Dalrock on why men should avoid women who’ve wasted “a lot of courtship” and “used up their most attractive/fertile years.”

Woman with surplus courtship

Woman with surplus courtship

Dalrock, a manosphere traditionalist with a great love of charts and statistics and other accoutrements of SCIENCE, has managed to figure out a way to stretch “don’t be so picky, ladies, or you’ll get old and ugly and no man will ever want you” out to 1500 words.

Here are a few of them:

Men foot the searching costs in the marriage and sexual marketplace (MMP & SMP).  This means bearing most of the risk of rejection and expending the bulk of the resources to facilitate the process of meeting and getting to know one another.

Oh dear. We’re off to a very unpromising start here.

As the ones who bear the costs of courtship, men have a strong incentive to minimize the number of women they court and the overall duration of time spent in the process.  However, as the consumers of courtship, women have an incentive to draw the process out as long as possible and to receive courtship from as many men as possible.

Here’s some surveillance footage of an average American woman being courted by several men.

But now — get this — the ladies are waiting longer to marry!

Just think about what this does to the dude navigating the marriage market hoping to “maximize his Pareto efficiency,” if you know what I mean and I think you do.

He needs to manage risk vs reward.  When courting, there are two fundamental risks.  These are the risk of wasting resources on the wrong women, and the risk of rejection harming the man’s reputation/MMV.

So watch out, ladies, because if you wait too long, guys are going to decide you’re not much of a bargain!

For a man who is managing the risks of courtship outlined above, the age of a woman is very important.  The older a woman is, the more likely it is that she is very picky and/or not seriously looking for a husband.

Exactly! Because women never change their mind because they’re, you know, in a different stage of their life or anything.

Older women also are less attractive from a courtship perspective because they have used up more of their most attractive/fertile years, and while their attractiveness for marriage has declined their expectations for courtship have only increased.

This reminds me of that famous joke, you know, where that woman approaches Winston Churchill at a party and says, “Sir, you are drunk.”

And he replies: “And you, Bessie, have used up your most attractive/fertile years. But I shall be sober in the morning, and you will still have used up your most attractive/fertile years.”

That Churchill, what a card!

Consider the 25% of current early thirties White women who still haven’t married;  unless they are terminally unattractive an awful lot of courtship has almost certainly been wasted on them.

Are there really a lot of guys who look back on the women they dated in their twenties and think, “boy, I wasted a lot of courtship on those gals! I mean, I wasted nearly 14 courtship on Jessa alone!” (Also, who knew that the women are always the ones to blame when heterosexual couples in their twenties break up?)

They aren’t just bad bets for courtship today, but (in retrospect) they clearly were bad bets for courtship for the last 15 years. …

Put simply, the extended delay of marriage by women has placed marriage minded men in a dilemma;  older women are (generally speaking) known bad bets for courtship, but half of early twenties women are also poor bets for courtship.

Well, you could always marry a dude.

There are only two logical ways men can respond to women’s extension of courtship.

Wait, really? Please, please, please, let one of the ways be “marry a dude.”

The first logical choice is to recognize that these women are debasing marriage, and decide to “court” for sex and not marriage.

Damn. Anyway, sexual relationships are fine, but you are aware that there are other kinds of relationships — sorry, “courting” — besides sex and marriage, right?

Ok, we still have one more. Marry a dude. Marry a dude. Marry a dude.

But while “courting” for sex is a logical choice, it is not a moral choice, and we still do see men courting for marriage.  For these men, having a fairly low age cutoff makes a great deal of sense.

That’s your, er, “solution?” Marry a teenager? Or a woman at most in her early twenties?

As Dalrock knows, but doesn’t want to believe, those who marry when they’re very young are much more likely to divorce than those who marry when they’re older. For evidence, see this chart, which I found elsewhere on Dalrock’s own blog:


But hope springs eternal for modern misogynistic manospherian marriage market minded men (MMMMMMM).

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Posted on November 18, 2013, in a woman is always to blame, evil old ladies, evil sexy ladies, evil women, marriage strike, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, oppressed white men, patriarchy, playing the victim, reactionary bullshit and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink. 1,382 Comments.

  1. I missed the whole Qwerty thing, and since it was deleted I suppose I will never really understand what happened there. But I gather poor Qwerty had somehow gotten involved with this chucklefuck, and had a sudden realization about how chucklefuck-y he is.

    I hope she’s okay.

  2. Pretty much, cloudiah. Iirc, she’s the girlfriend he ranted about, and she told us about what nasty mind games he plays.

  3. Yeah, you have a bunch of choices for beach living in LA County, but none of them are “Los Angeles” and you usually get people being cagey about it because they want you to think that they are in Malibu (where all the super-rich have single families with private beaches) instead of a low-rise tower in Marina Del Rey or a dingbat in Santa Monica.

