About these ads

The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something

John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM – especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

About these ads

Posted on October 20, 2013, in a voice for men, are these guys 12 years old?, johntheother, lying liars, misogyny, MRA and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 1,986 Comments.

  1. Ooh… a Pellish comment: The rest of us, who are not subnormally intelligent, were 17 or 18 when we became sophomores at a university.

    Now, me, I’d say “youth” runs until sometime between 22-25. So the majority of it, even if one is enrolled in university by the age of 17, was gone at the age of 14.

    That’s simple arithmetic, doesn’t even require on to logic at all.

    I’m not bad at mathS, I am just a good student.

    You may have excelled at tests. At learning, not so much.

    @ David Futrelle, thank you for finally clearing that up. Now let us see if a certain someone realises that she has a cartonful of egg on her face.

    Assumes facts not in evidence. I have spent time in Germany. I have spent time in Ukraine. I have spent time in Korea. I have spent time in Iraq. I have spent time in Kuwait. I have spent time in Canada. I have spent time in Scotland. I have spent time in England. I have spent time in the US. I have spent time in France.

    I have posted to Manboobz when not in several of those places. It didn’t make me a native, just because that’s where my IP address was.

    “I used the last one and a half hours reading the articles people suggested I read. Well, four of them. I returned here and saw that people had moved on from the topic themselved.”

    So… were they long? Because let me tell you, if it takes you thirty minutes to read things of less than 40 pages, your stellar student skills look much more amazing, what with the lack of sleep you must have had keeping up with the reading.

  2. Also how do you know that the rapists were dull, delusional, or badly informed? How dull would someone have to be to be incapable of understanding consent? Its a very simple concept.
    Wtf does being delusional have to do with rape?
    And “badly informed” is an example of rape culture, as I and many others have addressed before.

  3. @ Marie, I extrapolate from this that those five percent did not realise that what they did was rape.

    Is ignorance of the law an acceptable excuse?
    Would you say that such ignorance could contribute to, or be maintained by some culture of one kind or another?

    Hey! Do you think we should try some kind of campaign to raise awareness of the importance of consent so that people are aware if they’re raping someone? That seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to me. I can’t think of any reason to oppose such a thing… unless there was some culture or other which led people to be violently opposed to it.

  4. I want to go back to the bit where he admitted that he would consider it justifiable to murder people to get what he wants.

  5. McGee: @ Marie, I extrapolate from this that those five percent did not realise that what they did was rape. This is because sexual acts and killing someone are fundamentally different in nature. When somebody is dead, there is no question about ghem being dead. When somebody has been raped, the victim is still alive (hopefully) and the perpetrator’s perception of his action will be his alone.

    Is there a thought there? The rapist’s thoughts aren’t really relevant. Martha Stewart didn’t think she did anything wrong. Cheney doesn’t think waterboarding is torture. Zimmerman thinks he was in the right murdering Trayvon Martin.

    Rape is rape, independent of the “perception” of the rapist.

    @ Marie, I do not see how you can jump from 5 percent of rapists being dull/delusional/badly informed to the conclusion that we live in a rape culture.

    Wow… that’s some mighty good logicking there.

    Let’s take the most favorable numbers… 1:6 women will be raped in their lifetime.

    That’s about 17 percent of women. So of the seventeen percent of women who are raped, 5 percent of their rapists did it by accident. That means 95 percent of those women were intentionally raped.

    But you don’t think that’s evidence of a rape culture, that more than 15 out of 17 rapes were done on purpose.

  6. …Maybe that’s why he doesn’t think rape culture exists! Because “well, it wasn’t really murder, because that judge was an activist” actually does sound like good logic to him!

  7. Sorry, should not have said 5 percent of rapists. 5 percent of men. Well, I tried to say it earlier, but I’ll try again. Murder is cut-and-dry by its very nature. When somebody is dead, they are dead and only the most delusional killers will succeed at bullshitting themselves into thinking that they did not just kill somebody.

