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Dalrock on why men should avoid women who’ve wasted “a lot of courtship” and “used up their most attractive/fertile years.”

Woman with surplus courtship

Woman with surplus courtship

Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.

Here are a few of them:

Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP).  This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.

Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.

As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process.  However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.

Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.

But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!

Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.

He needs to manage risk vs reward.  When courting, there are two fundamental risks.  These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.

So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!

For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important.  The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.

Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.

Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.

This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”

And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”

That Churchill, what a card!

Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married;  unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.

Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)

They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …

Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma;  older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.

Well, you could always marry a dude.

There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.

Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”

The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.

Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?

Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.

But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage.  For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.

That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?

As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:

fig_19_series_23_no_22_p_27

But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).

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Posted on November 18, 2013, in a woman is always to blame, evil old ladies, evil sexy ladies, evil women, marriage strike, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, oppressed white men, patriarchy, playing the victim, reactionary bullshit and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink. 1,428 Comments.

  1. My vagina is magical. Whenever I see a screeching ragemonkey of a misogynist talking it somehow manages to retreat even further inside my body and close itself up like a vault.

  2. Okay, how do I set my magical vagina to dispense milk and cookies to all the Nice Guys™ and Quality Men™ who’ve been laying siege to it over the years?

    Oh wait. What am I saying? I’m supposed to be giving out chips and cake to the Alpha Males™ from the Cock Carousel, aren’t I?

  3. Missed the sink water thing. Maybe he lives where fraking has made the water flammable?

    I know I still amaze people when I just go for the sink, they assume all of PA has that problem so Pittsburgh water must’ve been undrinkable (it isn’t, it’s just fine, other than having no water hardness to speak of which made it hell to maintain a pH in the tanks). But I keep fish, the safety of the tap water is sorta high on my concern list, and I’ve never had any that wasn’t okay (granted, one of the sinks here tests weird pH wise, idk what’s up with that, but it isn’t the sink I usually use, so whatever)

    Also, yeah, living by the ocean just kinda is a thing. I suppose it might be interesting if you just moved there, but New Haven is like a mile that way and the harbor is thus right the fuck there. Now, Long Island sound is a bit gross, but it’s like “yep, the ocean is right there, your point?”

    As for NC, so much yes to the idea of visiting the outer banks, loved it there (that’s actually where I fell for hermit crabs and where my ownership of assorted tanks started…nearly 20 years later I’m up from a small tank to four — 55g, 30g, 29g and the 2.5g snail tank)

    And should my options ever be “alone with pets” or “marry to avoid that”…well…I do still want stingrays…

  4. Seriously, if my choice was to have titianblue’s life or to have Michael’s life, I’d pick titianblue’s, because she seems a lot happier and more at peace with herself. There’s only so much anger and misery that an ocean view can make up for.

  5. Oooo.. I have a oil painting on my wall of a beach at low tide (with these wonderful rocks exposed, nice bold almost abstract oil, I seem to be one of the few that love this painting, but I digress). So I have an ocean view in my living room. Which is pretty cool as I’m surrounded by bush on 2 sides.

  6. I’d rather live in hill country and forests than by the sea (but not here, because bushfires) given the choice anyway. The whole living by the sea thing seems to presume it’s a warm/hot climate, and blow that for a game of soldiers. Only time I liked walking by the sea here was in autumn/winter.

    Seconding about titianblue’s life being waaaaaay better than Mikey’s. Mine’s not that different, except no chickens; my existence here is very prosaic, but it’s far happier than Mikey’s. And that’s before counting in the Mr Kittehs factor. ;)

  7. “Which is pretty cool as I’m surrounded by bush on 2 sides.”

    When I read this I pictured a bunch of George Bush pictures plastered on the rest of the walls 0.o.

