The Freak-Out Artist: Julian from Real Social Dynamics takes gaslighting to a new level
I’ve read and watched and listened to a lot of creepy pickup artist crap over the past few years while writing this blog, but in some ways this little video, from PUA “coach” Julian of Real Social Dynamics, one of the bigger and better known of the commercial “game” marketers, may well be the creepiest. Essentially, Julian provides tips to young men on how to “get” the girl of their dreams by temporarily driving her out of her mind.
No, really: he recommends that men overwhelm their female targets with confusing and contradictory stimuli to throw them so off-balance they’ll reflexively turn to their mental tormenters for support (and, maybe later, reward them with sex). This isn’t pick-up artistry so much as freak-out artistry.
The one thing about this video that is vaguely reassuring is that Julian’s examples of his technique in action are so crude and hamhanded I seriously doubt they’d actually work on anyone “in field,” as the PUAs like to say. What’s not so reassuring is that anyone would actually come up with something this predatory and perverse in the first place. Also, you know that at least a few of the video’s 32,000 viewers have actually tried out this technique on annoyed and bewildered women around the world. The world doesn’t really need any new ways for dudes to be assholes in clubs.
Posted on September 30, 2013, in bad boys, crackpottery, creepy, douchebaggery, emotional abuse, gaslighting, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, PUA and tagged emotional abuse, gaslighting, misogyny, pick-up artists, pickup artists, PUA. Bookmark the permalink. 503 Comments.
Either way, what gillyrosebee said.
Also, not every socially awkward person is incapable of getting dates and/or sex without resorting to manipulation or coercion. Some of us even manage to be quite charming apparently, even if it is entirely by accident.
Look, I’m awkward as fuck (or I was in the past) so I know where this is coming from, and it’s totally legit to say that we shouldn’t conflate awkwardness with assholedom (which we generally don’t), but seriously, don’t group it under the label of an actual form of discrimination. Nobody says that socially awkward people shouldn’t be allowed out in public or calls for their mass sterilization. It’s like Shakesville’s thing about Brave being racist against Scottish people and redheads. Even if it’s sort of onto something, it’s just not the same.
I’m not going to watch skeevyboy’s video; the comments are clear enough.
But here’s something he (and you, SocialKenny, you little dipshit) might think of: if some dude comes up babbling nonsense or behaving weirdly or changing from one minute to another, I’m not going to be all “wtf” and eventually be undermined into getting into his bed.
I’m going to be thinking he’s exactly like every other person I’ve seen around who’s fried their brain on drugs, or is an alcoholic, or is simply off their face for whatever reason, on tp of being a piece of shit personality-wise.
I see people in that state quite often on public transport, and you know what? They’re not enticing. Pitiable, maybe, or frightening when they’re aggressive, or just fucking annoying when they won’t leave someone alone. But messing with the brain of the person they’re pestering? Nope.
@Good:
The site “lesbianpickupartist.com” has *got* to be a fake. It looks like a Cosmopolitan-themed website (i.e. the kind of thing that straight men think straight women enjoy, not anything the lesbians I know would like), and the testimonial from the girl who picks up a woman at Costa (the UK equivalent of Starbucks, only better) is complete BS. I doubt very much that a gay person, man or woman, can just hit on someone randomly outside of gay/lesbian bars.
@Katz
I didn’t mean to put social awkwardness in the same level as mental illness, I know it is not and I apologize if that misunderstanding somehow irritated you.
“it’s totally legit to say that we shouldn’t conflate awkwardness with assholedom (which we generally don’t)”
Sometimes commenters here do, I wouldn’t have said a thing about it if it wasn’t the case. That’s why I mentioned ableism, because this site is so cool about that and yet a problem like awkwardness seems to be -hopefully was- okay to make fun of.
Back to the OT, the Hollywood sign is on a steep slope, and pretty far from accessable roads:
So yeah, that angle’s impossible. And while there are hiking trails you can use to get up behind it, or on the same level as it, there is no flat place where this guy could be standing while being in front of it, especially not at such a short distance.
The aim of this technique is to mentally incapacitate women, right? Alright, so, imagining that this actually works as advertised and doesn’t give women the impression that you’re actually having a mental breakdown right in front of them, what you’re basically aiming for is rape.
That’s like calling a skilled salesman who can get someone to buy something they don’t need a thief. This is not Patty Hearst level brainwashing. You are taking the terminology a bit too literally. Stimulating a woman’s mind in a way that makes her more interested in you is not the same as mentally incapacitating her.
Dude, did you watch the video? That isn’t “stimulating [her] mind”, stimulating conversation we’ve got no problem with (you do not provide such btw). This is attempting to confuse her until she does what you want because she’s looking for something to latch onto into the chaos and that’ll be you (I am paraphrasing the damned video)…that’s manipulation, and wrong, you little shit.
Good: He’s not talking about “stimulating a woman’s mind,” he’s talking about “short-circuiting” a woman’s brain. Throwing a woman so off balance that she clings to the dude who is throwing her off balance as a stable point of reference (which makes no sense, a person is more likely to slowly edge away if someone is putting them off balance). That’s skeevy. And, yeah, of what a person is trying to “sell” is sex to another person who does not want to have sex with them, that is super skeevy.
Yep, what Argenti said.
@Good: Sex is not a transaction, BZZT try again.
Good can’t tell the difference between an argument and an insult. Of course he can’t tell the difference between conversation and manipulation.
What’s really weird to me is that I have actually considered using a variation on this technique… to startle people I want to make a quick escape from. Just suddenly bellow complete nonsense and then bolt while they try and figure out what the fuck I’m on about.
Somehow, I doubt it’d be more effective as a sexytime technique.
RE: Binjabreel
Also, seriously, this is hands down one of the least ableist websites I’ve ever seen.
That doesn’t make this site above criticism. And I’m with arubakeru on this one; I would hope that even the world’s most socially awkward person wouldn’t turn to assholery.
RE: Good
I AM a skilled salesman. My recent convention take is proof of that. And yet somehow, I sell my work NOT by trying to overwhelm people with conflicting babbleroar. I sell by being friendly, approachable, and giving quick descriptions of my work, and then letting folks go if they’re not interested.
(ALSO ZOMG GUYS MY TRIP STARTS IN TWO DAYS I AM SO EXCITED)
Nobody can short circuit anyone’s brain with a freaking conversation. He is using hyperbole. This is a great example of women not taking responsibility for their own behavior. I guess now, we should prosecute based on him short-circuiting her brain.
Question. How many women on this site could have their brains short-circuited by a PUA? Argenti Aertheri is one of the dumbest idiots on the face of the Earth. Think before you respond. You seem gullible enough to fall for a PUA.
@Good: Sex is not a transaction, BZZT try again.
Now there is some serious naivety.
ō.Ó? That’s special Good, very special. That’d be a (very poor) attempt at begging though, not this short curculio shit he’s talking about. I repeat — did you watch the damned video?
LBT — me too! We’re doing this Friday right?
Good, the irony of you calling someone else stupid is almost too ironic to comment on.
Almost.
Also, you don’t get to call people “dumb.” That’s ableist, you disgusting little turd.
Good, you think before you respond. Of course it’s not possible to short circuit a person’s brain based on a conversation. That is not the point; the point is Julian actually thinks he can do that (because ladybrains are so mushy and react emotionally and not logically!) and also thinks that is just perfectly fine to manipulate people in that way. That is skeevy.
And no, sex is not a transaction.
*short circuiting
Gods do I hate iOS 7’s autocorrect.
Good, the irony of you calling someone else stupid is almost too ironic to comment on.
Almost.
Also, you don’t get to call people “dumb.” That’s ableist, you disgusting little turd.
It’s funny that you mentioned both “dumb” and “stupid” as both meaning the same thing, then make the “ableist” accusation. Dummy.
Good, you’re an asshole, and clearly a little low on that whole “understanding how words and arguments work” skill, but I’m sure someone has explained to you in the past that using words that are designated as pejorative due to their association with disability is what we nonassholes like to call “a shit thing to do.” In other works, “more evidence that you’re a little shithead,” not that we needed more of that.
In other news, learn to blockquote if you’re going to be quoting.
The horrible thing is, this is a thing that actually happens. Not people using it as a pick-up technique, because I hope that is too far beyond awful for anyone to actually do, but I am very familiar with the “short-circuiting.” I have problems processing social situations, and when I’m in a large group of people and the conversation is moving very fast, it’s easy for me to lose touch with what is going on and panic. (It can happen in smaller groups, but then it’s easier for me to stop and ask what is going on, what are we talking about now? and people are more likely to listen.)
That kind of disconnection from the world around you is very real- and very terrifying. That someone would try to use that mental state to manipulate another person into bed… screw this world.
Aw, fuck. My brain. It burns. I think a cluster of neurons just detonated, reading that.
Nevermind your imbecilic assumption about “hyperbole” from a man who directly, and I quote, says: “And this will short circuit their brain, like a jolt, like a fucking jolt, I’ve seen it happen, like I’m in the club and… overwhelm their logical centers… confuse them… look at your for comfort… read that book about the superior man, women are always looking for support and if you create chaos you can be that support from the chaos you create…”, yes, let’s just ignore that.
It’s not about whether or whether not it’s fucking possible. It’s about what someone is claiming is the percieved, possible, probable result of taking the action he is recommending. You can sit there, high and mighty, and proclaim: “Hah! Only the stupid would fall for this!” and that gets you off well and clear, but what about the rest of the world and the followers who will go out, tonight, and repeat this very same thing to confuse and befuddle another group of people?
Secondly, “How many women on this site could have their brains short-circuited by a PUA?” makes no sense as a question if you already, in your first sentence, write that “Nobody can short cirtcuit anyone’s brain with a freaking conversation”. You are literally taking the time to ask a question you have answered yourself because you want us to give you the answer you have already given, and if we deviate in any way from your stance, you get to call us stupid.
What the fuck. WHY?!
Moving on from that to then head straight to “Argenti Aertheri is one of the dumbest idiots on the face of the Earth. Think before you respond” is such an strange move. It doesn’t even relate. How is Argenti Aertheri one of the dumbest idiots? By what sample? By which measurement? Compared to what? In relation to what? Flat worms? Third graders? You? Me? If you’re going to insult someone in such a specifically silly manner, coming as it does as a non sequitor from anything else you have written, at least either make it entertaning, witty or true, and your snide insult is NONE of those. If it’s meant to be “Obviously, Argenti would fall for a PUA, because Aertheri is stupid” then you don’t even manage that, because Argenti tells you how that trick would not work when applied to a conversation with Argenti fucking Aertheri. It’s like processing casual relationships in your head is just.. impossible.
Do you genuinely percieve a world of completely isolated objects? Are you a traveller from another dimension who understands each thing as a thing, seperate and inviolable, in such a way as to have to add those things up into other things to perceive and object? Do you cogiate on the atomic scale?
GOOD GOD, GOOD, I am trying so hard to teach you to think, to be a person, to be happy, but it’s like you just… don’t accept. LIke you just don’t care. At all.
Aaaah.
And for the record, you blubbering, festing postule on the backside of a goat yapping endlessly against the harsh, beating sun of the desert, I am stupid enough to fall for a PUA trick, because I did, and I have, and it happens, and you want to know why? Because you can manipulate people fairly easily exactly because not everyone is constantly paranoid about other people. That doesn’t make it right.
And for the record, Argenti Aertheri has an minimum level of education capable of at least writing in a pleasing manner and constructing sentences, which you clearly do not.
Bees, man. BEES.
Wonderful handwaving, darling. Simply fabulous. Next time I need a really ambiguous non-response I’ll just have to call you up.
@arubakeru: When I said earlier that this seems like a bad attempt at turning social-awkwardness into a successful pick-up technique, I didn’t mean to offend socially awkward people, so I really apologize. I wasn’t really thinking about how I was wording my statement, and I can see where it may have been taken as a statement that equates awkwardness as assholery.
What I meant was that what this guy was saying his audience could be deliberately awkward in order to confuse women emotionally, literally turning awkwardness into a pick-up technique and using it to manipulate others. It’s as though he looked at awkward people in social situations possibly getting sympathy from the people they were interacting with and thought that it would be the perfect strategy to create an emotionally charged situation (at the same time not knowing what he was talking about).
I don’t know about the other times anyone has joked about awkwardness on the site, but I remember saying that earlier, so I wanted to say sorry. You’re not being overly sensitive, by the way. There’s no reason why you shouldn’t bring up problematic behavior or when you feel personal affront from a statement.
@Good: You don’t understand what exactly the problem here is, aren’t you? The problem is not that PUAs are using these techniques and succeeding at “short-circuiting” women’s brains, whatever that means. It’s that they literally think of sleeping with them as though it’s a bonus level in a damn video game, or that they can enter a certain code that will override a woman’s consent. Their attitude is the problem here, not their ineffectual techniques.
Do TRY to comprehend why that’s a problem, won’t you?
Viscaria, it’s not, he just wants to use it as an excuse to say “See! Women do it too!!!”
Literally his whole argument style is “No YOU!” or something similar “Two wrongs make a right!” It’s really pretty pathetic when you think about how long he’s been at this with us, if I’d spent this much time with people who were so much more knowledgable about…well.. everything, I’d have at least picked up one or two pointers about arguments and engaging with people conversationally. Especially if people had mentioned it to me over and over and over and over and over and over and over… and over.
Honestly, the actual technique a PUA uses is not the issue, the issue is and always has been that these people think using a technique to get someone into bed, instead of just not being manipulative, is normal or good. Hint: Whether or not a technique works, if you’re using it to fuck someone who otherwise wouldn’t fuck you, you’re doing some seriously unethical rapey shit. Period. Even if the sex doesn’t happen. It’s the fact you’re trying to fuck someone who doesn’t want to or wouldn’t want to fuck you without being fed lies/manipulation that’s the problem.
LesserGood’s irrelevant links: more numerous than an MRA gathering? I think probably so at this point.
And for the record, you blubbering, festing postule on the backside of a goat yapping endlessly against the harsh, beating sun of the desert, I am stupid enough to fall for a PUA trick, because I did, and I have, and it happens, and you want to know why? Because you can manipulate people fairly easily exactly because not everyone is constantly paranoid about other people. That doesn’t make it right.
Were you in control of your behavior? Just because you have a weak mind doesn’t make you non responsible. From the way you behave here, I’m not surprised that it worked on you and that it was used on you.
Good, focus. Would you just focus on what the problem is instead of shaming others for not sharing your twisted sense of “responsibility”?
You know who’s also responsible for their own behavior? PUA’s. and yet, Good does not seem to want to acknowledge that. It’s the PUA’s, like Julian up there, who are being manipulative assholes. Whether that works or not is not the point; the point is being a manipulative asshole is skeevy.
No, it’s like saying that someone who thinks that yelling “SHAZAM!” in your face will knock you out so they can steal everything in your house intends to be a thief.
That the procedure is patently ridiculous and unlikely to work does not change the intended outcome. If he is using hyperbole, then he’s telling people that shouting contradictory statements very quickly is a good way to make yourself appear attractive, which it isn’t. More importantly, if he intended to use hyperbole, he made some pretty poor language choices.
“You kill me”? Hyperbole.
“This is infinitely more entertaining than staring at a bag of hammers”? Hyperbole.
“The blow knocked him insensible”? Not hyperbole.
“Make her incapable of logically computing what’s being said”? Not hyperbole.
Aw, thanks Fibinachi :) Not that he was remotely right, or anything but laughable, but still, it’ sweet of you
What I want to know is how one (really stupid and ironic) neg was supposed to be comparable to the non-stop barrage of extremes video dude recommends.
What’s your name? I love you! What’d you say your name was? I hate you! Why are you doing this to me?! <– pretty much direct from the video
You know who’s also responsible for their own behavior? PUA’s. and yet, Good does not seem to want to acknowledge that. It’s the PUA’s, like Julian up there, who are being manipulative assholes. Whether that works or not is not the point; the point is being a manipulative asshole is skeevy.
PUAs acknowledge who they are and what they do. Who are they blaming? I’m
Eh, I suppose that is actually true. I do have a weak mind. I had it measured once. Incidentally, since you responded to me – the trick there was “Calling you a name to get your attention”. PUA’s call that… “Being aloof and teasing”. Alternatively, by nattering on, I short-circuited your mind (impossibly!) and you were forced to respond. Does that mean you have a weak mind too?
Apologies for that, by the by. I don’t actually think you are a festering anything.
But hey, it’s… my fault if you’re weak minded enough to respond to stuff like that. Or something.
So, going to tell actually answer why we’re dumb, what the measurement is and why the way “I behave here” (rhyming, sometimes? Ranting a lot? Not participating in dialogue about knitting?) means I have a weak mind that someone could short-circuit (which was impossible, of course) and that I am still responsible for being in control of my behaviour when other people use “The way I behave” to “work something on me” and if something was “Used on me” that’s still only my problem?
q:
*sigh* Remember those days when our trolls were colorful and entertaining? Yeah, Good just isn’t making the cut.
That said, I’m glad I don’t live in Good’s world, where apparently his sexual acts are all transactional. Sounds miserable.
I take full responsibility for my action of calling you an itchy rash upon the groin of humanity, Good.
RE: Argenti
We’re doing this Friday right?
Damn straight! Though an inquiry to pecunium, if he’s around; what time should we meet up? Should I plan my timing for the trip back to Long Island afterward, or am I going to be parking on his couch tonight.
Why bother? He’s not going to respond to any points addressing what he said, he’ll just disappear and come to a new thread, spread his shit, ignore replies, and disappear again; lather, rinse and repeat until the end of time.
Really, I’m beginning to think the All About (not so) Good show should get the mallet of loving correction.
Good: Somebody acknowleging they are an asshole doesn’t make them any less of an asshole. And I’m pretty sure They don’t go up to women in clubs and say, “Hi, I’m a PUA and I’m now going to try to use some stupid technique I read about in a bl
Disgusting “techniques” such as this are effective at one thing: countering any claims that PUA is about building confidence and such, not manipulating women as machines which output sex for their operators. Comparing women to fembots. How revealing.
LBT — his beloved’s sister is going to be here, so I’m on the couch. And I don’t think he’s around currently, but I’m sure he’ll reply to email soon enough.
*there
But hey, it’s… my fault if you’re weak minded enough to respond to stuff like that. Or something.
Great effort. I responded exactly they way I wanted. But I have never had some undesirable woman manipulate me into doing something I regret. Big difference. You got played, showing the apparently PUA works.
[Damn it, hit the wrong button!]
But to finish my thought, I’m pretty sure a PUA doesn’t walk up to a woman in a club and say, “Hi! I’m a PUA and I’m now going to try to manipulate you into bed with me using some stupid technique I read about in a blog.” That would be honestly acknowledging who they were.
“the” = “that”
So wait, you’re a confusing asswipe so you can retort with “you got played”? Cuz saying things that contradict each other seems to be your game.
I have a pretty bad case of general anxiety disorder, and I can easily get overwhelmed by really weird (not a neat kind of weird, I like those people, this video kind of weird), intense, off-putting people. If someone tried to pull this kind of thing with me, it would probably cause the kind of confusion this asshole is looking for, but it wouldn’t turn out the way he want it to; I would be doing everything possible to get the fuck away from that person, and for any support I may need after, call a friend or my parents.
I don’t think it’s a good technique if it makes me want to run away and call my dad…
I mean, is this supposed to be a sure-fire, Works-On-All-Women kind of technique? Because it isn’t. If it’s not, why not just talk to people like normal human beings? You’re going to be far less likely to cause a panic attack.
And if you have a hard time talking to people, acting like this… isn’t going to help. This seems like it would only be a technique for extremely confident people, not the kinds of people who have a lot of trouble talking to women already. This is useless, for two reasons, at best, and just strange and creepy at the worst.
“PUAs acknowledge who they are and what they do.” –Good
Yeah, to online audiences. They sure as hell don’t inform the women they’re trying to “pick up.” And considering what they are trying to do, the women in question are the ones that have the right to know.
If I use manipulation to steal your phone, and post instructions online on how to do it yourself, it doesn’t change the fact that I stole your phone.
Watch the following and tell me it would not be theft if he kept the items:
See, case in point!
“Nobody can short circuit anyone’s brain with a freaking conversation.”
Translation: this PUA technique can’t work
“You got played, showing the apparently PUA works.”
Translation: but PUA does work.
So it’ sustain this one technique you say won’t work? But if people fall for the techniques that’s their own fault, for having a “weak mind”? But not this technique, because it’d never work?
@Good, you missed “they” = “the”, but good effort. I can see you’re trying!
I still think you’re an itchy rash upon the groin of humanity, Good. And I am totally up front in that I believe PUA is full of shit.
Speaking of cooler shit, GUESS WHO GOT QUEER COMICS EROTICA AT THE CON? 8D A handful of my buddies’ work is in it, it’s entirely done in pink and purple, and I APPROVE.
From the comments policy:
This guy has really stuck around for longer than expected.
Yeah, and he’s not nearly as colorful as say, Tom Martin.
… heh.
Hehah.
Heheheheh.
so many assumptions.
Still didn’t answer my questions, mind.
—-
Anyway, 1) Have a great time, and good luck on your trip LBT. I hope it’s neat!
2) I just realized Good is actually using this technique, on us, this forum, right now. Saying random things to short-circuit our brains into jolting and feeling attracted. Revising my previous statement in light of this development, it turns out Good is actually a mastermind of techniques for conversation…
3) … Which I guess is proof that PUA’try sometimes does work, if what you’re aiming for is confusion among those you communicate with.
@cloudiah:
I think my earlier comment falls under that one, actually.
@thread: Sorry. I’ll avoid calling anyone a festering anything or hinting they’re alien invaders from a different dimension in which casuality flows sideways to the way it does here again. And maybe work on not writing comments that are so long.
Hey Julian asshole! If you want a woman to like you, you don’t treat her like prey.
RE: Fibinachi
Oh, it shall be! I’m planning to be as active as I can be on my blog, and will try to be here second, but we’ll see how that pans out. I really hope to meet more Boobzers on my trip!
About that comments policy… I’d say that “persistently offensive, disruptive, and tedious” describes LesserGood pretty damn well.
I don’t know. All Good does to my brain is bore it. Persistent Tedium would be Good’s middle name, if he had one.
If it doesn’t work, PUAs are Stupid.
If it does work, PUAs are Evil.
Stupid or Evil, Good?
Speaking only for myself, I find Good hilarious. But then I find drying paint pretty amusing, so this might be a disorder on my part.
I generally don’t find the word evil to be useful… but both. Stupid for believing that people are robots without sense or feelings of their own. Evil (or just bad) for wanting to manipulate people into sleeping with them.
It’s like dnd alignments. If you believe it and practice it? Stupid Evil. Believe it but don’t practice it? Stupid Good. Don’t believe it, but would practice it? Clever Evil. Don’t believe it and don’t practice it? Clever Good. Totally uninterested in it? Cat.
To be honest, if a Julien did that to me, I’d think he was asking for a drug deal.
Good clearly doesn’t believe that gaslighting & psychological torture exist.
My dad gaslighted me so badly for years, that I came to believe that I was worthless, stupid, incompetent, & mentally ill. He made me believe that I couldn’t do a damn thing, & that I was losing my mind. Gaslighting is very much a real thing.
As for the psychological torture, I was conditioned by someone else into thinking that when I saw certain images or heard certain words that I was going to die. Then my parents used it as punishment because they didn’t know that I was having severe panic attacks thinking I was going to drop dead or worse. They just thought I had some irrational, childish fear.
(Guys, it really is me. I’m just posting with another e-mail so that it doesn’t link to my WordPress blog or profile.)
Fibinachi, I think you’re just peachy, festering alien invaders and all!
By the way, if any Boobzers want to get in contact with me and do meet-up stuff, please let met know! I’m going to be getting sporadic in a couple of days, and I’d really like to have folks’s emails so I can rig up meetups, crash space, coffees, whatever. Send me some of your newfangled electronic mails up to me via loonybrain at healthymultiplicity dot com! Hope to be seeing folks this fall/winter!
This reminds me (again) of the Sovereign Citizens shtik. It’s ritual magic for boring people – learn the right incantations and suddenly you have cheat codes for reality. Personality, good hygiene, a life that’s interesting enough to talk about – naah, just peacock, neg and mindf##k your way to the sex life that is yours by right!
LBT, I hope your trip is A W E S O M E!
“Totally uninterested in it? Cat.”
I was gonna change that to uninterested in everything, but then there are feet to chase and curtains to hide behind and unknown things to flip the fuck out over (literally at least once, she literally flipped over for no apparent reason, and I don’t mean random cat rolling)