Turns out VICE made a video about that Men’s Rights rally in Toronto. GO WATCH IT.
This is not an embedded video, so don’t click on it.
I don’t know how I missed it, but a couple of weeks back Vice posted a short video about that EARTH-SHATTERINGLY HISTORIC Men’s Rights rally in Toronto that captured the attention of the world a tiny fraction of a percentage of people in the world (including the people at it and readers of this blog) a little over a month ago.
Alas, WordPress won’t let me embed the video here, but you all need to go look at it. Not only does it capture pretty well what a dinky event it was, but it also contains a bunch of mini-interviews with some A Voice for Men folks that are rather revealing.
The most revealing one of the bunch starts about 2:40 into the video, when AVFM’s Suzanne McCarley explains that
Men, as a class, have never ever oppressed women, as a class. Men have always protected and provided for women. And protected them from oppression from others.
From others? What kind of others? Like, space aliens?
Women have never objected to this, and in fact have always been grateful because it’s how they survived. It is only in the last few hundred years when women of privileged class who don’t even know what they’re being protected from feel disadvantaged because they’re not comfortable with the level of protection they have.
Wow. A few hundred years? Sometimes people accuse MRAs of wanting to take us back to the 1950s. McCarley apparently wants to take us back to the 1750s.
They don’t even understand what they’re being protected from.
Wolves? Sharks? Dishpan hands? Space aliens?
They have no concept how dangerous the world is for them but gosh they’re just not happy because, you know, the males in the family tell them what to do and make all the decisions for them and control all the money. That’s not oppression. That’s protection.
Wow. So I guess slaves and prisoners are the most protected classes of all.
It’s what kept our species alive and what built … [she gestures at the park and the buildings around it] this beautiful city.
Wait. I thought Jefferson Starship built this city. On rock ‘n’ roll.
Anyway, there’s also some footage of a speech about the evil oppression of white men given by an unknown speaker at the rally. He also complains that men working for the government are men who’ve had “their things cut off and are toeing the politically correct line.” (Hopefully after the bleeding has stopped.)
There’s an interview with Paul Elam, who for some reason looks like he’s wearing mascara (which I’m pretty sure he isn’t). He delivers this puzzling pronouncement:
Looking at men in government and saying they have all the power is like looking at women in grocery stores and saying they have all the food.
Not only is this way more revealing about gender inequality than Elam may realize, but it’s also a tad ironic, because Elam not that long ago used (unreliable) data about how women “control” most consumer spending — that is, they do most of the shopping — in order to argue (twice!) that women were the ones primarily responsible for destroying the environment.
There are assorted other bits of misinformation and ignorance and just plain old bigotry from the MRAs.
There’s also some commentary from the counterprotesters that made me wince. No, MRAs aren’t all Marc Lepines waiting to happen. They’re shitty enough people as it is; you don’t have to compare them all to a misogynist mass murderer to make your point. And in fact, you undercut yourself with that kind of rhetoric. Focus on what they actually say and do. It’s bad enough.
And the “racist, sexist, anti-gay” chant? Drop that. MRAs are, for the most part, driven by misogyny — not by other bigotries. Yes, some are racist, including one of the speakers featured on this very video, but that’s not the driving force for most of them. Some are homophobic, but that’s not the driving force for most of them. Some are transphobic — including Elam himself – but that’s not a central issue for most of them.
It’s worth pointing out these other bigotries, but to make these issues the centerpiece of your counterprotest is to miss the point — it would be a bit like attacking the Ku Klux Klan as “sexist and racist.” I’m sure plenty of KKKers are sexist as hell, but with the Klan racism really is the main thing; with MRAs, misogyny is.
And in this case it gave AVFM’s Karen Straughan the opportunity to appear (at least for a moment) like a reasonable person by pointing out that she in fact is not straight.
Anyway, watch the video. It’s amazing.
Posted on November 2, 2013, in a voice for men, actual activism, antifeminism, evil women, FemRAs, FeMRAsplaining, GirlWritesWhat, imaginary backwards land, imaginary oppression, incoherent rage, ladies against women, men created civilization, misogyny, MRA, oppressed white men, paul elam, reactionary bullshit, Suzanne McCarley, things that aren't fascism, we hunted the mammoth and tagged a voice for men, antifeminism, men's rights, misogyny, MRA, toronto. Bookmark the permalink. 1,097 Comments.
Sleep well. cloudiah! Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day.
