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A Pickup Artist Asks the Question: “Is It Possible For Women To Be A Healthy Promiscous Woman?”

Women: It's very confusing up in there.

Women: It’s very confusing up in there.

So I’ve been reading a bit more in the Evo Psych literature — some of the alleged classics in the field that most Manospherians seem to have either read or absorbed by osmosis. I’m learning a lot about the dubious “science” underlying many of the Manosphere’s most cherished beliefs.

But I’m a little worried for my own intellectual safety, because I see so much clear evidence around me that reading too much Evo Psych can turn one’s brain to mush.

Consider the example of rmaxgenactivepua, the Evo-Psych-addled gentleman who writes the blog “Rejecting Modern Women: Pickup & Advanced NLP & Charisma Behaviourial Conversational Strategic Technologies.” Specifically, consider the recent post of his that asks the grammatically confusing question: “Is It Possible For Women To Be A Healthy Promiscous [sic] Woman?”

I’m just going to quote the whole damn thing because, yikes:

To definitively answer that question, is a woman biologically designed or hardwired to be promiscous

Are there any biological co-factors which support a womans ability to be promiscous?

A womans vagina is a massive breeding grounding for std’s, making it highly unsuitable & dangerous for sleeping with multiple men

Women have a highly short period of fertility. only 10 years of fertility, less if theyre in bad shape

Women have a limited amount of eggs

Plus women dont have the emotional blocking abilities of men

The real kicker is, women are only capable of having one mans child at a time

If women were meant to be polygamous, they’d be able to carry multiple children of multiple men

Making it ludicrous to assume women are polygamous, it’s laughably ridiculous to assume women are polygamous when theyre own biology isnt even capable of reproducing polygamously

Men on the other hand are designed from the ground up to impregnate millions of women, they reproduce over millions of sperm a day, & can impregnate 100′s of women

In fact one man, men are so efficient at reproducing with hundreds of women, one man could repopulate an entire civilisation if he wanted to, thanks to his production of millions of sperm

One woman on the other hand, couldnt populate her own ass, let alone a shoe box or a cat litter tray …

Proving a woman isnt anywhere near designed to be a slut, FACT

Well, yeah, I guess if you make up a rule that states women can’t have sex for pleasure with multiple partners unless they’re biologically capable of giving birth simultaneously to children sired by all these different partners, then women aren’t designed to be “sluts.”

Then again if you can simply make up your own rules like this, you can prove pretty much anything. If I decide that men can’t be polygamous unless they are simultaneously holding their breath underwater and on fire, I guess I’ve proved that men can’t be sluts either.

FACT!

Oh, and while it’s true that a cis man with healthy sperm could (in theory) repopulate an entire civilization, there are some women who are giving men a run for their money in this department.

19-kids-and-counting

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Posted on October 16, 2013, in citation needed, crackpottery, disgusting women, evo psych fairy tales, girl germs, it's science!, mansplaining, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, PUA, sex, sluts, that's completely wrong and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 140 Comments.

  1. …does her rectum look phallic to anyone else?

    Oh my goodness, it does…

  2. Kitteh — the image at the top of the page, I thought the context was kinda obvious this time, whoops!

    Baileyrenee — oh good, it isn’t just me!

  3. LOL not after we’d moved on to Grimm’s Fairy Tales and just had a link about them (sans pics)!

    But yes, her rectum does look weirdly phallic thankyouforpointingthatout.

  4. Buttercup Q. Skullpants

    By discouraging women from sleeping around, MRAs are ensuring that they’ll not get laid even more often than they already don’t.

    And yes, I also thought the ass in the illustration was, uh, “populated”..,

  5. I’m currently taking a German Fairy Tales class, so I’ve had enough Grimms for at least a few months, thanks :P

    What’s an interesting coincidence is that my prof for that class focuses on evo psych in his research (the proper academic kind, although he still stretches his evidence a bit, IMO). He’s at least 50x more intelligent than Max “DanActive” Pua, though.

  6. A woman having sex with multiple partners and getting pregnant from one of them means there are several men who have a decent chance of being the baby’s father, therefore each possible father has a fairly strong incentive to stick around and protect/nurture his possible offspring. I think that may have been the plot of “Three Men and a Baby”.

