The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling
Posted by David Futrelle

John Hembling, possibly lying about something
The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of people.
Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.
It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.
Here’s what it gets right:
1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.
2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.
As Kelly notes:
Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …
Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.
Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:
According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.
It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.
In other words: Cool story, bro.
3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,
the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.
“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”
Indeed, Kelly writes:
It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.
But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.
1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.
2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM – especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.
3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?
I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.
4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!
Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!
Posted on October 20, 2013, in a voice for men, are these guys 12 years old?, johntheother, lying liars, misogyny, MRA and tagged a voice for men, antifeminism, daily beast, men's rights, misogyny, MRA, R. Tod Kelly. Bookmark the permalink. 1,986 Comments.








“Yes, I do think everone who is not a rapist understands what rape is. This is the reason I do not fuck everything and everyone I see.”
Again, look at my examples you stupid fuck. Also what about the phrases “‘rape’ rape”, “legitimate rape”, or how many excuse pedophilia between a female rapist and a male victim.
Sittiekitty, I read something about a girl there who was at a program for something, who was raped by a boy, and when she made a formal complaint the lady things like “Well now you know not to hang out with those boys anymore” and “Are you sure it wasn’t just a cultural misunderstanding? Did he reject you and is that why you’re accusing him?”
(the rapist was french btw, he was long gone by the time she could actually talk to anyone due to horrible managment).
Any sexual intercourse without consent.
So… who gets to decide when there is consent?
“…that doesn’t” etc
Was about this — “Burden of proof, my treasure, burden of proof!”
ahostileworld has yet to answer me. (I hope this is not against the rules, if it is I’ll totally knock it off, or if it’s annoying anyone too, lemme know, it just seems like ahostileworld is completely incapable of reading back even a page to look at things asked so copying seems like a solution.)
I could break it down…
Fooling yourself into thinking you didn’t rape someone = believing that the actions you took were not rape = you thinking that what you “gathered” was consent or, alternatively, thinking that consent was automatic and no one took it away. This is “alright” because you a) are ignorant of what consent means, b) are ok with the actions you took that were in fact rape, c) are not only okay with it, but you’ve managed to justify it to yourself. How is this possible if consent is so clearly defined, everyone knows what it is, and rape isn’t culturally acceptable?
Please, please tell me how you manage to say both:
a) a fuckload of people (5% of men) can be ok with their actions of raping someone enough that they don’t even know they’ve committed rape
and,
b) that there is a culture in society today that denounces rape so hard and so strongly that these people couldn’t possibly believe what they were doing is right.
Saying there is no rape culture is de facto saying, in your own words, that rape is so heinous and well defined that there should never be a misunderstanding and it’s so roundly denounced that no one should ever be okay with their actions being rape.
Which is incongruous with saying that a large percentage of the male population is actually able to “fool” themselves into thinking what they did was straight up totes okay.
It’s kinda one or the other here, you can’t have both. If you’re trying to say you can have both, you need to go the extra step and explain why they make sense, because from where I’m sitting (I have one of those gender studies degrees you were whinging about earlier, and I also have a med degree which is imo pretty STEM so yea, pretty well rounded education) those two things are completely at odds.
(no, seriously, if it’s annoying please tell me :) )
Sex without consent…so, what if she says yes when coerced? Or when too drunk to actually say anything but slurs something that sounds like yes?
Or, how about if she consents in the first place and then tells him to stop?
(Pecunium, please stock up on Jedi hugs, I fear his reply will make me need them)
SittieKitty — it confused me the first time you did it, but I wouldn’t call it annoying. Maybe preface it with how it’s that comment again so the rest of us just skip it?
SittieKitty: Not to me. I still want to know about his military experience (so needful to evaluate the actions of past generals, per Asshole Mcgee).
Not 5% of rapists, you fool. 5% of MEN.
So still not demonstrating that oh so superior maths ability are you, laddie?
And it’s not like you have any or anything pecunium! XD
…ooh, please use it on him? Pretty pretty please? You can have a spiderling wherever my spider plant grows up and does that.
SittieKitty: Blockquotes are your friend. Put it in a doc,and cut/paste to avoid being bitten by the monster.
If that’s against the rules, I’m in all kinds of trouble.
Mcgee: Not 5% of rapists, you fool. 5% of MEN.
You know that makes it worse, right.
So, who gets to determine consent?
Fail to Impress: pop punk
Wheelchair Bound: industrial metal
On the Larger Side: country rock
You’d Better Be, Sweetheart: jazz/pop standards
So still not demonstrating that oh so superior maths ability are you, laddie?
I never claimed to have any skill with mathematics. You are the dipshit posturing as a Sooper-Geenius.