Pecunium — lol, is that it? I’d sorta noticed, but figured it was a combo of chance, and not wanting to walk into my bag.
Argh my back
::sits down for cuppa::
::looks around::
Anyone still up?
re Esmay’s shaking (just got home from work): I think it as raw emotion, not fear. The thing which most saddens me is that, looking at that… I’m pretty sure he believes the arguments he’s making in that speech. He really does think men are oppressed.
It saddens me because that means he (almost certainly) can’t be persuaded that this is false (since it requires a level of counterfactual understanding of the world which is mind boggling) and because the level of raw pain such a massive misapprehension of reality has to be causing him.
In that moment I had empathy for him; not because I am at all sympathetic with him, but because (no matter on how fallacious a basis) he is a human being in pain.
I wish he were out of pain, or that I could ease his pain; but I can’t, because it’s based on lies, and he won’t listen to reason, nor face the truth. This is hell, nor is he out of it
His hand tremor read like nervousness to me. Or anger, maybe – the default state of these guys.
Kitteh — yup! Someone here just has an actual keypad while I’m texting with fucking T9.
Pecunium — see, you’re nice. You want to make him hurt less, I want to make him physically hurt.
Said someone just texted me, and I quote, “anupodes”…I totally forgot about that given the, uh, meltdown, and failed to say I think it should be butt beasties XD (I think anuses is the accepted standard?)
And yeah, my vote is anger, not fear. His voice is too solid for fear, he’s just death gripping that poor mic.
I’m still around, Kittehs.
Seconding that. This guy is one of those who wants me and a lot of people I love beaten, raped, killed, for not being their property.
Let him feel his self-created pain, if indeed he does. It’s nothing to what he and his mates would (and some do) inflict on women.
Hi gillyrosebee!
This feels so weird – it’s 4.30 pm here, I’m having an R&R cuppa before finishing the vaccuuming, and it’s the wee small hours for everyone else on site atm.
It’s definitely an excess of emotion, so much that he seems at the mercy of it rather than having mastered it. All of which is cause for empathy, but it strikes me that empathy is the last thing that he/they really want. And with that, we’re back to wanting to sit them down and ask what it is they really want.
Kitteh — daylight savings, it’s 1:45am here. Which is still plenty early for me, particularly if I get back to coding.
my problem with the chant is that it put their misogyny very much on the back burner.
Are they racists… pretty much. Are they homophobic, pretty much.
Are they misogynist.. fuck yeah, that’s their raison d’être
By sandwiching it between the other two, those elements (as the first and last) are the ones which stick in the mind. IT gives them tools to rebut, tools which are more effective for the placement of the ancillaries in the positions of note.
So yeah, I’d like to see all their bigotries called out, but I’d like it to happen in way that doesn’t make it easier for them to deny all of them.
Hi, Kittehs!
I know, and I should be asleep right now, but OMG the stress has been setting me on edge lately.
Of course, I still have some maps to print, and plans to make for tomorrow (I’m coordinating a crew of volunteers on a municipal political election). So much to do and so many problems to address, though at this point I’m starting to count the hours till the election is over with.
Even if they wanted empathy, they’re going the wrong fucking way about getting it.
What they want is pretty much answered by remembering they’re the abusers’ lobby, of course. It was said upthread before the Giant Commie Clusterfuck: women on edge, women never knowing what’s going to bring the next explosion. Ownership of half the human species is what they consider their natural due.
What pecunium said, but with a note that their transphobia seems to be getting lost behind “but they are racist homophobes”. Well, yes, they are, they’re also transphobes, among other things.
Oh and kitteh, I wasn’t trying to make it all about me by mentioning that “other people have it worse” is really a not so good stance, I remembered not long after I hit post that Dawkin’s Dear Muslima would’ve been a better example. Or the oh so frequent “but I got over a more violent rape”…I mean, yeah, their slights are largely imaginary, but idk that saying other people have bigger problems is really such a good road to walk down.
Ah well, I guess given the explosion since then, it doesn’t matter anyways.
Hugs, gillyrosebee.
Have a Kodi having a fling.
Yeah, it was minor, Argenti – just following your comment to LBT it didn’t seem so good to compare. I take your point, it was the timing that niggled.
*waves*
Kodi looks a bit like my Izzy.
Although obviously she couldn’t do all those acrobatics as a nose or foot might fall off next time. Poor, poor whittled Frankenstein’s Izzy cat. :(
Could be the pills, just thinking that last comment made noooo sense. *giggles*
Thanks, Kittehs! Shorty and Kodi are always a good antidote!