    Rape does not always involve killing somebody. It is a sexual crime that involves sexual activity. Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright.

  8. Also this is one of the ways rape culture leads to people excusing rape. “He just misunderstood” is often used to dismiss rape. Not just with not understanding consent, but if the victim flirted beforehand, people might excuse him by saying “He assumed she was OK with sex, if she wasn’t then why would she be flirting?”

  9. 1:20 is a huge number… that’s higher than the male rape number of 1:33… seriously, given a rough estimate of 313 million people in the USA, half of them being men, that’s like 7.8 million male rapists… given similar numbers: 39 million women victims of completed rape (1:4), 4.7 million men victims of completed rape (1:33). In just the United States… Assuming no one outside the USA has ever been raped (which is ridiculous because the numbers are closer to 1:3 in Canada for women and I’m assuming places elsewhere aren’t much better but for the sake of argument) that’s 0.013% of the world’s population for women victims ish… That’s fucking enormous…

  10. katz: I want to go back to the bit where he admitted that he would consider it justifiable to murder people to get what he wants.

    That would require him to admit questions exist outside of his desire to answer them/pretend he answered them.

    You know, admit there is a real world outside his head.

  11. I do not see how you can jump from 5 percent of rapists being dull/delusional/badly informed to the conclusion that we live in a rape culture.

    Hey, just for the record, Asshole McGee conflated “all men” and “all rapists” back up the thread a little bit. I wasn’t going to engage today, given that I’m busy with a deadline and all, but I am reading everything, and that was too funny to pass up.

  12. Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright.

    But I thought rape culture didn’t exist? You were quite adamant about this.

  13. @ahostileworld

    Rape does not always involve killing somebody. It is a sexual crime that involves sexual activity. Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright.

    This is not about whether people are fooling themselves into thinking what they did was alright. It is about 5% of men being rapists, and you thinking that’s an insignificant number, and that 1 in 20 men being a rapist means we’re not in a rape culture. the fact that so many people did not know what they did was rape does not in any way change rape culture. it just exemplifies the fact that lots of people don’t know what rape is.

  14. There isn’t really any better comparison I can come up with that doesn’t involve property crime and that’s a shitty comparison I’d rather not make… Um… hm, have to think on that one a bit…

  15. Sorry, should not have said 5 percent of rapists. 5 percent of men. Well, I tried to say it earlier, but I’ll try again. Murder is cut-and-dry by its very nature. When somebody is dead, they are dead and only the most delusional killers will succeed at bullshitting themselves into thinking that they did not just kill somebody.

    You underestimate the ways in which people rationalise.

    Large numbers of people have killed others and said, “it was an accident, it wasn’t murder! I didn’t mean to kill them!”.

    Not surprising really, given the way you deny rape, and rape culture, and your own words.

  16. “Murder is cut-and-dry by its very nature.”

    Actually murder is a lot less clear than rape. Consent is really not a hard concept. Sex is very specific. Murder, however, is more broad, so there’s more “grey” cases. Like if a driver isn’t paying attention or something and hits a pedestrian.

    ” Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright.”

    Which is rape culture. That’s one way society excuses rape. It’s “easy” because our culture makes it easy.

  17. Athywren, what you just quoted from me can in no world of reason be paraphrased as ‘rape culture exists’.

  18. No Compelling Evidence: Emo

    You Can Jump From 5: ska

    When Somebody is Dead: shoe gaze

    Longer Than 20 Minutes: skiffle

    The Topic Themselved: Scandinavian prog rock

  19. “Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright.”

    It’s odd that you of all people say this doesn’t happen with murder and other violent crimes, since yesterday you were arguing that arson and war tactics were *necessary* to stop circumcision.

  20. So you would murder people, right? I’m still not past this.

  21. ‘Which is rape culture’ – so in other words, ‘rape culture’ is whatever you want it to be.