  8. Cassandra — yep, and she has an undergardener! (Or is the chicken the overgardener? Please apologize to the feathered one if I’ve mistaken her role)

    Also, his GF’s BMI? Something feels off, because that’s about where pecunium’s scrawny ass falls and he’s SMALL, like, lower than army BMI requirement small. Unless she’s naturally tiny, like him…there’s nothing healthy about dieting to that weight. I couldn’t do it without flat out starving myself, even when I was swimming like a fish, and I’m naturally barely into the “normal” BMI range. I have concerns in other words. I hope she’s just naturally as skinny as pecunium, and he isn’t doing any psychology shit to make her think she has to stay smaller than she naturally is.

    Tangentially, Pecunium is an amazing cook, if he ever offers to feed you, take him up on the offer.

  9. Kitteh — *dies laughing* warm? In August. Four feet of snow with last year’s blizzard. I was actually not “invited” to shovel because it would’ve been to my armpits. (Usually I have to get my brother to convince our father that he’s better suited for it, being built like a bear and not having evil joints)

    Auggz — huh, I never thought of low tide as pretty, I guess I’d need to see it without being able to smell it. The smell of rotting seaweed just doesn’t come off as pretty. The tide pools are fun though, gotta get a ride to the fort once it warms up (there’s a revolutionary war fort not far from here, I have no interest in that part, but the way they built it into the shore has resulted in some easily accessible tide pools)

  10. What struck me as odd about that was, how many people know their partner’s weight to the exact pound, especially when they’re not married or living together? I could have given you an approximate weight for most of my boyfriends who I didn’t live with, but it would have been “about 140 pounds” rather than “exactly 142 pounds”. Is this a case of assfax or does he quiz the poor woman daily and make her order salads if she’s gained a pound since the last weigh-in?

  11. Or he made her weight up, just like the rest of her.

  12. I can’t even estimate a person’s weight to the nearest kg. But I do love how guy clothes sizing is very consistent compared to women’s (for example, in one range I go from a 6 to a 12 in trousers/skirts, depending on the particular garment, and that is within one season).

    One guy (who ended up being terrifying psychotic) got me a lacy bra and briefs for my birthday present. And they were the correct cup size as well as the right size. We had been dating for two months. It freaked me out, and also annoyed me as I had said I really wanted a detail sander. This was the guy that did stalking, etc. He was/is a white collar IT professional (programmer).

  13. 107 for 5′ 7″ is ridiculous. That’s a 16.8 BMI. I know BMI generally isn’t the best way to measure health, but goddam, <18.5 is considered underweight. There might be a few who have that naturally, but that's extremely rare.
    Actually, I looked up that BMI because I was curious to see what it would look like, and Kate Moss had the exact same height and weight.
    I'm sure she's as real as his beach house, but it's still somewhat disturbing.

  14. I don’t even know my weight that well. It ranges like 115 – 120(low) or 120 – 125(working out more) in a week usually.

  15. For those BMIs, would the woman still menstruate? And they’re probably cutting out food like dairy and not substituting in equivalent nutrients from other foods – hello early onset osteoporosis.

  16. @kiwi girl
    “One guy (who ended up being terrifying psychotic)”

    Can we not use “psychotic” in a negative way? I think you meant psychopath/sociopathic. Psychotic is like disorders like schizophrenia.

  17. So many comments to read thru!

    I have been following Michael’s story on Dickey’s blog for awhile.

    Am I the only one who finds it really scary that he says he is now seeing a 23 year old?

  18. Found an Australian weight/BMI chart for females aged 2 to 20 years: http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcsite.nsf/pages/bmi4child

    Taking 107lb to be 48.5kg, you can see that by age 13 years, less than 50% of females are this weight, and by 18 years less than 25% of females are this weight.

    This means that 107lb should *not* be a target weight for most of the adult female population. Disordered eating, with its physical and psychological effects, is not something to encourage.

  19. @aug, my bad, I mispicked the word, yes I did mean psychopathic.

  20. She is 5-7 and 107 lbs and to die for in platforms. She is model material. BTW I’m in first class back to LAX. Check my IP address David Mangina. Oh wait nevermind I’m in coach. Idiots.

