About these ads

The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something

John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM – especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

About these ads

Posted on October 20, 2013, in a voice for men, are these guys 12 years old?, johntheother, lying liars, misogyny, MRA and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 1,986 Comments.

  1. I’ll take your (pretend) incredulity as a compliment on my English. Thank you.

  2. But, since you have obviously been lurking (or perhaps posting under another nym… there does seem to be some emotional baggage on your part) for quite some time, you really ought to be better versed in how your attempts to duck questions, shift goalposts (I almost typoed that as gaolposts; but you aren’t in jail, save the one caused by your blinkered thinking), and otherwise “win” by, “scoring points” wasn’t going to go well.
    Because to pull that off, you need to have a plan, with an end game. You have to use evidence, consistent arguments and coherent reasoning. You need to know when to use insult, and have some idea of what insult will be effective.

    You are, rather, using the poo-flinger strategy; throwing it all against the wall, and seeing what sticks. That’s ok for performance art in low-rent bohemian coffeehouses, but in the real world leads to the futile display you’ve put on view here.

    Wait – is Hostile Pooflinger perhaps schooling us in the ways of art interpretation AND activism by artfully flinging poo in an attempt to prove that 1) anything can be art and 2) any attention, be it negative or positive, is good for “the cause”?

    Nah, that still fails because even though 1 can be argued that trolling is an art form, this troll is still doing it badly and 2 he didn’t manage to do anything with the negative attention he garnered aside from make himself look stupid.

    What was it Pooflinger was saying again about pointless internet activism?

  3. McGee: My nationality. This ophelia individual has been sniffing around it for I don’t know how long.

    No, that’s actually not the issue; it’s the tactic. The issue is your level of veracity. The question of your nationality is just one of the more obvious tokens of it. That it’s so needless is what makes it probative.

  4. “But, since you ask, I didn’t attack you for your, putative, nationality. I questioned your underlying veracity. No hypocrisy involved. You implied (when you said, you ought rather have used, “sheila”) that you were Australian.* You then announced you were German.”

    That was starterlifesydney, Pecunium, not doucheyhostileknickers.

  5. McGee: As for the talk shop about WW2, you are now trying to divorce the Allied victory from the bombing campaign

    Nope. I am taking you at your words, that RAF Bomber Command and the Red Army are why the Allies won the war.

    (pro-tip, some of us have memories longer than one sentence, also, we can check them against the actual words)

    Absurdly enough, you mention ‘loss of manpower’ that incurred Germany’ eventual defeat. May I ask who lived in those cities? People perhaps?? Who provided…manpower???

    Not absurd; read for context: the loss of manpower was in trained soldiers (units don’t have combat experience, individuals do). Furthermore, by the time of the Dresden, Cologne, etc., bombings, the males of military age were already in uniform, and the aged-out reservists were being recalled.*

    But the issue wasn’t, actually, the strategy and tactics of the allies, it was
    why [are] you are so well versed in the ways of Strategy and Tactics that we ought to take your word as dispositive

    I’m betting you still won’t answer it.

    *I see you aren’t much clearer on the issues of manpower logistics and training than you are on grammar and logic.

  6. McGee: ut the issue wasn’t, actually, the strategy and tactics of the allies, it was
    why [are] you are so well versed in the ways of Strategy and Tactics that we ought to take your word as dispositive

    And the reason I keep asking is because you demanded a standard of experience from us. I’m just holding you to your standard:

    why you are so well versed in the ways of Strategy and Tactics that we ought to take your word as dispositive on the effect of indiscriminate bombing of non-military targets; nor your fatuous claim that such bombing was strongly effective in the Allied Victory [placing it above the loss of Manpower, materiel in N. Africa, the diversion of divisions to France in response to the Normandy Invasion) the wasted efforts in things like the V-Weapons, the Bf 163 Komet, pushing the Panther into production too quickly [and field testing it in combat], trying to two more completely new MBTs (the Tiger/King Tiger), and so having three production lines; with concommitant drains on resources, and teething problems, rather than taking a functional design, ramping up production, and working on a single replacement to cope with the T-34. Etc.