I’m just applying the rules of logic to your claims, and comparing your results to my experience (it’s not looking good for you; I suspect your professors were being lenient in the grading; or there was a curve and you were in classes with even stupider people).
“Yes, I do think everone who is not a rapist understands what rape is. This is the reason I do not fuck everything and everyone I see.”
Wait a fucking minute. So if he didn’t know that was rape and thus illegal, he’d do it and thus commit rape through ignorance just like he’s saying those 5% of men do?
Well, that’s disgusting and quite informative.
Well, @ahostilenoodle is right about one thing. It’s late on this side of the Atlantic. Sweet dreams, everyone.
(I do find it amusing that someone who was in nappies when I was already in middle school is calling me laddie. Must be my youthful good looks).
pecunium, I have yet to be bitten by the blockquote monster, I’m not sure if that makes me good or bad at manboobzing…
One thing that’s worth noting – that 5% of men will admit to having committed rape when the word rape is not included in the question does not mean that the other 95% of men understand what rape and consent are. Nor does it mean that only 5% are rapists – it could well mean that the other 95% know exactly what rape and consent are, and so answer in the negative despite having done so. This is, of course… I hope, not true, but the 5% figure tells us about the 5% only.
5% of men…are we talking about the Lisak study again? Because, um, while very few of the rapists interviewed acknowledged that they committed rape, every single one of them knew that the victim did not consent.
Pecunium, that was titianblue, to asshole. Your math skills were never in question.
And you were right, I’ve been missing that second i all this time, I’m sorry titianblue!
@pecunium, it was me saying
and
And I was aiming both comments at @ahostilenoodle.
Though I will say you have youthful good looks :)
SittieKitty — you asked for that.
Oh fuck me. You meant to do that. Sorry!
hehehe. I did, so that people could skip over it. it’s all good. i’m totally tempting fate by saying that the blockquote monster hasn’t gotten me yet and i’m sure I’ll eventually have to bite my foot.
No probs about the missing “i”, Argenti.
I’m taking @pecunium’s mistaking my comment for @hostiletroll’s as further evidence that our troll is most likely British.
Oh… Sorry. (there go my youthful good looks).
eat my hat? hmm… I missed out on the euphemisms thread and my mind is full of puns so now i’m going in random pun wordplay euphemism circles.
Hey, my mother calls you kid sometimes. I can’t get her to understand you’re about the same age as her oldest nephew (the military one)
titianblue: I’ve yet to see a non-native locutional phrase, nor any failure to understand complex syntactical structures; (of the sort native speakers know, but rarely use, and which non-native are told about, but never really get to see in the wild).
Added to his solid grasp of colloquialisms, idiom and cultural referent… well location isn’t nationality.
@auggziliary: Thanks for the help!
Indeed, I find it difficult to translate any of believesinahostileworldandisthereforecompletelymiserable’s lines without once resorting to my classic go-to translation “I have no idea what I’m arguing here, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to admit it”.
Oh, except the part about it being, like, super late here in Europe. Why am I still awake? SIlly me.
Well, to be fair, it’s 1:30 am here in Englishland, so that puts Germania in at 2:30, so that is pretty late.
I should be going to sleep myself… but I’m watching Agents of SHIELD first.
Athywren: I like your sense of priority.
Holy fucking wittle fish batman!
TWENTY!
Twenty tiny fry. Fucking TWENTY!
Holy fucking wittle fish batman!
If you have 20, that seems to have been the case, yes.
@titanblue
Night :3
@argenti aertheri
Yay?Is having 20 good? (sorry, can’t tell from internet-tone).
Well I like a little cheese before bed, but if I eat any it’ll give me bad dreams. Srsly though, I could see AoS being a new favourite show if it survives the first season and gets into a nice groove.
YAY FISHIES! \o/ Are they dorbles?
Anyways, ’tis now bed time for the athiest wren on the forum. G’night all.
Also McGee, see this on the subject of: Negative Proof
Pecunium — your day to be the smart ass I take it?
Marie — eh, I’m excited, but it’s a bit of a problem tank-wise. I’m going to have to convert the 10g back to a breeding tank.
Pecunium again — how do I tell if your violets have rooted? I don’t dare lift the leaves since the roots are so delicate. Should I just assume they haven’t and prop up the plants? Cuz I think I can finagle using the tank for both.
They are dorables!! I’ll attempt pictures! ^.^
@argenti aertheri
Well, in that case, yay for your fishies :3
Athywren — two from just now
And four days ago
Huh… buh… But I was agreeing with zir… I mean, that was the only part I didn’t object to… Whuh?
Seems I fail even at being completely non-sarcastic. Now I’m really going to bed.
Eenie weenie teeny tiny fishie babies! That’s so cool!
Are the teeny snailio babies some of your breeding work as well? I have teeny snailio babies in my garden, some of them so small that they are dwarfed by the tip of my index finger.
The teeny snails kinda breed themselves, but seeing how they are good for puff, I encourage it. (Puffers, if you don’t know this, have beaks, and like rodents they continually grow, so the snail shells are a nice hard thing to chomp on to keep them worn down)
Oh and the largest of the snails is just slightly bigger than the pencil eraser. They stay fairly small.
I’m so happy about your fishy babies.
Yay, for fishy babbies!
Oh gods. we’ve another imbecile in the shop. Not drunk, just loudly whining and swearing about how haaaarrrd it is that he actually has to learn ruuuullles for his boat license.
Why are so many fishermen utter morons?
I’m happy to hear about your fish, Argenti. =D
fishies*
Kitteh — because only a fool would cross the fishinati!
And thanks guys, after the ich and velvet wiped out the cories from my previous spawning, and it turned out my remaining male was sterile, having 20 from this male’s first spawning is Very Exciting!
Oh… I learned a new treatment for ich/velvet (works with scaleless fishies). Quinine sulfate.
File that under “things to buy”
You rock. (Though my only scaleless fish at present is puff, and that tank is definitely clean…for bonus points, salt kills ich)
Also, I’m halfway to freaking out again over my hearing, email me?
So, have we figured out which returning commenter and/or troll who’s still sulking because people here didn’t think they were awesome hostility boy is yet?
(Still catching up)
Is he a returner, or just a faint, flaccid (ha) echo of past trolls? I am not the best at recognizing past commenters sockpuppeting…
Congratulations on your fishies, Argenti. May they be healthy and robust.
I’m trying to save my coffee trees: they were all doing fine and dandy (good light thanks to a southeasterly exposure) but suddenly everything is turning yellow and the leaves are falling off. The younger/smaller trees (6 months old) are almost all dead, and the yearlings are starting to look poorly now.
Are folk sure that hostilitot is a sock? I know he sounded sorta brzzzzy and sorta Al-ish, but I think it could just be as someone on the Raw Story comments was pointing out, that all these jerks talk to each other and listen to the same youtube videos, and read the same crummy websites, and just start to sound alike. Whatever different experiences may have drawn them to the MRA, once they get there, the ick grows all over them and they all begin to sound the same.
Maybe we need to start putting quinine sulfate in with the flouride? Or is that just for ich and not for ick?
I just checked and it is the anti-malaria drug I was thinking of…but it’s also marine ich, different nasty bugger than freshwater ich (don’t ask me, I didn’t name them!)
Otoh, it’s apparently in tonic water, and, for the gun fans among us, a gin and tonic may help with the ick.
*gin fans
A gin and tonic is always welcome. It makes the ick easier to stand the sight of, I suppose…
I was wondering, when you mentioned the quinine, if it was the anti-malarial quinine. I keep a few bottles in the cabinet just in case, and plenty of limes on hand. Got to take precautions against scurvy, don’t you know.
May I suggest raising your standards? At least so that they no longer include plants, walls, and pets.
Hey, you did say “everything and everyone”…
It’s specifically the comment about how he’s been observing us (commenters) for years, followed by a list of grievances, that suggests to me that this is not his first time on this particular ride.
Hey, favorite types of booze would be much more interesting than the troll. Gin – do not like, never have liked. I suppose I could come up with a way to hide the taste, but if you have to do that why not just use a different kind of booze?
Current topic of boozy exploration – anejo tequila. So much better than the standard stuff (blanco) that you get if you order tequila in most places.
I just tried agave liqueur the other day and highly recommend it. It’s sweeter, and has a bit of orange to it. I used it instead of Grand Marnier in a margarita recipe and it definitely works
Iunno, I think he’s just grandstanding when it comes to the whole “I’ve been here for AGES!” bit. I mean, of all people to call a troll (srsly, still lol’ing over here) and get into wah wah business with, I’m haven’t really been around long enough that I think I’d be an eldertroll’s target. And the list of grievances wasn’t really anything but standard “Ur wimmins and feminazis and I h8 that *frowny face*” so…
I vote for new troll, old hat.
Have you tried the lemonade that’s sweetened with agave? I think it’s Naked Juice that makes it. So good.
@ dustydeste
You could be right, they do tend to blend into a congealed mass of rattle-throwing baby after a while.
Should be doing homework (bad Alice!), but I have to say, I just noticed that Argenti and Pecunium are Latin for “silver” and “money” respectively.
Blame the Latin homework. :P
Oh man, I love the booze conversations. I always feel like I’m learning things, which is nice, because I feel like I missed out on my booze-learning time period by switching countries. When I headed north, I’d only been legal for booze in the US for eight months, and then I got here and everyone my age had already been able to buy for two years, plus most of the people I hang out with are older than me… I feel like I’m developmentally delayed when it comes to booze knowledge now, haha.