  21. Eh, some people really are naturally that thin, so I think it would be better if we didn’t assume that someone that size has an eating disorder. What weirds me out about it is more what Kiwi Girl was saying – how does he know, down to the exact pound? That’s just not something that people normally know about their partner, especially at the casual dating stage.

  22. @cassandra, yep, which is why I said it shouldn’t be a “target weight for most of the adult female population”. With the wording I was trying to recognise that there are people who are naturally and appropriately that weight. I was thinking about tall women who are trying to diet to impossibly low weights. Perhaps I should have typed that more exactly. I certainly wasn’t trying to discourage naturally, very low underweight females from trying to forcibly put on weight.

    /sigh I’m having a bad time of expressing myself at the moment.

  23. My guess still remains that this woman is imaginary, since I don’t think Michael would be this angry if he actually was able to find himself a succession of hot young women to date.

  24. Have a look at the Alpha Male thread – catgirl just mentioned some gross (and grossly stupid) stuff Mikey comes up with.

  25. @ Cassandra’s kitty

    She’s not imaginary…

    David please advise how to upload videos ….

  26. Argenti,

    What’s the fort? Maybe I’ll check it out the next time I visit my sister.

  27. Cloudiah — Fort Nathan Hale — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Nathan_Hale

    Down the backside of powder hill I think it is, but it might be behind the fort itself. Like I said, I’m in it for the tide pools.

    Regarding her weight — like I said, pecunium is naturally that tiny, and I have to basically survive on chocolate and pasta to hit 19. So certainly some people are just that thin, but trying to be that thin isn’t safe (really, trying to be much thinner than your natural weight isn’t safe, dieting just isn’t healthy) — I’m hoping she’s either made up, or naturally as skinny as Pecunium, trying to be that small makes me shudder and it’s a bit over 1 point less than my natural weight, I can’t imagine it’s healthy if you aren’t just that thin cuz genetics.

    As for knowing her exact weight, only meds psych from hell has cared about my weight to that degree (seriously, I’m a 1/2 lb lighter than two weeks ago? And this is a thing I have to answer for?! Idk, I must’ve had a light breakfast? Heavier jeans?)

    Idk if she’d still menstruate, I’ve never known someone with a uterus who was naturally as thin as pecunium — people in the 18~19 range seem to from what I know though, idk less than that besides that gymnasts don’t tend to.

  28. She is 5-7 and 107 lbs and to die for in platforms. She is model material.

    Platforms? Are you sure she’s not a stripper? Not that there’s anything wrong with that. But you sound kind of gullible.

  29. He wants to post videos here, to prove. . . something? To US?

    Michael, if that really is your name, nothing you can post here can possibly undo what you’ve already done. That bed is made, bucko; all that’s left is for you to sleep in it.

    Alone.

  30. Robert, please accept this virtual up-vote and a plate of bon-bons. :)

  31. Does your girlfriend know you’re here? I wonder how she’d react to reading some of your, uh, “theories”.

  32. Now Mikey wants to know how to post videos of some random woman he found on YouTube.

    But seriously, Mikey, if you really are who you say you are, with the life you claim to live, why are you so miserable and unhappy?

  33. Platforms, huh? Oh, now I get it. Sub in denial.

  34. 107 for 5′ 7″ is ridiculous. That’s a 16.8 BMI. I know BMI generally isn’t the best way to measure health, but goddam, <18.5 is considered underweight. There might be a few who have that naturally, but that's extremely rare.
    Actually, I looked up that BMI because I was curious to see what it would look like, and Kate Moss had the exact same height and weight.
    I'm sure she's as real as his beach house, but it's still somewhat disturbing.

    Oh cute, Mikey’s a Kate Moss fetishist, and he’s built his imaginary miss on her exact lines.

    And he dropped doody here again, too. From the airport, he claims. And Mr. Big Spender is now flying coach! Whatsamatter, Mikey, did the RealDoll run you higher than you expected?

    This is getting funnier by the minute.

