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The Daily Beast takes on the Men’s Rights movement — and takes down A Voice for Men’s John Hembling

John Hembling, possibly lying about something

John Hembling, possibly lying about something

The bad publicity bonanza for Men’s Rights activists continues — and it couldn’t happen to a worse group of  people.

Yesterday, the Daily Beast published a long-awaited piece on the Men’s Rights movement, and it’s a doozy. If you’re a regular reader of this site, trust me, you’ll want to read the whole thing, like now. The piece, by R. Tod Kelly, is long — some 6000 words — but worth it.

It’s mostly on the money, but with a few notable flaws.

Here’s what it gets right:

1) It captures the pervasive misogyny of the Men’s Rights movement in general, and of A Voice for Men in particular.

2) In an extended section, it profiles AVFM’s John Hembling, and tears apart some of his most blatant lies — including the now legendary box-cutter incident, in which Hembling claims to have stared down a mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters.

As Kelly notes:

Vancouver police records show that there was indeed an altercation in September of 2012 between Hembling and others seeking to tear down men’s rights posters. However, according to the police, Hembling was arguing with two or three people, not being accosted by a “mob” of any size. When questioned by the authorities, neither Hembling nor witnesses mentioned seeing any weapons. …

Curiously enough, Hembling actually videotaped the events and had his AV4M Radio partner Karen Straughan post it online. The discussion with the police has been conveniently edited out, but the rest of the video clearly matches police records and not Hembling’s story. There are only a few young men taking down Hembling’s posters, and the video shows them choosing to ignore him except when he engages them in conversation. One of the men is seen using a box cutter to take down the flyers, but at no time does he use it as a weapon, raise his voice, or threaten Hembling in any way.

Kelly found some troubling, er, discrepancies in another story told by Hembling. Kelly writes:

According to Hembling, sometime around 1995 he was on his way home at 2:00 am after working a night shift when he came upon [a sexual] assault in progress. He says he used his steel-toed boots as weapons to chase off the perpetrator. When the victim was too distraught to speak with him, Hembling says he contacted the police, waited until they arrived, and then quietly left without speaking to them. He says they later tracked him down at his home, where he gave a statement.

It’s hard to know whether this event actually occurred or not. There is no record—at least, not in the Vancouver police files—of Hembling being a material witness to a rape, and police blotters from that time period do not show a crime that matches Hembling’s description. However, this does not necessarily mean the event did not occur. Vancouver police did not fully computerize their data until 2002, and it is possible the police never reported the incident. Hembling claims the incident took place at a specific hospital, where he says he worked as a contractor for 18 months. The address he gives, however, is for a different hospital in a completely different part of the city. This raises the curious question of whether Hembling forget the name of the hospital he contracted with for 18 months, or whether he forget what part of the city he worked in for that same period of time. The real truth of the matter is anyone’s guess, because Hembling wouldn’t comment to The Beast on that or any other matter.

In other words: Cool story, bro.

3) Another thing the story gets right: it makes clear just how little the Men’s Rights movement does to actually help men — and how in many ways it can actually be terribly damaging to men who need real help. As Kelly writes,

the movement’s radicals might … do … immediate damage to those who most desperately need the MRM to succeed.

“When we talk about recovery from trauma and abuse, there were two things that helped me,” says Chris Anderson, executive director of the male-victim advocacy group Male Survivor and a sexual abuse survivor himself. “The first was realizing that I’m not alone; the second was hearing that recovery was possible.” Anderson is quick to dissociate himself from the men’s rights movement: “In [the MRM] people get that first message, that they’re not alone. I don’t know that they ever get the second message. And when they don’t get that second message, it turns into an endless feedback loop and eventually they say, ‘Oh my God, all of society is f**ked.’”

Indeed, Kelly writes:

It is telling to note that of the professional male-victim advocacy organizations I spoke with, every single one specifically asked that I not allow readers to think they were in any way related to the MRM.

But there are also some things that I think the article gets wrong.

