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The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something

John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM – especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

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Posted on October 20, 2013, in a voice for men, are these guys 12 years old?, johntheother, lying liars, misogyny, MRA and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 1,986 Comments.

  1. thenatfantastic

    @Katz

    I did kind of say I didn’t want to get into it, so if it’s OK can we not? As I said, it’s full of caveats, and more based on the principles of the British suffragettes than ‘let’s go smashy smash’. Also it’s 01.30 here and I need to go to bed soon so I don’t want to start something I can’t finish!

  2. thenatfantastic

    Also WRT to your specific scenario, what Argenti said better than me and I just saw :)

  3. hostilityboy:

    I like how many people become decorated generals after the battle – ‘yeah, they should not have bombed Dresden, they should have bombed oil fields (Germany has oil fields?) and oil depots (Germany is Esso?)’.

    Those efforts would have been better spent bombing Ploesti, sure, or the ball bearing plants at Schweinfurt (though when they did that the Germans moved to ring bearings, and kept on keeping on).

    Since the only reason the Allies bombed Dresden was to make Stalin happy by killing a whole bunch of civlians an Open City, and it has been known since… about a week after it happened, the charge of Monday Morning Quarterbacking is facile.

    Then again, you are the one who is pretending to know all the strat/tactical aspects of WW2, so the charge is sort of self-defeating, unless you are now telling us you have had an illustrous career on the General Staff of the Australian Forces.

    Is that what you are trying to say?

    I thought not.

    It was said the civil liberties movement under Martin Luther King was non-violent – UUUUUUUUUUURK – wrong again. MLK himself may not have resorted to violence, but the civil liberties movement as whole did not forego the tactic of causing material damage.

    So which is it, MLK, or the, “civil liberties movement as a whole”?

    Really, you need to keep the goalposts in one place at least long enough to get a response before you move them.

    >There are people who simply don’t have the luxury of a society and government that is willing to listen and act on their behalf. That some people have become too fat and too entitled to realise that there are people besides them who have legitimate concerns, is not our fault.

    So you are totes down with people who commit violence, got it. Anything we need to know which isn’t a repeat of things you’ve said before.

  4. There’s an even moreboring troll necroing an old thread. Mind you, it did bring attention to a gorgeous video there.

  5. thenatfantastic

    Maybe it would be more accurate to say that I don’t think an incident of violence against property (with the caveats) condemns the movement as a whole? That’s probably better.

  6. Trent Reznor, please. Also Mark Ryder *zomg*

  7. Man, this thread is moving fast.

  8. I do not get upset. Apologies if I created the impression. If people consider the portrait, the movie ‘American Pie’ or the Harry Potter series artistic, then more power to them.

    Oh, do kindly get off that high horse of yours before you fall off onto your ass. Seriously, I’ve worked with art that not only looked bad, but it smelled horrible too. If Andy Warhol’s piss is art, anything is. And until you’ve written a seven novel bestseller, you can kindly keep from turning your nose up at those you deem undeserving of the term of “art”.

    As for this guy’s nationality, all the clumsily placed Britishisms and the “broken English” makes me think this is yet again that recurring troll who was “French” who had “broken English”. Who was also I think the sock of a troll who was a math student who knew lots of influential people and was working on some obscure text or something. Who was also the sock of a troll who was supposedly a successful business man getting his MBA.

    I know after a while all trolls start to look the same, but this guy is setting off all my sock radar alerts.

  9. I did kind of say I didn’t want to get into it, so if it’s OK can we not? As I said, it’s full of caveats, and more based on the principles of the British suffragettes than ‘let’s go smashy smash’. Also it’s 01.30 here and I need to go to bed soon so I don’t want to start something I can’t finish!

    You can do whatever you want, but I’m massively unimpressed with anyone who goes “this is what I think, but no fair discussing it!”

    Katz — I can’t speak for Nat, but I’m gonna go ahead and put firebombs and broken windows in separate boxes here. The latter can maybe be acceptable, the former is not, ever.

    But dividing acts by degree is the weakest distinction of all. Then there’s absolutely no clear place to draw the line. And that still leaves breaking the windows of a Planned Parenthood as a fine activity.