  22. Asshole: Athywren, what you just quoted from me can in no world of reason be paraphrased as ‘rape culture exists’.

    Au contraire, mon ami

    As evidenced by Athywren (a person amply shown to be possessed of reason) so construing it.

    But I understand, having one’s petard be thing on which one is hoist is unpleasant.

  23. Old Hat, Try Harder: Country

    This is my fave band name, tip of the hat to Katz.

  24. “Athywren, what you just quoted from me can in no world of reason be paraphrased as ‘rape culture exists’.”

    The fuck? You might as well have neon “RAPE CULTURE” signs pointing towards what you said.

  25. We’ve already defined rape culture. Since we can go back thread I’m assuming you can too. You should prolly go look at the fucking words others have written before trying to claim that no one has defined this thing that everyone’s been defining…

  26. Yes, sadly, killing people has been necessary too often in history and it will be necessary again. The world is not Disneyland.

  27. “‘Which is rape culture’ – so in other words, ‘rape culture’ is whatever you want it to be.”

    What?

  28. The Topic Themselved: Scandinavian prog rock

    Another band like A-Ha that sings in English but don’t actually know English that well, so their lyrics have that adorable Google-translate feel to them. “Take On Me?”

  29. @ahostileworld

    Athywren, what you just quoted from me can in no world of reason be paraphrased as ‘rape culture exists’.

    What Athywren quoted:

    Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright.

    You just said it was much easier to fool yourself into thinking rape was okay. That is because rape culture exists. You try to prove it doesn’t exist by…pointing out the people may not have known it was rape? But that proves the exact opposite of your point. People don’t know what rape is because it’s viewed as “scary stranger jumps out and attacks woman” so rape that happens between two people who know each other is just a ‘misunderstanding’. while trying to prove rape culture exists your words say almost the exact opposite.

  30. So you do support murder in the name of ending circumcision?

  31. “Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright.”

    Unlike those,”edge cases” where one has to break shit (even if it puts others at risk) to make one’s efforts in the realm of civil rights noticed.

    You know, where you compared the struggle against male circumcision, and parental custody to WW2 where, firebombing entire cities was essential to the cause.

  32. Yes, sadly, killing people has been necessary too often in history and it will be necessary again. The world is not Disneyland.

    hrmn… sounds like you have a fuzzy idea of murder, to go along with your fuzzy idea of rape.

  33. @ahostileworld

    Yes, sadly, killing people has been necessary too often in history and it will be necessary again. The world is not Disneyland.

    Not going to get into whether killing people can be justified or necessary, but more often than not, it’s not. And what is justified/ necessary changes from person to person. More of why it’s better to not fucking kill people because they’ll all have different ideas of what is/ isn’t justified. Things might work out better if less people are dead :/

  34. So ahostileworld, I’m drawing a comic with you. Would you like to furnish me with a physical description?

  35. Athywren, what you just quoted from me can in no world of reason be paraphrased as ‘rape culture exists’.

    Not by your crocoduck interpretation of rape culture, no, but by the actual definition? Yes, exactly. Rapists can excuse their rape as not rape is very much an aspect of rape culture.

    ‘Which is rape culture’ – so in other words, ‘rape culture’ is whatever you want it to be.

    No. Rape culture is that which defends, excuses and obfuscates rape. It couldn’t be that scene in that movie where there’s a bomb that they manage to disarm just in time.

  36. The World Is Not Disneyland: Prog Rock

    ahostileworld: since you’ve made your own bog, perhaps you should go there.

  37. As evidenced by Athywren (a person amply shown to be possessed of reason) so construing it.

    D’aww. *blush*
    Flattening will get you anywhere!

  38. Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright

    I could break it down…

    Fooling yourself into thinking you didn’t rape someone = believing that the actions you took were not rape = you thinking that what you “gathered” was consent or, alternatively, thinking that consent was automatic and no one took it away. This is “alright” because you a) are ignorant of what consent means, b) are ok with the actions you took that were in fact rape, c) are not only okay with it, but you’ve managed to justify it to yourself. How is this possible if consent is so clearly defined, everyone knows what it is, and rape isn’t culturally acceptable?