  7. Athywren –

    Snrk! Yeah, kitteh, you’ve been a good little boy. Aren’t you proud of yourself for trying to comprehend the female experience? :P
    rofl
    Oh, that’s beautiful. <3

    I know, wasn’t it precious? :D

    Looks like hostilehissyfit does feminism the way he does art – it’s only feminist if he says so and it’s about something he likes, and the words only mean what he wants them to, because context and common usage don’t exist.

  8. D’awww, are we going to be lectured on what atheism is? How cute!

    Now if only the troll will aquaint zirself with the dictionary.

  9. wait atheism means not believing in concepts? That’s awesome! I’ve been tired of paying for these ‘student loans’ but I’ve never SEEN them, just papers that talk about them! They must be fake!

    Whoof thanks, hostiley, you just saved me tens of thousands of dollars~!

  10. @ahostileworld

    Because I am also an atheist. I do not believe in things that are invisible, undetectable, and which have been invented to create fear, alarmism and panic, and which have a religious following of people who appear to think that the mere fact that they believe in it somehow proves its existence.

    Rape culture isn’t some abstract idea, dude. It’s not like just because you can’t touch something it doesn’t exist. Gah. someone be more elegant than me, but my main point is talking about social forces =/= religion. People can talk about socialization. It’s not like boys naturally don’t like to wear pink, it’s that lots don’t (in america) because it’s been socialized as an inferior, girly color. Same with rape culture. People blame the victim for their rape (something you can see) few rapists are actually convicted (something that can be studied/quantified). Paying attention to how people respond when they’re talking about rape isn’t the same as religion. I mean, idk my brains kinda scrambled right now? But that was just a really weird inaccurate comparison.

  11. Wait… Incest? We’re… Family? And we’re… Having sex?

    It’s true, internet sex is EVERYWHERE! Even when you don’t know it, you’re doin’ it!

    LOL now trolly’s trying to do “irritate atheists on site by talking shit about that for a change from talking shit about other stuff”.

    Definitely trolling for the lulz, this one. Sock, maybe?

  12. @inurashii

    wait atheism means not believing in concepts? That’s awesome! I’ve been tired of paying for these ‘student loans’ but I’ve never SEEN them, just papers that talk about them! They must be fake!

    I know. If that’s the case,I should be an atheist XD

  13. inurashii – Wait, but that means that I only have $7 to my name, since all the rest are invisible numbers. Noooo, how am I supposed to buy food today?!

  14. Ah… the smell of necro in the afternoon. I just got (on my blog) a Zimmerman Defender.

    Best part, it was more cogent and interesting than our Prolific Teuton.

  15. Lol. Teuton. uh uh uh [Butthead laugh].

    Sorry. Being an immature French Canadian dude.

  16. At this point, I’m starting to think that Asshole McGee there is actually one of those heuristic AI bots. Zie recognizes questions and responds to partially acknowledge, but not answer them, and has slowly started to simply throw responses back in a garbled but still recognizable form.

    It’s the Hostilitybot 2000, folks! Programmed to cull the internet for factoids and to interact with real humans on the level of a precocious but over tired toddler. Those latest posts aren’t much better than yelling, “Nuh-uh!” and “I know you are but what am I?”

  17. (“Totons”, which sounds close enough to Teuton in the Quebecois vernacular, is basically our word for “Tatas”, i.e. vulgar and somewhat corny reference to breasts, usually in a sexualized manner.)

  18. Student debts have real life effects, because the bank is short on money that it has given to student for them to pay off in installments over the years. Money and market forces have real, detectable effects in the real world. Rape culture, sin and prophecy only manifest themselves in the world as a result of the moral panic, alarmism and fearmongering the proselytisers and prophets whip up.

    Interestingly, the religionists on this website use the same arguments that Christian religionists use elsewhere – ‘I don’t believe in god, never seen him, never detected him’ –
    (And now, imagine the look on the face of someone who is about to deliver what they think is going be the *ultimate* stumper)

    ‘WELL DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MONEY EXISTS?’

    Religionists are nothing else if not similar to each other.

  19. Personally, I’d like to know how the self-described feminist, who apparently out-feminists all of us, can dismiss rape culture as so much cultish fear-mongering. It almost sounds like our self-described feminist hasn’t actually read anything feminism has to say about the rape culture.