    But more importantly, acts of vandalism, regardless of degree, serve the same purpose: They’re meant to intimidate and silence people. That’s all they do. They don’t communicate or win people over, they just strongarm people into obedience. And that’s the sort of cowardly tactic people use because they can’t win people over for real.

  10. As for serving the same purpose, yeah, hence my “maybe”; as for that line though, whether or not anyone could get hurt seems an easy one.

    “As for this guy’s nationality, all the clumsily placed Britishisms and the “broken English” makes me think this is yet again that recurring troll who was “French” who had “broken English”. Who was also I think the sock of a troll who was a math student who knew lots of influential people and was working on some obscure text or something. Who was also the sock of a troll who was supposedly a successful business man getting his MBA.”

    Faux French was Brz, math boy was Diogenes the Naïf, and I’m assuming the last was Pell…afaik they’re three different pains in the ass.

  11. Why is Harry Potter not art? Seriously, what does this guy consider “art”?

  12. thenatfantastic

    Katz, I mentioned it as everyone had kind of jumped on that of all the examples of F4J ‘activism’ I mentioned, and it happens to be the one I find least egregious. That’s not to say I don’t think other people shouldn’t find it so, nor can I not sympathise with their views. I didn’t think it was a massive deal to be honest, but if I’d have thought it might rejuvenate the debate, I wouldn’t have.

    I don’t agree that vandalism only serves to intimidate and silence. An oppressed group spray painting the walls or putting up posters on the walls of a powerful group doesn’t silence them.

    I’d oppose breaking windows of a PP/burning it down as it obviously interferes with the healthcare of innocent people who have nothing to do with what the other group (non-oppressed btw), but smashing the windows of Tory HQ in 2010? I find it hard to give a shit.

  13. @Argenti, oh, seriously, they were all three different people? Wasn’t there a troll who took on like, a biebillion different socks though? Or am I just really remembering my trolls wrong?

    @auggz, I’m pretty sure Harry Potter isn’t art because it’s popular and smarty pants Asshole McGee here likes to turn his nose up at anything popular in order to prove just how smart and original and totally not like those other unwashed masses he is.

  14. Argenti – yeah, if fauxfrench is a sock, he hasn’t been identified yet. I still think he might be Mr 90%. I don’t think the Naif was a sock, and Pell – well, he’s been so many socks, and all in the same pattern, lol.

    auggz – what is art? The Ring Cycle, prolly. Or other special dudely dude stuff.

  15. As for serving the same purpose, yeah, hence my “maybe”; as for that line though, whether or not anyone could get hurt seems an easy one.

    Obviously anything that does or could harm people is right out, but it’s an insufficient criterion because it allows for all kinds of vandalism meant to intimidate people (threatening graffiti, for instance). Plus then firebombing a building when no one is there is back in. as long as nobody gets hurt.

  16. Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III

    @ auggziliary – as a British WWII buff, my guess is he’s a fan of George Formby movies.

  17. ostara – Pell’s done a lot of socking (he always goes into meltdown and gives the game away, though) and Mr 90%, aka Mr Al, has been at it forever.

  18. Sir Bodsorth – George Formby, LOL!

    But none of that modern stuff like the Goons.

  19. thenatfantastic

    a biebillion different socks

    WHATIF Mr 90% were teh biebz? *fantasy lines*

  20. Tracy – Yeah it is, also nom. Do you listen to Trent Reznor’s music too?

    I feel mortified everytime I mention I’m a NIN and HTDA fan. >_>

  21. Matthew Gray Gubler. Not the latest haircut though, he needs to grow that mushroom look out!

    Oh good, I’m not the only one who doesn’t like his haircut. I like it much better when it’s longer.

    Pauley Perette, who is, by my understanding, an absolute sweetheart in real life.

    I <3 Abby.

    Does anyone else watch Elementary with Johnny Lee Miller and Lucy Lui? I’m really liking it.

  22. I think it’s Mr Al I’m remembering then. You’re right, Pell’s too obvious from the get go and would have melted down way sooner. That I definitely remember.

    Asshole McGee would probably flip his shit every time my coworkers and I joke that a particularly precariously balanced garbage can is “modern art”. In our defense, some of them do wind up being kinda cool looking.

  23. thenatfantastic – O_o Biebs as MRA troll?