  35. Also, platforms, Mikey? Are TACKY.

  36. I’m writing this to you from first class…wait, shit, that lie doesn’t work…I’m in coach! Not sure how that happened, but I am!

    Now to youtube to find some random young woman who I can pretend is my girlfriend. Sure she won’t mind if I ask her to confirm her height and weight.

  37. You don’t suppose he’s got a picture of his uncle Monty around, too? (Nah, I don’t think this is Pell, but the random-pic thing brought his esteemed uncle to mind.)

  38. It’s so funny how convinced he is that endless repetition of his claims to be rich and have a hot girlfriend will make anyone here take him more seriously and thus fear the SPINSTER PERIL.

  39. Poor Mikey. All he’s got is his fantasies…and a fistful of Jergens. I bet he whispers “SPINSTERS…SPINSTERS…SPINSTERS…” like a mantra while he’s jerkin’ it, too.

  40. This is the thing – nobody here wants him, so why should we care whether he has $$ and a hot girlfriend or not? Most of us have partners, and I’d say most of us, partnered or not, are better at being happy (even those of us who’ve had hellish stuff to deal with) than he is.

    He fails at fantasy, among other things. He’s utterly miserable and ragey, which makes no sense if he has all these wonderful accessories he claims, and means his fantasy isn’t working if he’s pretending he has them. (My money’s on the second, of course.) Not much point in boosting yourself with a fantasy if you only come out of it more ragefrothy than ever.

  41. BTW I’m in first class back to LAX. Check my IP address David Mangina. Oh wait nevermind I’m in coach. Idiots.

    …Not even sure what you’re going for here? Are you calling us idiots for potentially thinking you might be in coach? Or are you saying you really ARE in coach and we’re idiots for believing anything you say about yourself? Do you think the front and back of a plane have different IP addresses?

    But I’ll tell you that if you want to convince me, at least, that you have an enviable life, “on a plane going to LAX” is not the way to do it.

  42. Also, platforms, Mikey? Are TACKY.

    Please let them have clear heels with plastic goldfish swimming around in them.

  43. Your life would have to be pretty damn miserable for impending arrival at LAX to be a high point.

  44. That, or it was a really crappy flight.

    ::crosses fingers this does not come true in April::

  45. Please let them have clear heels with plastic goldfish swimming around in them.

    Or better still, piggybank slots. For all that money he’s spending to impress her, y’know.

  46. I think Michael must be one of the foolish grown-ups from The Little Prince. Specifically, this bit:

    If you were to say to the grown-ups: “I saw a beautiful house made of rosy brick, with geraniums in the windows and doves on the roof,” they would not be able to get any idea of that house at all. You would have to say to them: “I saw a house that cost $20,000.” Then they would exclaim: “Oh, what a pretty house that is!”

  47. Yikes!

    When I hear someone brag about how much a house cost, my thought is that it’s probably the fugliest thing you ever saw, because new houses here just are.

  48. hippodameia8527

    This asshat is still at it?

  49. I just looked up some of the “weekly spinster reports” on the Dalrock blog Michael told us about. Wow.

    They’re pretty much what we would all expect. Women being near him in stores are hitting on him if they aren’t wearing wedding rings.

    This dude’s a gold mine of mockability.

  50. After long exposure to the Bay Area real estate market with it’s million dollar “cottages” my response to discussions of house prices in most other places is “wow, what a steal”.

  51. Women being near him in stores are hitting on him if they aren’t wearing wedding rings.

    Only if they aren’t wearing wedding rings?

  52. Women with wedding rings are just looking to trade up to him and his super sweet rented condo.

  53. grumpycatisagirl

    Yep. Not wearing a wedding ring is a definite sign you are hitting on Michael.

  54. I just looked up some of the “weekly spinster reports” on the Dalrock blog Michael told us about. Wow.

    Women being near him in stores are hitting on him if they aren’t wearing wedding rings.