    Please, please tell me how you manage to say both:

    a) a fuckload of people (5% of men) can be ok with their actions of raping someone enough that they don’t even know they’ve committed rape

    and,

    b) that there is a culture in society today that denounces rape so hard and so strongly that these people couldn’t possibly believe what they were doing is right.

    Saying there is no rape culture is de facto saying, in your own words, that rape is so heinous and well defined that there should never be a misunderstanding and it’s so roundly denounced that no one should ever be okay with their actions being rape.

    Which is incongruous with saying that a large percentage of the male population is actually able to “fool” themselves into thinking what they did was straight up totes okay.

    It’s kinda one or the other here, you can’t have both. If you’re trying to say you can have both, you need to go the extra step and explain why they make sense, because from where I’m sitting (I have one of those gender studies degrees you were whinging about earlier, and I also have a med degree which is imo pretty STEM so yea, pretty well rounded education) those two things are completely at odds.

  39. ‘Which is rape culture’ – so in other words, ‘rape culture’ is whatever you want it to be.

    That’s certainly how you use the term.

  40. Also, explain why you think that the 5% was delusional, dull, or ill informed? Being dull or delusional doesn’t make you any more prone to rape. Not understanding consent makes sense, but it’s not the only reason it happens.

  41. ‘You try to prove it doesn’t exist by…pointing out the people may not have known it was rape?’

    I am not trying to prove anything. So now you are saying that 5 percent of men not knowing they are rapists is indicative of a ‘rape culture’. That leaves around 98 percent of humanity with a clear view of what is rape. So in other words, *we* live in a ‘rape culture’ that is determined defined by just over 2 percent of humanity? What influence do the other 98 percent have on humanity?

  42. *bangs head on wall* oh hostile one, I have an anecdote for you. See, I’ve got this ex, he’s on Megan’s list now, and well, here…

    See, this teenage boy, non-white (this is relevant) posted an ad on CL seeking an NSA sexytime encounter. My ex saw it, replied, and, long story short, got caught with his pants literally down and a 14 year old sucking his cock. My wonderful example of human idiocy maintains, probably to this day, that he did nothing wrong because the kid was literally seeking sexytimes.

    That, oh fish monger, is how rapists justify their actions. And when it sounds plausible to other people, when other people (who are not rapists themselves) use similar “logic” when talking to victims, that, oh hostile one, is rape culture.

    Pecunium — what kills me is that I’m fairly sure I saw that fucking spindle my first 5 min in your place, but my brain was too scrambled to remember where. Glad your bobbin chaos is sorted though, you were making grumpy faces about that one.

  43. Oh, I failed to mention how the kid’s skin color is relevant — said ex logic’ed that he could get away with it because kid’s parents wouldn’t care what happened to him.

    So you can add good old American racism to that fucked up mess.

  44. Sittiekitty, THANK YOU.

  45. A thread only a couple days old with more than 1,200 posts? Whaddya know, a troll.

    I still haven’t caught up (will do, eventually), but as one of the resident Troll to English translators here, I just want to apologize for not having been able to interpret our hostile visitor’s drivel. It’s just that… how do I put this? You know when someone who hasn’t understood how absurd, surreal humor works randomly goes “bananasplits engage furiously of butterfingers misandry”, thinking that it’s funny because OMG SO RANDOM?

    That’s what this is. Still have to echo an earlier statement: At least this troll has actually acknowledged that there are posts addressing zir, which is more than can be said for many others. If only the stuff ze wrote was consistent instead of all over the place.

  46. @ 36 years old, grey hair, wheelchair-bound, on the larger side.