    Cause here in the US, the rape culture sure as hell ain’t some abstract delusion designed to strike fear in the heart of women. Here, it’s real. Of course, maybe ahostileworld is like Mrs. Price, raised in an egalitarian paradise, and unable to comprehend the vile level of rape apology and victim blaming that occurs elsewhere.

    Or perhaps ahostileworld is full of shit.

    I’m going with option B.

  20. @pecunium A Zimmerman defender? Jesus, you’re better than me, I’d just be reduced to expletives, then there’d be the smashing of the room, and then I couldn’t have nice things.

    Nope, nope, nope, disingenuous asshats fine, fucking murder apologists argh!

  21. Did you even read what she said? We can see how victims are blamed and how rapists are rarely convicted, or even reported.

    That’s still not atheism…

  22. ‘It almost sounds like our self-described feminist hasn’t actually read anything feminism has to say about the rape culture.’

    Yeah, I never read the whole Bible, either. Hence, I should believe in god.

  23. Student debts have real life effects, because the bank is short on money that it has given to student for them to pay off in installments over the years. Money and market forces have real, detectable effects in the real world. Rape culture, sin and prophecy only manifest themselves in the world as a result of the moral panic, alarmism and fearmongering the proselytisers and prophets whip up.

    Ok, we’re going to need you to explain how you’ve misunderstood rape culture, because the effect that feminists refer to with that word has real, detectable effects in the real world.
    So… go: What do you think rape culture means?

  24. ” Rape culture, sin and prophecy only manifest themselves in the world as a result of the moral panic, alarmism and fearmongering the proselytisers and prophets whip up.”

    Moral panic, alarmism, and fear mongering are literally the same thing.
    People who believe in rape culture are prophets now?

  25. We have enter the “whutlite” zone. Cultural effects on men, totes real. Cultural effects which harm women.. totes made up.

    Lack of knowledge = grounds for belief.

    I think it’s more a case of Prolific Tootin’.

  26. @ahostileworld

    Rape culture, sin and prophecy only manifest themselves in the world as a result of the moral panic, alarmism and fearmongering the proselytisers and prophets whip up.

    Nope. Rape culture is very real when sexual assault victims are face contempt charges for *naming* her attackers, when fat women are told they should be *thankful* their rapists wanted to have sex with them when people ask for a goddamn mercy call for first time sex offenders and over 5 percent of men will *admit* to rape so long as you don’t use the word rape.

    That’s rape culture. That has very real affects on people. You’re in denial if you don’t think it exists.

  27. Yeah, I never read the whole Bible, either. Hence, I should believe in god.

    I know for a fact that you’ve never read about the Cathway gods. I know because I just made them up. Do you have enough information to make any statement about their existence?

  28. Didn’t we have a troll a few weeks ago who thought the same thing of atheism? Atheism means no believe in gods. Religion means believe in supernatural controlling power. Hell, you can even be an atheist and religious or be neither. Ex: Buddhists and deists.

  29. “Ah… the smell of necro in the afternoon. I just got (on my blog) a Zimmerman Defender.”

    ORLY? I was looking for a more interesting troll…

  30. What it *means* ? That question makes no sense whatsoever. You may as well ask me, ‘what do you think is the meaning of the immaculate conception?’

    It doesn’t mean anything to me. It is a construct made of bullshit based on a foundation made of horseshit.

    (A *rape culture*, honestly! Do we live in a dogshit culture, too, because people leave it on the pavement and there are a few arseholes out there coming up with idiotic justifications for it? Is this what this is? A dogshit culture?)

  31. ‘It almost sounds like our self-described feminist hasn’t actually read anything feminism has to say about the rape culture.’

    Yeah, I never read the whole Bible, either. Hence, I should believe in god.”

    So you haven’t, and are talking out your ass about a concept you have no understanding about?

    Yep, definitely option B.

  32. ophelia: Well, to be fair, they were trying to say, “the jury came to a reasonable doubt, and so acquitted him”.

    But they included bullshit about what happened in the period of time when there are no phone records; and put some blame on Martin. Lets just say I wasn’t very accepting of what they had to say.

  33. Because I am also an atheist. I do not believe in things that are invisible, undetectable, and which have been invented to create fear, alarmism and panic, and which have a religious following of people who appear to think that the mere fact that they believe in it somehow proves its existence.

