For A Voice for Men, and its Edmonton offshoot, terrifying women is a form of “human rights activism.”
Men’s Rights Edmonton activist at work
So the self-described “human rights activists” at A Voice for Men have found three more women to harass. Here’s the story, which for many of you will have a depressingly familiar ring:
Members of Men’s Rights Edmonton, a small group that is for all intents and purposes a local chapter of A Voice for Men, has been putting up pictures targeting Lise Gotell, the chair of women’s and gender studies at the University of Alberta. The pictures, which seem inspired by “Wanted” posters of yore, feature a large portrait of Gotell and the caption:
Theft isn’t black. Bank fraud isn’t Jewish. And rape isn’t male.
“Just because you’re paid to demonize men doesn’t mean rape is gendered. Don’t be that bigot.
Gotell’s crime? She was involved in what appears to have been a remarkably effective rape awareness campaign focusing on date rape and featuring the slogan “Don’t Be That Guy.”
A Voice for Men took exception to the campaign because, even thought it did deal with the male victims of rape, it didn’t devote equal time to the problem of evil, false-accusing “girls.” No, really. Men’s Rights Edmonton Activists put up “satirical” versions of the campaign’s posters with the slogan “Don’t Be that Girl.” Now, MR-E and AVFM, at least according to the “argument” advanced on their new poster, seem to be upset that the campaign didn’t devote equal time to the problem of female rapists. [Note: this paragraph has been corrected; see note at end of piece.]
Gotell spoke out against the posters, and now Men’s Rights Edmonton and AVFM are doing their best to smear her as a “bigot.” Because she doesn’t believe that women are responsible for half of all rapes.
Since this is not actually true — more on this in a later post — it’s hard to see how this makes her a bigot.
As a rule, I don’t support tearing down the posters of one’s ideological enemies. Free speech and all that. But these posters are different: they’re slanderous personal attacks designed to harass an individual. Were they posted in my neighborhood I would tear them down.
And evidently that’s what some people in Edmonton have been doing.
Indeed, one recent night, several members of Men’s Rights Edmonton claim to have caught two women doing just that. While they don’t seem to have video footage of the women tearing down the posters, the MRAs filmed themselves following the women down the street and angrily confronting them for this alleged crime.
They posted the video to YouTube, and AVFM posted it as well, under the typically overheated title “Men’s Rights Edmonton confronts fascists.” They screencapped images of both women from the video and announced their intention to uncover their personal information:
MR-E would like to know the names of these two women so that charges of destruction of property can be laid against them. Also, the world should know the identities of those who seek to silence and censor messages advocating for human rights.
Of course, this is ridiculous. Tearing down a poster that was almost certainly posted illegally in the first place isn’t “destruction of property.” No one is going to be prosecuted for this. The police have better things to do.
But of course that’s not the real intent here. The real intent here is to scare the shit out of these women and other feminists by exposing them to harassment online — like the woman labeled “Big Red” and countless other women who have been targeted by AVFM and other MRAs (sometimes completely erroneously).
AVFM’s Paul Elam gave the game away with an “editor’s note” added to the post:
[A] woman who vandalizes man’s property and then flips him off when he confronts her about it on a dark street at night only acts in this manner because she is certain she has absolutely nothing to fear. Feminists terrified of MHRAs? My ass.
Elam could not have made it any clearer: the main point of this kind of “activism” — which has become AVFM’s bread and butter — is all about intimidating women, not helping men.
AVFM, where terrifying individual women is “human rights activism.”
Here’s the appropriate response to that:
CORRECTION/CLARIFICATION: I rewrote the paragraph starting with “A Voice for Men took exception,” which confused AVRM/MR-E’s current objection to Gotell’s views with its original “argument” against the “Don’t Be That Guy” campaign.
Posted on September 18, 2013, in a voice for men, antifeminism, doxing, drama kings, edmonton, entitled babies, evil women, harassment, imaginary backwards land, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, not-quite-explicit threats, not-quite-plausible deniability, oppressed white men, paul elam, playing the victim, rape, rape culture, taking pleasure in women's pain, the poster revolution has begun, things that aren't fascism and tagged antifeminism, edmonton, men's rights, misogyny, MRA, rape, rape culture. Bookmark the permalink. 937 Comments.
Jason had said exactly zero original things in this thread MRAbot must be tired.
“When people think they can silence men by insinuating that they are all losers and that that is a witty retort instead of a blatant display of female privilege, misandry exists.”
It’s a good thing I know men other than Jason, because with only Jason as an example I would think men were losers. Because he isn’t doing a good show of showing that he isn’t one.
“Feminists are atheists the same way a Christian who doesn’t believe in Allah or Thor is a “Christian atheist.””
WTF?
>>>Ps, what’s with Jason’s obsession with “marrying down”?
He’s part of that grand tradition of men who think their problem in getting a girlfriend lies in the fact that somehow every lower/working class woman in existence is marrying into the 1% rather than their “winning” personality which makes every human being, including most men, run away as fast as possible in the opposite direction when they come.
Jason – get more women judges and make the bench more equal gender wise. Women judges are not as lenient as male judges are towards sentencing.
I wonder why…
“Jason had said exactly zero original things in this thread MRAbot must be tired.”
I don’t know. That feminist atheists = Christian atheists thing is a new one to me. But the only new one to me. Too bad I have no idea what the hell kind of sense it makes.
At least he appreciates that any woman who married him would be settling for something way worse than she deserved. That’s a kind of refreshing honesty.
@alice
worry not you’re not an asshole :P I assumed there were some (feminists who were atheists) here, but wasn’t one, so couldn’t use myself as an example for Jason
@jason
::le sigh::
Okay, you don’t want women to work dangerous jobs, but you also want same # work related injuries? I am confuse. Suicide rates- women often try to kill themselves in different ways. Who had the link to stats on these, I don’t want to be blabbering more w/o stats?
>>>>This is why feminism can never help men – because you make fun of men for crying,
You’re not a man. You’re a bro. I make fun of bros for crying, because they’re sitting on privilege and complaining about the possibility of losing it.
Also, seriously, atheism is “not believing in a supreme deity”. Feminism has no deities. Nor is feminism a religion. So 0/10, Jason, try harder. And stop redefining terms.
Fibinachi, thanks for a semi-decent response, although I imagine you were being more sarcastic than I’m giving you credit for.
Men want women’s love. Men will do a lot for women’s love. If women made it clear that they loved men who could hop on one foot, there’d be hopping gyms springing up all over America. if women want men to change, they should be willing to love men who don’t perform. Women don’t like being the “damsels in distress” in video games, apparently. If that’s the case, they should be the ones fighting dragons to rescue the prince more often.
Jason makes me want to take up religious belief of some sort. I think I might go with something a bit “indie.” Marduk seems cool.
@blackbloc
But…where are all the other women? Or are they just voluntarily celibate XD
Dude *facepalm* I am pretty sure you have no record of dragon fighting.
@jason
…and that’s what women are trying to do? You’re like listing things people are trying to do and acting like noones doing anything about it.
Besides, christ, dude, read your own words:
“If women become coal miners, coal miners will start to feel less useful because they have been taught bad things about other people, and their inability to shake their own worldview will make them angry and upset”
… You don’t go: “Offer them the explanation that women don’t, in fact, marry up” or “You don’t need to be the sole provider, that’s not all that defines masculine” or “Being a slave to other people’s opinions is a suckers game” or “Talk a bit about expectations in a relationship and how to structure task sharing” or “Talk about archetypes and definitions of power”, you jump straight to “If women marry down, men won’t feel upset about them being coal miners, because they’ll think they still have a chance at getting laid and getting married”.
this is wrong. It’s not the job of other people to make you more secure in your disbelief. It’s your own mind and your job to fucking make it work for you.
How many sectors of industry do you want blocked off on account of irate, angry people with issues about their own security and low self confidence? How many sectors of the job market are women not allowed into because them working there would make the people feel they can’t offer something special?
Why not attack the root of the god damn problem, that they think they have to offer something special (And, interestingly, that if a woman does something, it’s no longer special enough to warrant attention huh huh implication huh uh interesting thing huh huh).
Please.
Life a happy life.
>>>But…where are all the other women?
They’re all fucking sports stars and movie stars and rock stars and captains of industry, somehow. It’s a wonder those people have time to do anything else but fuck women.
HYPERGAMY!
Hey Marie, would a CDC pamphlet regarding suicide help your case?
Women are more likely to poison themselves. Because the poison is in the dose, you need to take a lot of poison to kill yourself, and it often doesn’t work.
Men are more likely to use handguns. Those will kill you much more often.
Women are also more likely to think about suicide.
“Feminism has no deities.”
You’re missing the point, if you think that feminists aren’t as dogmatic as any religious-believers.
>>>Dude *facepalm* I am pretty sure you have no record of dragon fighting.
Like every area replete with MRAs, though, I’m sure there’s a lot of damaged windmills along the way.
@blackbloc
Hypergammy. I should have know. *turns on nice guy tm voice* damn you hypergammy! DAMN YOU TO HEEEELLLLL
@Alice
Yes that helps, thanks :) I’ll start reading it to quote to our boring troll.
As far as I could figure, he’s saying that feminists have to worship Thor. I’m strangely OK with this.
Jason – atheism isn’t skepticism either. You’re an atheist if you don’t believe in deities. Period. Learn to use a dictionary sometime, you’ll learn something.
@jason
…?
troll to english translation here plz?
In my experience, women are willing to love men who don’t perform. I second Fibinachi, your world view is hella sad, dude.
Marie – Jason doesn’t know how to use a dictionary. That’s all.
“Like every area replete with MRAs, though, I’m sure there’s a lot of damaged windmills along the way.”
That is honestly the best insult I’ve heard all day. Certainly better than all the “fuck off, you’re a horrible person” shit earlier. You get a brofist for that one.
I was going to quote more stats, but Alice summed it up pretty concisely, gender disparity wise. Different ways with different levels of effectiveness.
>>troll to english translation here plz?
Feminists have opinions, and ideology, which is just like religion, which means they can’t be atheists or skeptics. Unlike Jason whose ideas are all formed fully from pure first principles, that were handed down to him by Saint Rand and Saint Dawkins.
Oh, and Marie, here’s the Wikipedia page regarding gender differences in suicide. I would have put both of them in the same comment, except then it’d go to moderation and you won’t see it.
Oh, I get it. Sorry, I slightly misunderstood your previous point. Wasn’t being sarcastic, however. It… It sounds quite sad to me. So good luck with it.
But there’s a disconnection between “Men want women’s love” and “Men are taught that in order to get that love, they have to be useful, so women shouldn’t be coal miners, because then coal miners will feel they have nothing to offer”.
If you can’t percieve that disconnect, then I don’t… rightly know what to say, or how to say it, to make it clear that the problem isn’t wanting love and affection, the problem is the way “Men are taught”. And, ultimately, I don’t think it’s “Women’s” (Which is honestly not even a phrase I know what *means*) job to do anything.
And it occurs to me you’d get far more results by, again, hitting the root of the issue – the wrong assumptions about other people, than you’d be when trying to make those other people do something to make you feel better.
@alice
that would explain a lot :P
Jason thinks that the insults towards him are intended to be good, rather than just expressions of contempt. Interesting.
Women know how to kill themselves. They could do it properly if they really wanted. (I’m not a misogynist, so I don’t believe women are stupid.) In many cases, a suicide attempt is a plea for help. That’s very different from a completed suicide.
>>>You get a brofist for that one.
I’m bisexual and typically bottom. You should be careful about promising me brofists. I might misunderstand what you mean.
Saint Rand? I hate her. In face I was part of the Occupy movement. You shouldn’t be so quick to stereotype anyone who cares about men’s issues…
@blackbloc
of course. I should have known XD (he was hard to understand though.)
@alice
thanks for link :D I’ve bookmarked for future reference, but I’m not quoting until trollboy actually responds to the last think you said about it. He’s kinda goal-post shifty.
Marie – I know, right? :P
The sad thing is that I know religious trolls that try to redefine atheism to suit their ideology too, which is why I know what atheism is off-hand. I even have the Oxford English dictionary backing me up and everything!
But of course, since when do MRAs learn how to use dictionaries? :P
There should be a little firing squad that goes around injuring women, duh. To be fair.
ugh, not with the suicide is a plea for help shit again. dude, find a new shtick, this one is as insulting as hell *oh, I forget. that was the point.
Nobody can miscalculate the dose of a poison/med while so distraught/depressed/desperate they want to end their life! it’s just a plea for help!
But in body, you were elsewhere.
We need MRAs in “Occupy” just like we need antisemites, i.e. not at all.
FYI, I think we might have a far more interesting troll in the most recent thread about the Machine, calling himself LordoftheAlphas. He called David a beta and his blog calls the President O-Beta.
Do we need to do this whole ‘plea for help’ thing? There’s nothing wrong with asking for help (infact it is good) but I don’t like the whole narrative, especially since it always has a ‘just doing it for attention’ undertone to me. It also seems to minimize how serious suicide-attempts are.
idk I’m rambling but does that make any sense? (@nontrolls)
Well, David kind of is a beta…
David is the second letter of the greek alphabet? In addition to being ferrets in cat suits in a human suit and also all of the commenters on this site, this must wear him out.
I know what you mean; there’s just no freaking things as alphas and betas.
“Well, David kind of is a beta…”
V_V
Can you try to be less predictable?
Jason – Uh, no, that’s not why women are more likely to choose to poison themselves. It’s because society states that women aren’t supposed to be violent and whatnot.
And trust me. For most (if not all people), if you’re attempting to do suicide, you’re in the mindset of “I want to actually DIE”, not “I’M GONNA DO IT TO GET ATTENTION”.
Also, don’t talk shit about women being unable to commit suicide. Poison isn’t an instantaneous “one swallow and you drop down dead”. It takes time for your body to process the poison, and in many cases, you’re often discovered before the poison kills you and taken to hospital (or you realize “oh shit, I screwed up” and call 911 on your own, which happened to a friend of mine).
Jason cannot be less predictable, he blew his wad with atheist feminist thing.
Goddammit, I’m supposed to be out gardening in this perfect weather and instead I’m sitting here eating a Klondike bar and listening to a moron rant about women.
There is no such thing as alphas and betas. The whole alpha/beta thing was :
a) a study about wolf societies
b) that was *wrong* about wolves in the first place
c) applied to human beings without any fucking reason to do so
d) and coupled with additional bullshit
e) all wrapped up in order to provide a just-so story to explain phenomenas that don’t actually happen in reality (i.e. hypergamy)
@katz
We don’t have perfect whether, and also I’m having a recovering-from-the-week day, so this is juuust fine with me. XD
Katz: at least you’re aware of what you’d do for Klondike bar.
Well, I don’t think gardening while holding a Klondike bar in your hand would be very easy. Not unless you want melted vanilla ice cream on your gloves.
Katz – I should be packing things to start moving into my college apartment tomorrow. What am I doing? Watching an MRA troll.
Now I want a Klondlike bar. :(
@Alice
Do you mind a random question? (hobby related)
greendaywantsavatars – Sure, ask away. If I can answer it, I’ll do so. :)
I should be scheduling more GEDs. :P but instead I’m watching a troll.
Do you play runescape? (your nym reminds me of some of the names you have to use if you’re going undercover as a vampire in a quest… the sanguinaria part)
And if you were not happy to take every single thing that nice guy did for you? If you repeatedly rejected his advances? If you said no over, and over, and over, and over, and over again? If you did not accept his one-sided altruism? Is he still entitled to fuck you, simply because he wouldn’t take no for an answer?
…Well played.
greendaywantsavatars – Actually, I did play Runescape for a few years! I don’t play it anymore, because it gave my computer viruses at least twice and because it gets boring when you don’t have a membership account.
Incidentally, Sanguinaria is the genus for bloodroot, of which the red liquid from its roots can pretty much eat flesh and make serious wounds. So don’t ever touch the stuff with your bare hands, although the flowers are quite pretty.
@Alice
It gets so boring when you don’t have membership! and I don’t have money for one but I loved doing the quests :(
/fangirl mode.
Yes. You could be outside, listening to a moron rant about women. This way, you won’t get all sunburnt! Good thinking!
Okay, this is still greendaywantsavatars; I just finally fixed it to my regular name.
That sucks about your computer. Also, yes, it is sooooo boring without a membership once you get past the beginning stage. I quit because I didn’t have cash, and also it was a time soak. Leveling up in MMORPGS is freaking /hard/
Also, knowing the definition of your name makes it like, ten times more cool. XD
Marie – I know, right? I once went around cutting down trees and setting fire to wood so that I could level up my woodcutting and firemaking skills (I forget what they’re called after so many years). But all of the interesting stuff is locked behind a pay wall, and that sucks. I want to be able to wear dragon sometimes! I want to be able to go explore membership places!
As a poor thirteen year old without an allowance or a way to get money, you can imagine how much this sucked!
My brother funded his runescape membership by staying off runescape for a week (our dad told him he was spending too much time on it, and told him he’d give him five dollars for him not playing for a week).
I do not think it worked how dad imagined it. :P
Of course, they’re moving the price up. It used to be like, what five or six dollars? And now its either eight or nine.
@alice
Ouch XD I actually suckered my parents into paying for some when I was younger (14 or so) But now I’m too old, alas, and need to use my own money.
ps, I think woodcutting and firemaking is right, no weird names.
pps, I spent like forever cutting down trees to afford and armadyl chestplate. It was took forever, and I kicked myself when I found better ways to make money later. :p like, why didn’t I know this earlier?
ppps, am I boring anyone?
@Fade
Nine??!?!?!??! wow. >:(
Fade – Yeah. I think the second time we got a virus on that thing it took us like a week to get rid of it. I quit because I didn’t have cash either, plus grinding is boring as hell (and as I said, aforementioned viruses, stupid hackers inserting code into webpages).
:D Science is awesome. I found out about this plant because people actually use this stuff in CAM medicine as a “natural” way to treat skin cancer. Of course, you should never put this stuff on your skin, it looks terrible and can leave you with some really bad scars.
Before I was back in school, and when my depression was flaring up, I spent a time where I did not use my computer for internet at all, because there was something (i think it was a virus. Idk) that prevented me from accessing internet. It lasted like, four months or something because that’s how long it took for me to bite the bullet and take my computer in to the fixer-uppers.