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The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something

John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM – especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

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Posted on October 20, 2013, in a voice for men, are these guys 12 years old?, johntheother, lying liars, misogyny, MRA and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 1,986 Comments.

  1. The witchy kitties are correct, because I totally love them!!

  2. Good grief. This is what happens when you piss away your youth in a gender studies class rather than studying something useful like mathematics or chemistry. Your ability to think logically is obviously indelibly compromised.

    When faced with a generic Gender/Women’s Studies insult I turn to Shaenon’s “A Young Lady’s Guide to Higher Education” for illumination.

    Q: What is MRA’s deal with Gender/Women’s studies anyway? Do a lot of people get those degrees? Is that inherently stupider than getting degree in philosophy or marketing or Latin-American studies or poli-sci? Or is it just that gender isn’t worth talking about academically?)

    A: Obviously it’s the stupidest degree because it studies women, the stupidest people. Second stupidest is a tie between all degrees held by large numbers of women, from English lit to biochemistry.

    Third stupidest: Puppetry.

  3. Also why did he say passed away our “youth” in gender studies? Most of our youth is “pissed away” at preschool, middle school, and high school, where there’s rarely gender studies classes.

  4. Okay, so maybe no snorgling, but this puffer fish is pretty darn cute!

  5. Sure your youth is over by the time you reach university,

    IF

    you’re a dolt

    you were lazy

    you had to repeat numerous years

    you are 87 by the time they finally, grudgingly, allow you to get a tertiary education

    The rest of us, who are not subnormally intelligent, were 17 or 18 when we became sophomores at a university.

  6. Oh geez, the new troll is just a blog spammer.

  7. Puffers? This is what my little guy is.

    They don’t really snuggle though…

  8. Oh sweetie, I’d go and read your blog, but I fear all I’d hear is:

  9. Sophomores? Cuz I was 18 my freshmen year, did not stay back, and was one of the youngest in my graduating class.

    You suck at math. Big surprise that is.

  10. I’m not bad at mathS, I am just a good student.

  11. Who apparently skipped at least two grades and has decided that makes the rest of us dumb.

    Not that anyone with your scattershot logic and lack of understand positive v negative arguments skipped two grades.

  12. @ahostileworld

    Why do I care what age someone leaves a university at? And I think you just have a different definition of ‘youth’ than most people. (others seemed to think under 18, ie: high school, middle school, ect.)

    I’m not bad at mathS, I am just a good student.

    …You said:

    The rest of us, who are not subnormally intelligent, were 17 or 18 when we became sophomores at a university.

    Implies either you think everyone skipped a grade or two, or you made a mistake in your math. I’m guessing it’s the later one.

  13. I was 23. I’m glad I took my time over applying – if I’d gone straight from school, I would’ve studied literature. That would’ve been fine, of course, but it wouldn’t have been as inspiring as physics and astronomy have been.

  14. ‘Not that anyone with your scattershot logic and lack of understand positive v negative arguments skipped two grades.’

    Yeah, there’s your lack of academic success, right there. Work on it.

  15. FWIW, hostile IS posting from Germany. But jeeez. Either a massive troll or the most obtuse arguer alive.

  16. As for the talk shop about WW2, you are now trying to divorce the Allied victory from the bombing campaign. Absurdly enough, you mention ‘loss of manpower’ that incurred Germany’ eventual defeat. May I ask who lived in those cities? People perhaps?? Who provided…manpower???

    Thanks for answering my question!

    Since you have the memory of a flea, I’ll recap: You originally brought up WWII to justify why you should be able to burn down people’s houses if it’s important for accomplishing your goals. You said that the Allies couldn’t have won WWII without burning down some houses. This inspired several of us to ask whether you were also allowed to murder people if it would help your cause. You refused to answer.

    But you’re now saying that the Allies couldn’t have won WWII without killing a bunch of people, and since you’ve previously considered “the Allies needed to do it in WWII” sufficient proof that you should also be able to do that for your own cause, you are now advocating murdering people.

  17. “Sure your youth is over by the time you reach university”

    I said *most* of our youth.