  47. “I am not trying to prove anything. So now you are saying that 5 percent of men not knowing they are rapists is indicative of a ‘rape culture’. That leaves around 98 percent of humanity with a clear view of what is rape. So in other words, *we* live in a ‘rape culture’ that is determined defined by just over 2 percent of humanity? What influence do the other 98 percent have on humanity?”

    You don’t have to be a rapist to perpetuate rape culture. Look at Maryville, Rehtaeh Parsons, Steubenville, and all the other examples we gave. You really think that everyone but the rapists had a clear understanding of rape?
    Also look at the goddam definition of rape culture we gave you.

  48. @katz.

    Yay! Pierre!

    Can he look like Basil Fawlty?

    You know, bigoted, white, BRITISH and bafflingly stupid?

  49. “hrmn… sounds like you have a fuzzy idea of murder, to go along with your fuzzy idea of rape.”

    Yeah well we already determined that assuming he was using pro-life definitions of murder makes us pro-life. You expect him to understand warfare?

    Relatedly, my mother had the perfect answer to That Question — “keep it up and I will have”

  50. @ 36 years old, grey hair, wheelchair-bound, on the larger side.

    Thanks!

  51. The world is not Disneyland. Here are some other amusement parks the world is not:
    * The world is not Tivoli Gardens
    * The world is not Xetulul
    * The world is not Storybook Land
    * The world is not Overseas Chinese Town
    * The world is not the EPCOT Center

    Other things the world is not:
    * Castanets
    * A Mylar balloon
    * My stepson
    * A suede jacket
    * Tempeh bacon

    I’m not sure how this advances the discussion, but I’m happy to have made a contribution at least as valuable and interesting as anything Mr. Hostility has written.

  52. @ahostileworld

    I am not trying to prove anything. So now you are saying that 5 percent of men not knowing they are rapists is indicative of a ‘rape culture’. That leaves around 98 percent of humanity with a clear view of what is rape. So in other words, *we* live in a ‘rape culture’ that is determined defined by just over 2 percent of humanity? What influence do the other 98 percent have on humanity?

    Okay. How on earth can you convince yourself 5% of men raping people is insignificant? I mean, I can’t even sentence right now. It’s like…bwuh?

    Also, if 5% of men did it and didn’t know what it is, there are probably lots of other men (and women) who have a similiar idea, but just haven’t done it. FFS

  53. Oh, @Argenti, I’m sorry. :(

  54. The world is not Dollywood.

  55. Which definition? I got so many. Everyone of you had a different one. Like I said. It is what you want it to be.

    Yes, I do think everone who is not a rapist understands what rape is. This is the reason I do not fuck everything and everyone I see.

  56. McGee: I am not trying to prove anything.

    You’d better be, sweetheart, otherwise we will continue to remain unconvinced in the lack of Rape Culture. Now, if you would rather not try to prove there is no rape culture, and concede defeat, we will understand.

    We’ll even be magnanimous enough not to tell all your pals you couldn’t win an argument with a bunch of stupid feminists who didn’t get to Uni until our youth was mostly spent.

  57. Yes, I do think everone who is not a rapist understands what rape is.

    So what is rape?

  58. I’m not sure how this advances the discussion, but I’m happy to have made a contribution at least as valuable and interesting as anything Mr. Hostility has written.

    [TW:Rape]

    Well… I could think of a way that Disneyland is applicable to this conversation, because I remember a fucked up story about a women who worked at Disneyland who was raped by a coworker and the park did fuck all about it except tell her she either imagined it or misunderstood or something and that an investigation was going on when it really wasn’t. Can’t remember where I read it, but it made me sad as hell :(

  59. Radical Parrot, To sum up this troll:
    -Majority of MRAs don’t care about stupid things like friendzoning, they care about actual issues.
    -feminists from the early 1900s sawed down phone poles, and that’s terrible
    -Terrorism and defacing art is totes OK, like for circumcision and “father’s rights”
    -Art is whatever I like
    -You guys aren’t feminists, I’m the real feminist!
    -you guys are pro-life! (he said something about “baby killers” so we asked him if that was referring to abortion, apparently we are pro-life for that)
    -Doesn’t understand negative and positive claims. Continues to be completely obtuse about this even with a shit ton of explanations.
    -this page. Apparently rape culture doesn’t exist because many people excuse rape. Huh.

