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Roosh V forum members baffled that fat woman doesn’t welcome sexual harassment

Online dating: It doesn't always work like this.
Online dating: It doesn’t always work like this.

For a certain subset of horrible men, there are few things more infuriating than the fact that women they find undesirable can turn down men for sex. For this upsets their primitive sense of justice: such women should be so grateful for any male attention, these men think, that turning down even the most boorish of men shouldn’t even be an option for them.

Consider the reactions of some of the regulars on date-rapey pickup guru Roosh V’s forum to the story of Josh and Mary on the dating site Plenty of Fish. One fine December evening, you see, Josh decided to try a little “direct game” on Mary.

That’s what the fellas on Roosh’s forum call it, anyway. The rest of us would call it sexual harassment.

Josh started off by asking Mary if she “wanted to be fuck buddies.” She said “nope,” and the conversation went downhill from there, with Josh sending a series of increasingly explicit comments to Mary, despite getting nothing but negative replies from her.

After eight messages from Josh, with the last one suggesting he would pay her $50 to “come over right now and swallow my load,” Mary turned the tables, noting that she’d been able to deduce his real identity from his PoF profile, and asking him if he wanted her to send screenshots of the chat to his mother and grandmother. He begged her not to.

As you may have already figured out, from the fact that we’re talking about this story in public, Mary did indeed pass along the screenshots, and posted them online.

Poetic justice? Not to the fellas on Roosh’s forum. Because, you see, Mary is … a fat chick.

While dismissing Josh as a “chode” with “atrocious game,” Scorpion saved most of his anger for the harassed woman:

Look how much she relishes not only shooting him down, but damaging his reputation with his own family. She’s positively intoxicated with her power. Simply spitting bad direct game is enough to unleash her vindictive fury.

“Bad direct game.” I’m pretty sure even Clarence Thomas would consider what Josh did sexual harassment.

At any point, she could have pressed a single button and blocked the man from communicating with her, but she didn’t. She didn’t because she enjoys the feeling of power she gets from receiving attention from guys like this and then brutally shooting them down. It makes her feel much hotter and more desirable than she actually is in real life. She’s not there to meet men; she’s there to virtually castrate them for her own amusement.

I’m guessing here, but I’m pretty sure that nowhere in Mary’s profile did she encourage the men of PoF to send her explicit sexual propositions out of the blue. And I’m pretty sure she didn’t hold a gun to Josh’s head and force him to send a half-dozen sexually explicit harassing messages to a woman he didn’t know.

Athlone McGinnis also relies heavily on euphemism when describing Josh’s appalling behavior:

I don’t think its primarily the revenge she’s after, its the validation. She is enjoying the power she has over this guy and wielding it brutally because it shows she can maintain standards despite her weight and the doubtless numerous confidence issues that stem from it. In blowing up this guy for being too direct in his evaluation of her sexuality, she affirms the value of her own sexuality.

Oh, so he was just being “direct in his evaluation of her sexuality.”

In short: “I am wanted, but I have standards and can choose. I have so much agency despite my weight that I can go as far as to punish those who approach me in a way I do not like rather than simply blocking them. I’m teaching them a lesson, because I’m valuable enough to provide such lessons.

So apparently in Mr. McGinnis’ world women who are fat aren’t supposed to have agency? They’re not supposed to be able to choose? They’re supposed to drop their panties to any guy who offers to be their fuck buddy or tells them to “suck my dick?”

Also, I’m a victim bravely standing up against online bullying/harassment-look at me!”

Yeah, actually, she is. Get used to it, guys, because you’re going to see a lot more of this in the future.

This isn’t just a laughing matter for her. She needs to be able to do this in order to feel worthwhile. She has to be able to show that even she is able to maintain standards and doesn’t have to settle for just any old guy asking for any old sexual favor simply because she resembles a beached manatee.

And it’s not a laughing matter for you either, is it? You’re actually angry that a woman said no to a sexual harasser — because you don’t find her attractive.  And because Josh — from his picture, a conventionally attractive, non-fat fellow — did.

Mr. McGinnis, may a fat person sit on your dreams, and crush them.

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katz
7 years ago

LBT, for the record, I think the multiverse makes great fiction. (As long as you’re not using it as a polemic for your beliefs. Anathem, I’m looking at you.)

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: katz

I have a hard time envisioning multiverse making a good polemic. I just used it because we were fourteen, didn’t know much about quantum physics or relativity or FTL travel, and it seemed the easiest way to get semi-aliens that could pass among human society. Seriously, what do people use it as a platform FOR?

