A Voice for Men’s DriverSuz: “Male care and compassion for women is why women don’t live in barns and pens with the cows, pigs and chickens.”

So I’ve been skimming through the mass of comments that the Daily Beast piece on the Men’s Rightsers now has trailing in its wake. So far I think this is my favorite exchange.

AngryHarry 10 hours ago  If the men throughout history had not been concerned about their women, they would have bred them like cattle, (Who could have stopped them?)  But every single ancestor - stretching back to time immemorial - of every feminist on this forum was protected from death by, mostly, men.    Every single one of them.  We are lucky to exist at all.  Worth thinking about. FlagShare 3LikeReply driversuz 9 hours ago  @AngryHarry   Absolutely correct. Male care and compassion for women is why women don't live in barns ans pens with the cows, pigs and chickens. No external entity prevented men from forcing us to live like farm animals and from socializing us to be relatively comfortable with it.

Yep, that’s DriverSuz — aka Suzanne McCarley, “Senior Editor” of A Voice for Men.

And yep, that’s Angry Harry, the fellow that many MRAs call “the father of the men’s rights movement.”

Some critics of this blog complain whenever I quote some crackpot commenter rather than one of the “big names” in the Men’s Rights movement. Sometimes, it turns out, the crackpot commenters ARE the “big names” in the Men’s Rights movement.

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Posted on October 21, 2013, in a voice for men, antifeminism, creepy, FemRAs, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, patriarchy, patronizing as heck and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 346 Comments.

  1. Just for a laugh, watch Karen Straughan’s video ..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljnvAS1_cxM&feature=c4-overview&list=UUcmnLu5cGUGeLy744WS-fsg
    It’s The x rated hairy horror version of cartoon buffoonery .. I thanked her for the sheer comedy in her video, which caused me to laugh uncontrollably, but i did point out to her, me thanking her was not a compliment.. LMAO ..I nearly did .. haha

  2. Buttercup Q. Skullpants

    So our female predecessors who died from smallpox, malaria, tuberculosis, childbirth, old age, and other natural causes, would have lived if they’d had a man around to protect them? And no nun, unmarried woman or widow ever lived past infancy? And testicles can magically prevent death? Do tell.

    The barnyard animal thing sounds like one of those sleazy NLP door-in-the-face techniques. Plant a horrific image in the mind of a woman, and – ta dah! – your obnoxious abuser personality suddenly looks acceptable by comparison. We’re supposed to be grateful that they treat us like crap instead of like shit.

    Abusive douchebags. The cause of – and solution to – our problems!

  3. Just remembered a short story from one of the”Dangerous Visions” collections, “In The Barn”. The protagonist visits a parallel Earth in which there are no ruminants, and humans have developed techniques for using other humans as livestock. It’s rather nasty, all in all, and I don’t think the author intended it any other way.

  4. Thank you for the welcome pack kittehserf. I will admit I availed myself of it many months ago and have been enjoying cloudiah’s updates.

    Oh heck, as I sometimes seem to spend half my life with my head up my arse you’d think a small shift in position wouldn’t be much of a reach for me! But I still can’t do it with the c-word. I could never, ever call my cave of wonders by that name ;-) I know people don’t believe it, but I really truly don’t associate the word with female genitalia or ‘it’s female/a vagina therefore its bad’. It’s a word for appalling behavior. Always has been, always will be for me. But I rarely use it, and I’d never use it here.

    OK. It seems the fight for my lovely word has already been lost – too many people only see it, as you’ve pointed out yourself, as something that “specifically tries to demean the man by invoking the image of women’s genitals.” Well, for a short and glorious time *perhaps* there was a part of the world where that divorce had been well and truly made and the word was it’s own insult in it’s own way. But like the idea of “a fair day’s work for a fair day’s pay” it couldn’t survive. Like I said, I’m just a sad old idealist…

  5. I just checked and wow – it was by Piers Anthony. Color me surprised.

  6. @Terrene, Yeah, sorry if I was mean earlier, it’s just that we get so many trolls. I really think the problem is with using it as an insult. It’s not the word per se.