    Also, why would anyone want to populate their own ass?

  7. Redcap – Your prof in German fairy tales goes in for evo psych?

    Augggghwarglenooooo

  8. I think that may have been the plot of “Three Men and a Baby”.

    Nah, they knew who the father was (Ted Danson), they just all fell in love with the baby and realised they shouldn’t give her to drug dealers.

  9. “Get bored, wander off, get a cup of coffee with cinnamon vodka.” = WANT!!

    Be careful about that. Last Christmas I drank so much cinnamon vodka that I was literally falling-down drunk, something I hadn’t been since I was like 17 and drank hard liquor for the first time. It was just so tasty and went down so smooth but was still so strong, I totally lost track of how much I was drinking and then by the time I realized it I was so drunk more seemed like a good idea.

    I’m serious, my husband literally had to carry me out of the party we were at which is embarrassing at any age but especially once you hit 30. ;) I’m young enough I could get away with it with minimal ridicule but man, I will never touch cinnamon-flavored vodka again. This is my cautionary tale.

  10. Of course if you’re not a dumbass like I was and actually pay attention to how much you’re pouring into your drink, you’ll probably be fine. ;) I learned that I apparently rely way too much on taste to judge the strength of my drinks.

  11. Buttercup Q. Skullpants, (cool nym!),

    And yes, I also thought the ass in the illustration was, uh, “populated”

    I had the same thought too, when it came through in my e-mail this morning, but props for describing this in such a way which directly relates to the OP! So much wrong there, so little time…

  12. I feel you on the cinnamon vodka, AK. I can’t drink that stuff anymore, either, not after last summer’s brush with alcohol poisoning… Note: Back-to-back grad parties are a poor decision! Especially if there’s yet another one to go to the following evening…

  13. Wait, that’s supposed to be an anatomical cross-section of a woman? I thought is was some kind of football play or something, what with all the random arrows going random places.

    My weakness is rainbow sherbet flavored vodka. Mix equal parts that, orange juice, lemonade and cranberry juice (I found cranberry juice with raspberry, which makes it even better. It tastes just like a bowl of rainbow sherbet, way, way too smooth and yummy.

  14. I died sparky, I died XD

    But back on to the 10 years of fertility…nope, my mother gave birth in her 40s. Is it just me or do these guys have an unusual fascination with teen age girls?

  15. How about Rekorderlig WInter Cider? It’s vanilla and cinnamon flavoured. So yum! But fizzy,so it’s hard to drink too much.

  16. (Sorry, haven’t read the comments yet)

    Wait wait wait…

    Women have a highly short period of fertility. only 10 years of fertility, less if theyre in bad shape

    What? Isn’t half their other argument about male promiscuity about fucking children because they’re “fertile” as soon as they have periods? Even being conservative and generous about the interpretation of that being 15, that would make all women (who are in “good” shape) infertile at 25?

    Does this person even read the bullshit he’s spewing? Because I gotta tell you, late maternal age is currently defined as 40, up from 35 which was the previous “late maternal age” which put women at slightly higher risk of a few issues.

  17. sparky, it’s an image of a vaginal/uterine cross section with a uterus sling for uterine prolapse. The arrows are there to show the ways in which the sling helps to put the uterus, bladder, and rectum back in place.

  18. On review, it might not be, but it certainly looks like a few images I’ve seen of it.

  19. Anonymouslazycat

    Aha!
    I think I just discovered the “logic” behind the “only ten years of fertility” statement. See, according to many manosphere types, women become horrendously ugly at a relatively young age. Therefore, while they might technically be fertile, no man will actually have sex with them. Men, on the other hand, stay fabulously handsome all their lives.

    It’s a terrible, illogical sort of logic, but it’s as good a guess as any.

    P.S. Thanks SittieKitty. I was pretty confused about that diagram at the top of the post.

  20. Buttercup Q. Skullpants

    Xanthe – thanks!

    Rejecting Modern Women: Pickup & Advanced NLP & Charisma Behavioral Conversational Strategic Technologies

    That’s the name of his blog? It sounds like some dull scientific treatise from an anthropology journal that nobody reads. Or a pamphlet you’d find at the laundromat, next to the pile of unread Watchtowers.