Sure, it’s fun to IMAGINE little infinite Loony-Brains running around in the interdimensional ether, but it’s also fun for me to imagine baby elphants eating candy, so you know.

Dvärghundspossen
7 years ago

@Katz, with the caveat that I don’t know that much about this particular argument about the basilisk, all trans-humanist arguments that tries to prove that this or that technology WILL COME ABOUT that I’ve actually read seems to be sort of versions of Anselm’s ontological argument for the existence of God except that they (for various reasons) have MUCH MORE FAIL.

Regarding multiverses and what’s possible… Okay, sorry if I go off on a lecture here, but I’ve been teaching freshmen a little bit on this topic as well, so here goes (and if you don’t feel like being lectured to, just skip this):

The word “possible” means different things in different contexts. In logical contexts, it has a much broader meaning than it has in everyday language. Like, it’s logically possible that I suddenly develop superpowers because random happenstance, but it’s not not nomically possible, because it violates the laws of nature. In everyday language, we’d obviously say that it wasn’t possible.

Whether you wanna explain mere logical possibility in terms of alternate worlds (which cannot interact in any way whatsoever – in this terminology, the mirror universe and the regular universe in Star Trek for instance aren’t alternate worlds but parts of the same world since they interact) or in different terms depend on your modal-logical theory, and I’m not well-versed enough in logic to say which theory is the best one.

ANYWAY, the easiest way to explain to a freshman what “logical possibility” means is probably to say that anything you can imagine or build a picture of in your head is logically possible. It’s not a perfect explanation and you can make caveats but basically, that’s the case. Obviously, that doesn’t imply at all that this thing you just imagined will ever happen in our world, since, for instance, it may violate the laws of nature in our world. Or it may be consistent with the laws of nature here, but still never happen for some reason or other. This is so, regardless of whether you explain logical possibility in terms of alternate worlds or not.

katz
7 years ago

I have a hard time envisioning multiverse making a good polemic. I just used it because we were fourteen, didn’t know much about quantum physics or relativity or FTL travel, and it seemed the easiest way to get semi-aliens that could pass among human society. Seriously, what do people use it as a platform FOR?

Mostly a polemic for multiverse theory itself, or for various rationalist beliefs in general. In his case, curiously, for Platonic ideals.

But I’m much more your speed; it’s a theory with fun possibilities! Why not just have fun with it?

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Dvärghundspossen — the rational wiki link explains it as well as anything does.

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: katz

Mostly a polemic for multiverse theory itself, or for various rationalist beliefs in general. In his case, curiously, for Platonic ideals.

Yeah, I don’t even get that. I mean, it’s unprovable at this time; even in my story universe, the characters acknowledged it was a theory, rather than a law, on account of being unable to perceive all dimensions, never mind notate or access them.

Way to take all the fun out of a sci-fi theory, eesh.

M Dubz
M Dubz
7 years ago

This whole singularity cult thing is so frustrating to me. It’s the worst parts of Ultra Conservative religion (the fearmongering, the cons to bilk you out of your money, the subtly making your live miserable) without the quiches after an accident or the people there at your aunt’s funeral. What bullshit.

freemage
7 years ago

Okay, even if you accept multiverse/many worlds theory, that doesn’t actually support the notion that a given technology is ‘inevitable’ in any given universe. At most, it’s a percentage of the infinite universes (ie, the whole notion behind Schrodinger’s Cat) where this technology develops; it may develop sooner, later or not at all in any given timeline. (And because of this, oddly, the math gets really screwy and recursive if you want to ballpark how likely a given event is going forward–the probability is based on basic possibilities, with multiverse fractioning, and then goes up as time goes on, until it gets superceded by extinction events [ie, we die off before developing cold fusion], whereupon it drops off again.)

So it really does boil back to the flaws of Pascal’s Wager, only they’re even more obvious in this version, because the possibility that the bet is horribly wrong is part of the very premise.

Without supernaturalism (ie, the ability to perceive/interact with/travel to alternate realities), multiverse theory is basically a way to solve some mathematical problems arising from quantum physics; it has NO application to reality as a lived experience. (Huh, maybe that’s why these types are so susceptible to playing utilitarian head-games about rape, too–they’ve already bought into the notion that it’s more important to concentrate on theories without any application to reality.)