  4. Ah, Santa Monica, where Bette Midler kicked Danny de Vito off the pier … :)

  5. HE’S BAAAAAAAACK! (Hopefully because Qwerty dumped his ass.) And I’m kinda boggled how he seems to want us to be impressed by… his having lots of money, prestige, and a pretty girlfriend. Which we can’t prove, so why should we CARE?

    I mean, I’m a brokeass lunatic who lives in Ohio, and I work as an artist, and people don’t seem to care much. (Not anyone I’d want to associate with, anyway.) So who cares?

    This will be by final post on this man hating website.

    Suuuuuure, Mikey. We believe ya. Because David banned your ass, but I’m sure there’s going to be more attempted returns.

    Afterwards I have agreed with my girlfriend I will no longer post on these sites as it is doing me no good and is a non-productive waste of my time

    And yet, here you are.

    Enjoy your SPINSTERHOOD and denial ladies.

    Thanks! I’ll do that! *is actually a married guy, but there’s no reason for you to believe me*

  6. I can honestly say I’d rather stay in hostel in NYC than what passes for a penthouse in Charlotte.

    I’d rather stay under a rock than a palace that has Mikey in it.

  7. grumpycatisagirl

    But really, good to see our old friend hasn’t changed.

    To be honest, I got maybe unusually worried about Qwerty. I liked her and I really hope she is staying far away from him.

  8. Although, are we missing the key point here? Did Mikey just admit that he lets his girlfriend decide whether or not he’s allowed to post online and which sites he posts to? That’s not so ‘alpha’, Mikey!

  9. Grumpycat – at least a palace worthy of the name would be big enough to be able to avoid him.

    Especially if he was, as I suspect, confined to the kitchens or stables.

  10. grumpycatisagirl

    “claiming I was some unattractive low income loser troll in my mother’s basement.”

    Just curious, did anyone actually claim this? I don’t think any of us breathed a word about his mother’s basement, did we?

    So . . . hmm m m. I think there he goes with the lying again.

  11. grumpycatisagirl

    And yeah, dude, you are unattractive. Regardless of whatever you look like.

  12. I never thought Mikey was an unattractive low-income loser in his mother’s basement. He was totally a troll, though, and an incredibly unpleasant person I’d never want to have a beer with.

  13. Mikey’s like OKCupid liar dude, posting just enough vague statements (living in an apartment on the beach, look how at my really high income) to make it sound like he’s one thing, but the reality is somewhat different (doesn’t own apartment).

    I don’t give a shite about material things, except when the other person is trying to emphasize how great they are because of all their material stuff, and then it transpires they don’t have everything they were making out they had.


    I hope Qwerty has left him, he doesn’t want her in anything other than a trophy way. :(

  14. grumpycatisagirl

    David wrote:

    that he does indeed have a thin girlfriend in her 30s who (from all indications) could do a LOT better than him

    No, she’s in her 20s. God forbid Michael date a woman in her THIRTIES – that’s past the expiration date. You are a horrible misandrist for even typing that.

  15. I’m disappointed he isn’t a lair. I hoped he had lions in him.

  16. I’d bet we sniped that he’s a basement-dwelling troll, but I don’t recall specifics.

  17. “I’m disappointed he isn’t a lair. I hoped he had lions in him.”

    Why would you do that to the poor lions?

  18. Buttercup Q. Skullpants

    Dang, how did I miss this whole entire thread? Reading through it, all I could hear was a sweaty Chris Farley yelling “I live in a van DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!”

    Mikey’s been on quite the internet crusade. He’s left comments on other blogs by single moms and divorced women, lamenting the demise of ” social shaming” and warning of apocalyptic dooooooooooooooom for all the twenty-somethings who’ve ignored him (you can tell it’s him because he takes great pains to stress that he lives DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH). He’s very angry that it’s not the 1950s and he’s unable to terrify young women into glomming onto him with threats of SPINSTERhood.

    I didn’t see what qwerty posted, but I hope she moves on and has herself a fantastic life.

  19. You people called me a liar when I told you I was in fact, an attorney with a law practice, making 178k per year, living DIRECTLY on the beach in Los Angeles, CA, driving a high end luxury car, and hooked up with a model material female (in my opinion), far younger than me, with the same BMI height, weight as Kate Moss. Not forgetting the fact I spent a week in a Penthouse in Charlotte, NC with her which had a published rate of $800.00+ per night.

    Oh Mikey, I believe you are all of those things and a dingleberry with deep-seated insecurities, poor communication skills and a fearful loathing of women.

    Afterwards I have agreed with my girlfriend I will no longer post on these sites as it is doing me no good and is a non-productive waste of my time.