    And to think that we oh-so-ancient-and-decrepit SPINSTERS are sexually invisible to these guys. So invisible, in fact, that they go to all the trouble of writing detailed reports on how desperate and horny we all supposedly are, so they can slobberingly compare notes.

    Can’t…stop…laughing.

  55. grumpycatisagirl

    Late 30′s spinster follows me around and “plants” herself next to me at Costco. This isn’t actually “hitting on anyone” however when the same women with no wedding ring and a “desperate for dick” look stands next to you for 4 times in four different places pretending to look at the same thing 4 different times WITHOUT GRABBING ANYTHING FROM THE SHELF I would consider that her way of waiting for a guy to talk to her.

  56. grumpycatisagirl

    Blockquote fail. That was me directly quoting one of the weekly SPINSTER reports.

  57. It’s so funny how convinced he is that endless repetition of his claims to be rich and have a hot girlfriend will make anyone here take him more seriously and thus fear the SPINSTER PERIL.

    I think the Spinster Peril would be an awesome super-heroine.

  58. How does one learn what a “Desperate for Dick” look is? Sounds like a particularly bad Nixon campaign slogan.

  59. I think the Spinster Peril would be an awesome super-heroine.

    Sidekick to the Black Widow.

  60. Late 30′s spinster follows me around and “plants” herself next to me at Costco. This isn’t actually “hitting on anyone” however when the same women with no wedding ring and a “desperate for dick” look stands next to you for 4 times in four different places pretending to look at the same thing 4 different times WITHOUT GRABBING ANYTHING FROM THE SHELF I would consider that her way of waiting for a guy to talk to her.

    He’s probably standing right in front of the shelf that has whatever item the woman is trying to get and she’s hoping he’ll take a hint and move so she can reach it.

  61. Why was he standing there long enough for her to look at the shelf 4 times and not take anything?

  62. @Myoo, that explains her facial expression. It was more of a “why the fuck are you standing in front of the thing I want, can’t you take a hint dumbass?” rather than “give me penis stranger”.

  63. Late 30′s spinster follows me around and “plants” herself next to me at Costco. This isn’t actually “hitting on anyone” however when the same women with no wedding ring and a “desperate for dick” look stands next to you for 4 times in four different places pretending to look at the same thing 4 different times WITHOUT GRABBING ANYTHING FROM THE SHELF I would consider that her way of waiting for a guy to talk to her.

    She’s comparison shopping, dude…and you ain’t the merchandise. Sorry.

  64. grumpycatisagirl

    Reading another spinster report . . . man, if you thought he sounded angry and used excessive capital letters over here . . .

  65. At the very least, he’s the merchandise that gets …

    Wait for it, wait for it …

    Left on the shelf!

  66. Yup, Mikey just tipped his beta hand there. If she’s THAT desperate for the D, wouldn’t she at least make small talk about the weather? Nope…not a word. And he’s pissed. PISSED. That she wouldn’t talk to him. HIM!

  67. Wait, Costco’s? What’s big-shot Mikey doing shopping at a discount buy-in-bulk store?

  68. And why would anyone looking for a rich man go to Costco and not, say, Whole Foods?

  69. (BTW I’m writing this while being carried on a sedan chair by a cluster of male models, who are feeding me peeled grapes and wheeling along my personal WiFi tower.)

    This reminds me of a song by Blue Oyster Cult (my sister went through a B.O.C. phase, so I heard it incessantly). The slightly re-worked chorus:

    Come on baby
    (Don’t fear the SPINSTER)
    Baby take my hand
    (Don’t fear the SPINSTER)
    We’ll be able to fly
    (Don’t fear the SPINSTER)
    Baby I’m your man

  70. Regarding our relationship statuses…

    Survey says…36.5%!! (600~ out of 1,640) No clue how many are happy relationships, but it seems a safe guess that at least a third of manboobz readers are (or were at the time of the survey) in happy relationships. Another 10%~ were single and not looking, implying nearly half of us are quite fine with our current relationship status. Most of the rest just didn’t answer the question.

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