    Alternate suggestion: “Cranial Adiposity As A Mating Strategy”.

  21. Buttercup Q. Skullpants

    That blockquote went well.

  22. Ten years of fertility? MRA, do you even science?

    … don’t answer that.

  23. One woman on the other hand, couldnt populate her own ass, let alone a shoe box or a cat litter tray …

    Wait, what? This whole sentence makes no sense.

  24. Science is misandry!

    Buttercup Q. Skullpants — I see what you did there!

  25. Argenti – unless is EvoPsy! Then it’s sacrosanct!

  26. kittehserf: It’s his main approach to his research, not the main approach of the course. It’s present in the lectures, but not like “evolution therefore IT WILL ALWAYS BE THIS WAY”, rather “this is a possible reading for this story and of course this doesn’t mean that we should continue to act this way”. He also touches on feminist critiques, cultural context, authorial bias, etc, etc.

  27. I’d still like to think this guy is inadvertently promoting 2 male 1 female threesomes. Heteropaternal superfecundation for every mom! When one father at a time just isn’t enough.

  28. LadySunami – and better yet, the blokes in the threesomes still wouldn’t be MRA/PUAs.

    … If anyone’s looking for a spare bloke for some heteropaternal superfecundation, you can have whoever was allocated to me, he’ll be going to waste otherwise. ;)

  29. If all the promiscuous women merge to form SlutVoltron then sure?

    (What is it with MRAs and grammar? Is it because a lot of high school English teachers are women and paying attention in class would have been against their principles?)

  30. If all the promiscuous women merge to form SlutVoltron then sure?

    OW my sinuses exploded snorting at that

    ::gingerly pats nose to see if it’s intact::

  31. Hmm, so, I got my period at 9, and the average age at which women stop menstruating is what, late 40s? So by the time I’m done I’ll have technically been fertile for about 40 years.

    Contraception is a wonderful thing, isn’t it?

  32. A few points really bugged me:

    1) a woman with multiple male partners is polyandrous

    2) from a biological perspective female creatures are supposed to be able to pick as many (or few) “high status” men to mate with as they please, there is nothing in human biology that means that we couldn’t be using the survival of the fittest sperm approach that nearly every other species does anyway. It’s a race to the fallopian tube and the fastest and healthiest sperm wins because human ova don’t let just any sperm in, there is a biological barrier around the ovum meaning that lets only one sperm in (more than one sperm entering jeopardizes the survival of the zygote)

    3) behaviourally having multiple possible fathers decreases the likelihood of a male killing her offspring

    4) that anatomical diagram is completely missing the clitoris. It’s missing a whole damn organ! That’s not Mr Futrelle’s fault though, it’s rampant misogyny in the scientific community

  33. Limited amount of fertility, limited egg supply…hmmm sound like an argument for having a LOT of sex if ever I heard one.

  34. Clitoris is there Emmy. It’s above the urethra. I’m actually kind of surprised it’s there because it often isn’t.

  35. Buttercup Q. Skullpants

    I love the phrase “highly short”. It’s so oxymoronic.

    Since I had kids at 44, that must mean my fertility started at 34. Yes, gals: the late 30s is a special time of life. You’ll start to notice boys (and/or other girls), grow underarm hair, and become moody. These years can be turbulent and awkward, what with juggling career, household, family, responsibilities, and zits. You’re no longer a carefree 30 year old. You’re growing up. You may have to start wearing antiperspirant when testifying in front of Congress. At the hardware store, or doing your taxes, you may worry that everyone is looking at you. These feelings are normal.

  36. Aw, Buttercup, I’m about to turn 35 and wish I had a cool big sister like you to advise me at this turbulent time! I’m also finding myself arguing with my mother all the time; she, like, totally wants me to do stuff I don’t wanna* and YOU’RE SO UNFAIR, MUM!

    My fuse is obviously as highly short as my fertility.

    *she’s brain damaged so this actually happens

  37. 10 years of fertility, LOL! WUT.

    When my uncle completed our family’s genealogy on his mother’s side, there were several things I noticed right away. The first couple who arrived in America from Switzerland in the 1840’s were 20 (wife) and over 40 (husband). They had 12 children, all but one of whom lived past their 80’s. While she was pregnant with her last child, her oldest daughter was pregnant with her first child. She spent 20 years having babies. And this was 150 years ago.