  18. Also address all of our evidences for rape culture.

  19. @ David Futrelle, thank you for finally clearing that up. Now let us see if a certain someone realises that she has a cartonful of egg on her face.

  20. <blockqutoe.Yeah, there’s your lack of academic success, right there. Work on it

    wow. apparently we are all failures because we didn’t skip grades XD (or most of us. Idk if anyone did.)

    Hey, ahostileworld, I skipped two grades, but they were 11 and 12, and then I got my GED XD

  21. You are still the idiot who thinks he can argue coherently without presenting a shred of evidence.

    But that point is moot, you are only here to promote your stupid blog, anyway.

  22. A little bright spark here for those living in the night: it’s called a fetus when it’s still in, it’s called a baby when it’s out.

    Sorry, haven’t caught up yet, dunno if they’re even still not banned, but to correct this bullshit (because fuck wrong gestational crap and I KNOW THIS STUFF AND IT PISSES ME OFF)…

    It’s actually called a blastocyst until it’s implanted and differentiates into the embryo and placental tissue. It’s an embryo until approx 8 weeks after fertilization (or 10 weeks in regular gestational timing lingo), then it’s considered a fetus until birth, whereupon it’s called a neonate, then varyingly an infant, toddler, child, preteen, teen, adult.

    A baby is not a technical term and can be used for all stages of development. It’s often used as a term in obstetrics because fetus is clinical and often implies inhumanity and most people who are going through prenatal care are intending to carry to term. So baby is usually used to make it seem familiar and human to the parents of said child.

    Two completely different terms used for two completely different things.

    Christ, bullshit about obstetrics annoys me so much. It’s not like there isn’t enough falsehoods and lies and mistruths out there…

  23. Old Hat, Try Harder: Country

    Look Here, Sunshine: Bubblegum pop

    Your Own Imaginary Friend: Indie folk

    Yeahyeahyeah: Okay, that actually is (very similar to) a real band name.

  24. Yes, because my blog is empty.

  25. gillyrosebee – yeah, I’m getting a whiff of Al socks from this one.

    ::crosses fingers in hopes that later thread comments will show David’s banned kicked his arse off the site::

  26. I don’t see how you couldn’t study both gender studies and chemistry.

    Especially since biology is required for gender studies.

  27. Sure your youth is over by the time you reach university,

    IF

    you’re a dolt

    you were lazy

    you had to repeat numerous years

    you are 87 by the time they finally, grudgingly, allow you to get a tertiary education

    The rest of us, who are not subnormally intelligent, were 17 or 18 when we became sophomores at a university.

    I’m sorry to break it to you, but there are many good reasons one would want to delay university. Not everyone can fit into your stupid categories.

  28. Athywren – surely that should be the CATway gods?

    Becaues kitties!

  29. Why did he make a blog just for posting this article?

  30. Interestingly, the religionists on this website use the same arguments that Christian religionists use elsewhere

    “No who I’m talking to, when I make this argument, everyone responds the same way.” A damning condemnation if I’ve ever heard one.

  31. He was playing around with wordpress because he was unfamiliar with the software and he is not a blogger and will not be a blogger anytime soon.

  32. Incidentally, ahostileworld, you’re still strongly opposed to going off-topic and you consider that trolling, right?

  33. 3rd person now?

  34. I used the last one and a half hours reading the articles people suggested I read. Well, four of them. I returned here and saw that people had moved on from the topic themselved.

  35. Bwaahaahaahaa , trollin’ the troll.

    Hostile, sweetie, my Hubby used to work in Germany, don’t make him German!

    Personally still not believing you till you do that dance and song act I requested earlier.

    Nom, nom, nom luvly, luvly eggs. :)

  36. “Yeah, there’s your lack of academic success, right there. Work on it.”

    What is this even supposed to mean? Cuz I’m glad I didn’t get pushed ahead when I could’ve — I would’ve been taking calculus at Yale at 16 or 17.

    Good luck insulting my intelligence, pecunium may well be the only person I know, who isn’t too buried in work to email, who’s smarter than me. (No insult to the rest of y’all, I mean people I know face-to-face)

    …and we’ve seen what he thinks of your intelligence

  37. @troll

    2013 at 5:48 pm

    I used the last one and a half hours reading the articles people suggested I read. Well, four of them. I returned here and saw that people had moved on from the topic themselved.

    The world does not revolve around you. of course we moved on.

    Though now that you’re back, respond.

  38. I’ve posted from the US on occasion – does that make me American?

    (Hope not, I don’t need the Republicans harassing me. Gods know our government’s bad enough.)

  39. “I used the last one and a half hours reading the articles people suggested I read. Well, four of them. I returned here and saw that people had moved on from the topic themselved.”

    It takes you over 20 minutes to read an article?

  40. Also, ALL THE SNUGGLES for witchy kitty love! ♥ ♥ ♥

  41. Athywren – surely that should be the CATway gods?

    Becaues kitties!

    YES!
    For the record, though I invented the name out of whole cloth, they do exist. They don’t have any power, and they don’t talk or anything but they’re as much gods as any other god. They look a lot like this.

  42. pecunium is also super articulate and that’s fucking fantastic.

  43. Also, we are being the topic back to them, so yes you have to address them. And not just Marie’s links, all of our examples.

  44. Yes it did take me much longer than 20 minutes.

    @ Marie, respond to what specifically. A whole range of things were said.

  45. All of them, dipshit. What else would she be referring to?

  46. This is what happens when you piss away your youth in a gender studies class rather than studying something useful like mathematics or chemistry.

    Okay, look, if you’re going to dismiss other people’s backgrounds as worthless, you need to stop there at “useful.” As soon as you add what you would consider useful, it no longer works as a dismissal because it can turn out that I majored in chemistry.

    Because I did.

  47. McGee: This is what happens when you sleep through class. You made an assertion of fact. That, from a logical standpoint is a positive claim. You are poistive rape culture doesn’t exist.

    Have some elaboration:Burden of Proof

    You have not. You just have not. You like your own imaginary friend better than other people’s imaginary friends, but it is still just that: an imaginary friend.

    You lie, you just continue to lie.

    What is the rate of rape in the US/UK?

    What is the rate of conviction for accused rapists?

    What is the level of credibility given to women who report being raped?

    How many men admit to engaging in activities which are legally rape?

    The answer to those questions, and more, have been provided. You don’t like them, and pretend they never happened.

    So, sweetcheeks, gonna respond to those, or treat it like your time on the General Staff… something to pretend you never demanded.

    2.) It is neither particularly rare nor particularly common.

    Liar. Rates between 1:6-1:4, it’s right up there with jaywalking.

    Then again, when you posited that “no one has ever been helped by the idea of rape culture”, you got testimony showing you were talking out your ass (which, since you keep your head up there, seems to be par for the course), and blithely moved the goalposts… well intellectual honesty and you seem to be unacquainted.

    My nationality. This ophelia individual has been sniffing around it for I don’t know how long.

    No, that’s actually not the issue; it’s the tactic. The issue is your level of veracity. The question of your nationality is just one of the more obvious tokens of it. That it’s so needless is what makes it probative.

    Yeahyeahyeah, you’re totes studying a STEM subject. You do realise that consistent lack of evidence results in the rejection of the hypothesis? Yes? So if I claim there is a teddy bear under my bed and people have a look and they don’t see one, they will conclude that there is no teddy bear under my bed? Right?

    yanno, for a non-native speaker who resides in his country of birth, you are really hep to the lingo of some decidedly anglo-centric issues of gender relations; metaphors and idioms culturally relevant to the US, and spellings idiosyncratic to affected twits and older brits.

    I wonder why that is.

  48. BlackBloc: Where did you get your STEM degree, so that I can cross it off the list of schools to potentially send my nephew and/or eventual children to?

    The same place he got the military experience he demanded the rest of us possess before we could opine on what the Allies ought/ought not have done in WW2; as he was telling us RAF Bomber Command was the Non-Russian contribution to victory in Europe (D-Day, N. Africa, Italy and the rest of the “second fronts” being immaterial).

  49. Ninja’d by Auggz. All of them. I only did four or five links. And Argenti linked you to some studies on google scholar, if you’d rather studies than anecdote. Though one of mine was a study.