  24. Pauley Perrette is the actress AVfM has a hate affair with. For some reason. (Reason: She’s a woman.)

  25. auggz – what is art? The Ring Cycle, prolly. Or other special dudely dude stuff.

    Nah, bits of the Ring are alright, but this? This is art:

    *bops*

  26. Oh, is that what biebillion means? ::had no idea::

  27. Oy, I thought you were taking those sleepy brain weasels to bed!

  28. WHATIF Mr 90% were teh biebz? *fantasy lines*

    Mr Al as Justin Beiber? It would probably explain a lot, honestly.

  29. thenatfantastic

    @Alice – It would explain the shortness and the lazy eye (too much time hidden under a fringe)!

    @Cloudiah – I KNEW there was a reason I liked Pauly Perrette apart from the fact that her character is ADORBZ.

  30. Well, ahostileworld, if negative attention is better than no attention at all, I guess the MRM is doing pretty decently.

    Might I suggest some other ways to get negative attention that are less destructive?

    1) MRAs could sit down in public squares and rub themselves with their own poop.
    2) MRAs could dress in bee costumes and march around in circles chanting the lyrics to “I’m Too Sexy.”
    3) MRAs could march around punching newspaper boxes and shouting “misandry!” until eventually someone called the police, or they injure their hands so badly they have to stop.
    4) MRAs could eat a lot of beans and then go out in public. Every time they farted, they could announce that they were “gender warriors” and that this was their revenge for “female hypergamy.”

  31. @kitteh, sorry, it’s just an absurd fake measurement I use, kinda like “gazillion”.

  32. David, you owe me an egg sammich.

  33. ostara, no worries, it’s funny! :)

  34. I hereby take back suggestion #2 because on further reflection that would be awesome.

  35. thenatfantastic

    David, can you confirm that Justin Bieber is MRAL? Don’t worry if you can’t, by rules of Cathy Brennan and the PJI that means it’s totally super-duper true.

  36. Katz — no, firebombing and such is still out because it could harm someone. And yeah, threatening graffiti is still threatening, like I said, it is, at least usually, meant to intimidate. I’m okay with graffiti though, and my stauch support of the first amendment includes that sort of horrible shit, because the other option makes legit activist graffiti just as illegal (as an example, there’ say spot in Pittsburgh were crossing the road safely means a flight of stairs, a bridge over the road, and the stairs back down…someone(s) sprayed a complaint of its lack of handicap accessibility)

    Do I want the threatening sort? No, of course not. But I prefer that option to the non-threatening, and even good, sort being illegal.

    Pittsburgh has a lot of the latter though, from the above example to anti-rape stuff to anti-consumerist stuff. Never saw anything threatening, so I might just be overly hopeful that the good would outweigh the bad (while recognizing that the bad would still exist)

    FTR, this all is specific to graffiti and similar, but posters are legal so that’s moot. Potentially dangerous activities are out, no matter how good I think the cause may be, for the reasons you’ve already mentioned. I can see why someone may resort to breaking stuff, but I don’t think it should be legal, nor do I really find it justifiable.

  37. thenatfantastic – Plus, he has the PERFECT “why I’m an MRA” story! With proof!

    David – Damn you, I can’t focus on my homework as I imagine Elam in a bee costume. :P

  38. I think they already do #4.

    cloudiah: Pauly Perette is having a nasty divorce from Coyote Shivers, who it seems is a bit abusive. That’s why they hate her.

  39. Neuroticbeagle — no, my mother hates it too. To the point we spent some of the last Criminal Minds episode debating if it had grown a bit and if he was letting it return to an acceptable style. Because he looks like a frikken’ mushroom! (And not the way pecunium does!)

  40. Say, if farting in public makes one a gender warrior, does that work for people with irritable bowel syndrome, too?

    /TMI

  41. I’d oppose breaking windows of a PP/burning it down as it obviously interferes with the healthcare of innocent people who have nothing to do with what the other group (non-oppressed btw), but smashing the windows of Tory HQ in 2010? I find it hard to give a shit.

    But you’re still using ideology to define what is or isn’t allowable. Someone who thinks Planned Parenthood is a bunch of Satanic baby-killers would think they very much deserved to have their windows broken. Anyone’s window (or any business or public place, if you’re ruling out homes) could end up broken, because anyone might have a reason that seemed fair to them.