    Most of all, I’m envious of those genes. It was actually my grandmother’s family that brought serious heart disease into our family. While those Swiss men 150 years ago lived until 85-90, men in my family now die in their 40’s and 50’s. And you can see exactly when it happens in the genealogy. It’s messed up!

  38. Oh glob oh glob more creepy (and ill informed) obession with ‘fertility’ .
    I agree with whoever said they have women confused with broodmares. Or any kind of livestock.

    Actually, I think some of them may have read something about guinea pigs and become confused by that too. After around 10 month’s a female guineapig’s pelvis will stiffen, making it very difficult and dangerous, frequently fatal, to give birth if the female has not previously had a litter. Therefore you should breed your female guineas as early as possible.
    Of course, these guys don’t actually want to have children with all of these hot,fertile teenage girls they want to shag, so I’m not sure why they are so hung up on whether their partners are all fertile or not. I feel kind of sorry for them, as they seem to think that sex just for pleasure is on some level not natural, and they are so hung up on “natural = good (except when it comes to ‘disposable males’ or female choice or polyandry or aging or body hair or altruism or a roughly 50/50 m-f ratio) and it kind of ruins relations with other human beings…which can be quite enjoyable if you don’t assume everyone is beneath you and/or out to get you. (i feel more sorry for the people they deal with ofc).

    Finally I was thinking about the sex ratio problem – if men are supposed to be polygamous and women monogamous (I assume they mean one guy for whole life rather than serial monogamy because that = riding the cock carousel if it is a woman doing it) then for that to work you would need to have a large pool of INCEL MEN! so the alpha dudes could have their harems of monogamous women. It would also mean that if a woman was expelled from the harem she would remain celibate despite the large pool of INCEL! men, and possible wasted reproductive years depending on when she left alpha dude. This seems neither likely, nor ‘natural’, nor acheivable, and also exactly the kind of system they rail against… (apart from the ladies not riding the cock carousel I suppose) 0_o No wonder they are all so frothy and angry. Nature is actually misandry!

  39. Was anyone else annoyed that he used “polygamous” when he meant to imply “polyandrous”? Because a woman can’t reproduce with another woman anyway, so what difference would it be if a woman were polygamous?

    Maybe I’m being a stickler for grammar, but if you’re trying to sound all “sciencey” then the fool should have at least got that word right. It was a central point to his thesis, after all.

  40. re the “glans is designed to evacuate semen”. Seems it’s not so. I was reading a paper about six months ago on the subject. Someone did some actual tests (models were designed for the computer, and some physical models were made/tested).

    Turns out the flare isn’t enough to create the needed “seal’ esp with the lack of flare on the bottom (the fluid dynamics are such that any fluid pulled back, tends to run around to the bottom and pretty much remain in place).

    And (relevant to the evpsychers), a penis with the foreskin intact does this even less well.

    There is evidence of competition, but it’s in the sperm themselves (some are designed to “hang back” and block the way, others are more like antibodies, and sperm they don’t recognise they entangle themselves with to slow them down, etc.). But even that is, relative to other, really competitive breeding strategies, not all that strong.

    It seems that Homo sapiens is a moderately promiscuous species, with a tendency to variably strong pair-bonding.

  41. And yeah… what’s the the “polygamy”. Polyandry, or polyamory (which is a useful, if somewhat ugly word). But even if he’d used the word, he didn’t mean it. Polyandry is a formal set up; i.e. it, like polygamy, is a socially accepted way of organising a relationship.

    He didn’t mean that. He meant, “slutting it up, and fucking whomever she wants, ’cause she feels like it,” as if that were a bad thing.

  42. thenatfantastic

    If women were meant to be polygamous, they’d be able to carry multiple children of multiple men

    Making it ludicrous to assume women are polygamous, it’s laughably ridiculous to assume women are polygamous when theyre own biology isnt even capable of reproducing polygamously

    If humans were meant to swim, they’d be able to breathe underwater.

    Making it ludicrous to assume that humans can swim, it’s laughably ridiculous to assume humans are swimmers when their own biology isn’t even capable of breathing underwater.