    You’re very welcome to hang out here with us, so don’t feel like one wrong step ruins everything. I once posted a terrible video, and everyone was very forgiving. :-)

  7. “Cave of wonders” now that I like!

    Though I’m thinking of stalactites and stalagmites and hard hats now, so maybe not. Though I s’pose they’d put a different slant on crusty undies. :P

  8. Cave of wonders makes me think Disney’s Alladin and the Genie.

  9. @ Aphrodite

    Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but either way. I cite Poe’s law :D

    I was specifically not talking about 3rd world countries – I was talking about history in general and women inventors throughout the ages. Fact of the matter is that in the past, women contributed equally to the development of mankind. Only later did the patriarchal system come into place that hindered development because it stopped majority of women from doing specific kinds of work. (Also, “popping out children” has always been risky, even more so in the olden days. Plus they had to do all sorts of work besides being pregnant and caring for kids – simultaneously. Which was not the sole responsibility of the mother (or even just the mothers) for the majority of human history.) It’s also worth noting that men had the freedom they had because they were privileged over women and other groups, depending on time and place, since they didn’t “need” to partake in the more “mundane” activities – important as they were.

    This, however, did not stop women from being awesome. There has always been great female thinkers, inventors and the common laborer is just as important. There are several technological advancements invented or developed further by women, several scientific discoveries, influential thinkers and mathematicians etc.
    Once again, this is despite the fact that their lives have been negatively impacted by those who were in privileged positions.
    If those forces were not enforced in the first place, humanity would have advanced at much faster pace.

    And the same can be said about any class who have been put down by the more powerful classes. No doubt we have lost countless potential lives who would have changed the world if they were not enslaved in one form or another to serve the oppressors.

  10. this one is between perspectives

    so the thesis of this is what? “be grateful you womenfolk are only treated as subhuman playthings rather than actual chattel because big strong manfolk could have been so much meaner and they weren’t”? What?The?fuck?

  11. So I’d just like to make a stand for the non-US usage of the c-word. As a non-genital related term of abuse that has a very well-established history as the ultimate and most serious accusation one can make against another person, and one that (perhaps interesting in its irony) is used to describe *men* far more frequently than women. Cuntish behaviour is that displayed by the very worst of people – politicians who close down a country’s manufacturing base, oil companies who destroy habitats, religious orders that cover up sexual abuse. And that git who cuts you up on the motorway and nearly causes an accident. The definition of a cunt is someone who *knowingly* and with no sense of social responsibility does harm to others. It’s a term for the most reprehensible in society but conveys the disgust, anger and challenge that just saying “you’re reprehensible” ever can. So it’s no good saying “there are other words you can use” because there aren’t. Nothing trumps the c-word when used in the non-US way. That’s what it’s evolved to be – the worst thing you can call a person.

    And why is that?

    Because it’s a woman’s genitals.

    And having been with the British Army, yeah,there are ways in which it’s not quite like that; but it is.

    Or is the UK lexicon of swear words (which, I’ll guess is probably one of the biggest in the world,

    Brits have nothing on the Russians.

  12. re godamned vajajay: It’s from fucking television; and a show which takes place in a hospital for fucks sake (Grey’s Anatomy). They could say penis, but vagina… no. They had to make a new euphemism.

    Fucking hypocritical shits.

    Worse, I have heard it used without irony (we won’t even go into the idea of, “vajazzling”… ghunnh!!!!!!)

    Beaver isn’t about teeth, but about their soft pelts.

    Shit like “bearded clam” always drives me up the wall.

  13. I hate those ones too, pecunium. Every damn slang term that appears is a put-down.

  14. And even the clinical term “vagina” is badly misused these days too, used to mean any old part of the vulva.

  15. Yup.

    Extra stupid, isn’t it – the term so many people shy away from using is the wrong one anyway, most of the time.

    At least “pudenda” has gone out of usage, even if too many people still seem to think women should be ashamed of having genitals.

