You might not think that student orientation events would be an appropriate venue for chants celebrating the rape of underage girls. But such chants have apparently been something of a tradition at not one but two Canadian schools — and possibly more? Last week, a scandal erupted at the University of British Columbia after word got out that an orientation event at its Saunder School of Business had included a chant on this particular theme, led by orientation leaders from the Commerce Undergraduate Society.
According to one woman who disgustedly live-tweeted the event, it went something like this:
Y-O-U-N-G at UBC, we like ’em young, Y is for your sister, O is for oh so tight, U is for underage, N is for no consent, G is for go to jail.
Meanwhile, in Halifax, someone made a video — and posted it to YouTube — of student orientation leaders at Saint Mary’s University chanting a nearly identical chant.
Naturally, noted, er, human rights activist Paul Elam of A Voice for Men felt compelled to weigh in on the issue. He started off by expressing his deep disgust … with having to hear anything about the issue at all:
I swear if I read one more outraged “report” — aka feverish, paranoid rant — that twists something stupid into “evidence” of a “rape culture,” I am going to just lose it.
Yes, how outrageous that a chant joking about raping underage girls at an official school orientation event could possibly be construed as contributing in any way to rape culture! So sorry that your delicate sensitivities were offended, Paul.
After some more predictable histrionics on this “hyper-hipster-hysteria” from Mr. Elam, he got to his main point: blaming feminists for the rape chants.
No, really.
I am an older guy. I find it interesting, given that I came from a more “patriarchal” generation, that something like this when I was 18 would have been unthinkable. Why? Because other men, especially older ones, would have pulled those young people aside and said, “Hey, we don’t do that around here.” That would have been that, as they say, if it had even happened in the first place.
We can thank feminists for this. Through policy and governance they have eroded positive male role models, and male authority, right out of the culture. After feminist undermining of the family, removing fathers from the lives of children and demonizing male heroes, we have a population of young people, especially young men, growing more socially feral with each new generation.
And now what do we see? Feminists running around everywhere telling men they need to tell each other, “Don’t rape. Don’t abuse women. Don’t this. Don’t that.” …
You can’t assault the identity of half the human race, marginalize and disempower them, which is exactly what feminism has done, and expect anything in return but what you are getting.
In other words: You gals asked for it.
Paul Elam, you are rape culture.
And there’s something wrong with feeling like they were part of rock history, if any of them actually felt the way you thought they might?
Has it occurred to you that there might have been people there who’d followed LZ for ages, who might have had no other chance to see them, and were incredibly excited just for that reason? Plus, going back to what CassandraSaid: it’s a hard rock concert, it is NOT going to be like a classical concert! You already know this, so why harp on rock fans acting like rock fans?
@Cassandra – ha, Mr C with concerts sounds like me with historical-dress films or series. I avoid ’em for the most part, because I’m more likely to be appalled than pleased by the costuming.
I kind of love the idea of mark standing there all frowny because the rest of the audience are doing concert-going wrong and how dare they, and then wanting to give them a cookie because finally they’re doing things right for a moment!
(He knows this because telepathy.)
@ Kittehs
It’s just so funny, because he’s standing there all “this isn’t how it sounded on the record, right here there should be a…” and I’m going “honey, the only way to make it sound exactly the same is through excessive use of playback, and trust me, you don’t want that”.
markb — you are familiar with the first rule of holes right?
“I was annoyed because I had come there to hear the band, not the audience.”
That one I will half grant, in that it’s one thing I love about Emilie Autumn shows, besides the screaming when they first come on stage, and interactive bits, it is quiet. I mean, I have a live track that you can only tell is live because somebody sneezed.
Cassandra — is she the super nice person I’ve heard she is? Any of y’all over there meet her?
He should go see EA, Maggots will be happy to throw a baked good at him.
I would be kind of disappointed if I went to a live show that sounded exactly like the recorded version. What’s the point? (Not that Mr. C isn’t allowed to feel that way or anything!) I remember seeing a show by a musician who used a bunch of prerecorded tracks, and someone had brought a tiny child’s toy piano so he got that miked up and then improvised a little tune over the prerecorded tracks, and it was the most charming moment of the entire show even though it sounded nothing like the original.
I don’t get it either, and he’s such a grouch about it. I usually make a shaking-the-cane gesture at him and make jokes about wanting the kids to get off his lawn (he complains about shows being too crowded too). Also we have a couple of venues here where the acoustics are awful so shows always sound a bit weird.
(That one annoys me too, but it’s not the band’s fault.)
Oh and EA sounds better live, I need a few weeks after her shows before I can listen to her records and not miss the emotion poured into her shows.
/plugging Emilie Autumn, but really, go listen! Start with Fight Like A Girl, then Opheliac
Thing is, some albums you literally can’t reproduce live without a shit-ton of backing tapes. It’s those ones where my eyes start rolling at the “but why doesn’t it sound like the record” stuff.
Argenti – point taken. Listening to Emilie Autumn now. Cool!
Oh my, Mr C should take a real cane with him so he can shake it at the stage. “You kids aren’t playing it right!” I’m half thinking of him wanting to know why Mike Oldfield never did Tubular Bells live. 😛
I had another reason (apart from noise levels and expense) for not going to Mr S’s concerts out here: he’s 63 and he simply can’t belt out the songs like he could thirty years ago, however fit he is. I know there are too many drawbacks (for me) to make up for the pleasure of seeing The Boss aka The Photo Donor live, so I don’t go … it isn’t that complicated. 🙂
RE: daboys1215
Third I was talking about the garbage that feminism was, is and always will be
Nah. I like being able to vote, own property, and press charges against my rapist. I believe women should be able to do that.
This story (and the lack of guidance) is one of those things that feminism is responsible for.
No, the assholes who CREATED that slogan is responsible for it. You say I don’t read, but you’re the one saying this shit, buddy.
RE: concerts
I generally don’t go, because I’m sensitive to crowds and loud noises, which pretty much mean no concerts for me. I got to see Jason Webley at a quiet little venue once, and that was a BLAST, though. I have a big stack of Bruce Springsteen’s live performances, and I love those, but I doubt I would’ve enjoyed actually BEING at those performances.
Exactly. There are some shows I won’t go to because I just don’t want to deal with how violent I know the pit will be. If 95% of the audience want the show to go a certain way, and I know I don’t like that kind of show, it makes more sense for me to skip it than to go and spent the whole time shaking my head disapprovingly at everyone else.
So Mark, I’m asking this honestly: Why would you say a statement like this? I don’t know how you intended it, but it really sounds like “I have a massive superiority complex but no actual taste.” Which may well be true, but isn’t really the sort of thing that most people would announce publicly.
Regarding concerts, I’m iffy about them because the first one I went to ended up with me accidentally getting stuck in a mosh pit while I was in a very drunk state. The following morning I had large bruises on my body. Granted, it was a punk rock concert, but because of that experience I’m not comfortable with concerts.
Nope, not implicitly victim-blaming at all.
To clarify for anyone just coming in now, it was the fact that mark’s earlier comments appeared to be conflating groupies, women who happen to be really into music, and 10 year old girls with crushes on pop stars that sent me into go-for-the-throat mode.
Also, for bonus beyond-feminism-101 points, if women who’re specifically after sex and/or eye candy are more interested in musicians who’re really good looking or charismatic than musicians who’re technical geniuses, why is that a bad thing? Try to explain without invoking any double standards or weird sexist ideas that are a more polite way of saying “gina tingles, ew”, I dare you.
You know what else about this is very rape culture-y? The underlying notion that abusive things don’t happen because people decide to do them, but because other people don’t do enough to stop them.
Wow, just read this poetry:
“Like you said, men used to do just what feminists seem to want yet their movement is what destroyed it to begin with. As usual, feminists cannot accept accountability for their pathetic nonsense. Feminists, You reap what you sow.”
The person who posted this is a 13-year-old shit lord, right? Fourteen tops. Also has never passed an actual history class or read any actual feminist texts. Have some milk and go to bed, sonny. Dream of a world where all women died in some kind of apocalypse.
Ally, some concerts are very quiet. We’ve sat in on classical performances by local music students and such, and no bruising occurred there! And that Jason Webley concert was a lovely mix of audience participation without ever being too overstimulating for me. (There was probably about sixty people there, tops?)
Also, coming from a marching band background, I never quite understood the ‘music for the girls’ viewpoint. But then again, we marched around in circles on a parking lot in the heat of Texas summer, wearing silly hats and wooly uniforms. We were NOT known as the sex fiends of the high school.
Shiraz – he’s probably rageventing into his computer because his mom just sent him to bed without his dinner.
RE: Ally S
Victim blaming? I’m blaming feminists for being responsible for the complete lack of guidance these types of young men have. Accept accountability for your actions. i know feminists won’t since you aren’t capable of being a responsible adult but it’s a nice thought.
RE: LBT
The suffragettes (not feminists) lobbied for the right to vote. men (namely congress, if you live in the US) gave it to them.
Women have ALWAYS owned property. They even owned slaves. Your complete lack of knowledge of history is very telling of a movement knee deep in their own victimhood.
You don’t know how to read. Feminists usually don’t. Your mental capacity is less than that of a 5 year old. What Elam said and what I said is that because of feminism there is no one to guide them away from that. No parental guidance at all. That is the fault of feminists when they removed fathers from their children’s lives. Now you are paying the price for it.
Katz – because I like to poke fun at myself. Probably some kind of defense mechanism. And it’s not so much that I have a massive superiority complex as that I tend to focus on things that annoy me, which is actually starting to bother me since I’ve become aware of it (but habits are hard to break, especially mental ones).
RE: Shiraz
Oh lovely. Another feminist who can’t read.
Let’s see, concerts I’ve been to …
An early music group whose name I forget. Much laughage, especially when the audience did the medieval version of a conga line.
The Seekers’ reunion/farewell #268953. Also much laughage from a much older audience, such as when they did a medley of songs that weren’t theirs but people always thought were.
Loreena McKennitt – not that noisy, it was in the Concert Hall, which isn’t exactly your mosh pit venue.
The Chieftains – lots of clapping and a bit of whistling now and then. Like the Seekers, it was at the Palais, which isn’t built for lots of cavorting.
Not one of ’em was dead quiet, though.
markb – changing thought patterns can be a challenge, for sure. I went through months of cognitive behavioural therapy recently to work on that sort of thing (it was at stress/anxiety level).