    You should listen to your girlfriend, because the fact that a man of your age, position and education spends time rage trolling and insulting strangers on message boards like a pissy, teenager is a very sad spectacle. It’s probably best if you wipe the spittle from your monitor and move on to more productive activities, like glaring angrily at all the evil flirty women at Ralph’s.

    That said, welcome back, you kooky wackadoodle!

  20. Again, all of you called me a lair and all of you were wrong.


    I take it you’re not a trial lawyer.

  21. Because you emotionally disagreed with me and it sit well with you to know a man of my education, income and means, is in fact the product of a feminist society, who went through involuntary celibacy while observing the behavior of young women in their prime in our post-feminist morally defunct society and is now, highly successful independent male who doesn’t need to date women in their 30’s who spent their twenties with everyone else but me.

    Sorry about the multiple posts, but I have to again applaud Mikey’s ability to cram a dozen Manosphere talking points into a single lumbering, barely comprehensible sentence.

    I take it you don’t write appellate briefs.

  22. Buttercup Q. Skullpants

    I take it you’re not a trial lawyer.

    He’s a trail lawyer.

  23. It is kind of amazing that he managed to graduate and pass the bar, if he’s telling the truth about being a lawyer. I’ve met plenty of lawyers who I have strong ethical disagreements with, but this is the first time I’ve encountered one who doesn’t seem to be able to handle basic logic, or even basic literacy. Would anyone read his comments and think “yep, I should hire that guy to handle my case”?

  24. He’s a trail lawyer.

    So perfect :)

  25. Short Mikey: “I am a supremely confident and sucessful man, but I need to make strangers on the internet miserable to assuage my self-worth! Why aren’t you miserable?”

  26. He’s a trail lawyer.

    A hearty genuine LOL
    Hopefully Mikey still reading and obsessing over what we say.

  27. I think people are being too harsh when pointing out that Mikey seems to have none of the skills required to be a good lawyer.

    If the AVFM had a contest in order to obtain a lawyer, I think Mikey would be a shoo-in and $300 richer.

  28. Jesus fucking Christ in a sidecar, this married person also thinks you are an insufferable bore, even if it is true that you are LAWYER and live DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH!

  29. Bloody hell Mikey, did you really think leaving it a month would mean we’d forgotten the comments that were deleted?

    Seriously, whether we happen to repeat what happened when you were screaming SPINSTERS on here last time, or not; most of us read the links and saved them for those rainy Sunday afternoons.

    You gave Mr Monarch and I a laughter filled evening in which I read aloud every pathetic thing you wrote on this thread and elsewhere.

    Your words have echoed around Man Boobz since you left: SPINSTERS, DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH, LA, CHARLOTTE.

    I admit I had a hard time remembering your name, but that’s okay, this thread will always be here as a reminder. Even when your name is a distant memory, your CAPS RAGE will be with us for all time.

    All in all your last visit made for a fun couple of days, my husband also found it endlessly amusing. We laughed, we cried with laughter, we laughed some more. (Oh, and we sympathised, and did not find funny, the way you treated people you came into contact with offline.)

    By the way, I’m in England, so that means people around the world were and are laughing at you. I’m sure I posted a video illustrating my profound amusement earlier in this thread.

    Teal deer: laughter, some more laughter, little bit of giggling, you are a disgusting waste of human skin, laugh, snort, laugh.

    (Best bit about this is that Mike is reading every word we post right now and spitting with rage at all the married and unmarried SPINSTERS and their refusal to do anything but find him alternately amusing and disgusting.)

  30. Hey, at least he’s spitting with rage DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH!

    This thread needs to get linked in the welcome package, or people are gonna wonder why we’re yelling about beaches and SPINSTERS!!

  31. I second the call (if that’s alright) for this to be a link in the welcome package. I’d forgotten all about Mikey and it took me forever to figure out where all the BEACHES! jokes were coming from.

  32. Guys, we can’t take this, any more CAPS LOCK from Mikey and we’ll have to get married to a “nice guy”!

  33. If I ever wonder what Mikey’s up to in the future, all I have to do is Google the phrase “DIRECTLY on the beach in Los Angeles.” “SPINSTER capital of the world” probably would also work pretty well.

  34. I took my dog for a walk DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH only yesterday, what with us living only fifteen minutes’ walk away. It didn’t seem like a particularly big deal at the time, although I’m clearly blinded by my privilege.

  35. Oooh yes, references to Mikey and his CAPS RAGE phrases should be in the Welcome Package!

    Hey Mikey, you’re so famous I even used your SPINSTERS line to laugh at you on another site. You’re mockworthy around the world and across the internets.

  36. You people called me a liar when I told you I was in fact, an attorney with a law practice, making 178k per year, living DIRECTLY on the beach in Los Angeles, CA, driving a high end luxury car, and hooked up with a model material female (in my opinion), far younger than me, with the same BMI height, weight as Kate Moss. Not forgetting the fact I spent a week in a Penthouse in Charlotte, NC with her which had a published rate of $800.00+ per night.

    Isn’t it interesting how people who don’t have any personal qualities worth trumpeting invariably fall back on boasting about superficial material things? And isn’t it fascinating how wide the gap between the impression that such people think they’re creating and the impression that they’re actually creating can get?

    This sentence in particular…

    hooked up with a model material female (in my opinion), far younger than me, with the same BMI height, weight as Kate Moss.

    …reads more like an entry in a livestock catalog than a description of a human being, never mind a human being with whom Mikey allegedly has some kind of emotional connection.

    In all seriousness, I know you’re all SPINSTERS and therefore have no partners to write about, but could you honestly use this kind of language to describe them with a straight face? Especially in the context of trying to impress intelligent people with a sense of humor?

    But the really sad thing is that Mikey seems to think that being “an attorney with a law practice, making 178k per year, living DIRECTLY on the beach in Los Angeles, CA, driving a high end luxury car” is something to be envied. Actually, the attorneys I’m far more likely to admire are the ones who represent people pro bono, because they believe in their cause. Ones who repeatedly boast about how much money they make and how much they spend on flashy consumer goods… maybe not so much.

    (For the record, I’m the son of a lawyer, and one who’s scaled far greater heights of professional success than our Mikey here. Although technically retired, he still puts in what by any normal standards are full-time hours working for good causes, for which he doesn’t charge a fee because the pension that he accrued during his career is more than enough for anyone to live on comfortably for the rest of their life – indeed, he gives away a huge chunk of it every year to charitable causes. Not only does he not drive a luxury car, he doesn’t own a car at all – and he’s been very happily married to the same woman, roughly the same age, for nearly half a century. Sorry, Mikey, that’s your competition in the “lawyers that I admire” stakes – and something tells me you’re not going to be mounting a serious challenge any time soon.)

  37. I have two cousins who’re lawyers. Despite various typical childhood spats, I still consider both of them far more admirable than Mr. condo on the beach here.

    This is, indeed, partly because neither of them would ever describe their partners in terms suggesting that they were trying to decide whether or not to purchase a pedigree dog.

  38. “In all seriousness, I know you’re all SPINSTERS and therefore have no partners to write about, but could you honestly use this kind of language to describe them with a straight face? Especially in the context of trying to impress intelligent people with a sense of humor?”

    Let’s see…my pharm student // lover // whatever label we’re using currently…nope, I already failed huh? Words that come to mind: awesome, hilarious, kind, able to pull off a top hat or mini skirt (and wear my clothes better than me, boo!)…with a BMI of idfk but gotta be close to mine since we can swap clothing.

    Yeah, I can’t do it, certainly not with a straight face! Particularly not now that I’m thinking of the face ze’d make trying to describe me like this.

    Thank you, I needed that laugh!

    How to impress y’all by describing zir? Chopped off zir braid and took a photo holding it up in one hand, looking at it like it’s some strange unrecognizable object, while holding where it came from with the other hand. (I love that photo, zir expression is priceless)

    But Mickey’s GF is model material. With apparently no personality, despite the fact everyone who saw her posts knows otherwise.

  39. Someone I know once spent the 15 minutes I was doing something else coming up with a dancing routine to perform with a hat, walking cane and the buttons to the clothes that person was wearing.

    That person is also wonderfully beautiful, but it’s not the thing that springs to mind.
    What I remember is the hours spent telling me about symbols, nonsense and a treatise on Alice in Wonderland (And how it related to perceptions of youth).

    It’s odd that some people think what might be most impressive about their partners is “Is a model, and has a certain weight”, because while maintaining a strict body image is impressive enough, there’s just so many other things.

    Oh, I also have a cousin who is a lawyer. He stopped working when he was 28 because by that point he had made enough money to be a stay at home dad, which he does and did, to take care of his 4 children so that his wife can work a bit more (The same wife that is the only partner he has ever had, since they met in High School). Now he spends his time collection archaic pinball machines and occassionally flying around the world doing consulting work.

    The bar for impressive lawyers is pretty high q:

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  41. Sometimes I just have to let the spam through.


  43. Most entertaining spam I’ve seen so far!

  44. …the hell did I just read?

  45. That’s the greatest thing I have read in weeks.

    Thank you, for this gift, All Mighty Bazular residing within his temple.

  46. That is the best e-mail address I’ve ever seen.

  47. Right up there with “Let me repeat that for you in care you missed it: DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH.”

  48. cassandrakitty

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  49. Ah, Whole Foods or, as we know it in BC, Whole Paycheque.

  50. That was some of the best performance art I’ve seen in ages.

  51. Will any of these love spells work on MGTOW? That would be pretty funny.

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