  43. I had some promiscous last night. Bf made it. We find it’s a lot tastier if you cook it in chicken stock instead of water.

    These error-filled evo-psych odes to wild-ass guessing always make me laugh, because even if the conclusions they draw were right (lol) it doesn’t actually tell us anything about how modern human beings should behave. We aren’t “meant” to do anything as a result of our biology. Biology doesn’t have intention. If there really was any evidence indicating that a 1 sperm-producer, multiple ovum-carrier mating style for humans has been historically the most effective (in terms of number of offspring who reach adulthood), I would just shrug and keep having the sex I want to have. Who the fuck cares what other humans might have done?

  44. David, it is not true that a man can repopulate civilization even in theory, simply because making women pregnant is not easy. Also there has to be some biological diversity.

  45. Viscaria, you can’t do that! If you dismiss all the biology and evopsych stuff they have no argument whatsoever except that they hate women and want to control them! Therefore it’s total misandry to dismiss their bullshit as bullshit.

  46. If evolution drives women to produce offspring meaning “get knocked up,” logically we would be having sex with multiple men over the short span of time where we might be fertile. Since we don’t know when we’re fertile, and we can’t tell by looking at a dude if he is both fertile and compatible with our bodies, the logical response for a woman seeking to get pregnant is to have sex with multiple men within the three or so weeks between periods, in the hope that one of them will be fertile, compatible and ejaculate at the right time to cause pregnancy.

    And biologically women are mostly capable of having sex much more frequently than men (lie back and think of England, all we have to do is receive, most women have no refractory period between orgasms either, although the role of orgasms in causing pregnancy is unknown if it even exists at all).

    There I just made more sense and was more scientifically accurate than anything this douchecanoe has ever said.

    (I apologize for both the heterocentrism and cissexism inherent in this argument.)

  47. I read ‘heterocentrism’ and ‘heliocentrism’ then because I used it in the other thread. That was confusing.

  48. @thenat
    You mean the sun doesn’t revolve around heterosexuality?

  49. SittieKitty: Ah, yes, a diagram of a uterine sling makes about the most sense!

  50. Argenti Aertheri

    “although the role of orgasms in causing pregnancy is unknown if it even exists at all”

    Pulling this from my ass, but wouldn’t it make sense that her enjoying it makes her more likely to do it again, therefore increasing the odds of pregnancy? Or maybe it’s just a curious side effect of embryos having undifferentiated genitals.

  51. Women have a highly short period of fertility. only 10 years of fertility, less if theyre in bad shape

    I’ve been fertile for 10 years already and I’m only 23……..My mom hit menopause in her 50s……so…….ummm…..Is he saying my mom started getting her period in her 40s?

  52. re polygamous

    As far as I’ve understood, polygamous can mean both polygynous and polyandrous. So if polyandrous is a subset of polygamous, it will still be technically correct.

  53. “Polygamy” is actually correct(ish) – it refers to a marriage with more than two people involved. “Polyandry” specifically involves multiple men, and “polygyny” multiple women. In the real world polygamy is usually one man, several women, because yay, patriarchy, but the term itself is non-specific. Although he doesn’t appear to actually be talking about any form of marriage, so “polygamy” would still be inaccurate.

  54. Please tell me I’m not still going to have to worry about contraception in my 50s. That particular worry can’t go away soon enough as far as I’m concerned.

  55. The idiot decided to blame dyslexia on promiscuous women in the comments… As someone with dyslexia, I’m rather peeved. Let’s see if he actually responds to me calling him out on his bullshit.

    I don’t know how to block quote, so regular quotes:

    “Sleeping around leads to dyslexia and autism? You’re kidding, right? Find me some legitimate research that indicates such a connection.

    In my family’s case, dyslexia quite clearly runs in the family, at least through my maternal grandfather. My grandfather, mother, one aunt, two uncles, at least one cousin and I are all dyslexic. (I would estimate about 50% of my mothers family. The severity differs, and not every family member has been tested for learning difficulties, so it’s hard to be exact.)

    As someone with dyslexia I have read a lot about the subject. I can assure you, I have NEVER come across any research that indicates female promiscuity is at all related to dyslexia.

    As for the other hazards you list, they are universal. Last I checked men are just as guilty of spreading HIV and other STIs as women are. (More so if you consider the spread of HIV amongst gay men. Lesbian women are relatively HIV free oddly enough.) It should be obvious to everyone that, for the very reasons you list, NEITHER men NOR women should be promiscuous.”

    Hopefully this does not offend the polyamorous. I am referring in part to his arguments against promiscuity (STIs and AIDs! Oh my!) and in part to my own opinion that monogamy (or at least serial manogomy) is the best way to go about things. Then again, I’m demisexual and a bit germophobic so I know I’m more then a little biased.

  56. Wait, is he suggesting that having multiple sexual partners causes dyslexia in someone who didn’t previously have it, or that the children of women who have multiple sexual partners somehow develop dyslexia as a result.

    Both ideas are nonsense, obviously, I’m just curious which specific kind of nonsense it is.

  57. @Argenti – indeed. However a woman does not have to have an orgasm to conceive. (I’m being ridiculously reductive about this whole thing, clearly.)

  58. It causes their children to be dyslexic and/or autistic. Not sure how this supposedly happens.

  59. You know the old saying that too much masturbation would make people go blind? Maybe it’s like that, but with only certain letters when you read, so…

    Eh, fuck it, I can’t get this to make any sense.

  60. Maybe it’s “too much evopsych PUA wank makes you an idiot”?

  61. Not to flog a dead horse, but seeing as my wife gave birth to our oldest child 22 years ago and our youngest child last week, I’m feeling fairly secure in calling bullshit on the “10 years of fertility” thing.

  62. Congratulations, rodafowa!

  63. Cassandrasays
    I hope you go into menopause before your 50s…….

  64. melody – perimenopause often starts in the late 40s, but menopause itself is a thing of the 50s, very generally speaking. I’m 50 and perimenopause only started in the last year. (And does anyone tell you it’s like goddamn puberty all over again, including zits? Not they do not, bastards!)

  65. Evolution favors sluts in general, both of the male and female variety.

    Either way, evo-psych doesn’t really work to explain human behavior because we don’t know enough about early human behavior. Comparing to other animals often doesn’t make sense. Our closest living relatives are total nymphos. This may or may not be a good indicator for several reasons. (Comparisons to modern humans on the other hand…. lol)

    It is completely likely that everyone was a huge slut, and there is actually a lot of evidence to back it up.
    Might help to explain the huge amount of differences in individual preferences. Oh, and it’s likely that early humans didn’t make the connection with babies and sex in the first place. There are still existing cultures where the finer points of baby making are lost or irrelevant to them.

    This guy also does not seem to realize that
    1. Females who are polygamous might not always be certain whose baby it is, but so what? In terms of evolution all that matters is that reproduction happened. Whether or not the female has one or more mates at a time or in succession amount to nothing.
    2. There can be several reproductive strategies within a species so demonizing human monogamy OR polygamy is equally senseless.
    3. Having a lot of kids will not, evolutionarily speaking, amount to anything either. The only thing that matters if they survive to adulthood and reproduce themselves.
    4. By looking at the female reproductive cycle, it is easy and completely reasonable to come to the conclusion that women who are slutty are likelier to get pregnant. Whether this is with a single committed partner or several, or a non-committed partner(s) is irrelevant.

    All that matters is if the individual is capable of raising the offspring – depending on conditions this may or may not call for aid from others. The mother-.father-kids family model is relatively recent, so I don’t assume that it’s the father (or even the mother) who is forced to do baby rearing. Altruism has likely always been a factor in human behavior and evolution.

    I could talk about this shit all day. Ehmahgerd, evolushionareh shychologerh!

  66. All this makes me wonder why I bothered to have a vasectomy when my wife turned forty.

    Going from MRA logic, she’d have ceased to be fertile some fifteen years earlier, and we’ll just quietly forget about how she managed to have kids at 37 and 39 because evidence schmevidence.

  67. Thanks very much, katz! Mum and baby both doing well, dad still weeping like a schoolboy at the slightest provocation. :D

  68. LOL! Holy crap. It’s amazing what we find on the internet. hahaha

    It takes all kinds. What a weird find.

    One man could populate an entire civilization to do what, inbreed? ha

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