Dalrock on why men should avoid women who’ve wasted “a lot of courtship” and “used up their most attractive/fertile years.”

Woman with surplus courtship

Woman with surplus courtship

Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.

Here are a few of them:

Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP).  This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.

Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.

As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process.  However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.

Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.

But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!

Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.

He needs to manage risk vs reward.  When courting, there are two fundamental risks.  These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.

So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!

For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important.  The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.

Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.

Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.

This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”

And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”

That Churchill, what a card!

Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married;  unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.

Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)

They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …

Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma;  older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.

Well, you could always marry a dude.

There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.

Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”

The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.

Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?

Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.

But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage.  For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.

That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?

As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:


But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon, Time.com, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on November 18, 2013, in a woman is always to blame, evil old ladies, evil sexy ladies, evil women, marriage strike, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, oppressed white men, patriarchy, playing the victim, reactionary bullshit and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink. 1,428 Comments.

  1. kittehserf MOD

    Earthly relationships don’t work. The only way to have true love is with someone in Spirit. I have the answer to this and it works perfectly because of my versatility, also I throw parties so cool nobody’s cool enough to be invited. I am here to tell you you’re all doin it rong.

  2. The problem with Hawaiian pizza is the cooked pineapple. Picking the pineapple off and throwing it at your dinner partner is no good, so the only answer is meat-lover’s pizzas. I go to cool parties that you aren’t cool enough to go to, and we eat meat-lover’s pizzas and make fun of you for eating your stupid miserable Hawaiian pizza.

    Oh, Viscaria, I weep for this generation. The hubris of thinking you can just put aside tired-and-true combinations and do things your own way. When you eat a pizza, you have to take the good things with the bad. The pineapple just has to be worked through, one grimacing bite at a time, until you finally reach a decent stretch of Canadian bacon and mozzarella. That pineapple makes you appreciate the Canadian bacon even more, y’see?

    And if you happen to get one of those pies that happens to be all piping hot tropical fruit…well, maybe that’s the pizza maker trying to tell you something. Maybe you need more Vitamin C, and that’s the best way for you to get it. You’ll be glad when don’t get scurvy.

    You know what doesn’t have Vitamin C?

    Meat-lover’s pizza.


  3. cassandrakitty

    We are well known in London for our sex parties and many of our male guests are married men.

    You’re the creep who used to hit on me at the bus stop in Lancaster Gate by muttering about how he and his wife would love to get to know a sweet young thing like me, aren’t you? Tsk, some people just don’t improve at all with age.

  4. You’re all wrong.

    Sausage and onion pizza is the one true pizza. All other pizzas are immoral.

  5. I’m mostly a vegetarian, but I fall off the wagon regularly. One of my most spectacular tumbles was when I threw myself headlong off that old wagon to eat a sausage and pepperoni pizza at Roseland in Derby, CT.

    Anyone who eats any pizza other than that is a poppyhead.

  6. I’m currently eating a lime-infused hamburger stuffed with guacamole, wrapped up in lettuce instead of a bun. It’s very, very good. (Actually, I’m on a break between helpings, because it’s way too juicy to eat while internetting.)

  7. cassandrakitty

    I’m about to have pasta sauce with sausage and mushrooms (while watching Shaun of the Dead). I apologize for stealing the sausage that could have gone on a free-loving pizza.

  8. cassandrakitty

    BTW, on a zombie-ish note, check this out.

    I want to see manosphere responses to this one, so trolls, here’s your chance! Someone on Manboobz is finally asking for your opinion on something.

  9. RE: Fibinachi

    Of course the bonus part is I just got to re-read the WIZARD SPAM BOT post again, slightly up above.

    I put on my cloak and wizard hat and nominate Wizard Spam Bot for Troll of the Year!

    RE: Unimaginative

    I’m currently eating a lime-infused hamburger stuffed with guacamole, wrapped up in lettuce instead of a bun.

    My husband wants this. I too want this. What I’m saying is, GIVE IT TO US.

  10. Anonymouslazycat

    Screw you guys, pineapple is great on pizza


  11. Avocado-Stuffed Chile-Lime Burgers by Joshua Weissman (he blogs at slimpalate.com, but this recipe’s only in his book). All instructions paraphrased, because really, recipes are only suggestions.

    1 egg
    1 lb ground beef
    1/4 teaspoon pepper
    1 teaspoon chipotle chili powder
    1/4 teaspoon smoked paprika (I used sweet, don’t like smoked)
    1/2 teaspoon salt, plus more to taste
    zest and juice of 1 lime, divided
    1 large avocado

    1. Preheat grill to medium high heat.

    2. In a small bowl, mash together avocado, lime juice (and, if you’re me, salt, cilantro & chopped green onion). Set aside.

    3. In a larger bowl, moosh together everything else until it’s evenly mixed and sticks together. Divide it into an even number of balls (twice as many balls as burgers).