1) I think it gives Men’s Rights activists way too much credit for their supposed good intentions. While there are some MRAs who do seem to be motivated at least in part by a sincere desire to help men, most of the MRAs I’ve encountered in the 3 years of doing this blog have clearly been motivated primarily by anger and hatred of feminists — and women in general. They don’t really seem to give a shit about doing anything to actually improve the lives of men — and the paucity of their accomplishments reflects this. In its relatively brief lifespan, AVFM has raised many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Has it set up any shelters or hotlines or helplines for men? Not a one.

2) It wildly exaggerates the importance of Hembling to the MRM – especially ironic given that Hembling has been more or less AWOL in recent months, producing only a few short videos and one article for AVFM.

3) It paints a picture of The Spearhead’s WF Price as a Men’s Rights “moderate.” Really? While it’s true that Price is not an AVFM-style hothead given to rants about “fucking your shit up,” his views are anything but moderate. This is a guy who thinks higher education is wasted on women, who blames the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, who celebrated one Mothers Day with a vicious transphobic rant, who once used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to argue that “after 25, women are just wasting time.” He published posts on why women’s suffrage is a bad idea. Plus, have you met his commenters?

I was, however, kind of amazed to learn that Price is married … and to a feminist. No, really.

4) The article, while solidly researched, contains some small errors and simplifications that will no doubt give MRAs and others the excuse they need to dismiss the whole thing. Kelly refers to Reddit subreddits as Reddit “threads!” He refers to Matt Forney as an MRA! Oh no!

Still, whatever its flaws, this is an important piece, and one that tells a lot of truth about the Men’s Rights movement. Again — go read it!

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Posted on October 20, 2013, in a voice for men, are these guys 12 years old?, johntheother, lying liars, misogyny, MRA and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 1,986 Comments.

  1. I’d have thought @acheesywotsit would be much more upset about the suffragettes burning down cricket pavilions than them destroying telegraph poles.

  2. thebewilderness

    Lima beans and okra. Rutabagas too.

  3. I said: felling those masts was legitimate. I don’t know the first thing about cricket.

    Interesting observation: accusations of straw feminists in an environment where people exclusively think in clichés: MRAs are like this, men are like that and we are oppressed. Because.

    Meh, it’s the internet. No use trying to discuss things seriously. It’s like pushing diarrhoeia up a mountain with a toothpick.

  4. Maybe that’s why Pitt comes up; there is nothing there to object to.

    It’s the “if there are no obvious flaws that anyone can point out his person must be attractive to everyone” way of framing beauty. Which I’ve always found rather sad, since I tend to look for things that I actively like rather then just going “eh, nothing obviously wrong, so I guess you’ll do”, and the idea of deciding who you want to fuck via consensus seems really weird to me.

    Cumberbatch – nope, and I’m even more confused by his appeal than I am by Brand’s. See why this deciding who you find hot via group consensus thing doesn’t work?

  5. Are you allowed to burn books if they’re art books? How about if they’re kitschy and pro-monarchy? Do you have to remove all the books from a house before burning it down, or is that the big book burning loophole and you’re allowed to burn as many books as you like as long as they’re all in a house?

    We’re asking all these questions because you’re so obviously completely divorced from anything anyone else uses as a base for morality that there’s no point in trying to reason with you because there’s no possible shared ground to start from. So we’re all just satisfying our curiosity.

  6. @ahostileworld

    Meh, it’s the internet. No use trying to discuss things seriously. It’s like pushing diarrhoeia up a mountain with a toothpick.

    Nope. Just because you apparently can’t discuss things on the internet doesn’t mean the same for everyone. Own your shit.

  7. Interesting observation: accusations of straw feminists in an environment where people exclusively think in clichés: MRAs are like this, men are like that and we are oppressed. Because.

    “MRAs are like this” statements are based on repeated observation in various environments. Not clichés.
    “Men are like that” statements are not statements that will be heard from many feminists, I certainly haven’t seen many here (though I have seen a great many coming from MRAs…).
    And “because” is not the extent of the evidentiary support given.
    It kinda seems like you’re not actually bothering to read much of what’s being written… it would explain your inability to directly answer questions.