  60. @ahostileworld

    Which definition? I got so many. Everyone of you had a different one. Like I said. It is what you want it to be.

    Where have people been contradictory? Provide examples.

  61. ‘You’d better be, sweetheart, otherwise we will continue to remain unconvinced in the lack of Rape Culture.’

    Burden of proof, my treasure, burden of proof!

  62. ahostileworld, (in case you missed it, this was directed at you)

    Here, it is much easier to fool yourself into thinking that what you just did was alright

    I could break it down…

    Fooling yourself into thinking you didn’t rape someone = believing that the actions you took were not rape = you thinking that what you “gathered” was consent or, alternatively, thinking that consent was automatic and no one took it away. This is “alright” because you a) are ignorant of what consent means, b) are ok with the actions you took that were in fact rape, c) are not only okay with it, but you’ve managed to justify it to yourself. How is this possible if consent is so clearly defined, everyone knows what it is, and rape isn’t culturally acceptable?

    Please, please tell me how you manage to say both:

    a) a fuckload of people (5% of men) can be ok with their actions of raping someone enough that they don’t even know they’ve committed rape

    and,

    b) that there is a culture in society today that denounces rape so hard and so strongly that these people couldn’t possibly believe what they were doing is right.

    Saying there is no rape culture is de facto saying, in your own words, that rape is so heinous and well defined that there should never be a misunderstanding and it’s so roundly denounced that no one should ever be okay with their actions being rape.

    Which is incongruous with saying that a large percentage of the male population is actually able to “fool” themselves into thinking what they did was straight up totes okay.

    It’s kinda one or the other here, you can’t have both. If you’re trying to say you can have both, you need to go the extra step and explain why they make sense, because from where I’m sitting (I have one of those gender studies degrees you were whinging about earlier, and I also have a med degree which is imo pretty STEM so yea, pretty well rounded education) those two things are completely at odds.

  63. I’ve got to run out for hay for my piggies, but I will be right back. Keep the troll warm for me! :3

  64. Any sexual intercourse without consent.

  65. The world
    is not
    a great, big
    onioooooon
    … I don’t know how the rest of that song goes…

  66. Another band like A-Ha that sings in English but don’t actually know English that well, so their lyrics have that adorable Google-translate feel to them. “Take On Me?”

    I associate European prog rock with terrible band names because in the early 70s there was a German prog rock band called Birth Control. IMHO, Birth Control is the worst band name ever and English as a second language is the only reasonable excuse for it.

    Most Scandinavian bands lyrics aren’t that bad, but they all (from Abba to Peter Bjorn and John) sing with that slight adorable accent. I should have said German prog rock, if only to honor ahostleworld. Sorry Scandinavia!

  67. Alright, late here in Europe. Maybe later then.

  68. That was @Katz. Jesus, this thread is flying!

  69. Burden of proof, my treasure, burden of proof!

    Yes, and you has it: (or was the last time I linked to an explanation too long for your studly student brain?

    You are trying to convince us.

    That means you have to you know, convince. If you won’t, then you lose. That’s Debate 101 (which in many institutes of higher learning is called Logic, just to put a bit of topicality to the discussion).

    So, tell me, was it your military career which led to you being in wheelchair?

  70. …that doesn’t even make sense…

    Ophelia — meh, it was years ago and this is gaslighting narcissist ex, so that’s actually just the tip of the shit sundae.

    Pecunium — oh my dearest mango hater, if only we all understood what rape is. Would make my life so much easier in oh so many ways!

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 8,495 other followers

%d bloggers like this: