t care what you specifically think, Michael. Your opinion is of no importance at all to anyone here, no matter how much you shriek at us in all caps.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL you haven’t validated your points. You keep repeating unsubstantiated assertions as though repetition is the means through which facts are created. They’re not. And thinking you have created a positive look for yourself by the screeds of text you have typed here is more proof that you’re an idiot.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Yeah, because all men have a hive mind when it comes to rating people for attractiveness. *You* find platforms (are you sure you mean platforms and not stilletos?) attractive.
Dude, check out the definition of projection, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
Dude, if there a loads of exceptions, then it’s *not* a rule. Your assplucks are *not* a rule. Your personal preferences are *not* a rule. Typing in caps does not make your argument stronger, it just demonstrates that your caps lock key is working. Congratulations, you have that in common with many trolls.
He seems to honestly believe that if he asserts his belief that his opinions are more important than ours often enough it will become true. Yay magical thinking.
*pulls data back up* Survey says…more than half of us are under 30! And another 30%~ are 30-39. In fact…25 is the cut off right? 29.5% of us were under that as of the survey.
PS — I got my iPod touch and am LOVING having three ‘net screens. I can watch things, be here and have the survey data at my fingertips!
Tell me you’re a parody, Mikey. This is just too funny.
And that would be “you’re” not “your”. I shouldn’t have to keep telling you this, you with your mighty lawyer brain.
Can you say “diploma mill”?
@cassandra, you’re too unkind. Maybe he got A grades because he was on a sports scholarship.
Tell me, Mikey: What does it feel like to lead such a miserable, empty and shitty existence that you feel the need to make up outrageous lies about yourself to random strangers on the Internet? How does it feel to have a bunch “SPINSTERS” and “shrews” point and laugh at you? How does it feel when people you hold in such contempt obviously live such happier and more fulfilling than yours? I bet it leaves a pretty bitter taste in your mouth.
You really do need to do some deep soul searching, Mikey. All this rage and bitterness isn’t good for a person. You really need to start taking responsibility for your own life instead of blaming all your personal failings on women.
And you have yet to prove anything. Where’s all these citations and peer reviewed research that you claim Dalrock uses to back up his “theories?”
Not everyone dislikes a shrieking shrew…
Wait, I thought marriage was evil and only for beta chumps, so aren’t women supposed to become spinsters?
Michael is such a trendsetter that his flying habits are the exact opposite of those of every relatively wealthy person I’ve ever met, not to mention every corporate travel policy I’ve ever encountered. You go, Mikey! Next year everyone will be doing it!
You miss the point, Michael. You’re probably lying about at least a few details of your life, but even if every word was true, you are still a much less appealing option than never being in a relationship ever again.
Speak for yourself, Michael.
I love it when guys like Mikey get screechy and demand shit. Mikey, why should we prove a thing to you?
Platforms…on the right shoe with the right outfit they’re fine. I can walk better in those than in heels. I can’t do the platformed stillettos, those are just an ankle break waiting to happen for me.
Fuck off, you has-been fratboy. Nobody here has to prove anything to you…least of all such an irrelevant thing as her age.
I suspect he’s billing domestic flights to clients and international flights are on his own dime, which is why he’s doing it backwards. So he’s billing unnecessary frills to the client. That’s not a sound plan for growing your business, there’s a reason most business travelers fly coach.
So why did you say you were flying coach? Just trying to get a sense of how you communicate here.
@Valerian, l suppose that’s plausible. :)
Ah, I see. You’re just pulling whatever out of your ass, in a desperate effort to look good to all the single ladies. Nice to see you admitting to being a liar, Mikey.
The invitation to fuck off still stands, however.
I like how he’s on our blog telling us to shut up. Like “yes micheal, now only you can comment on this blog forever”.
Also no one wears make up for fun. It’s only for men.
Witchy kitty’s shrieking shrew-loving look is purrfect.
LOLOLOL another word Mikey doesn’t understand: “shrieking” vs “laughing”.
Also, platforms are sexy!
Heels when you probably can’t see your feet do not strike me as a good idea! I hope he doesn’t walk down any stairs. Broken ankle in 3 … 2 … 1 …
I haven’t a clue how much my wife weighs. Not even the teensiest idea.
In fact, come to think of it, I don’t know how much I weigh – I last weighed myself several years ago for a medical exam, reported the figure to the doctor, and promptly forgot it. It’s just not something that makes the slightest difference to me about whether or not a person is fun to be around.
Auggz — hey now, I wear makeup for fun. I’m gonna guess most other people playing at femininity do too. Do most women wear makeup for fun though? Oh hell no!
I like stilettos and heels, although I only wear them if the place I am going to is easily accessible (not a lot of walking and/or transit) and I’m not dancing or something. I also wear them because I think they complete some of my outfits. I like fashion *shrugs*.
I definitely don’t wear them for men to leer at me. That happens regardless of shoe choice because men don’t understand boundaries.
@ Argenti
I think Auggz was sarcastic about women only wearing makeup for men. Honestly, I think in most social situations wearing makeup, whether talking to a guy or girl, can have a positive affect. Like anything else you do for appearance, people do kind of respond and take cues from what you are wearing. Which is why I get into arguments with my mom about her decisions to wear sweat pants too much! I get that it’s comfortable, but people do unfortunately make snap judgements.
Earlier in the thread Michael offers a link to his first Dalrock post, which is an excruciatingly long version of his fertile girls are slutty whores, women over 30 are used up slutty whores and, by golly, I’m not marrying a slutty whore (especially one over 30) belief system. So, basically, this Mikey’s jam and I’m guessing he can go on forever saying the same thing over and over.
His Dalrock post does show a yucky obsession with sexually active women, Good Lord, he goes on and on about women getting used in “every hole” in every possible way. He pitches himself as “husband material”, lists his income to yet again, and doesn’t seem aware that some women may not want to spend the rest of there lives with someone who finds women’s sexuality repulsive.
He offers the plaintive cry of the ‘nice guy’.
He recounts a fakey sounding conversation he had in his dorm with “a room of 8-10 gorgeous white girls” about how they, surprise!, “can’t have their cake and eat it too”. They ignore his warning and continue on with their slutty slattern slutterly slut ways.
Cut to current rage-filled Michael.
You made your announcement Michael and no one cares. Seriously, you are a negative, hateful drag and no one cares about who you marry or don’t marry. Feel free to stop screetching about it across the interwebs.
http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/11/24/more-grim-news-for-carousellers-hoping-to-jump-at-the-last-minute/
@Argenti, don’t worry, I was being sarcastic. People who reduce everything about altering appearance down to sex are ridiculous. No one looks at men who get clean haircuts and wear fancy suits to work and say “they’re fake sluts just desperate to get laid”.
“Every hole”? Idk about that, ears and nostrils don’t seem too fuckable.
So he’s actively looking for a “gold digger”?
Auggz — k, I thought you were commenting on how socially enforced beauty standards are and just over generalized a bit. Whoops.
^Sorry, that last comment came across pretty racist, I was assuming by “eastern europe” he meant mail order bride.
Dear Christ, what a pitiful buffoon. He’s openly saying that he wants women to marry him for his money, and then says that he expects them to stay with him for life. Why? Besides financial support (a tap that he’ll presumably turn on and off at whim), what on earth is in it for them?
Entirely by choice, I haven’t had a girlfriend under 35 in more than twenty years, because our Mikey’s “entitled, ageing, feminist, jaded, baggage laden and brainwashed” is my “intelligent, self-aware, feminist [not a dirty word in my lexicon], experienced and knowledgeable”, all of which are immensely appealing traits to anyone who doesn’t regard women as practically subhuman. Mikey’s basic contempt for any woman showing even the merest sign of intelligence – let alone someone who has the temerity to answer back – is dripping from every one of his posts.
I pity his poor bride-to-be, but I daresay she won’t be sticking around. I spend a lot of time in eastern Europe, especially Poland, and I can just imagine the look of withering contempt that he’d get from my friends. Not least because the more likely they are to speak English, the more likely they are to see right through him.
@ Broke SPINSTER Brooke
“He recounts a fakey sounding conversation he had in his dorm with “a room of 8-10 gorgeous white girls” about how they, surprise!, “can’t have their cake and eat it too”.
-Again. This is what I’m talking about.This was not fake. What motive would have I to embarrass myself with a fake story? This story is real. That’s where I got the cake comparison from.
“They ignore his warning and continue on with their slutty slattern slutterly slut ways.””
– :) :) :) :) :) I’ve looked up 5 of the girls on Facebook. ONLY ONE IS MARRIED. Let me repeat that in case you not listening Broke SPINSTER Brooke: ONLY ONE IS MARRIED. The other 4 are single or “in a relationship” and others I can’t remember their last names. Do that math. Oh wait. I forgot. Your a women. (Just kidding). 1 out of 5 is a 20% success rate. I don’t know about you but to me that doesn’t exactly look very encouraging for young women conspiring to have their cake and eat it too.
“Seriously, you are a negative, hateful drag and no one cares about who you marry or don’t marry.”
-All you ladies can do is get upset. Call me names. Etc. Like child. As far as I’m concerned your all living proof that what Dalrock says is correct. You want to lead younger women down into the fire with you. I’m just hoping younger women will understand this, do the right thing, and avoid a possible life of booty calls. being married to a loser, and / or the eventual horrific life of a SPINSTER which is loneliness and pain.
Our actions have consequences:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/11/all-the-single-ladies/308654/
What is the obsession with Eastern Europe, just wondering? Is it just all the mail-order bride and fetishes, are they more sexist there, or do people just assume they’re more sexist there?
I think it’s because that’s the farthest from the West you can go and still have a ready supply of blondes.
I hope all these guys accidentally visit the Czech Republic. That would be a real awakening.
Their obsession with blondes is creepy. They go on about how all their attractions are biological, but it doesn’t make sense for them to obsess over blonde, white women unless they think that white, blonde people are superior. It’s not like blonde hair makes you healthier. It’s almost like Michael is totally racist.
@ cupisnique
“I like stilettos and heels, although I only wear them if the place I am going to is easily accessible (not a lot of walking and/or transit) and I’m not dancing or something. I also wear them because I think they complete some of my outfits. I like fashion *shrugs*.”
-Hey Sexy Gravatar :)
“I definitely don’t wear them for men to leer at me.”
Quick definition of leer: “look or gaze in an unpleasant, malicious, or lascivious way”
Do you want them to “leer” at you? No.
Lust, Desire, Covet and Crave? Yes.
That’s why you get dressed up in your stilettos and show off your nice tight fresh 26 year old rear view mirror. It’s also why women spend 5 trillion dollars a year on beauty products. You don’t do it because your not trying to impress anyone.
I learned the hard way to never listen to what a women says – only watch what they actually do. I should have listened to the guys in my youth I thought less of, as bad guys, who I thought were unfeeling, predators, pump and dumpers, pussy jugglers, and bros before hoes pick up artists.
Instead I listened women. I listed to what women said they wanted. I believed it, and with the help of my Seventh Heaven upbringing (which I would not trade for the world) become a hopeless romantic Princess Bride love wins in the end man; believing most women were Buttercups and being rewarded for his faith with nothing. I sat by and watched. Hearing them/seeing them/hearing of them getting pounded hard ratcheting up partner number counts in the prime of their youth.
I was told nice guys win in the end.
In reality they were saving the best of themselves for the last guy in line… You know …. the guy who gets the leftovers? The possible STD’s? YES – After she is aging/expired/old, looser, debt ridden, and ready to have a kid before her clock ticks at 11:59pm? YES. The guy she is ready to have pay her bills. The guy she can emotionally destroy and divorce anytime she is not “Haaaaapy” and take 50%+ his assets at will? You know.. the guy extorted for 18+ years of child support or alimony – possibly for another guys kid? This way she can dress up and pretend to be a self made independent or successful women while she goes on with life banging other guys with his money…
That guy. Yes him. Who wants to be that guy? :) Anyone ???
I think it’s very much the latter, but he’s going to be in for a major shock if he tries it on in Poland. Older Poles tend to be very traditional (and sexist and homophobic with it – just look at Lech Wałęsa’s somewhat unfortunate remarks about gays), but this is emphatically not true of the younger post-communist generation – and many of the most dynamic and entrepreneurial Poles I know are female.
And I suspect this may well be true in other countries – certainly the Czech Republic and very possibly elsewhere.
Of course, the Poles and Czechs that I hang out with tend to be highly intelligent and cosmopolitan English speakers, which is presumably the last thing that Mikey wants. (Or rather, if it is what he wants, he’s going to be in for an unpleasant surprise!)
What, you don’t?
I know the exact weight of everyone around me to three grams, because at any time I am ready to inject them with a severe but not lethal amount of tranquilizers.
Gotta know the weight for that!
How do you get through your day without randomly tranquilizing your friends? What an odd life to live.
“Almost”? He IS racist. No doubt about it. As well as age- and lookist.
And if he goes the mail-order-bride route, he’s gonna lose so hard. Soon as that girl learns some English and realizes what she married, she is gonna be so out of there. “Marriage for life” only works if you’re someone worth living with, and I see no evidence here that he is even a little bit that.
Speaking of Eastern European women here’s a picture of one.
I don’t think those men who think that Eastern European women are feminine would like her though. She is an athlete, obviously. She also serves, or served, in the Czech Armed Forces. And I don’t think her boyfriend and child would appreciate the men trying to make her their mate.
By the way her name is Barbora Spotakova, the gold-medal winning javelin thrower.
Poor Mikey – he’s so desperate for attention, any attention that he’s standing there yelling to the world “Look at me, look at me!”
Go and be happy, Mikey. Just stop yelling, ok. The adults are trying to have a conversation, over here.
It’s not even “Look at me, look at me!” with Mikey – it’s coming up to people in their spaces and screaming “I hate you, I hate you, shut up, look at me, look at me!”
Poor MIkey. Here he is, showing his alphadudeosity to us all with irrefutable proof (he
screamedsaid so) even though we’re so far beneath his notice, yet none of us is swooning and crying PLEASE PLEASE MIKEY I’M SO SORRY PLEASE TAKE ME.Seriously, Mikey, if I want an arsewipe, there’s this stuff called toilet paper. If I want a wonderful husband, I have Mr Kittehs. There aren’t any job vacancies for you.
Heh…time was, they said women couldn’t throw a javelin. Or pole-vault. They, of course, being the MRAs of the day.
MRAs must be exhausted, fighting to maintain all that anger & denial.
It’s modern feminism from the West poisoning all those nice blond Russian and eastern European girls. Back in the day, they were all sweet and feminine and submissive. Like this one.
Ah yes, those submissive Russian ladies. They beat the US at getting a woman into space by 20 years. And Valentina Tereshkova is still living, too!
Michael, racist?
What a bag of shit Mikey is.
Sorry, did I say “bag of shit”? I meant to sat matrimonial catch, honestly, Can’t think how “bag of shit” slipped out.
Sexist, homophobic, and racist?! I never knew there was such a combination!
Michael, I’m also waiting for you to explain why we should actually do what you say, if everything you’ve said is true.
A young woman is “wasting her time” on a man she’s dating, because he’s going to leave her at his “peak” when she starts getting some sun spots. Also a man isn’t going to fuck or marry any woman over 30.
I can give up my career and date some “quality” man that I’m not happy with for less than a decade, have his unwanted kids, and have him leave me for a younger woman(or die) so I’m alone and poor for the rest of my life with unwanted kids. OR I can get a career, have a great sex life, be happy, have no unwanted kids, and then live my 30’s+ happily with my career.
So, what you “warning” me about again?
^This is assuming love doesn’t exist, and that his theories on men and women’s “peaks” are legit, or that women who sleep with lots of men are lowering their worth somehow(our bodies and love are like cake apparently).
Maybe I’m just not going back far enough. Go back a few hundred years, and then all ladies were sweet and feminine and submissive, for sure. Like this one.
Awful white of ya, Mikey.
And how’s that chip on yer shoulder from being passed over, over and over? Ha, ha.
LMAO at “didn’t even matter if he was black.” Totally missed that.