  8. Cumberbatch – nope, and I’m even more confused by his appeal than I am by Brand’s. See why this deciding who you find hot via group consensus thing doesn’t work?

    Heresy. BURN HER!

  9. Visceral hatred? Brussels sprouts. And cauliflower. All the brassicas but broccoli, really.

  10. ahostileworld: Nice try, but no.

    “White Knight” and “mangina” are actual terms used by MRAs to describe any man who does not agree with their world-view. You are defending the MRM. This is what they spout.

    Now, you said:

    “Well, yeah, of course a few people who hate men and boys by default used it as another welcome justification for their visceral hatred. As if they ever needed one. But you are not everyone. And me and many of my peers started discussing subjects pertaining to child protection and men’s rights in much more detail than we used to.”

    “But you are not everyone.” “You” in that sentence referring back to those visceral man-haters; “you” referring to us here. And no one here has expressed any hatred towards men and boys. Some of us here are men.

    This is the old “feminism equals man-hatred” tripe, and it’s freaking old.

    Tell me one I haven’t heard.

  11. My visceral hatred is reserved for those who blaspheme against the almighty Cumberbatch. ¬_¬

  12. Cassandra:

    It’s something she thinks other women want but can’t have.

    Putting aside for a moment the sheer lulziness of that idea…do people actually think this way? As in, they’re not attracted to people because they’re attracted to them but because they think that by fucking this person they’re getting one over on other people?

    Maybe I’m weird, but I don’t really give a shit whether or not anyone else finds the people who I want to fuck attractive. What’s important is that I do.

    Seconded. (Being weird is fun!) I lol’d at the idea of WTF Price being physically attractive to me. But also, unavailability? Hmm, well, it’s always pleasing when someone says MrSerf is handsome/fanciable/whatever, but it came as a surprise the first time anyone did, and doing a “Ha ha you can’t have him” is certainly not why I’m attracted to him.

  13. Not that it would be okay if it did work, but the art defacing incident has done the exact opposite of what our troll intended: It’s moved the conversation completely away from anything related to custody and instead made it completely about art.

  14. Interesting observation: accusations of straw feminists in an environment where people exclusively think in clichés: MRAs are like this, men are like that and we are oppressed. Because.

    If you had any understanding of why say such things about MRAs, you would find your charge of hypocrisy pretty silly. The MRAs who say terrible things don’t just consist of people who no one cares about; they also consist of influential figures like Paul Elam, Karen Straughan, Warren Farrell, Erin Prizzey, and Angry Harry.

    And yes, women are oppressed. Where are you getting this idea that there are stereotypes against men being thrown around here?

  15. Throw that visceral hate at me, because I don’t get the Cumberbatch thing either.

  16. Obvious troll is obvious, everyone. There’s a reason nothing he says scans.

  17. @ hellkell

    It think it’s because I don’t like craggy faces in general. Daniel Craig does nothing for me either. I like pretty.

  18. Well I like art discussions, so I’m cool with this,

  19. ceebarks –

    off-topic but am I the only one who doesn’t think Brad Pitt is particularly hot?

    Me, me, pick me!

    Granted I’m single-target (stuff TV Tropes, it is real) as far as seeing anyone as hot goes, but he doesn’t do anything for me all. He’s not the sort I could imagine being turned on by.

  20. My visceral hatred is reserved for those who blaspheme against the almighty Cumberbatch. ¬_¬

    Bleagh. He’s too bony, even when he picked up some pounds to play Kaaaaaaaahn, he was too skinny and a bit too pretty for me.

    I watch Sherlock for my Martin Freeman fix!

    Okay, okay, and for the good writing.

  21. Cassandra: Yeah, Craig’s not my thing either, but at least I can see why he’s considered hot. Now, Simon Pegg I think is absolutely adorable.

  22. To be fair, the art conversation is kind of interesting if you ignore any contributions from hostility boy. I like talking about art, I just don’t like talking to obvious trolls who are super obvious.