    Oh for fuck’s sake. Just when I think he can’t get any more dim and obtuse, he just digs deeper.

    Pro tip: atheism =/= lack of belief in anything and everything intangible, only lack of belief in a deity. That’s the atheos, from the Greek it means without Gods.

    Everything else you listed is some weird emotional baggage you’ve slapped onto it. Your rhetoric could be used to explain a lack of belief in love or compassion too.

  34. Ok, I smell sock. He’s gotta knock off the religion thing, it just doesn’t work.

    Maybe it’s another fool, but this one already had that whiff.

  35. What it *means* ? That question makes no sense whatsoever. You may as well ask me, ‘what do you think is the meaning of the immaculate conception?’

    It doesn’t mean anything to me. It is a construct made of bullshit based on a foundation made of horseshit.

    (A *rape culture*, honestly! Do we live in a dogshit culture, too, because people leave it on the pavement and there are a few arseholes out there coming up with idiotic justifications for it? Is this what this is? A dogshit culture?)

    So rape culture is wrong because you’re wilfully ignorant? Interesting.
    Rape culture doesn’t exist because you don’t believe in it, and to be aware of what it means and how it is detectable in the world is religious. Right. I’m perfectly willing to believe that you’re an atheist, but you’re clearly not a skeptic.

  36. “What it *means* ? That question makes no sense whatsoever. You may as well ask me, ‘what do you think is the meaning of the immaculate conception?’”

    What do you take the definition to be is a valid question whether you believe it or not. For example, the former refers to Mary having been without sin (I think that’s the definition, pecunium, correct me?)

    Question was what you think people mean when they say “rape culture” and if your mockery off it isn’t pulled out of your ass, then you can answer that.

  37. @ahostileworld

    Please respond to my links and tell me how they are *not* from a rape culture. And:

    (A *rape culture*, honestly! Do we live in a dogshit culture, too, because people leave it on the pavement and there are a few arseholes out there coming up with idiotic justifications for it? Is this what this is? A dogshit culture?)

    Unequal comparison. I’ll take you up on your bad analogy anyway, if we lived in a dog shit culture the same way we live in a rape culture, when people leave dog shit on pavement, people would blame you for stepping on it. They’d ask you why you didn’t see the dog shit, you should have known dog shit is all over the sidewalk, just step around it. There’s nothing we can do to avoid stepping in dog shit, so why make a big deal of it and ruin the day of the person who let their dog shit there and didn’t clean it up. You shouldn’t have left your yard so dirty. You were asking for someone to let their dog shit in it.

    That’s the difference.

  38. Damn… I have to go to the post office, and I smell a sandwich coming on, toasted troll, all melty and full of gooey-goodness.

    So, Our Hero, believes we live in a world which has a “female culture”. One which is toxid to men and boys and families.

    This, he assures is is real. It needs activists like F4J to overthrow it, and restore equality.

    But he denies that the idea of Rape Culture can be real (even though he does attribute effects to it, he just avers they are bad for men).

    Then he goes off about tangible things (“dogshit culture”) and expects us to compare unlike things, and so agree his failures of logic on culture is actually valid.

    (BTW, I see I won my bets about this question)

    why you are so well versed in the ways of Strategy and Tactics that we ought to take your word as dispositive on the effect of indiscriminate bombing of non-military targets; nor your fatuous claim that such bombing was strongly effective in the Allied Victory [placing it above the loss of Manpower, materiel in N. Africa, the diversion of divisions to France in response to the Normandy Invasion) the wasted efforts in things like the V-Weapons, the Bf 163 Komet, pushing the Panther into production too quickly [and field testing it in combat], trying to two more completely new MBTs (the Tiger/King Tiger), and so having three production lines; with concommitant drains on resources, and teething problems, rather than taking a functional design, ramping up production, and working on a single replacement to cope with the T-34. Etc.

  39. Rank, rancid traditionalism, infantilisation and and endless stream of obfuscation, fearmongering and in-group out-group mentality cultivation of the most absurdly incestuous nature.

    Oh man oh man oh man.
    Oh man.
    Guys. Girls. Gents. Gals. Others. Neithers. Uppers! Downers! New game.
    Tumblr Band Name Generator.