  16. Do you have a kids term for the vulva? In Sweden, the word “snippa” was purposely made up by feminists some years ago to have a kid’s word for it. Because we already had “snopp”, which is a kid’s word for penis, but no kid’s word for vulva existed. AFAIK they were pretty successful and the idea that just like you can use “snopp” for penis you can use “snippa” for vulva has been fairly generally accepted among kids and parents with little children.

    Most feminists I know also use “fitta” in an attempt to reclaim it… which I guess is the Swedish equivalent of “cunt”… although not quite. It’s always been considered a dirty word, but it hasn’t been extensively used a slur or curse word until relatively recently, so I can see how it would be possible to reclaim it as a neutral word for genitals. For some reason Swedish cursing has traditionally been making use of Satan rather than genitals. Cursing with genital words is something that’s become more popular as a result of the influence of American pop culture, but might still be a reversible trend.

  17. re godamned vajajay: It’s from fucking television; and a show which takes place in a hospital for fucks sake (Grey’s Anatomy). They could say penis, but vagina… no. They had to make a new euphemism.

    Whut? Are you sure it wasn’t “Anastasia Grey’s Lobotomy”?

    In Finnish a rude word for vulva is a really common swearword, mostly dissociated from its literal meaning like English “fuck”. It’s not usually a personal slur, except if you tell someone to “go fuck themselves”, that would be literally “smell the cunt” or “crawl into a cunt”.

    I guess this sounds horribly misogynistic when translated literally into English, but then again the English usage of “fuck” would sound horribly rapey in Finnish.

  18. In Finnish a rude word for vulva is a really common swearword, mostly dissociated from its literal meaning like English “fuck”. It’s not usually a personal slur, except if you tell someone to “go fuck themselves”, that would be literally “smell the cunt” or “crawl into a cunt”.

    I guess this sounds horribly misogynistic when translated literally into English, but then again the English usage of “fuck” would sound horribly rapey in Finnish.

    But your point is that it isn’t misogynistic, and that Finnish speakers understand this?

    I really think these arguments of “in my language we have word X which just happens to mean both vulva and something terrible, but you see, the two meanings of X are totally not related, it’s not the case that X means something terrible as well as vulva because vulvas are seen/have been seen as terrible, it’s just a complete coincidence that X happens to mean both” are getting a little tedious. Nobody has claimed that everyone who uses X to mean “something horrible” is being consciously misogynistic. Just that it’s probably not a complete coincidence that lots of languages have a word which means a) vulva and b) something terrible.

    But yeah, expressions using “fuck” could probably do with a bit of discussion as well, once we’re at it…

  19. I should have added, “Not that that it isn’t somewhat problematic in Finnish context, just like “fuck you” is somewhat problematic in English, even though people mostly dissociate it from rape threats”. I’ve certainly seen some feminists criticize both issues, although most don’t seem to care. I realize I sounded like a clueless Englishman on the issue of “cunt”.

    Also, now I think we’re foreignsplaining English to native speakers here :)

  20. Haha, foreignsplaining! A new splaining-term has been coined!

  21. @Aphrodite
    “You mean the unpaid labour sitting at home popping out children? And inventions such as the plane, the computer, the development of Lapalce’s transforms, general relativity, cars, Hindu-Arabic numeral system? Oh yes, I forgot the invention of the chocolate chip cookie; I think I can live without them. Even today, the vast majority of hard work is done by men – from fighting the wars, to garbage cleaners, coal miners, fishermen, to construction. You don’t need to look to the 3rd world, just look at the west!”

    THIS!!
    I wonder what response these girls would give…

  22. Yeah, well, if you think you can live without chocolate chip cookies.
    :roll:

  23. “Even today, the vast majority of hard work is done by men – from fighting the wars, to garbage cleaners, coal miners, fishermen, to construction”

    And to fight among this injustice, we will… rabidly attack any women who try to get into these spaces! We’re geniuses!