  23. Pegg (and his working buddy) are good examples of how personality plays into all of this. Physically? Not my type. But his personality does make him kind of appealing, because yep, adorable.

  24. ahostileword: “It’s like pushing diarrhea up a mountain with a toothpick.”

    Stay classy!

  25. Sparky,

    The word “mangina” also shows how degenerate and immature their politics have always been. Who uses words like “mangina” and expects to be taken seriously?

  26. Cassandra… Hellkell… Gillyrosebee… I’m surrounded by heathen monsters!
    AUGH!
    Martin Freeman is pretty awesome too, I’ll grant you that. Actually, if I had to give an attractiveness-based reason for watching Sherlock… Louise Brealey. (Molly) She was in Bleak House, too!
    Oh, and he should never have been Khan. The man’s supposed to be an Indian warlord ffs, not English McBritishface. He should’ve been what’s-his-face – the second-in-command pretty boy with the name that I forget… should’ve foreshadowed Khan’s arrival in film #3 or something… oh wells.

    Anyway, AUGH! And I’m going to go sleep now. G’night all.

  27. Seconding (thirding?) Simon Pegg both for adorable, in both physicality and personality. He sounds like a great guy to hang around with.

    Nighers, Athywren!

  28. I really can’t imagine a more stereotypically English face than Cumberbatch’s. Even if he was cast as a different flavor of Euro I’d have a hard time not spending the whole movie going “but he looks so English”.

  29. Have any of you ever seen Pegg interviewed with Nick Frost (the taller, more heavyset dark haired guy who’s in a lot of his movies)? Those two are hilarious together, they seem like they’d make great drinking buddies.

  30. Well, their latest movie is about a pub crawl…

  31. That’s going on the Netflix list as soon as its available.

  32. Having looked up who the oft-mentioned Cumberbatch is … nope.

    Nor Craig, nor Brand (ugh, way to spoil a great head of hair by having him attached to it).

    If we’re talking classic – Gregory Peck. Handsome, and a pretty damn good human being as well.

    I wonder if hostileknickersinatwist Asshole McGee would be so pleased at the attack on the Queen’s portrait if it’d been the King’s portrait? Is it about monarchy or because it’s a woman who’s head of state? Or is he just another anti-monarchy wanker who knows jack shit about it?

  33. Thought though – given that my response to Pegg is “aw, cuddle” rather than “hey baby, let’s fuck”…that’s misandry, isn’t it? I’m imaginary friendzoning a movie star, there must be a special circle of PUA Hell for women who do that.

  34. I saw “World’s End” in the theater, and it’s hilarious. The soundtrack was like time-travel.

  35. Yup, totes misandry. Even though it shows your’e not being hypergamous.

  36. Their soundtracks are always awesome, which is part of why I think they’d make great drinking buddies. Can you imagine the drunken music geek conversations?

  37. Doesn’t hypergamous mean whatever is most convenient at the time to PUAs, though? As in, well OK so he’s rich and famous but he’s kind of short so obviously hypergamous in this context would mean “wants men who’re tall”.

  38. Actually … if one turned down Mr Alpha Filmstar for a poor sad beta NiceGuyTM, one would still be doing something wrong. Dunno what, but that misandry would show up somehow.

  39. All the words mean what MRAs/PUAs want them to mean at any given moment.

  40. Actually that could be the derail next time we have a troll that needs ignoring, celebrities that are less “hey baby” and more “awesome imaginary friend”.

  41. Can you imagine the drunken music geek conversations?

    They would be EPIC.

  42. It would be an adult version of the “is Goofy a dog?” conversation from Stand By Me.

  43. He can’t be a dog. He drives a car and wears a hat.

  44. Celebrities you’d like as a friend! I like that.

    Plus, it’d be friendzoning them, omg misandry!

    Hmm, I’d like Emma Thompson as a friend, after reading her diary from when she made Sense and Sensibility.

  45. Also, if we’re still talking Persons of Hotness, I’mma linking to the latest pic of a certain hot person outside a millilner’s.

    Hats! Scarves! Jewellery! Tights! Bags!

    Damn I love that shop. :)

  46. I would totally hang out in a bar with Simon Pegg. Who’s arranging that?

  47. He can’t be a dog. He drives a car and wears a hat.

    Which is why, by Disney logic, he is a dog-shaped person, just as Mickey is a mouse-shaped person. Pluto is a dog, as opposed to a dog-shaped person, which is why he can belong to Mickey.

  48. gillyrosebee – That always confised me. Is Goofy related to Pluto in some way? Is there some sort of mutation that allows one to talk?

    AND WHAT ABOUT THE CANNIBALISM?! I mean, there’s at least one scene of Donald Duck eating roasted fowl, and at least one of him hunting fellow ducks. WHAT ABOUT THE CANNIBALISM?!

  49. Pez, cherry flavored pez. That’s easy.

    Also, VtM there’s a line “what are going to do, shoot us all?” and every time my brain completes it with “no Ace, just you”

  50. thenatfantastic

    To catch up with all the shit I started:

    Unlike most people here, I don’t necessarily object to the destruction of property in furtherance of civil rights goals. However that would be with a few caveats – no destruction of homes or art. So, corporations and big business can have a few windows smashed for all I care (hello NSA), as the suffragettes after all their other efforts had been in vain (second caveat, which MRAs miss). There’s more like that but for the sake of brevity it’s not particularly something I’m willing to discuss here, but yes, I have thought about it long and hard and it’s the conclusion I reached, but I know it’s not a universal way to do things and I also know lots of people disagree.

    @ahostileworld

    You didn’t answer my questions. Point out where you addressed F4J planning kidnap or explained how their methods of getting into superhero costumes and sitting on things until they were arrested helped them to convince judges they could provide good care for children? They weren’t denied custody for being men, they were denied custody for being unfit. I crunched the maths elsewhere (will provide link if people want), in the UK, 90% of custodial arrangements are reached amicably. The 10% remaining go to the courts. Of those, only 0.3% result in one parent being unable to see the child. Of the 10%, over 50% get exactly what they’re asking for.

    ———————————-

    Re: hot famous people:

    I don’t fancy anyone hot and famous. I’m one of those irritating people who is almost entirely attracted to personality. So I find a few characters attractive, but when I see the actors in something else – nothing. I don’t even have a ‘type’ or any physical characteristics* I go for, but I would never, ever date someone who’s political values weren’t in tune with mine.

    Oh oh and I know something about one of the names that was being bandied about a couple of pages ago but it would probably be libel if I told you :/

    (*last romantic connections before BoyFantastic – massive bloke who would make the perfect Bear, androgynous/butch woman, hyper-femme woman. BoyFantastic – archetypal skinny vegan.)

  51. Alice, apparently it has to do with wearing pants…

    …WHICH MUST BE WHY MRAS GET SO FREAKED OUT BY WOMEN WANTING TO WEAR PANTS!!!!11!1!!!1!!11!!!eleven!!

    *mind totally blown*

  52. If nat’s gossip matches mine it’s probably about Cumberbatch.

    My favorite example of F4J completely failing at activism was when they decided to get naked in Marks & Spencers.

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/316172/20120319/fathers-4-justice-naked-protest-marks-spencer.htm

    Targeting the advertisers of a site you think is publishing objectionable content actually makes some sense, but the whole “get naked in the flagship store” thing was a misstep. Sure, it draws attention, but not the good kind of attention. They’re just lucky that Brits are a lot more blase about flashing than a lot of other cultures.

  53. Ooh, so glad I didn’t entirely miss the “who’s good looking” thread here… As I am getting older, I am developing all kinds of crushes. Second adolescence? At the moment, it is Christoph Waltz and Peter Dinklage. I’ve always liked the jolie-laide (ugly/pretty) type of man, and strong, sensual women. I am still infatuated with Katherine Moenig (she played “Shane” on the L Word) and Queen Latifah. Almost anyone I like becomes “crushable” to me.

  54. thenatfantastic

    @CassandraSays

    No, not him! It’s not that interesting to be honest. Actor seen with a large quantity of drugs! I’ll let you all scrape your jaws off the floor.

  55. Katherine Moenig! I agree, she’s gorgeous. And Queen Latifah was one of my favorite parts of “Chicago.”

  56. @ nat

    I am so shocked, truly I am.

    (Actor never seen with any drugs at all would be a far more revelatory story.)

  57. Katherine Moenig is so gorgeous.

  58. thenatfantastic

    Haha I know. Apparently the quantity was sports-ball sized, which is fairly impressive, but still not actually news.

    Now it’s your turn to tell your Cumberbatch story (pertaining to what I was saying earlier, I can’t fancy him because Sherlock is SUCH AN EPIC D-BAG. Sorry Athywren).

  59. Nothing specific, just general gossip of the “is kind of a jerk to women” variety. Which is about as surprising as the drugs, really.

  60. Only thing I’ve seen Queen Latifah in was Stranger than Fiction, but I really liked her in that.

  61. Also, I feel like actors who often play scumbags are more likely to attract that kind of gossip, whereas those with a more saintly image are often let off the hook even if they are in fact giant assholes and everyone in the business knows it. The dynamics of how the public relates to and perceives celebrities are weird.

  62. thenatfantastic

    Queen Latifah was just glorious in Chicago. I like Yael Stone playing Lorna Morello in Orange Is The New Black but haven’t seen any other pictures where she gives me the same fuzzies.

  63. Ooh, I like her.

  64. thenatfantastic

    ^What CassandraSays just said. See also famous MoC v white men, hip-hop/pop, etc etc.

  65. thenatfantastic

    Uhm what CassandraSays said about men with certain images getting free passes.

  66. Nat, I’d like to know how you personally justify being destructive based on your ideology. Wouldn’t a pro-lifer be equally morally correct in bombing a Planned Parenthood (when no one was around) by your reasoning? Their ideology would be wrong, but they’d be going about it exactly right.

  67. Matthew Gray Gubler. Not the latest haircut though, he needs to grow that mushroom look out!

    Pauley Perette, who is, by my understanding, an absolute sweetheart in real life.

    And, surprise surprise, the ever lovely and talented Emilie Autumn (you’re stunned, I know)

    Oh, and ten (and the Captain), of course.

  68. hostilityboy:

    What passes for art is in the eye of the beholder. Fine engineering is a form of art.

    Non-responsive. The mitigating factory I mentioned was that the telegraph poles were something which was easily replaced. They were, in fact, an aspect of early mass production in Britain.

    But hey, gotta keep in shape, and making those goalposts dance will do that for you: keeps the old equivicators in top form.

    @ katz, skipping past the pointless ad hominems

    Care to demonstrate your rhetorical chops, and explain what was ad hominem about it?

    Because it seems she was on point.

    Oh… so you think the suffragettes were in the right to destroy telegraph poles. Why didn’t you say so in the first place?

    The British bombers

    This is why German military production was higher in 1945 than it was in 1940. “Detroit” and the Red Army won the warL because The US provided materiel, and food, to the Russians, which made it possible for them to not sue for a separate peace. That and the English Channel, which made it possible for the Allies to maintain an independent base of operations; but without the Japanese it’s possible the German Submarine effort might have been able to bring the British to the point of starvation.

    But thank you for playing, “Debunking Myths About WW2″

  69. Katz — I can’t speak for Nat, but I’m gonna go ahead and put firebombs and broken windows in separate boxes here. The latter can maybe be acceptable, the former is not, ever.

  70. Wow pecunium, the blockquote monster really likes you today! And you get your own spin off too!

    Debunking war myths! With your host…pecunium!!

    (I’m just ignoring the troll at this point, after spending well over an hour trying to get the TB on the network using my parents’ win-box, giving up, and doing it in ten on the mac, I’m fresh out of patience)

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