    I’ll go first:

    1) Endless Inftantilisation (Punk Rock)
    2) Absurdly Incestous (Noise Rock)
    3) In-Group Traditionalism (Country)
    4) Rancid Mentality (Metal)
    5) Rank Cultivation (Metal)
    6) Endless Obfuscation (Surprisingly? Blues)
    7) Endless Stream of Nature (Medtitative background music)
    8) Fearmongering Obfuscation (Electronic)
    9) Out-Group Mentality (My new Pink Floyd coverband)
    10) Stream of Obfuscation (Themesong writers for movies)
    11) Incestious Traditionalism (Also, Punk Rock)
    12) Absurdly Rank (Military Marching music)
    13) Fearmongering Nature (Elevator Music)
    14) And and the And And’s (Jazz)
    15) Stream Of Traditionalism (60’ies swing)
    16) Most Incestuous Nature (Dubstep)
    17) In-Grou Out-Group, Nature (Experimental Rock)
    18) Nature, In-Group, Rank (Marching Band)
    19) Mentality Cultivation (Glam Rock)
    20) MOST RANK! (Something with a lot of bass)

  40. Argenti: What do you take the definition to be is a valid question whether you believe it or not. For example, the former refers to Mary having been without sin (I think that’s the definition, pecunium, correct me?)

    It’s a bit more narrow than that. It means Mary was conceived without Original Sin. It doesn’t require her to have never sinned; nor does it argue she actually didn’t sin (esp. as there are places in the Synoptic Gospels where it appears she does).

  41. Marie, I am doing it as we speak, but I fear, I am miscommunicating what I mean by ‘detectable’, as your first link, at the very least, does not seem to address it – so let me re-phrase: is there any way, by using the scientific method, of positively establishing the existence of a god or a rape culture?

  42. Pecunium — your troll knows how to logic, and you already logic’ed him. Boo, no chew toy for me!

  43. Argenti: You can do it too. It’s ok.

  44. Pecunium — thanks :)

    And you just proved my point — whether hostility believes it or not, there’s a standard definition.

  45. Oh man oh man oh man.
    Oh man.
    Guys. Girls. Gents. Gals. Others. Neithers. Uppers! Downers! New game.
    Tumblr Band Name Generator.

    I’ll go first:

    1) Endless Inftantilisation (Punk Rock)
    2) Absurdly Incestous (Noise Rock)
    3) In-Group Traditionalism (Country)
    4) Rancid Mentality (Metal)
    5) Rank Cultivation (Metal)
    6) Endless Obfuscation (Surprisingly? Blues)
    7) Endless Stream of Nature (Medtitative background music)
    8) Fearmongering Obfuscation (Electronic)
    9) Out-Group Mentality (My new Pink Floyd coverband)
    10) Stream of Obfuscation (Themesong writers for movies)
    11) Incestious Traditionalism (Also, Punk Rock)
    12) Absurdly Rank (Military Marching music)
    13) Fearmongering Nature (Elevator Music)
    14) And and the And And’s (Jazz)
    15) Stream Of Traditionalism (60′ies swing)
    16) Most Incestuous Nature (Dubstep)
    17) In-Grou Out-Group, Nature (Experimental Rock)
    18) Nature, In-Group, Rank (Marching Band)
    19) Mentality Cultivation (Glam Rock)
    20) MOST RANK! (Something with a lot of bass)

    Best. Game. Ever.

  46. But I have nothing much to add, you covered it!

  47. @ahostileworld

    What kind of study are you looking for? Studies on how many people are raped? Studies on how few rapists actually go to jail? One of those was a link to a study on how many men admit to rape. How many studies, links, and stories do I have to give you before you actually think there is a rape culture? Because I don’t think I ever will. You’re just too willfully ignorant.

  48. That’s the benefit of being the blog-owner. I get to see the new stuff first. (had to approve the comment). We shall see if she tries to defend the position.

  49. Hostility, learn to google. There are studies a plenty.

  50. Oh, whoops. Then you already schooled her.

  51. Yay! Argenti saves me with links to studies! :D (don’t know how to do that google scholar thing).

  52. Rancid Out-Group (punk rock)
    Stream of Mentality (experimental jazz-fusion)
    Absurdly In-Group (boy band)
    Absurdly And And (new wave)
    Nature of Infantilisation (indie folk)

  53. So, studies which show that men who are asked if they have done things which are legally rape are willing to admit to it, and think there is nothing wrong… not evidence.