    Okay, lets start with the one where five percent of men admitted to raping someone.

    Do you really think five percent of people would admit to murdering someone? (one of your comparison crimes)

  50. The sock smell is getting stronger every minute with this one, regardless of apparent location.

  51. Argenti: Oh… the fucking mauve sockyarn… Yes, that’s done. I’m on my second project since then (about to be done with it. Two short makes, and then three-reels and one plyig session).

    Bobbin problem is fixed (a bit of needle filing). Spindle is still missing. Since my pension isn’t going to be fucked up, I may order a couple one of those spindles to replace the missing one; and a few more bobbins so I can do more drop-spinning (I want bobbins to reel spindles onto, so I can make longer skeins of drop-spun yarns).

  52. auggziliary, you fail to impress. In response to my scepticism toward the usefulness of the term ‘rape culture’ I was asked to read a series of articles. My question is fair. I should like to know which point specifically I should address now that I read the articles, unless of course throwing a whole bunch of URLs at me was just a case of spray and pray.

  53. In the YAY! dept. I got an envelope from Shaennon today.

  54. I returned here and saw that people had moved on from the topic themselved.

    Sigh. You’re still forgetting that we can scroll up and see that you brought up what people studied in college completely out of the blue. As well as pretty much every topic change we’ve had in this exceptionally wide-ranging conversation.

    And if you can detect derailing from light-years off, why are you so bad at preventing it?

  55. You were given not only articles, but also stats and anecdotes from many other members, including myself. What else would she be referring to? We were talking about evidence for rape culture, so of course she’s referring to the evidence we gave.

  56. My Blog Is Empty: chiptune

    One and a Half Hours: pop rock

  57. @ Marie, I extrapolate from this that those five percent did not realise that what they did was rape. This is because sexual acts and killing someone are fundamentally different in nature. When somebody is dead, there is no question about ghem being dead. When somebody has been raped, the victim is still alive (hopefully) and the perpetrator’s perception of his action will be his alone.

  58. Even if she wasn’t asking for all of it, I’m asking you to address mine too. Hell, I want you to address all of it.

  59. @ahostileworld

    Yes. Aaaaannnddd it still was rape. Just because they didn’t think it was rape doesn’t mean it wasn’t rape. the fact that they don’t know what rape is makes it very telling that we live in a rape culture.

  60. Well, actually the perception happens to include the fucking victim too. They don’t just stop existing, as you’ve helpfully “hopefully” pointed out in your comment…

    Kind of a big issue that consent is so fucking hard for some rapists to grasp eh? Prolly has something to do with that rape culture people have been talking about…

  61. @ Marie, I do not see how you can jump from 5 percent of rapists being dull/delusional/badly informed to the conclusion that we live in a rape culture.

  62. And that’s the point dipshit. People have different personal definitions of rape, when there’s really only one clear legal one. You don’t have that with any other crime. That’s rape culture. People thinking “it wasn’t really rape since she was passed out and didn’t know” or “she went out with me, so she was gonna get dicked whether she liked it or not” is rape culture.

  63. Be specific.

    Post-industrial electronic body music.

    That’s about as specific as I can think of.

  64. So because they didn’t understand consent it’s suddenly doesn’t matter that they raped someone?

  65. So because they didn’t understand consent it’s suddenly doesn’t matter that they raped someone?

    No no no, see the victim of the crime, the person who didn’t consent, they don’t have a say at all in how consent matters…

    actually, that just gave me a sad because it’s totally fucking true since they’ve been raped… sigh. life is shitty.

  66. @ahostileworld

    @ Marie, I do not see how you can jump from 5 percent of rapists being dull/delusional/badly informed to the conclusion that we live in a rape culture.

    Okay. Again: find 5% of people who think killing people isn’t murder. 5% is a lot bigger than it sounds. 1 in 20. Probably someone you know is a rapist. I don’t think that’s as common for murderers*

    *the whole rape/ murder comparison isn’t the best, especially since in the US killing of people of color is viewed as justified and not often punished. So we may need another crime comparison.

  67. ^is often viewed. Especially by the justice system.

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