Yeah, I can see why that irked you. And sorry again about that, it really was quite rude of me.
I want the cause of his hurt (i.e. his hatred of women) to go away.
Absent that… I can be a very less than pleasant person.
@gillyrosebee
It’s a fair point about lending them credence, and you’re right that there will be no productive dialog (but, tbh, I don’t personally have any interest in dialoging with them, and doubt there will be any use in it). I just feel like MRAs are the most dangerous away from their websites, in protests and such, because they can present whatever face they’d like. It’s very easy to take statements like “We’re just trying to help more fathers in the family courts” as fact when you don’t have their articles available to damn them. Had I heard about the TO protest in time, I would have definitely shown up to point and laugh, but if I’d seen people actually listening to what they were saying I would have definitely gone up to them and told them what the MRM is actually about.
@Argenti
These damn beavers have dammed up my creative juices, and my tech skills are on par with a canard in a coal mine, but I’m more than happy to offer my services for grunt work to keep the zine running.
Argenti: Kitteh — daylight savings, it’s 1:45am here. Which is still plenty early for me, particularly if I get back to coding.
Actually, we are back on standard time not Daylight Saving Time.
Kodi…it’s your tail.
It’ sat tachIt’s attached to your butt. It follows you around. You clearly aren’t a kitten, so how are you not used to it being behind you? Somebody spike your catnip?(Mercury in retrograde, somebody laced the pot, any theory is as good as any other at this point?)
And, because I totally needed more stress, now I have to deal with a buyer who thinks that her desire to package my work in her product overrides my ability to tell her to take her money, ball it up into a tight bundle with lots of sharp corners and pound it nice and deep where the sun has never been but a distant and unreliable rumor.
I need another beer.
We’re on daylight saving here, just to add to the confusion. :)
Ophelia – “Could be the pills, just thinking that last comment made noooo sense. *giggles*”
Makes perfect sense to those with Furrinati Insider Knowledge. ::preens::
gillyrosebee – I’ve become addicted to Shorty and Kodi. Theirs is the only youtube channel I’ve subscribed to!
Kitteh: No confusion, you are entering late Spring, we are in middle Autumn.
I just want him not to pass on his pain to other people like some kind of self-replicating virus.
Pecunium — I have yet to see proof that you are capable of being actually angry. Which is probably good, you are likely a force to be reckoned with.
“Actually, we are back on standard time not Daylight Saving Time.”
Whatever, I’m all digital except my pocket watch and my battery is dead. Only clock I have to change has a little switch I flip and TADA!
Shadow — first we need to people to, you know, write stuff ^.^ But if we get troll run-off from here more mods would definitely be more better.
Argenti – that “What IS that thing?” look on Kodi’s face is priceless, isn’t it?
More Shorty and Kodi:
Pecunium – I know (autumn! Grrr! Envy), it was just the “what time is it in X if it’s such-and-such time here” thing I meant. :)
gillyrosebee, that’s extra suckage about that buyer.
I am suddenly very glad that the cat here only acts like a bat out of hell on occasion (of course, my foot is still cut up from when she decided to use it as a launch pad last week)
@kitteh, I’m glad. :)
You’ll be glad to know we haven’t found any more cat pieces around the house, hopefully two ears and an inch and a half of tail will be the last of it.
But eww, never wanna witness that again. It’s cute when your other cat plays with it’s catnip mouse, but when it decides the dismembered ear of its best friend is a great toy, just yak, argh!
BTW, Shadow, are we pretty much on the same page now? It seemed like we were earlier, but then Feminist Bees seemed to be sure that we were coming from totally different positions, and then I had a few more glasses of sake so now I’m a bit hazy.
Argenti: I have a couple of levels of really angry. I can point you to writings I did in the heat of passion.
Agreed, Shadow, and it’s an excellent point. I personally think it’s best addressed by patiently, thoroughly, and with footnotes and diagrams as necessary, showing why those statements are unconnected to the regular rhetoric of those individuals. Then link to all those other, more problematic, comments.
Then, for bonus points, highlight the individuals and groups actually working to address the problems that the MRAs only want to use as an excuse to shake their fists at feminists.
But again, this is what I have inclination and energy for. It’s also what I think my skills are best suited to and what is most likely to produce a result I can be happy with. Each must choose what they are comfortable with on their own.
Evie regularly decides that, a la Evil Dead, her tail has become possessed by evil and must be chased down and killed immediately. Of course, this mostly seems to happen in the wee small hours of the morning, and must be accompanied by the most horrific howling you have ever heard.
The client is always
rightan asshole.Having done a bit of web design for a law firm, I feel your pain. There comes a point where tact fails and you just want to go “no you fucking idiot, it doesn’t work like that!”
New cat stopped chasing her tail at about 9 months, which seems odd to me because it’s so big and fluffy, but apparently she’s not interested any more.
Ophelia, do I dare ask about the ear thing, or should I just be horrified along with you and let it go at that?
Ophelia — what?
Pecunium — yeah, I’m curious, seeing how you’ve seen me truly lose it at Joe and OF when he made that arsenic comment. (That’s about one step down from “you should leave, I want to hurt you”)
Wow this thread is a regular fuckadoodle doo.
I realize I might derail the thread by referencing the Vice piece that the post is about, but I’d like to give props to kittehserf for perfectly describing why Vice’s “the MRAs just need love, love I tell you!” malarky is kind of appalling.
Nailed it and I concur, fuck that.
Oh no, it’s the dreaded “let me endlessly explain what intersectionality is and tell you how do it properly” lecture series. But then this warmed the cockles of my cranky heart:
I’m a newbie but you Manboozers are da best!
A few tips to FeministBees. 1) Throwing blocks of academic text doesn’t contribute to the conversation and we aren’t unschooled savages who need your wise books to free us from ignorance.
2) When people point out mistakes like your use of the word lame, it’s polite to say things like “Sorry, I won’t do it again” and “that’s a good point about ablest language, I never thought about it before, thanks for pointing that out”. Unfortunately, you said this:
And that is exactly what was wrong with my usage of the term “lame.” Despite any efforts on my part to vet ablist language from my usage, it happened and I became part of the oppression of people with disabilities. It wasn’t bad because “I’m motivated by a hate of people with disabilities” (because I’m not). It’s bad because I abjectified people with
disabilities.
You know that it’s not always about you, right? I don’t care about your holy journey to bias-free purity and how out of character it is for you to falter because you embody intersectionality in human form. Not to be rude, but you don’t have special secret knowledge that let’s you do Feminism The Right Way, so stop with the “heavy lifting” sanctimony.
Sorry about the length, but seeing someone lecture phantom “bad feminists” while ignoring what people actually say gets my goat.
@ gillyrosebee
At the risk of reigniting the earlier argument, this is why I feel like a one size fits all leftist chant doesn’t really work. In order to explain why the MRM is so nasty you have to get into the details of the stuff they believe, and that means being specific and targeted in terms of what they’re saying, what they say about that same thing when they don’t think anyone is watching, and who’s in the audience they’re speaking to.
@Cassandra, much earlier I think you asked (I then read another 3 pages of comments and jumped to here):
“What’s a one-word way to express the idea that someone is asking every woman in the world to be their mom?”
Regression.
I’m glad Izzy’s not shedding bits anymore!
Argenti, it’s complicated a bit further by the fact that we’re talking about an actual product here. She wants to be able to buy it, have me adapt the packaging to suit her, and then resell it as part of a gift set without needing my permission to do so.
I’m all for the go get ‘em spirit, but seriously, what part of that is supposed to be okay? You want to start your own business making gift baskets, fine. But I don’t know you or your customers and I don’t know if I want to be associated with you. And I certainly don’t appreciate the end run around my ability to decide where I am going to sell my work. Being a reseller is not a right but a privilege, and I get to decide if I want to participate.
Grrr. Argh.
Sorry about the venting…
Absolutely.
Again, I completely agree, and I especially think you nailed it based on the question of curating the message for the audience they wish to address/mislead.
My only point of question is whether disagreeing and countering in the moment is an effective object lesson for that audience, or if it’s better to go to a venue where it is possible to be substantive and engage with the ideas without being too badly derailed by the personalities. I’m not convinced that counter protest works, though reporting on an event might? I think that it’s best to be able to say “here’s what they said in person, and here’s what they say when they think no one is watching.”
I still think that, given enough rope, they will string up a whole wing of gallows. That’s why I often play “feed the troll till they burst” sometimes, because given enough time most of them unmask themselves with little, if any, help from me. Then, later, it’s possible to provide a layer of analysis that clarifies what happened.
Brooked – applause for that post, and thank you, too. :)
There’s another prop to Manboobz, btw. It’s not that long since I said the bit about women being expected to mop up men’s messes but said with it, “Surely PoC and LGBTQ people don’t get told If Only They Were Nice, blah blah blah?” That was a grand show of ignorance but people here put me right, and without doing the Intersectionality Lecture, either.
gillyrosebee – no apologies for venting, that person is Doin It Rong. Surely they can be told to clear off? It’s like one’s OBLIGED to sell to anyone who comes along, an attitude that pisses me off mightily.
I don’t think counter-protests accomplish anything other than making it clear that an opposition exists. In terms of actually arguing against what the people holding the initial protest are about, well, one of the reasons the Vice article seemed so silly was that “you’re wrong”, “no you are!”, “no, it’s you!” is pretty much how these things tend to go. When does arguing at a protest ever lead to reasoned debate and changed opinions?
@gillyrosebee
I don’t disagree at all with what you said, I think we’re just looking at reaching different groups of people. I say we combine forces, and then take over the world.
@Cassandra
Personally, I don’t think we were ever really on different pages (at least, I never felt we were). The only point of “contention” (quotes because I’ve been teasing out my position over the course of this conversation and never felt like you were wrong so much as I was running things by you guys), was whether the “racist” and “anti-gay” chants were actually that detrimental.
Well, it’s an online marketplace, and I have to figure out how to cancel the order and tell her why without causing an explosion – I’m only just starting to build my reputation.
And with that, I think I must sign off. Evie has taken to wandering forlornly around the hallway and yelling, since I’m not yet in bed. Cat grouchiness consequences!
Wait… I thought we already had?!?!? Isn’t why the world is plagued with hard chairs, spanx and SCENTED FUCKING CANDLES?
I wouldn’t have said detrimental so much as off-topic. That they were cookie-cutter chants doesn’t help.
Niters, gillyrosebee – apologise to your Feline Overlord for us ebil humans keeping you out of bed.
I’d have thought reselling a product as her own was a breach of ownership rights or copyright or something, but I know zip about this, that’s just an impression.
Completely OT, sorry.
gillyrosebee, Argenti.
A couple of months ago, a stray we’d been feeding suddenly had weird floppy ears, we thought she’d been in a fight. Luckily she’d started coming in the house by then and trusted us enough so Mr M took her to the vets.
Long story short (ish):
They found out she had an ectopic pregnancy that nearly went to term, she got blood clots as a result that travelled to the extremities which are apparently mainly harmless. Unfortunately in Izzy’s case the blood clots settled in her ears and tail, thereby cutting off the blood flow.
This meant we’ve had six weeks of finding ears occasionally discarded and used as play toys. Just the other week, an inch and a half of her tail fell off when her fat brother Solomon sat on her tail and she stood up quickly. (Right when I was emailing Kitteh :) )
Anyway, vet removed the babies, which had mummified, in an op that should have taken twenty minutes but instead took an hour and a half, she nearly died and had A LOT of stitches.
But now she is the subject of lectures at the local Uni, and a paper is going to be written about her.
She might not be in grumpycat’s league, but I think, for a cat, Izzy is pretty famous.
Sorry, hope this all makes sense, bit tired now.
@ Shadow
Part of the issue here, I think, is that the format of a protest and counter-protest doesn’t exactly encourage nuance. I’m still trying to figure out what an effective way to intervene in meatspace MRA events would be, when you can’t just direct people to things that MRAs have said about the same subjects the way you can online. I think it would depend a lot on the specifics – who are they speaking to, what are they trying to convince those people of, in what ways are the ideas they’re trying to sell against the best interests of the people being spoken to (at which point a lot of the intersectional stuff comes in). The counter-arguments that would work best at, say, a F4J event in the UK where you’d mostly be speaking to journalists might be different to the counter-arguments you’d want to present to, say, a crowd of random interested students at a college speaking event.
Feline lithopedions?!?
Damn, your poor cat really managed to hit the bad luck there, unless that’s far more common in cats than humans, that’s a rare one.
Yup, she’s a medical bloody miracle, and lovely. :)
@Cassandra
All fair points, and as I said before I have practically nil experience in organizing protests, so I’m speaking only from my experience of attending and witnessing protests. I definitely agree with you and gillyrosebee that attempting to create a dialogue or do point-by-point refutations is not liable to be successful at a counter-protest. To me, it seems like the best you can get out of a situation like that is to make the casual observer think “Maybe there’s more to this issue and this group than what they claim”. I just feel like, if I had been there as an uninformed observer, having an organized group of people shouting “racist, sexist, anti-gay” at these dudes would make me scrutinize them and their message moreso than if it had just been a bunch of dudes talking about how family courts tend to be biased against men, or that false accusations are a real problem and we need to make sure that police are extra careful when they prosecute people for rape, or that false accusations need to have stricter penalties (especially since those kinds of myths are out there beyond the manosphere, so I would have been quick to swallow it). Again though, I’m not speaking from anywhere near the amount of experience you guys are, so I may well just be projecting my own reactions on to everyone else.
I would probably set up a booth nearby with printed versions of some of the various speakers’ more hate-filled contributions to the web so that people would be given a more honest point of reference on their stance, or heckle them and derail their speeches with questions about their bigotry rather than just trying to drown out the rally, which really just made the protesters look like a left wing westboro, and is probably why they were accused of being just as bad as the MRM radicals by many of the uninformed people who happened to see the event.
I also feel like I’d think counter-protests were more useful if the actual protest was likely to sway public opinion in any way, which in the case of the one in Toronto it wasn’t. I’m a lot more worried about F4J because they have a clearer agenda that on the surface sounds quite reasonable (or would if they didn’t keep associating it with stupid things like climbing Buckingham Palace in a superhero costumer). Not a bad idea to use the completely pointless, poorly attended protests as an opportunity to practice for use against better organized events, though.
So, it’s been years, and was a different format, but I graduated in 2003 — right as we went to war (go America! :rolls: )
One of the clubs I was in organized counter protests against the recruiters (seriously pecunium, a decade ago we’d have hated each other) — but it wasn’t trying to yell over each other, we had a table set up next to theirs and leaflets and such. So we could, and did, refute them point by point.
What I’m getting here is that maybe the way to point people to “look what they say when no one is looking” is printed material of some sort — leaflets, quotes on signs, something like that’s particularly because they do manage to sound reasonable when speaking in public and thus could suck in vulnerable people who really do want solutions to legit problems.
And my father tried to make me sign up btw, cuz I’m smart and computers and I’d get a safe intelligence job (hey pecunium, your job was totally safe right? *sigh*)…like that was ever gonna happen. That whole red baiting thing earlier? I spent awhile there being called a commie traitor on a regular basis, somehow, I’m just not seeing “maybe that chant wasn’t the best idea” as anti-communist.
A summary of this thread:
My reactions:
And I was totally ninja’ed!
Sorry, bit of a general one I wrote earlier.
I’m really dosed right now, and really need to go to bed. But I think @feministbees is just like YOYO was on that other thread.
Some people seem to think that they are the first to think a thought and that people who disagree with them just need more education.
I’m willing to bet that most feminists here are intersectional and that most feminists here have read the books. (Not just the wiki pages.)
Yes it is very worthwhile to examine the issues, but a counter protest at an MRM ‘event’ is not the whole of feminism. In this case it is useful to be clear and to the point. Misogyny is the wellspring of MRA hate, it is important to get that out there.
Most people have already thought about what feministbees was saying and have still reached the conclusion that a more focused approach at the protest would have been more helpful.
If I were to protest at the banning of headscarves in France for Muslim ladies, no matter how intersectional their feminism, I doubt they would appreciate my sign declaring the French government ignorant in the face of my disability.
They would quite rightly want me to wear a headscarf and wave placards decrying Islamophobia.
The whole way through feministbees lecture all I was seeing was my favourite scene in Good Will Hunting. (feministbees is the entitled student.)
Hope that makes sense, really must sleep now, nighty, night everyone, don’t let the bed bugs bite.
If we’re going to refer people at meatspace events to stuff that’s online as an illustration of what the MRM is about, The Spearhead would be a really good place to start, along with Elam’s rant about the idea of hurting feminists giving him an erection, and JtO’s “I won’t help rape victims” video. Or set up a page that’s a sort of Greatest Hits of the MRM, with the comment about cutting out the voiceboxes of little girls, various comments about beating women being a good thing, some of the comments about women loving “thugs”, and so on. We could call it “Welcome to the Men’s Rights Movement”.
That’s one way to keep a cat away from the fish! (Note, goldfish do not go in goldfish bowls, the only fish those are suitable for are bettas)
There’s a lobster hat on the downstairs tank because, for some weird reason, the cat is terrified of it. Hat stays on tank, cat stays away from tank, everyone wins.
…you know, Man Boobz: The Magazining?
There’ santo herThere’s another idea for a chunk of it eh?