  24. (mistake on the previous comment)

    “Even today, the vast majority of hard work is done by men – from fighting the wars, to garbage cleaners, coal miners, fishermen, to construction”

    And to fight against this injustice, we will… rabidly attack any women who try to get into these spaces!

  25. Fun fact, the word “vittu” (lit. cunt) originally meant a hole or cave. Though not many people know this.
    Like, everyone knows that the word refers to female genitalia, but it’s very rarely used in that context anymore. Another swearword for vagina/female genitalia in general has taken the place of it in that context. Vittu is generally only used to tell somebody off nowadays.

    Also, the term “vituttaa” means to be extremely angry and annoyed, another very common usage. I don’t know the origins of this phrase, but it’s rather interesting that the word has almost completely lost it’s meaning as a body part.

    There are also a couple of ways to insult people by referring to them as the male genitalia. (Mulkku, meaning the same and used the same way as the word dick. Not to be confused with murkku, which children often mispronounce as mulkku. Murkku is a cutesy name for an ant :D ) Then there’s also the relatively tame munapää, which can mean either egg-head (not a smart kind, but the opposite) or dick-head.

    There are, however, slang terms that use a swear word meaning penis in similar context as vituttaa is used. I have for a decade or so heard some people say “kyrpiintynyt” which basically means extremely annoyed and tired of someone’s shit, or the like, and derives from a very impolite way of saying penis. I don’t know if it’s in wider usage, but I’ve heard it used a couple of times by people who did not learn it from me, so it likely isn’t just something me and my brother used as kids. Kyrpäotsa also literally means forehead-dick…. And so forth.

    Long story short, Finnish language is very into it’s cussing and swearing, and a lot of words are nowadays so tame that they only raise eyebrows in more “professional company”, and a lot of words get turned into insults or cusswords for no specific reason…

    Not that this necessarily takes away from them being offensive in origin or nature, but at least it appears to be fair game when genders are concerned :P

    The Finnish words for “cunt” can’t really be used in the same context either, unless literally talking about a cunt. And there more than one equivalent words, one of which is commonly used instead of vagina or vulva, albeit once again, not in polite company.

    This has been a short lesson in useless Finnish terminology that you’d probably be better off without.

    Ps. not really, I know one French person who some jokester douchebag taught swearwords instead of polite greetings when she visited Finland, and for some time she did use them sincerely thinking she was being polite, until somebody pointed out to her that she was just dropping random swear words to cashiers.

  26. Anybody who claims that most work done historically or today are done by dudes, and that women haven’t contributed to the list of inventions that has made modern life what it is, are ignorant, and need to go read some books on history. (TBF, most history books are woefully ignorant about these facts as well. I wonder why?)
    Secondly, caring for a home is hard fucking work in itself, and in no way deserves to be brushed off as unimportant.

    I all ready ranted about this in a previous comment, but I’ll say it again ; the fact that the unprivileged classes were forced to do the work later dismissed as unimportant (which it wasn’t), is one of the reasons males have dominated history writing and shit. This did not still stop these underprivileged people from contributing. List of influential women and other thinkers and investors are easy to find, so ignorance is a lousy fucking excuse.

  27. “Even today, the vast majority of hard work is done by men – from fighting the wars, to garbage cleaners, coal miners, fishermen, to construction”

    Srsly, between soldiers, garbage collectors, miners, and the rest, there are almost 7.5 million people in these dangerous occupations, virtually all men! That’s a whopping…2.5% of the population!

    There are a whole 570 men in fishing alone!

    (OSHA statistics: Kind of fascinating.)

  28. Men pushed women down, preventing them from achieving in the areas where they didn’t want them to, such as sciences. When women did achieve in the fields men were not comfortable with, they actively silenced, belittled and stole credit from said achievements.

    Come 21st century, certain people spend their time musing how women didn’t contribute enough in the history of the world, so they should stay in the position that men originally put them into in order to prevent them from competing in the same fields in the first place. Then complain again how women aren’t doing the same work as men.

    Herp.

  29. It’s also worth noting that while majority of armed forces across the world (in modern cultures) are men, a depressingly large amount of casualties and other victims are civilians who get maimed and exploited by enemy and their own alike. A great number of these victims are women and children.

  30. “You mean the unpaid labour sitting at home popping out children? And inventions such as the plane, the computer, the development of Lapalce’s transforms, general relativity, cars, Hindu-Arabic numeral system? Oh yes, I forgot the invention of the chocolate chip cookie; I think I can live without them. Even today, the vast majority of hard work is done by men – from fighting the wars, to garbage cleaners, coal miners, fishermen, to construction. You don’t need to look to the 3rd world, just look at the west!”

    You could make the same exact argument about whites and non-whites.

  31. Dare I ask what hard work Greater Good himself is doing?

  32. GG: Can you live without bread? Without legumes? Without cloth?

    Because those are things women invented (i.e. agriculture, and spinning: even if women didn’t “invent” them, they were the one’s who did it, ergo all the advances made in it were pretty much made by women).

  33. I’d like to point out that the propagation of the human species is very important, and especially important given BioTruths™. It’s pretty much the most important thing you can do and it’s clearly biologically programmed for all womenz to have babbies. Therefore women are actually the most important people on the planet and men can be disposed of, except for when we need liquid gold to impregnate ourselves.

    On a more serious note, women’s primary reason for death before the 20th century was childbirth, and that was increased when physicians came onto the field knowing fuck all about infection and also pregnant women were experimented on horrifically to “know more about the human body”. So biotruths don’t make a fuck load of sense given that pregnant women were killed so often and that men killed them because they were pregnant… and that the most common time for abuse to begin is during pregnancy (also makes no sense given you likely biotruthically want your offspring to survive and killing the mother =/= good chances of that).

    So basically what I’m saying is women are important and midwives/trained birth attendants are like the most important professions that ever existed and they’re primarily done by women. And also agriculture, which is mostly and was mostly done by women, since that’s primarily how the world eats… Without women men would be fucked.

    Just sayin’

  34. SittieKitty – I think pregnancy and childbirth complications are still the main cause of death among young women, worldwide.

  35. Yeah, and one of the easiest and fastest ways to reduce that is basic sanitation and trained birth attendants. It’s ridiculous that education for women is therefore denounced, since that’s a major thing that would help. Especially since educating women has been proven to be the fastest and best and cheapest way to increase standard of living for all people across the board where it’s introduced as a matter of course.

  36. I like how these toads think opportunity plays no role is development and technology. No shit men spearheaded a lot of technological advancement. They had the fucking opportunity. The notion women would curl up and die without them and couldn’t have figured out the same things given the chance is beyond stoopid.

  37. SittieKitty – you really get the feelings these arsewipes want us to die in childbirth (as long as THE SON survives, of course, assuming papa wants him). They’re screaming with rage that we aren’t and never have been as utterly, helplessly dependent on their goodwill and dudely genius as they’d like to think.

  38. *feeling, not feelings

  39. I do get that feeling, it’s just so short-sighted though… I mean, granted they believe that there’s only so many feeeemales to go around for all the Alpha dudes and the betas are all the other men, but eventually you’ll run out of women, and plus, toxic masculinity much having to fight over a mate? And wouldn’t women then have a plethora of men to chose from and basically get to say fuck you to any man they want to? Wouldn’t the power be totally in their court then? Not to mention males would really be disposable then… Really what they should want to do is reduce the numbers of men in the world, so that women who want to propagate have to entice the best specimen. That way they have a much better chance of being wined dined and eating bonbons while the women folk do all the work to get their precious precious bodily fluids.

    And oh god, I feel dirty even typing that much biotruth grossness out…

  40. And wouldn’t women then have a plethora of men to chose from and basically get to say fuck you to any man they want to? Wouldn’t the power be totally in their court then?

    I dunno, is it working that way in China, with the serious unbalancing thanks to the one-child policy and the abortions/female infanticide? One hears about kidnappings and the like of girls and women as brides, but never about any other side of the story (which may or may not be due to racism in the mainstream media). At any rate, I always get the nasty feeling that in a society misogynistic enough to end up with such skewed numbers, the power of choice isn’t going to be in women’s hands, at least partly because everything’s weighed against them anyway.

    Should add that MRAs’ carryings-on are a joke in themselves, because I doubt any of these guys would survive outside their urban existence (or their parents’ basements, for that matter).

  41. I guess this is all mental masturbation anyway. Which, I’ll admit, is better than hearing about all the MRAs sick fantasies…

  42. LOL maybe we should just talk about dudebro tear recipes!

  43. “Shit like “bearded clam” always drives me up the wall.”

    Bearded clam is just weird, but I could like pink clam or similar. But, you know, sea life, I know it. And, well, look…this is a pink clam. (the SFW kind)

    Beautiful isn’t it?

  44. Kitteh, thats a frustrating part of misogyny. When something women do “takes away” something from men, it has to be fixed. But when something men do hurts women, it has to be accommodated.
    No one says “women can’t help being bad at math… So men are just gonna have to be held back for them, it’s only fair”. But we hear “men can’t control their sexual desires and violent tendencies, so women are just going to have to deal with it, otherwise we would be oppressing masculinity”.
    I think this is where the idea of feminists wanting to castrate all men comes from. If men actually had no control over themselves due to hormones, then the “cure” would be castration. Just like if we found a “murder gland” or “theft gland”. Hell, if I knew my ovaries were making me into a rapist, I’d WANT them removed. However, the claim that men can’t control themselves is clearly a load of BS, since the majority of men manage to not sexually assault anyone their entire lives. Men aren’t violent beasts.
    Anti-feminists miss the big “if” in “if men couldn’t control themselves….”

  45. Very pretty!

    If the clam bit included “having sharp edges that can close REALLY HARD” I’d go with it, but alas, that version of the vagina (or vulva, in this case) dentata doesn’t seem to be on offer.

  46. auggz – hear, hear!

  47. Gorgeous Argenti. Just gorgeous. I love this stuff. I pretty much love all amazing life forms, the world is just so full of incredible things.

  48. A question for all these “but ur attacking male sexuality” pro-rape shits would be “Do you think kleptomaniacs should be allowed to steal what they want?* Do you think arsonists should be allowed to set fires?” I bet the answer would be no, but when it comes to men who want to rape women, suddenly it’s all a natural, ungovernable urge – no, not an urge, a NEEEED for SEEEEXXXXXX – and we’re killing them by suggesting that no, you don’t have the right to use another person’s body as you wish.

    *I’m not comparing rape with theft!

  49. @sittiekitty

    Cave of wonders makes me think Disney’s Alladin and the Genie.

    I, for one, definitely have a genie in my vagina XD

    @pecunium

    Worse, I have heard it used without irony (we won’t even go into the idea of, “vajazzling”… ghunnh!!!!!!)

    I don’t know, I just can’t hate on vajazzling.

    @kittehs

    At least “pudenda” has gone out of usage, even if too many people still seem to think women should be ashamed of having genitals.

    (Luckily) never heard that one before. Sounds…rather weird.

    @vaiyt

    “Even today, the vast majority of hard work is done by men – from fighting the wars, to garbage cleaners, coal miners, fishermen, to construction”

    And to fight against this injustice, we will… rabidly attack any women who try to get into these spaces!

    No one ever accused the mrm of thinking things through XD

  50. A trans* issue question,
    Is it transphobic to say stuff like “men don’t have abortions”, or not addressing trans men and androgynous people when talking about “women’s health”? Like assuming people’s genders based on anatomy, when not talking about trans* people? I’ve been trying to be more trans* inclusive with my language and all, but in these cases idk what to say.
    For the first part, usually I just say “most men don’t have abortions” or “most women have ovaries”. But I’m not sure if there’s better ways, or what to do about other cases, IE: what do I call people who have a risk of ovarian cancer?