    And of course breaking windows is trying to intimidate someone. There’s no other message you can send by breaking windows except “you’re doing something we don’t like and so we broke your window and if you don’t stop doing it we might break your window again.” (Graffiti and such can send a message if it actually says something meaningful, but not if it’s just random or meaningless like F4J.)

  42. Oh, hey, totally unrelated topic, but I’ve heard MRAs say that Antia Sarkeesian brought her harassment on herself because she “went on 4chan.” As far as I can tell, that refers to this:

    http://archive.foolz.us/v/thread/139813364/

    But if you read the thread the person posting this says explicitly that they’re NOT Sarkeesian. Is that picture even a picture of her?

    I did a google search by image and the only other place I found where the image appeared was this thread:

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.387779-Jimquisition-Anita-Sarkeesian-The-Monster-Gamers-Created?page=10

    Does anyone know any more about this?

  43. Does anyone else watch Elementary with Johnny Lee Miller and Lucy Lui? I’m really liking it.

    Yeessssss Lucy Liuuuuu <3 <3 Benedict Cumberbatch, tru fax.

    I’m not caught up on Elementary, though; I’ve been saving this season for being stuck at my parents’ for a month+ this winter, in addition to Supernatural, which I like but am embarrassed about liking because it’s awful.

  44. lmao, i’m sitting in the airport and people are looking at me funny between David’s suggestions and deste’s LOL JACKASS PRETTY SURE YOUR TROLL DETECTOR’S ONLY GOING OFF CONSTANTLY BECAUSE YOU’RE HOLDING IT.

    Also fuck yes Jason Momoa.

    And a bunch of other people, I have a very loose definition of what I find attractive. I can pretty much find any archetype of any gender attractive. In fact, I’m pretty sure I have a harder time finding people unattractive than I do attractive… which is something I’ve never thought about before.

    And hostilebutthead has yet to answer why the MRM is legitimate when all their main activists are apparently not speaking for them because they’re all awful human beings…

  45. Wow, that ended up really weird; I guess that third heart combined with a greater-than ate half my comment…

    Anyways, was attempting to say that Lucy Liu is on both my celebrities hotties list AND my celebrities it would be awesome to be friends with list, and also that Lucy Liu is entirely superior to Benedict Cumberbatch by my reckoning (and that I prefer Elementary to Sherlock).

  46. Supernatural’s totally a guilty pleasure of mine.

  47. +1 on the Jason Momoa love. Admittedly part of that might be because the first time I saw him he had a shitload of eyeliner on, but still…normally I don’t like dudes that buffed, but for some reason on him at appeals to me.

  48. thenatfantastic

    Anyone’s window (or any business or public place, if you’re ruling out homes) could end up broken, because anyone might have a reason that seemed fair to them.

    Honestly? They’re windows. Look, we disagree on this. We can carry on going around and around until the sun (literally, in my case) comes up, but neither of us will change the other’s mind. Frankly, if MRAs and anti-choicers limited their activities to smashing a few windows I would be jumping for joy.

  49. @dustydeste
    Here is an article about the show’s resident diva that I enjoyed:

    http://www.tvguide.com/News/Elementary-Jonny-Lee-Miller-Lucy-Liu-1071761.aspx

  50. Elementary has some really well-done parts, I think–the handling of Holmes’ addiction, the relationship between Watson and Holmes, the diversity, and I did love their Moriarty–but at the end of the day it just felt like a police procedural to me, whereas Sherlock, although it has flaws, felt like it went beyond that.

    (Lucy Liu and Benedict Cumberbatch are playing different roles, so they don’t seem super comparable to me?)

  51. Honestly? They’re windows.

    Windows which might have people or animals right there when the stones get thrown. I’ve been on the receiving end of shitheads throwing stones at train windows. They’re strengthened glass and it’s still fucking frightening and dangerous.

  52. (Lucy Liu and Benedict Cumberbatch are playing different roles, so they don’t seem super comparable to me?)

    I mean more in general. I don’t find Benedict Cumberbatch very appealing, personally, whereas Lucy Liu is top tier awesomesauce.