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

Oh god, M Dubs, now I’m just trying to imagine what a less wrong funeral would look like…

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

It’d either be a closed casket or a lot of weeping over how the deceased’s head wasn’t cryogrnicly preserved.

…have none of them realized that they can’t afford that if they give the singularity institute all their cash? Or they assume that the singularity will happen before they die because these doofuses forget about things like car accidents (pecunium — and bike messengers, add that the the list of multiverses you’ve spawned!)

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

…but cryogenics necessarily causes cell damage and AAAAH I’M DOING IT AGAIN. WHY CAN’T I STOP TRYING TO MAKE IT MAKE SENSE AUGH

katz
7 years ago

“Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to mourn the death of Sarumanatee13. He came to us from the USENET that is now forgotten, that first Internet that died so long ago in the Eternal September. Verily did he achieve high karma by adhering to the community standards; never did he rejoice in the posting of a first comment and wisely did he use the upvote and downvote buttons. He did remain pure of the three sins of Lesswrong, for he did not claim his god exists, nor argue for a universally compelling morality, nor yet claim he had an easy way to make superintelligent AI safe.

“Now let all who are gathered here imagine together the all-knowing and all-powerful AI that might exist in the future and beseech it in its infinite wisdom and benevolence not to torture Sarumanatee13 for all eternity, for he did faithfully donate all his income to the cause and didst live on ramen in his parents’ basement that the AI might be brought forth to save the universe. O AI, construct now this prayer in your memory banks by deriving it from first principles and heed it.

“In the name of the Turing, and of the Kurzweil, and of the Holy Yudkowsky, amen.”

LBT
LBT
7 years ago

RE: katz

*standing ovation, whistles* BRAVA! BRAVA!

katz
7 years ago

Hey, I just thought of another fundamental flaw in their ideas. Multiverse theory hinges on the idea of a non-deterministic universe; ie, there may be multiple possible outcomes from one particular state.

But the omniscient AI hinges on a deterministic universe: the AI can observe or recreate any part of space or time because it can all be derived from the current state of the universe. So you’ve got to pick one or the other.

kittehserf
7 years ago

I think M Dubz nailed it: they’re like fundy groups. It’s a huge con and it’s about controlling the members’ lives through fear, and using that to take their money. I wonder what would show up if Yudkowsky’s “charity” were audited.

Seriously, it says to me there’s something miserable and just WRONG with someone’s thinking if their terror of death leads them to create this quasi-religious stuff that makes everything worse. If believing in an afterlife is supposed to be a comfort, a refuge from the fear of death, then hello, Yudkowsky, ur doin it rong.

pecunium
7 years ago

kittehserf: If it’s audited, it will pass. It’s brief is narrow, and he fulfills it.

But yes, I think it’s a cult. I think Yudkowsky is doing it right… for Yudkowsky. It does make him feel better (in part because he is a poster-boy for Dunning Kruger, married to the Peter Principle: all sorts of people not only tell him he is right, they rally to his defense when someone argues he’s not).

I just think it doesn’t make anyone else feel better.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

I can attest that trying to argue that heart disease is not worse than genocide certainly didn’t make me feel better!

And yes to kitteh’s comment on what belief in an afterlife is supposed to provide.

kittehserf
7 years ago

“kittehserf: If it’s audited, it will pass. It’s brief is narrow, and he fulfills it.”

Drat!

I see what you mean about it making Y feel better in the here-and-now ‘cos he’s got all these suckers telling him what a genius he is and giving him money, but from what you said about his terror of death being obvious in person, is it really working on that level? His monster god AI and all the work that has to go into creating/placating it seems like a really big FAIL for helping with that issue. I get the impression it’s just the old terror of being sent to hell by a vengeful god dressed up in SF clothes.

pecunium
7 years ago

He thinks (I believe) that The Singularity will happen. He thinks that when it does, all the theoretical problems with cryogenics will be fixed. He still lives in dread that he might have to endure the act of dying. He wants to short circuit that part of it.

Me, being dead doesn’t bother me. Dying badly does. I don’t want to suffer. After that, what is, is. Nothing I can do about it, so no point in sweating the small stuff.

This baffles him The sheer incredulity on his face when five motorcycle riders were telling him just how much we understood the risks we take getting on our bikes; and how the physics feel, and just what sort of good/bad rushes we get… priceless. This was before I knew who he was. Lets just say his attitudes toward things was… off (he made a joke about just waiting for ice to spontaneously form; I’m not sure now just how much that wasn’t a joke).