    4. Pat out half the balls into rather thin patties.

    5. Dollop some guac. onto each patty & flatten the dollop, leaving a small margin of meat around the edges.

    6. Pat the other half of the balls into thin patties and carefully lid the bottoms. Carefully pinch the edges together, and carefully pat everything into an even patty. Carelessness may result in leakage. That is okay, it’s just a little messy. And you lose a little avocado goodness.

    7. Grill each burger for about 6 minutes per side, until fully cooked and they’re the colour you like.

    Wrap in a lettuce leaf with some tomato, thinly sliced onion, pickles, relish, cheese, whatever you like, really. I always make way more burgers than I need because I like them at room temperature with a salad for my breakfast at work.

  12. I hope Scorpio knows that the sex parties need to be directly on the beach.

  13. kittehserf MOD

    That was a terrific little film, cassandra. Didn’t even need any sound with it.

  14. kittehserf MOD

    I hope Scorpio knows that the sex parties need to be directly on the beach.

    laughing too hard … can’t … breathe …

  15. Um, I should maybe clarify that the lime zest (grated) goes in the burger meat and the lime juice goes in the guacamole.

  16. Seeing David fight off nonsensical gibberish on multiple Twitter fronts is officially too confusing to follow. For instance, I don’t even want to know what T Mart means by “rape expansionists”.

    On the plus side, a sidekick MRA called David a “gamma rabbit”, please tell me that insult will catch on and replace “mangina”.

    Dear MRAs, “purple poodle” has homophobic overtones and “mangina” is a mangled slur, go with “gamma rabbit”. Gamma rabbit is a very cutting, harsh insult and is in no way adorable sounding. I repeat, calling men you don’t like gamma rabbit will make them very sad and ashamed of their male failure. It will not make them think of fluffy cute bunny rabbits hopping about, not even a little.

  17. kittehserf MOD

    Gamma Rabbit sounds like either the sidekick or the deadly enemy of Laser Death Kitty.

  18. Gamma Rabbit seems to be a Scalzi thing.


    That is, something that someone came up with to insult Scalzi for being insufficiently hyper masculine, or something.

  19. cassandrakitty

    That space bunny needs a tissue.

  20. kittehserf MOD

    Laser Snot!

    Here’s the link to the imgur page – the comments are really funny, apart from one creepy one near the end about “surprise sex”.

  21. Surely it should be gamma gerbil?

    They’re just chi-dding with these names, aren’t they?

  22. Phoenician in a time of Romans

    On the plus side, a sidekick MRA called David a “gamma rabbit”, please tell me that insult will catch on and replace “mangina”.

    “Gamma Rabbit” is something Vox Day came up with, demonstrating yet again that like the Dipshit he is, he just throws around terms without understanding them.

    The “Gamma” bit comes from their loony psycho-sexual babbling about “Alphas”, “Betas” etc which they think came from wolf-packs. Said science has since been revised, and further, they’re labeling someone who’s actually a success as a writer, a social success, and has a lovely wife, and a pretty amusing daughter as a “Gamma” – presumably because he treats women like people rather than pussy. Dipshit himself, of course, is a failure as a professional writer and socially, but labels himself an “Alpha”.

    The “Rabbit” bit demonstrates even greater levels of ignorance, since it refers to a wild misapplication of r/K selection theory. “Liberals” are supposedly r-selected, and have masses of offspring they treat with little investment – “rabbits” – and “rugged individualists” are K-selected, and have few offspring on which they lavish attention – “wolves”.

    Of course, all humans are K-selected, The theory doesn’t apply within a species, and even as a metaphor it fails – Scalzi himself has only one kid, whereas Dipshit has two.

    Dipshit, by the way, is a climate change “sceptic”, an anti-vaxxer, and an evolutionary “sceptic” – while calling himself a self-diagnosed “genius”…

  23. The “Rabbit” bit demonstrates even greater levels of ignorance, since it refers to a wild misapplication of r/K selection theory. “Liberals” are supposedly r-selected, and have masses of offspring they treat with little investment – “rabbits” – and “rugged individualists” are K-selected, and have few offspring on which they lavish attention – “wolves”.

    Remind me which side of the political spectrum believes in birth control, again?

  24. kittehserf MOD

    ::snicker:: You’d think blokes so obsessed with getting as much sex with as many women as they can would be pickier about their terms. Nobody says “at it like wolves”.

  25. Excellent short film. I’d seen clips of it, but not the whole film. Thanks for sharing.

  26. Argenti Aertheri

    That shortie was lovely, thank you.

    Kitteh — the sound isn’t needed, no, but the violin background is wonderful. And the end, she turned around when little Rosie cried, in case you were wondering.

    “loony psycho-sexual babbling” can we not with the ableism?

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