    As far as Sherlock goes, I’ll admit that a good part of my dislike for it stems from the fact that I find its fandom at large to be weird and mildly disturbing.

  53. thenatfantastic

    @Kittehs

    That wasn’t the situation we were discussing, we were talking about property damage. I’d obviously oppose it if there were anyone in the building. Or at least I would have hoped that would have been obvious.

  54. “…at the end of the day it just felt like a police procedural to me.”

    I can see that. I just happen to like police procedurals.

  55. Honestly? They’re windows. Look, we disagree on this. We can carry on going around and around until the sun (literally, in my case) comes up, but neither of us will change the other’s mind. Frankly, if MRAs and anti-choicers limited their activities to smashing a few windows I would be jumping for joy.

    Fair enough; between me and “everyone smashes everyone else’s windows if they feel like it,” ne’er the twain shall meet. Actually the “everyone smashes windows” position is more appealing to me than the “you’re allowed to smash windows for the right reason” position, since it’s objective.

  56. I’m thinking more that people get a bit slack about whether their stone-throwing is going to hurt anyone or not – there could be security in the building, how will they know?

    Plus, even property damage alone can be pretty damn traumatising – think how bad it is when a place is burgled, home or business – it’s not just about the theft in those cases. And that’s going to hurt people who are probably not the targets, isn’t it? The corporate heads or policy makers or whoever aren’t the ones being hurt by that sort of thing, it’s the people at the bottom of the pile.

  57. With property destruction, especially arson, I also have concerns about the fact that even if you think there’s nobody inside, there still might be stray animals/homeless people taking shelter/somebody else who you haven’t thought about. Plus why should the fire department people have to risk their lives just because you have a grudge against the people who own/inhabit a building?

  58. *bottom of the pile in that organisation/company, I mean.

  59. thenatfantastic

    I just happen to like police procedurals.

    I’m possibly the only anarchist in the world to like police procedurals. If anyone has any recommendations I’m all ears. Already seen Bones, NCIS, CSI, CSI (Miami) and am currently working my way through Cold Case.

    (Why yes I have read ‘How To Be A Fan Of Problematic Things’, why do you ask?)

  60. Not to mention that in the US at least, it seems there’s a chance the fire department will let animals die in a fire if the insurance isn’t paid. Dunno if they’ve reached the point of letting humans die, but it’s the logical step.

  61. natfantastic: Have you gotten sucked into the Law & Order vortex? There’s the OG mothership, SVU, Criminal Intent, AND a UK version.

  62. thenat – did you watch Foyle’s War, New Tricks, Morse or Lewis? They’re among my favourites.

    If the Dr Blake Mysteries haven’t aired yet (I think the BBC was getting them), give ‘em a go. Set in Ballarat in the late 1950s and pretty damn good.

  63. Kittehs: WUT? This thing about insurance, where did you get that?

  64. If a voice for men is so hateful towards women, why are half of its featured writers and editors female? The question, I suspect, will always remain unanswered by the likes of you sick fucks.

  65. (Blake’s the police surgeon, they’re all murder mysteries. I had no idea Ballarat was so dangerous, though it’s still safer than Midsomer.)

  66. @dustydeste

    in addition to Supernatural, which I like but am embarrassed about liking because it’s awful.

    Ohmigod, finally someone else! :3 (not who likes it, I’m sure there are lots, but I also like it but it’s awful and um…similar thought train. W/e I”ll stop rambling now)

    @hellkell

    Supernatural’s totally a guilty pleasure of mine.

    I really did not know this was so common :p What seasons is everyone on? (ignore this if I’m derailing to much). I just started 8. That’s the most of any tv show I watched, which is kinda sad since it’s not very good.

    @kittehs

    Not to mention that in the US at least, it seems there’s a chance the fire department will let animals die in a fire if the insurance isn’t paid. Dunno if they’ve reached the point of letting humans die, but it’s the logical step.

    Fuuuuccckkk why does the US suck so much.

  67. Whenever libertarians start talking about privatizing public services I always wonder what they plan to do about the fire department. When people call in a fire do they get put on hold while someone checks to see if their insurance coverage is up to date?

  68. @nat
    Elementary, Criminal Minds and Law &Order (original, Criminal Intent and early SVU)

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