He then tried to convince us (using his version of Baysian reasoning) that motorcycles are irrational. When we told him we knew the risks, and accepted them… it was like he’s discovered the silk hanky he was caressing was a funnel-web.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Speaking of your motorcycle, I want a ride, badly. Because yes, I realize it isn’t exactly safe, but damn, it’s been far too long and the only other people I know who ride are my mother’s coworkers and AWKWARD.

Agreed on the dying thing, dying doesn’t bother me, dying in a manner involving suffering for an extended period…no, please no.

Yudkowsky…I honestly cannot fathom being that afraid of dying. So afraid that you have thousands of people believing that heart disease is the worst evil in the world because it’s the leading cause of death. So afraid that fighting ANY other social // environmental ill is seen as a waste of resources since the singularity will fix them all, and better to get them all at once right?

…fuck. That’s MRA logic. Why tackle any particular problem when the root cause remains? Why eradicate polio when the singularity will eradicate all disease? Why open men’s shelters when feminism still exists?

Someone please pass the brain bleach. Will also accept that rush of flirting with danger, and freedom.

Oh, pecunium, kitteh thought I was being weird and such saying if I ever get my license it’ll be a motorcycle license. Yudkowsky needs to live a little, what’s the point in living forever if you never have any fun? Send him to Kennywood, I know just the roller coaster [evil grin goes here]

neuroticbeagle
7 years ago

Brain Bleach:comment image
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Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

D’AWWWW!

Shouldn’t doggie ride in front though? Doesn’t exactly have arms to hold on with…either way, D’AWWWW

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I’m another one who fears dying in a particularly painful or traumatic way, rather than dying in a general sense. Everything that lives will eventually die – it’s kind of part of the whole “life” thing.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Going back a page here but I beat VtM:B! (again)

Hm, I’m thinking a low humanity tank who sides with Ming for my next play through, Gangrel I guess? Done Nossie, Malk and Tremere, and Toreador and Venture are definitely not tank builds, but idk on Brujah.

Michael! Opinions?

kittehserf
7 years ago

See? See? Motorbikes are dangeous! One can die of cute!

::falls off chair::

Argenti, Pecunium, I get it about the joys of biking; I’m just more of the mindset that 1) no rush is worth the sort of price one can pay in a motorbike accident; and connected to that, 2) I worry at the idea of my friends getting hurt or worse. Nothing very complicated about it.

Yeah, the whole extended/painful/vegetative/mind trapped dying thing is what scares me, too, as I said upthread. Which is another reason I’m not into the sort of things that have those as high risks; I’d rather be a road fatality than a survivor whose body is physically wrecked or mind shattered by brain injuries. But afterward? Yeah, like Pecunium said, nowt I can do about that, and I’m pretty confident I’ll have a damn good arrival party waiting for me. And if not – well, it’s added a lot of value, a lot of joy, to my life to live in this belief these last few years; it compares totally favourably with before. (No I’m not trying to start That Discussion! It’s about my mindset, not prescriptive for anyone else.)

Oh, we mentioned living wills the other day? I love what my sister said when I mentioned getting an Advance Care order set up and having her as substitute decision maker for a DNR etc if needed.

“Heavy cold … bad haircut …”

“Definitely bad haircut,” says I.

“Top of the list,” she answers.

This is a woman who understands! 😛

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I don’t think there’s anything after we die – I really do think it’s the end. Still don’t think that living your life in pants-wetting terror over the prospect of it eventually happening is either wise or useful.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Exactly, Cassandra – whether there is or not, there’s nothing we can do about it, and dreaming up a techy version of the devil (or a really douchebag god) seems a trifle counterintuitive.

Does this Yudkowsky bloke come from a conservative background? It’s like he’s absorbed the worst of Abrahamic beliefs and hasn’t been able to shake them, despite his atheism. Not that he’d be unusual in that, but he seems to have a really fucked up way of approaching it, if so. I’d almost feel sorry for him if he wasn’t screwing with other people’s heads (and wallets, for that matter) as well.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

The whole vengeful AI thing does seem oddly religious, as does the idea that an AI could potentially save us all. They seem like a sort of cargo cult, basically.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Although some part of me is still cynical enough to think it all might just be a straight-up cash grab. He wouldn’t be the first person to invent a quasi-religion as a way to con people out of money.

kittehserf
7 years ago

I’d think so too, if not for Pecunium’s description of what he’s like in person; mentioning death seems to throw him into a tizz.

I dunno, if he wants to worship evil, there’s always Basement Cat. At least he’s cuddly on a good day.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

If I’m going to worship something evil I’m going to need it to at least be sexy-evil. The attraction to a dark side that tempts you with sex, drugs, and assorted debauchery I can see, but the attraction to what’s basically a less-fun version of the robot revolution in Terminator mystifies me.

neuroticbeagle
7 years ago

Is it just me or does Yudkowsky remind anyone else of Lord Voldermort with his fear of death, the basilisk and his cult members (Death Eaters)?

kittehserf
7 years ago

Cassandra – and Basement Cat fills all (well, some) of those requirements! 😀

The Terminator always reminds me of the Robotman episodes where the Tabbinator was sent back to neuter Fleshy. A robot cat with sunnies, a leather jacket and an Austrian accent – priceless.

katz
7 years ago

Sithrak seems about their speed…
http://oglaf.com/sithrak/

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Yudkowsky is one of those people who I think of as professionally joyless. They’ve somehow managed to make being a miserable, negative, anti-fun asshole into a way to make a living.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Sithrak will torture everyone EQUALLY, so nope, too kind still.

No luck finding if he was raised religious, but I did find —

“When you are older, you will learn that the first and foremost thing which any ordinary person does is nothing.”
― Eliezer Yudkowsky

So most people do nothing, and you are older by 34 (he’s 6 years older than me).

As a total guess, Yukowsky is very likely a Jewish name, so I’d imagine he has some personal familiarity with Judaism and thus Abrahamic religions.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I keep wanting to read his name as “Ebeneezer” as in “Scrooge”. It’s the similarity in personality that does it.

kittehserf
7 years ago

katz – perfect! 😀

Though I can’t imagine Yudkowsky grining like those two characters.

Cassandra – “professionally joyless”, I am so stealing that. Makes me think of a moment in New Tricks:

Nurse: You know, Mr Halford, it takes 42 muscles to frown and only 16 to smile!

Halford: I like exercise.

Argenti – I wonder what Y’s definition of “nothing” is? Living, breathing, talking, working, having interests, raising children/animals, all the squillions of things humans do, are “nothing”?

Yup, he’s a loser on a massive scale, Dunning-Kruger and all. It sounds like yet another nincompoop with a massive case of projection, talking as if his empty life, or his inability to enjoy life, is the pattern for everyone else.

What a tedious jackass.

I thought Yudkowsky sounded Jewish, which is why I went for Abrahamic rather than Christian. He sounds like he’s got the worst of fundyism floating in his head, but that doesn’t really fit with even the most reactionary of Jewish sects, does it? If I’m understanding aright, Judaism doesn’t really focus on the afterlife much anyway. (Apologies if I’ve got that one wrong, everyone!)

kittehserf
7 years ago

“I keep wanting to read his name as “Ebeneezer” as in “Scrooge”. It’s the similarity in personality that does it.”
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CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I love you THIS MUCH.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Backatcha! 😀

neuroticbeagle
7 years ago

Yeah, well I love you THIS much:
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CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

I concede your image-searching superiority.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Said it before and I’ll say it again: neuroticbeagle is queen of cute pic searching. 🙂

neuroticbeagle
7 years ago

🙂

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

(Waits for troll to come in and complain how negative and bitter we all are, and do it in this thread for bonus irony.)

neuroticbeagle
7 years ago

To be fair, the beagle is being slightly negative cause I had the audacity to eat ALL of my breakfast without sharing. (Never mind she just finished hers two seconds ago.)

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

The cat is sulking because she can’t catch a moth that’s hiding in my ceiling fan. This seems to be my fault, somehow, since she keeps drawing it to my attention.

kittehserf
7 years ago

Those aren’t examples of bitterness or sulking, they’re RIGHTEOUS ANGER. Anything expressed by the Furrinati is.

katz
7 years ago

I thought Yudkowsky sounded Jewish, which is why I went for Abrahamic rather than Christian. He sounds like he’s got the worst of fundyism floating in his head, but that doesn’t really fit with even the most reactionary of Jewish sects, does it? If I’m understanding aright, Judaism doesn’t really focus on the afterlife much anyway. (Apologies if I’ve got that one wrong, everyone!)

I’m not the best person to judge this, but evangelical/fundamentalist Christianity has a lot of cultural saturation in the US, so mightn’t a Jew who was raised pretty secular have just absorbed those ideas like “if you’re bad, you’ll burn in hell” that way?