    Events like Stuebenville, where the rapists are being told they were treated too harshly (because they had their “lives ruined”, and might spend as much as two year in jail for committing a rape), while one of the people who made it possible to prosecute them is being threatened with 10 years in prison for how he he went about getting the attention needed to overcome the cover up… not evidence.

    Maryville, where the victim’s house was burned down, and her family was chased out of town; after the rapist 1: confessed and 2: the prosecutor dismissed the charges because “it was just kids being kids”…. not evidence.

    Nope, no real world effects on women.

  54. Marie — if you search for studies of [thing] it usually gives scholar results at the top and a link for more of ‘em.

  55. For me to accept that there is a rape culture, three criteria would have to be met:

    1.) Rape would have to be common – as common an occurence as, for instance petty theft or jaywalking.

    2.) At the very most, a small minority in society would be of the opinion that rape is bad or that there even is such a thing as rape.

    3.) Obviously, no legislation to outlaw rape would be in existence.

    As long as those criteria aren’t met, we do not live in a rape culture, but in a society where, lamentably, murder, rape, grievous bodily harm, theft and many other crimes happen.

  56. @argenti

    Huh. Did not know that. Thanks for telling me :3

  57. Marie, I am doing it as we speak, but I fear, I am miscommunicating what I mean by ‘detectable’, as your first link, at the very least, does not seem to address it – so let me re-phrase: is there any way, by using the scientific method, of positively establishing the existence of a god or a rape culture?

    Ahem.
    21) Miscommunicating God (Satanist Rock)

    You can establish a criterion for defining rape culture (Let’s peg it as: “Normalizing rape as an event that occurs, not an action carried out by human actors. Minimize the sanctions against rapist. Maximize the sanctions against female victims. Posit that women may deserve rape if they do not live up to certain standards of behaviour).

    22) Detectable Culture (Futurist Punk)

    Test for the social impact of these assumptions, by sociological means. Mass interviews, psychological tests, readings of literature in a time period, analysis of public speeches, step-by-step breakdown of guidelines to improving public awareness of rape in a given period of time (Is advice centered on perpetrator, or on victim? Is advice palliative or condeming?)

    23) Adress,Re-Phrase, Speak (Pop)

    Compile results. Look into results as relating to the socio-economic background of the participations in the studies and the same as applies to the demographics of the mass data. Look for causative, qualitative links that hint at how rape is percieved, worked with, talked about, offered explanations for and given consideration about.

    24) Scientific Existence (Electronica)

    Arrive at the reasonable conclusion that there is general assumption in the world that “rape” is an event that happens to people, not an action perpetrated by human actors. Realize the data available from your mass studies tells you that in most cases where the subject of “rape” comes up, it is dealt with as a thing to avoid, and people remain to blame if they somehow subject themselves to it (Advice takes the form of: “She should have” and “If only you’d”). Understand that the 20 million people in the United States will experience rape, or close analogues to rape, in their lifetime according to some reports, and that yet, rape is treated as a negible crime that one brings on one self by “Wearing clothing that asks for it”.

    25) Positively Estabishing Miscommuncation (Rythm and Blues)

    Cry.
    Cry some more.
    Feel sad about the state of the world.
    Vow to be less of a fool.
    Treat people better.
    Never, ever make the analoge of “Dog shit culture” to “Rape Culture” again.

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Rape+culture#

    26) Miscommunicating Science, Miscommunicating What I Mean, But I Fear Postively Establishing The Existence Of Rape Culture (You, right now, right here. Concievably, you play Classical Music, that most played and repeated strain of musical subgenres, the things everyone has already heard a thousand times before)

  58. @ahostileworld

    1) follow argenti aertheri’s likn

    2) bzzz I’m sorry, you are wrong, rape culture is not exactly what you define it as. Play again tomorrow.

  59. Why hasn’t this shithead been banned yet?

  60. Dogshit Culture (New Wave Punk Fusion)

  61. Is the Dark Lord aware of the level of shit hostility is spewing?

  62. Hah, @Sparky, you didn’t number yours so my list is still in order. “Stream of Mentality” is a good one! Nice.

    @inurashii
    … I was thinking more like a cover band that just made covers of “Who let the dogs out”. Forever.