  51. I’d like to know that too, auggz.

    Marie – pudenda’s from Latin and means “something shameful”, roughly. ::sits back to await more specific info from Argenti or pecunium::

    I’d also like to know why the hell 7 11 put so much goddamned PEPPER in my chicken and avocado sammich … way to spoil it!

  52. PS yes, do take it as a compliment! :D

  53. @auggz

    I think if you kept the ‘most’ there it’d be fine, but I’m cis, so take my comment with a grain of salt.

    re: people at risk for ovarian cancer: no clue, sowwyz.

    @kittehs

    Marie – pudenda’s from Latin and means “something shameful”, roughly. ::sits back to await more specific info from Argenti or pecunium::

    bleh :/

  54. I, for one, definitely have a genie in my vagina XD

    Does… that mean that rubbing it can grant wishes? ;)

  55. Also sometimes when talking about rape I use “he” for the rapist and “she” for the victim. A lot of studies on rape use this too, but will have a little explanation at the top saying it’s because the majority of rape is male on female.
    I get that reasoning, and it makes it a lot easier to read. But I try to avoid that, since it excludes male victims. I don’t want them to be forced into women’s perspectives to relate. Not that it like they’re being “lowered” or whatever, it’s just that they should be related. Like when I read stuff that uses “he” and “man/mankind” instead of gender neutral terms, I feel excluded.
    Also making the rapists’ pronouns male, it sort of excludes victims who were raped by women.
    As far as female rapists feeling excluded, the only problem is that less will women understand that they can rape too. I’m not worried about them feeling “hurt”, obviously. Just the continuation of the stereotype that women can’t rape, they can only sexually assault other women(and it’s not very serious), or that they can’t rape men, due to stereotypes about men’s sexuality and women’s weakness.

  56. @sittiekitty

    Does… that mean that rubbing it can grant wishes? ;)

    XD

  57. “I don’t know, I just can’t hate on vajazzling.”

    …do you know what he was referring to? Because it isn’t just another term for vulva and adjacent bits.

    Auggz — what I think is the easy one first — people at risk of ovarian cancer? “People with ovaries”?

    The one about rape…honestly, I default to male rapist // female victim because it’ sweat it’s what everyone assumes and I’m afraid reversing that would cause confusion. I really want gender neutral pronouns to become part of standard English.

    “Women’s health” is a tricky one because it’s almost an idiom. As for men not having abotions — cis men don’t have abotions.

    I’d put this all under that pesky “problematic” label though, since you do recognize the issue and are trying to be inclusive. But I’m generous with those who mean well.

  58. Re: rape, in conversations here at least, it almost always is about male rapist/female victim, because that’s what’s usually under discussion when it comes to MRM trolls. The only time they mention male rape victims is when they’re trying to score points, and I can’t remember the last time any of them said anything about trans* people’s issues, except to dismiss them.

  59. Argenti, yeah I usually do go with the male/female rapist/victim because I don’t want to confuse, but I usually give a disclaimer saying something about how men can be raped and women can rape.

  60. kittehs, you have 7 11s there too? Is it a convenience store like here in the US?

  61. Yup. It’s the exact same mob, as far as I know.

  62. Hmmm, could avoid pronouns entirely. It takes a bit more work, but you could do either “the rapist”/”the victim” or something like “Pat”/”Sam”/other gender neutral name. Person A and Person B could also work depending on context, but that and no pronouns seems rather awkward.

  63. Or just reduce it to R and V, though that’s still going to be awkward.

  64. I tend to be pretty good about not defaulting to he/she unless the specific situation has been established. But that’s just my habit of turning pretty much everything I say into gender neutral unless I know pronouns, and it’s new-ish for me since I started in on feminism.

  65. @Argenti Aertheri

    “I don’t know, I just can’t hate on vajazzling.”

    …do you know what he was referring to? Because it isn’t just another term for vulva and adjacent bits.

    Yeah, though I don’t know much too much about it. Maybe if I did I’d have stronger like/dislike, but with my current info I don’t see the problem.

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