Hugs if you want them.
This is a continuation from here. A thread to discuss personal issues and provide support for one another. No trolls, no arguments.
Posted on September 14, 2013, in kitties, off topic, open thread. Bookmark the permalink. 603 Comments.
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Also, for the last half hour I’ve been tormenting my kitties with a new laser pointer/toy thingie. I got Buster to run in circles chasing it for so long it made her dizzy.
They’re cute.
cloudiah – videos or it didn’t happen!
Since we’ve all accepting going off topic (we have, right?) apparently I’ve been getting ssri withdrawl, (according to my dad.) so I blame my fuzzy brain on that.
Also, if I may derail (like ignore me if I can’t) what’s a good way for me to work up courage to talk to my homophobic, sexist step mom? So far I’ve decided my best course of action is to let her know I have a huge-ass problem with her and won’t be around there until she stops being such a sexist, homophobic jerk. (and yes I will phrase it a teeny bit nicer). Unless she’s paying me to babysit her kids. They are cute, and money is good.
And my mom’s bringing her sister over sometime in October, which wouldn’t be that bad except my trust level around people has been so low the past couple months.
Have you spoken to your dad about your stepmother’s attitude, Marie? I remember someone suggesting that a while back. He should have your corner on this. It’s not like you and she are just disagreeing on politics or taste in music or something, she’s attacking a core part of who you are, whether he and she realise it or not.
Okay, feeding your little ones cereal and apricot goo is going to get it all over your fingers, it’s inevitable.
Coincidentally, I have discovered a new squick: baby food fingers.
I’d have thought it’d be “all over”, no need to narrow the field!
I’m afraid baby food and the way it travels has been one of my squicks forever.
(Well, once I was past the age of being the one doing the spreading, that is.)
@kittehs
he knows I have a problem with her, but he’s not doing anything. I don’t mind cuz I don’t know what either of us should do either. It’s not like you can force people to change their minds…so far I’m just hoping he’ll cooperate if/when I have to cut most of my contact with her. I’m more worried about talking to her, because I have a much easier time talking with my dad.
It’s not even making her change her mind, I think; it’s making her behave decently to you. Bad enough that she’s homophobic, but I don’t think it’s too much to ask that he should tell her it’s not acceptable to talk that way. But yeah, I’m thinking cutting contact might be the best thing. It’s not like you enjoy her company apart from this one thing, is it?
Or rather, would enjoy her company if she weren’t homophobic; I worded it badly then, like it’s a minor matter – sorry!
Well yes, but I have no problem looking at a baby covered in goo.
It’s feeling my fingers slowly congeal that’s the problem.
@marie: I’m sorry, I still don’t have any advice for you. But i hope she takes your words to heart.
In the meantime, here’s a baby girl with a butterfly in her hair.
Marie, did you ask your dad to talk to her?
In either case, I’m a big fan of having asshole-ish behavior have consequences, even if the consequences aren’t exactly what you like. I think you (or your dad) should tell her that her behavior means that you will spend less time there, which means your dad won’t get to see as much of you as he would like. All you are asking is that she refrain from making sexist & homophobic comments in front of you.
In other news, Business Insider did a story on the Red Pillers:
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-red-pill-reddit-2013-8
@kittehs
I’d enjoy her company if she weren’t homophobic/sexist, but I have a really hard time being around people when I know they hold hateful views like that. Idk if it makes any sense, but it just feels fake? Like I’m sitting around pretending everything’s peachy when it can’t be. It’s the only thing I can think about when I’m around her. She may act pleasant (heck a lot of people would probably think she’s nicer than me because she phrases all of her shit innocently, like ‘oh well it’s just an opinion’ or ‘everyone’s entitled to their own opinion’ or that shit.) So what I’m trying to say in my rambles is that I just can’t be comfy around her? Idk if that makes any sense.
Your wording seemed fine to me but I’m kinda brain-frazzled right now so I’m a bad judge.
Anyway I saved the advice you all gave me last time on a word document in case I need to see it later, my main goal was to work up the courage to tell her this whole ‘existing around each other’ in peace thing isn’t gonna last.
@falconer
D’aww, she’s adorable :3
@cloudiah
I haven’t asked my dad to talk to her yet, I wanna wait til I see where everything goes so I say something less…idk general or whatever than I have right now. Right now I know there’s a problem but idk how to fix it, which is why I wanna talk to her, so I know where we stand/ what’s all going on. Just to clear the air, though it may make things more awkward for her (which I can’t be bothered to care that much at the moment) but I always feel better when I get everything out in the open.
Marie, it makes perfect sense that you can’t be comfortable around her, and that makes it clear (which I should have thought through before) that it’s not even a matter of her shutting up with her toxic shit around you; that doesn’t change the fact she feels that way, and you know it.
I’d really say it’s minimise-contact time.
@kittehs
Yeah, now I just need to work up the nerve to tell her :P
That Business Insider article is an example of that obnoxious journalism that just quotes everyone as though they were equally right and doesn’t bother telling you whether any of it is actually true or not.
My eyes started glazing over after a few paragraphs of that Business Insider thing. If I could have been bothered logging in, I’d have said, “It really isn’t complicated. These men are misogynists. Or, if you want shorter words, they hate women.”
Marie: I heartily endorse whatever course of action you feel comfortable with. Didn’t mean to sound like I was pressuring you one way or another!
More random: Anyone read the new John Scalzi? What’d you think?
Argh
I picked up a pack of Kraft tasty instead of Bega tasty by mistake (side by side and almost identical wrappings) … NEVER AGAIN. Just about passable on toast, but on its own? Yuk.
Kittehs, I feel like you’re speaking another language again. :D
@cloudiah
no worries, didn’t seem like you were pressuring me :)
I’m thinking it’s a good thing I’m only getting the buisness insider filtered through you guys. It sounds…fairly bothersome.
Kittehs, I’m seconding cloudiah’s you’re speaking another language :P I couldn’t tell what you just said.
@Marie, maybe start with just pointing out that what she just said or did is objectionable. Like, “Hey, you know, that’s kind of homophobic.”
Non-accusatory, non-fight-starting. Just making an observation. If she hears it often enough (without having to get defensive about it), she may stop doing it out loud. Baby steps.
@unimaginative
I’ve already tried that :P She seems to take objection to people pointing out what she says is shitty.
Well, what she says IS shitty. I’m always amazed when people say offensive stuff and then get mad when someone calls them on it. One time a random white woman made a racist comment to me on an airport shuttle, and I said something like “What in the world makes you think I would agree with that?” And she got SO offended she had to change seats, and then periodically look back at me and make huffing noises.
LOL I am speaking the esoteric language of Downunder Cheeses! Just two brands, but one I like and the other … blerk.
Marie, I’m going with what assholish behaviour having consequences. You’ve tried calling your stepmother out before, or have at least seen her reaction if other people do. You know you’re not up to getting in a stoush over this, or are reluctant for whatever reasons (all legit!). You’re not getting backup from your dad, for whatever reasons. Seems that you haven’t many realistic, do-able options. It’s not fair to you to be expected to “make nice” and endure her bigotry, even if the expectation is a passive one. I’m wondering if you could just tell your dad you need to be away from her, that it’s distressing/harming you to be around her and you really need to keep your distance. This comes into assholish behaviour having consequences: hers, and, frankly, his, for not backing you. Yes, I know neither of you knows what to do, but fercryinoutaloud he’s your father, he’s not nineteen, he should be giving a bit more support than this. I’m not saying this in the sense of you punishing either of them, but protecting yourself and making your boundaries clear.
On a tangent, your stepmother is also showing she’s a great FAIL at basic hospitality.
@Marie: she’s that kind, is she? Yep, the problem is not MY behaviour, it’s that you’re pointing out my behaviour. I’m sorry, I don’t know if there’s a cure for that.
Erk. That should have been, ” I’m going with what cloudiah said about assholish behaviour having consequences.”
@cloudiah
wow :/ That’s…baffling.
Now I feel like everyone’s all looking down on my dad with this :p I mean in his defense I haven’t asked for back up yet, so I don’t really know what he’ll do. Um, idk rambles
@unimaginative.
yup. When my dad was playing communication tag for us the first time she said something homophobic he said she felt ‘attacked’ the we* called her homophobic.
*me and my sister, not me and my guinea pigs or whatever.
So I’ll say what I thought about the Scalzi book: I thought it was a clever premise, and he’s a very entertaining writer — I laughed out loud several times. But I thought the character development was pretty weak, and it seemed like nearly all of the actual storytelling was accomplished through characters explaining the story to each other. I’m a total noob to SciFi, not an expert critic or anything.
I wouldn’t mind reading something else by him, though. Should I have started with something else? Old Man’s War?
@cloudiah
I wasn’t trying to ignore your conversation, I just actually don’t know anything about Scalzi books. :P
Ah, sorry, Marie, I thought you’d talked about this earlier with your dad, or at least raised the subject.
Only one way you’re going to find out how he’ll react, though. I think you need to tell him clearly what’s going on. Who knows, maybe he’ll have some good ideas himself!
@kittehs
Yeah, the only talking so far I’ve done with him was when it first came up. And no need to apologize for not being telapathic! :P
I think he’ll be fine (I hope.) My parents seem to listen much better than my stepmom, probably cuz they both think they’re stuck with me.
Also: he knows you’re lesbian, right? He must have heard you and your stepmother talking? Has he any reason to think her talk wouldn’t be distressng you? Is he just trying to ignore it and not rock the boat, do you think?
But I should be telepathic! It would make serving the kitties so much easier! :P
I’m glad your parents listen better than you’d think (been there with my mum about that). It sounds like having time to talk properly to him about it might be all to the good.
I tend to think “Good.” when people feel attacked when I point out they’re being assholes, but that’s mostly because I usually am attacking them. Then again, most people I “attack” aren’t people I ever have to see again so that’s not really helpful.
You should definitely recruit your guinea pigs. And your Dad.
More seriously, I’m of the opinion that your approach should be different depending on what you’re trying to do. Are you trying to get her to actually think about what she’s saying/doing? Are you trying to get her to just stop what she’s saying/doing?
If you’re trying to get her to think about it, it’s a lot more difficult and you’ll likely have to withstand a lot more homophobia. When my aunt was doing this I gave up on trying to educate her and just flat out told her “I know you love me, and people who love each other don’t say those kinds of things to each other. I think we’re family, but if you keep talking to me in ways that I find hurtful I’ll have a hard time thinking you feel the same way about me” because it was easier than trying to show her why she was wrong. She was a bit awkward for a bit, but I suspect that was because I made her feel ashamed, which granted, was definitely me being a bit of an asshole. Now she doesn’t say anything and I think she’s mostly forgotten about it.
It’s fine to ignore my Scalzi conversation, which I am having with myself. If I start disagreeing with myself, though, you might want to arrange an intervention. :D
He knows I’m gay. He’s kind of passive in arguments though. I know he talked to her some when it started up but I don’t know how much sense then. He did ask my sister to talk to her about it though :/ Which isn’t the best thing ever. I think he thinks she explains things more…diplomatically than me. Which is true. But still, just because she can do the whole-holding-your-hand thing through isms doesn’t mean it should be necessary. And she said when she tried being diplomatic and more gentle with stepmom stepmom basically just walked all over her.
That got rambly and maybe there was a point in there somewhere you guys can decipher.
ps I should go to bed but I’ve been away from manboobz so long.
pps apparently I’m keeping my sister up since I have the GED tomorrow and she wants to make sure I get to bed.
me tooooooooo.
@sittiekitty
attacking how? I mean I don’t see how pointing out someone’s an asshole is attacking them. (I mean I get why they think it feels like that? Kinda.)
My reaction is more of ‘world’s tiniest violin. :P
I don’t think stepmom would appreciate the guinea pigs cuz one of them isn’t potty trained all hte way :P she still pees on us when she’s out occasionally.
tbh, my main goal atm is to let her know what I think. I don’t know how to compromise/argue with her. especially since last time we were arguing she just ended up ignoring me and repeating the same thing :/
@cloudiah
You’re fine :D we don’t mind your conversations (or couldn’t tell if you thought we did). okay I hsould actually be using I here because I
don’t speak for everyone herehave disconnected from the hivemind, but I don’t think it’s causing annoyance. plus you are awesome.And sorry if I’mmaking no sense I’m tire +ansty not a good combo.
@sittie kitty
You should go to bed or you’ve been away from manboobz too long? Or both :P
Either way let us bond over our similar states. :D
@ Marie – Would Argenti’s imaginary reinforcements idea help when you talk to your stepmom, maybe?
@ NonServiam – Hello! I was just going over the thread and noticed your post – sometimes first posts get lost in the shuffle since they have to be moderated. I’m sorry you’re having such a hard time right now. Would internet hugs help at all?
I am *tired and ansty, not tire. :P
@nonserviam
No good advice from me, but jedi hugs if you want them.
@toujoursgai
I don’t know. I don’t have a problem with shyness usually when I’m talking to her, she just tends to talk over me. Also, I feel like I need to schedule a talk, since our paths hardly cross, but it seems weird to schedule what will probably be a fight.
Okay maybe I actually will ask my dad to help me with that bit then. I hope I don’t forget this idea in the morning.
It’s not really attacking them, I’m just making them feel attacked with my knowledge and words and sometimes I feel like I brought a sword to a spoon fight.
Ah, yea, that sucks. I pretty much gave up with my aunt because she was just going on and on about some bible-related thing about it. I just took the “make her feel ashamed even if she can’t figure out why because she’s too homophobic” route because it was easy and I was tired of hearing about her bullshit. I didn’t really care to explain it to her or educate her on the subject, I just showed her the personal cost to me (slightly exaggerated so it would have more of an impact) and let her choose whether she wanted to continue or not. If she’d chosen not, I prolly would have just exploded at her the next time (it had been going on for months, and she’d been starting to weave some slut-shaming into it which I was so not taking).
Both! I don’t think I’ve been around since beginning of August, I’ve been so swamped with mah new job. And I have clinic at 9am so I really should be in bed but uh, I’ve got insomnia and I’m watching the magic school bus hehe
More internet hugs (if they’re wanted) for nonserviam. No great advice. Are you a Captain Awkward reader? I recommend.
sittie kitty
Haha XD I like that analogy.
Yay for jobs? I hope. I haven’t noticed your absence terribly since I’ve been on-and off as of late.
Sorry about your aunt being homophobic, btw :( interweb hugs offered.
Marie – Oh, I see. In that case, I just wish you good luck. I do think bringing your dad into the discussion is probably a good idea.
Yes, yay for jobs. I love my job, even at 3 in the morning when I’ve been up for 24 hrs.
And it’s okay, my aunt has her own set of problems so I can be forgiving about her shortcomings. Plus, since I said that stuff she’s never brought it up or even mentioned it again so that’s a bonus. But I will take interweb hugs :)
Go to bed then, we’ll still be here tomorrow :)
And recruit the guinea pigs. Cuz cute.
Cloudiah — I will not partake in that intervention as I am prone to arguing with myself (I find it quite productive actually)
Marie – “He did ask my sister to talk to her about it though :/ Which isn’t the best thing ever.”
Understatement of the year! That goes back to what I said him being your father and, frankly, needing to step up here. It’s his wife doing this, he’s the one in the direct relationship with her; it’s not Fade’s responsibility to do the talking here.
NonServiam – hi, and welcome! Have an Official Complimentary Welcome Package!
I wish I had something helpful to say about your situation. I’ll second the Captain Awkard advice, though.
NonServiam — I have nothing useful, besides *hugs*, but wanted to squee at another Latin nym. And *gasp* I think you’re the first to have not screwed it up in some form or fashion (I have a stray R and pecunium…well, yeah…not a male noun [declining issues aside, he rocks])
@kittehs
Yeah :/ No arguments there.
And I will actually try to go to bed now.
Good night all of you. It was fun talking, as always.
One more offering of free internet hugs for whoever wants them cuz I”m in a huggy mood.
<3
I’m fairly sure part of that is the waiting-for-the-shoe-to-drop that always happens with some people. Though it would do both of you some good for her to not say such things to you or in front of you, at all. You’re feeling nervy and tense around her because you never know when the next shitty thing will be said to you or about you.
Someone, dad, sis, a stranger in the street, the man in the moon, anyone, could try to persuade her that it’d be good to have the next three(?) visits/conversations entirely free of this kind of remark or joke or inference or hint or whatever word she might use to claim she’s not-actually-saying stuff. It’d let both of you work on developing conversational habits where this issue is completely off to the side, preferably off-limits.
For me, there’s another issue. In this house, we say “If you say it out loud, you’ve thought it twice” as a kind of reference to brain plasticity, self-reinforcing behaviours – because we’re both inclined to be a bit hard on ourselves at times. Doesn’t matter if you think it, just don’t reinforce it by saying it out loud. (Of course, this doesn’t apply if you’re talking to a therapist or having a deep and meaningful with a partner about how you really feel.) I very much doubt she knows how much she’s reinforcing and strengthening her own views rather than holding them as “just” an opinion by saying this stuff so frequently. The less you say it, the weaker – or at least the less strongly – you make the impact of those words and feelings on yourself. If it were truly “just an opinion” the subject wouldn’t come up very often at all.
I love that.
Tangent, but it’s an open thread, so: I’ve been seeing people treat “privilege” as an insult lately. I’m thinking this is a thing: I say something ass-headed, somebody points out that I’m transposing my ass and my head, and I feel defensive. If I’m completely lacking in cognitive powers, somebody pointing out stuff that I’m blindly assuming is true for everyone is actually NOT (pointing out privilege, in case that’s not clear), then they must be insulting me!
Yeah. I don’t get it. “How dare you call me privileged, you asshole!” O.o
Love this. :)
All sorts of good metaphors/similes in this thread.
My family members over in Colorado are safe once again. And in other good news, I managed to make a C program that isn’t completely useless and clunky. Yay! Now, onto tackling the beast known as Java…seriously, that language is scary.
@Argenti
Thanks! I actually picked up the phrase at a lecture about Joyce and portrayals of the devil in literature. Not being a huge Joyce fan, I kind of drifted in and out but the the phrase “Non Serviam” really struck me.
I just think it’s a really great proclamation about character and opting out of obedience. :)
Also the hugs are very appreciated.
Oh, but I really no nothing else about latin! Just that one phrase and anything I’ve picked up from random art and literature.
[Content note: victim-blaming against abuse victims, abuse apologia]
Ugh, some online acquaintances who call themselves feminists* were recently talking shit about abuse victims, how “stupid” victims are for staying in abusive relationships, how abused parents are intentionally harming their children by staying with their abusers, and how abuse victims who find it difficult to get out of abusive relationships are only facing hardship because they want to be abused. The fuck is wrong with some people these days? I know that feminists are capable of being horrible people just like everyone else, but I was really shocked by this because they were just so blunt, cold, and despicable.
*And they seem that way too on the surface, given their talk about rape culture, objectification, misogyny, anti-MRA stuff, and so on.
Ally, really the only way to understand that kind of naked victim blaming is that they need a model of the world where there’s a reason some people are victimized and some aren’t. A JUST world, where the reason some people are in pain is because those people deserve it.
Because if you view the world as basically just, and evidence keeps cropping up that people are suffering, then they HAVE to deserve it.
Otherwise the whole world is just chaos. And it could happen to THEM, even though they’ve done everything right.
And that would be too scary a world to live in.
The Just World fallacy is probably a big part of it. I think a plain old empathy failure may be another key component.
Quick update on my psychiatry whining from yesterday: After all the anxiety about potentially having to argue with my psychiatrist, he just asked me a few standard questions and wrote out a prescription refill. It’s like he totally forgot about the “This medication is over-prescribed” lecture he gave me last time. Weird, but whatever – I got my refill, so I’m happy.
I’m glad to hear your family in CO is okay, Ally! Any word on the farm and/or fowl?
@NonServiam: I don’t have any good advice either. All I can offer are Internet hugs. The baby photos seem to be having technical difficulties at the moment. :(
HUMONGOUS TRIGGER WARNING FOR PRACTICALLY EVERYTHING
Christ, there’s a guy in Arizona who’s running around drugging and branding his lovers in their vaginas.
There’s no indication that the man’s been arrested in that article, but I hope it comes soon if it hasn’t already.
AllyS: “Just World” beliefs are a double-edged sword. Not only does it make them shitty to people who need help, but it also can bite them in the butt later on.
I’ve run across a few commenters at Captain Awkward who had refused to recognize they were in an abusive relationship _because_ they believed themselves to be strong people who wouldn’t let something like that happen to them. As a result, some of them pushed away friends who saw the warning signs, and had less resources to draw on when they finally recognized what happened and needed to get the hell out.