  63. @ Alice Sanguinaria | October 21, 2013 at 8:02 pm

    Tracy – Yeah it is, also nom. Do you listen to Trent Reznor’s music too?

    I feel mortified everytime I mention I’m a NIN and HTDA fan.

    I am an out and proud NIN fan :) *rushes to google HTDA bc personal musical knowledge has not advanced since about 1998*

    Let’s go back to talking about people we find attractive! That was fun. And productive. Unlike talking to HostilityTroll. Unless… HostilityTroll, do you think Benedict Cumberbatch is attractive? Why or why not? Discuss.

  64. McGee: 1.) Rape would have to be common – as common an occurence as, for instance petty theft or jaywalking.

    Nope.

    Just nope. Look at the Financial Sector. There is a fraud culture there.

    And we have a “Sports culture” even if vast swathes of the populace don’t follow sports.

    Culture isn’t what people “do” per se, it’s how they look at what is done.

    2.) At the very most, a small minority in society would be of the opinion that rape is bad or that there even is such a thing as rape.

    This is nonsensical. If we have a significant minoroty who disbelieve the idea of rape (and we have at least that; given that so many people insist that rape requires at least the threat of violence to be, “real rape”),and who will defend the idea of preventing even the investigation of rape (see Julian Assange).

    3.) Obviously, no legislation to outlaw rape would be in existence.

    Actually, this is 180° from the case. One doesn’t outlaw things which aren’t a problem. If there were no “rape culture” then the need to 1: expand awareness of what rape is, and 2: the need to outlaw it, wouldn’t exist.

    So, you have one point which is constructed to make it impossible to attain the level of proof required, one which is nonsense, and one which is contrary to your thesis.

    It should also be noted, you are the one with the case to prove. You have proposed there is no rape culture. You have to defend that case; the burden of proof is on the person making the affirmative claim (i.e. You affirm rape culture is a myth).

    Go get ‘em Tiger!

  65. Shit… Time’s a wastin’. I have to run to get the yarn in the post before they close the window.

    Have fun while I’m away. If you don’t break the toy before I get back I’ll play with it some more.

  66. For me to accept that there is a rape culture, three criteria would have to be met:

    1.) Rape would have to be common – as common an occurence as, for instance petty theft or jaywalking.

    2.) At the very most, a small minority in society would be of the opinion that rape is bad or that there even is such a thing as rape.

    3.) Obviously, no legislation to outlaw rape would be in existence.

    As long as those criteria aren’t met, we do not live in a rape culture, but in a society where, lamentably, murder, rape, grievous bodily harm, theft and many other crimes happen.

    And in order for you to accept that evolution happens, you’d expect to see a dog birth a cat, right?
    Understanding what you’re arguing against is important, y’know? Even if it does turn out to be absurd, such as with the concept of the existence of a good god who cares whether we believe in it, you cannot begin to approach a rational position on the existence or non-existence of the phenomenon in question unless you have the slightest clue of what it is.

  67. >>>1.) Rape would have to be common – as common an occurence as, for instance petty theft or jaywalking.

    1 in 4 to 1 in 6 women in their lifetime.

    >>>2.) At the very most, a small minority in society would be of the opinion that rape is bad or that there even is such a thing as rape.

    Or maybe, you know, everybody says rape is bad, except they only mean “stranger jumps out of the bushes” rape and redefine 99+% of rapes as “not really ‘rape’ rape”.

    >>>3.) Obviously, no legislation to outlaw rape would be in existence.

    How about on the book legislation accompanied by a generalized attitude by law enforcement officials and judiciaries that rape victims are lying, and a justice system built mostly around filtering out rape cases before they even get to court by discouraging victims from reporting?

  68. (This is why, for the record, you’re a failure at skepticism.)

  69. Aw, ahostileworld just won’t accept that there is a rape culture (despite being confronted with stacks of evidence), therefore it just must not exist!

    Rape would be the only crime in which the victim, not perpetrator, is routinely blamed for the crime, unlike murder and theft. That’s part of the rape culture.

    Your absolute unwillingness to accept it does not make it go away.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 8,500 other followers

%d bloggers like this: