Should gaming be a “safe space” for nerdy dudes who hate women? The Men’s Rights perspective
I’m back from a brief vacation in Migraineland, and thinking about the ways in which Men’s Rights Activists love to appropriate the language of feminism and other progressive movements, usually in ways that are face-palmingly ass-backwards.
Take this recent discussion on the Men’s Rights subreddit of the dire threat of “fake gamer girls” invading the “male space” of gaming. The generically named guywithaccount sets up the discussion with this post:
![I want to talk about "fake geek girls" (self.MensRights) submitted 9 days ago by guywithaccount For those of you who don't know about this, there's a bit of a controversy in what I'll call the geek community. Apparently, when women attend geek conventions (that is, those celebrating e.g. video games, comic books, sci-fi and fantasy), some men accuse them of being "fake geeks" or demanding that they prove their "geek cred" by correctly answering trivia questions made up on the spot. Here's one article (of many) that talks about it: [1] http://bookviewcafe.com/blog/2013/08/08/the-fake-geek-girl-nonsense/ My concern for this issue is that, like anything else that involves gender, feminists and feminist sympathizers are attempting to dominate the discussion and frame the whole thing from a feminist and gynocentric perspective. The prevailing analysis might be summed up as "geek culture is deeply misogynistic, and the people complaining about fake geeks are just sad little losers who hate women." IMO, the geek subculture has provided a somewhat-safe space for many men who have been snubbed by the rest of society, where they are not expected to prove their value to each other by carving notches in a bedpost or exemplifying traditional masculine traits. The increase in mainstream appeal and female participation over the past decade or so threatens the safety and exclusivity of this space, and the backlash from male geeks is a somewhat-predictable response to the invasion of their space. Of course, there are few spaces just for men, and when someone tries to create or preserve one, they're accused of misogyny. I suspect that some of you don't give a crap about any of this and see the whole thing as petty, but realize that it's not happening in a vacuum. I believe it's merely a symptom of the fact that men have almost no voice in gender discussions and their needs are routinely denied or ignored.](http://manboobz.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/fakegeek.png?w=604)
Now, there is a teensy bit of gold in this pile of bullshit: the notion of a “safe space,” where oppressed people can come forward and discuss their issues without fear of being talked over or shut down by those outside their group — who have more power in the world and who may not have their best interests at heart (or who may just be Blabby McBlabbypants types).
But there are a couple of giant problems with this notion when it comes to gamer dudes declaring gaming a “safe space” for men. The first is that, despite lingering resentments over being “snubbed” in high school or wherever — evident in the OP and in comments throughout the discussion — these guys are not actually an oppressed people by any measure that really matters.
Indeed, many of them — as tech dudes in a male-dominated tech world — are in fact in fairly privileged positions. For them to claim they need a “safe space” to protect themselves from the evils of “fake gamer girls” is a bit like Klan members claiming they need a “safe space” to protect themselves from blacks, Jews and Catholics. (Which is more or less what Klan members have argued over the years, albeit in less PC language.) No, I’m not claiming that all MRAs are the equivalent of hood-wearing Klan members. Only some of them are.
The second problem with the “game world as safe space for men” aregument is that YOU CAN’T JUST DECLARE BIG CHUNKS OF THE WORLD TO BELONG TO MEN. Yes, men dominate the gaming world in sheer numbers, both as game-makers and game-players. (While women make up nearly half of all game players — 47% — men tend to dominate the “serious” games that many geek dudes claim are the only ones that really count.) But gaming doesn’t “belong” to men any more than, say, novel-reading “belongs” to women — even though surveys suggest that women make up a staggering 80% of the fiction market in much of the English-speaking world.
Yep, that’s right: Women dominate “noveling” much more dramatically than men dominate gaming. Yet you don’t find women denouncing “fake noveler boys” or declaring that the male brain isn’t wired to understand the subtleties of written fiction.
No, in fact men are actively welcomed into book clubs. And my best friend, a woman, has spent much of the 18 or so years or our friendship trying to get me to read this novel or that novel, though over the years she’s only succeeded in getting me to read maybe one or two of her suggestions, which were pretty good, I have to admit. (I do plan to read some of the others, really.)
If you’re a socially awkward guy and want a safe space to discuss that, find a therapist, find a support group. Don’t pick on women gamers and pretend this is somehow your right because you’re oppressed as a socially awkward guy.
Anyway, here are some other dumb comments from the Reddit thread. YetAnotherCommenter warns feminists that they may lose some powerful allies if they continue acting so feministy.
Speaking of nerds who can’t get laid — which we weren’t but which these guys keep bringing up (and identifying themselves as) again and again — guia7ri seems to harbor some lingering resentments from high school, and who better to take that out on than attractive geeky women?
Hey MRAs, if you wonder why feminists sometimes describe MRAs as bitter men who hate women because they can’t get laid, it’s because MRAs like gui7ri so often EXPLICITLY DECLARE THEMSELVES BITTER MEN WHO HATE WOMEN BECAUSE THEY CAN’T GET LAID.
Meanwhile Byuku blames it all on evil feminists pretending to be geeks in order to make trouble. Because that’s what feminists do.
That’s how they get you!
EDIT: Added a sentence to temper and clarify my assertion that men “dominate” gaming.
Posted on August 20, 2013, in a woman is always to blame, all about the menz, antifeminism, are these guys 12 years old?, bullying, creep-shaming, dozens of upvotes, entitled babies, evil women, facepalm, female beep boop, geek girls, imaginary oppression, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, no girls allowed, oppressed men, reddit, straw feminists, video games and tagged antifeminism, fake geek girls, gaming, geek girls, men's rights, misogyny, MRA, reddit, video games. Bookmark the permalink. 1,189 Comments.
Isn’t it strange that the “rejects of the gender system” seem to be the most interested in perpetuating it? Powerful allies, indeed.
Also, is gaming really dominated by one gender? Last I heard, women were ~48% of gamers, although for all I know I could be making that number up.
Too bad these guys can’t just be “fake” assholes.
“I protest how they interpret the fact that things aren’t always about them all the time as bigotry and hatred.”
Oh, the irony. That’s one of the funniest sentences I’ve ever read coming from an MRA.
The very CONCEPT of a fake geek girl enrages me so much, I’ma just copy/paste my tumblr post on the subject.
Whenever I hear some asshole gamer whining about how women aren’t real gamers, I want to hiss in their ear, “Roberta Williams.”
Whenever I hear some asshole gamer claiming that female protagonists in video games don’t sell, I want to say, “ROBERTA WILLIAMS.”
Whenever I hear some asshole gamer acting like his balls are getting chopped off because his sacred male space is being invaded by women, I just want to ram every CD-ROM of my Roberta Williams Anthology game collection down his throat in front of a mammoth blow-up picture of her in front of her computer circa 1978, all the while bellowing, “ROBERTA WILLIAMS, MOTHERFUCKER! ROBERTA! FUCKING! WILLIAMS!”
@Tulgey
I’m pretty sure it’s actually more than 50% of gamers are women. (Middle-aged women is a HUGE demographic). Except that if it’s a game that more women play than men, it doesn’t count. Far more men play the games that far more men play. QED.
It’s more in some communities. What makes it tough to gauge is that women often avoid identifying as female because they’re afraid they’ll be harassed and pestered if they do. Which, from what I’ve seen is sadly accurate.
I added a sentence to temper and clarify my comment on men “dominating” gaming. The figure I found for the percentage of women in gaming is 47%. Though the angry gamer dudes always claim that whatever games these women are playing somehow don’t count as real games.
Oh the irony, whining about wanting a “safe space” where “they are not expected to prove their value to each other by carving notches on a bedpost” – but tell ‘em women aren’t sexthings for their amusement and they’re full of rage.
(Middle-aged women is a HUGE demographic).
Lest anyone think this is shocking, my mom and my aunt were the big gamers of the older generation. Our dad never played anything but nethack; our ma and aunt played that, old Sierra games, and would have all-night Myst marathons. My aunt still plays Civilization and a few puzzle/Bedazzled like games that I don’t know.
I admit to having my issues with the concept of a safe space, and tend to sneer at them.
Also, the fake geek girl phenomenon is just… ASININE to me. Back when someone else here was in charge, she was a geek girl and geek guys were constantly whining about the lack of girls in their group. (Off the top of my head, I remember at least FOUR guys who tried to make us their Manic Pixie Dream Girl. God, the amount of shitty poetry we had to listen to…) And now that there ARE geek girls in their group, they’re whining about THAT! Christ, guys, get over yourselves!
Why the denial that most things “Geek” are mainstream now?
If you quiz a woman for existing in a “Geek” environment you ARE a sad loser.
i’m pretty sure the usual comeback regarding the percentages is that they argue against the inclusion of mobile games or anything considered “casual”. aka total bullshit.
in fact, i’m pretty sure i commented in that very thread and got a mountain of that boilerplate “real gamer” bullshit.
Shit, I AM a casual gamer–I rarely enjoy gaming unless I’m doing it with other people. Me, Sneak, and a buddy of ours have been playing ’90s adventure games every weekend for a while now. (So far, we’ve played through Grim Fandango, the Curse of Monkey Island, Laura Bow: The Dagger of Amon Ra, and now we’re working on Zork: Nemesis.) We’re the definition of casual.
On the other hand, my aunt and mom would stay up literally all night playing Myst games. Anyone who thinks they weren’t true gamers can say hello to my ass.
Girls have all the power in high school since what football team?
Misogynits geek’s safe space: somewhere he can wank away to thoughts of CGI images and not be put to the bother of treating women as people.
*Misogynist.
Though misogynits seems apt.
Weirdly, they pride themselves on being different from the high school jocks who allegedly made them feel inferior. Except, what kind of underdog punishes other demos for having the same hobbies as that they do?
hah, writing a research article on pretty much this exact topic, examining the ways sexism and prejudice are understood and expressed within online gaming environments.
all the arguments posted from the reddit are sounding like old-hat now
For all they whinge about being treated badly by the high school jocks, they’re dead keen on upholding gender roles when it suits them. Can’t have girls around, girls are icky! They’re not fit to do the manly dude things like … play around on a computer? (Not having a go at gamers, just at the nitwits who’re carrying on like it makes them rocket surgeons, and that only a peen can endow such mighty skillz.)
:)
I honestly have grown really disillusioned with the idea of geek culture. I might have the hobbies (fuck, I make comic books and write spec fic) but a lot of it seems absurdly fixated on a dynamic that I’d rather leave behind in high school. Plus, I grew very sick of watching my fellow system members encounter the same kind of guys every time–nerdy, ‘sensitive’ guys who wanted to read us their shitty poetry even though we said we didn’t care for poetry (because of course, for THEM we would!), who wanted us to save them, and also wanted eye-candy on their arm to spite all those jocks they knew in high school who dated the cheerleaders.
Really, I’d just as soon not, thanks.
The funny thing about the guys bitching about how they were treated like shit in high school is that…these were the same fucktards that made fun of me in grade school for liking “guy” things like video games and Pokemon, and now they want to treat me like shit because “well, girls treated us like shit in high school”?
No. Fuck off. You can’t have it both ways.
Hi hokesone, not sure I’ve seen you here before — just in case, here’s a welcome package.
David, sorry about the migraines, that sucks. Hope they’re at least temporarily vanquished.
I’m sleepy because I’ve been working unpaid overtime, but I just wanted to share with you all how r/mr is working to uphold the rights of men by attacking any educational attempts against the #1 workplace killer of women. It is literally impermissible to talk about thing that harm women; men must ALWAYS be the focus, even in a workplace that is 95% women.
Sorry I’m not really engaging with the post, but I am myself not a gamer.
And I kind of hope that we could start a MBZ book club. XD
It remains baffling to me that male geeks think that they can declare geek stuff a “male space” and have everyone else go along with it. Geek stuff is commercial stuff – these are products, and the people who produce them would like as many people as possible to buy them. And if people buy they stuff and become fans they may well eventually want to attend events associated with the stuff, because that’s something that fans do. Do they not grasp the fact that scifi, gaming, and so on are commercial enterprises?
Even if geek culture had at one point been this hegemonic-masculinity-enforcement-free zone – I’d argue that it mostly replaced some of the standards with slightly different ones – how does more women being involved changing that? Surely the complaint would be against “fake gamer” . . . dudebros or something? Or is the argument that the minute women are around they are somehow forced to show off by being 1950s-style dickheads? Because you’re not, internet videogames people. Just treat them like people. It’s easier and kinder and makes things run a lot more smoothly for everyone involved.
@cloudiah
Don’t know what you’ve done with “#1 workplace killer of women” up there, but it’s just some nifty blue-text-what-changes-colour-when-hovered-over.
@LBT: Honestly, playing old-school adventure games seems hardcore as fuck to me. Course, I’m probably wrong on that point. I haven’t much used the term “hardcore gamer” (or just “gamer,” for that matter) since I realized how meaningless and masturbatory that term is.
And I can’t agree more about keeping the hobbies but ditching the increasingly awful geek culture. My issues have always been with the thoughtless consumerism and the obsession with in-jokes/memes to the exclusion of original ideas, but this bizarrely territorial exclusionism is a lot more odious. I was actually lucky enough to go to high school with a group of guys who shared my interests but were everyday, well-adjusted (well, by comparison) people. If I’d known how rare that would be, I never would have left.
Did I bork the link? I am VERY good at link-borking (and sperm-jacking, of course, they’re related skills taught in feminazi 101).
Here is the link:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1krapk/this_is_posted_by_the_union_at_work/
HTML avoided, so it can’t hurt me. :-D
I declare all music a trans* only safe space.
@ LBT
Roberta Williams was my favourite too when I was a wee one.
Plants vs. Zombies 2 forever! I have no cred, and I don’t care… thus providing me with cred. That’s what I tell myself, anyway. And no, I don’t feel the slightest shame that I m playing the same game as my colleague’s grade school kids. Perhaps some slight shame, before I drop a power cabbage load on top of a Pharoh zombie and blow him to bits.
“Have you ever met extremely hostile and angry geeks”
pfffftttHAHAHAHAHAHA
I think this guy must be a “fake geek” if he seriously hasn’t met any of the bitter, enraged assholes that tend to crop up in geeky circles.
Games I love: Soul Caliber, Final Fantasy Franchise, Pokemon, Sims 3, Harvest Moon, and Portal Runner. I kept it to the game I play regularly.
I think saying that Gaming is a “male space” is ridiculous. You can’t take a HUGE market and declare it yours.
And if a woman turns up they immediately have to start doing this?
Girls can be unpopular at school as well.
“or look like they would have been” So, he objects to pretty women being geeks.
I love how he’s all “OK, so I admit that I don’t actually know if any of these pretty geek girls were mean girls who made the lives of geeky boys hell in high school, but I’m going to act like they were anyway, because my butthurt is just that strong”.
There’s something really, mindbogglingly weird about differentiating to a large degree between casual and hardcore gamers.
“This activity that I do, for fun, in my spare time, where I play a game needs to have a minimum amount of difficulty or it isn’t real! I scoff at your lack of suffering!”.
I mean, sure. I just played through Teleglitch: Die More in one sitting from level 1 to finish because I have the twitch reflexes of a wired up , caffeinated snake (Well, I do anyway once I’ve had three energy drinks and haven’t slept in a day) so I anyone going “Hur durr casuals suck” can’t lump me in there (And never have? Probably because I’m a guy. My sister gets a lot of flak for playing, yes, Plants Vs Zombies), and I write that not to impress you but to impress upon you that it’s fucking meaningless since I also quite like plants versus zombies. You can’t tell a difference between something so inane as casual and hardcore games, because they deal in the same end-product; A different sensation of fun and amusement and time well spent.
It’s like people complaining that no one gets Art any more. Self aggrandizement and grand standing aside for a bit, it’s just a completely arbitrary distinction based on a need to feel smug and superior to someone perceived as perpetuating inferior behavior.
And it’s rather the same for the idea of fake geek girls. Fake geek anything.
“Oh, I’m sorry? This activity that I do, for fun, in my spare time, has a minimum requirement of reading. If you haven’t read the first 10 issues of the serialized Star Wars comics and know about the Fiery Fire Rings of Fornax, then I you can’t possibly be a real gamer!”
“Oh, I’m sorry? This activity that I do, for fun, in my spare time, has a minimum requirement of suffering. If you haven’t played through every Thief game with the interface turned off, you’re not a real gamer”.
And the worst fucking thing is that guywithaccount up there actually has a point, or comes close. I mean, I’m actually fairly sure that many people feel that books and games and interesting, obscure movies is their salvation from a world that occasionally snubs them. Not because everyone is a bone-deep escapist, but because fiction and games offers such a width and breadth of amazing wonders. How couldn’t you fall in love? But yeah;
Snubs them because their interests are considered weird and strange and different from the norm and not part of the in-group.
So when someone goes “Hey, that’s really neat, I like that too…” their response of choice is: “NOOOO YOU CAN’T TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME!”. Or possibly; “No, you haven’t watched it! Who was originally slated to appear in this role until Keanu Reeves replaced him?!”.
But of course he is also short of short-sighted (well, blind), so when he is snubbed from a world that demands notch counts and “Traditional masculine traits” (There’s that flirting with lucidity and a point again), and women then invade his space…
… the response is to complain that he can’t sleep with them.
What? Tell me that’s not the underlying idea there.”The increase in female participation threatens the safe space where many men go because they couldn’t live up to the goals of carving in notches on bedposts and traditional male values”.
Ie:
“Now that theres women here, someone is going to sleep with them, and I’m sort of annoyed that it’s not going to be me, and this threatens my space, because I still think that having slept with more women is an indicator of status, and now that I’m forced to realize that I won’t get that, it annoys me. So they can’t be real gamers! Because then they’re fake! And if they’re fake, they’re not really part of my subculture, they’re just advanced probe teams (Don’t get the reference? You probably never played Alpha Centauri, you’re not hardcore enough…) from the dreaded Jock League”.
… So we’re back to the idea of chattel and desires and how women are that and can’t have any, because then they’re mean.
Except now they also need to know about Superman.
Wow.
… I actually almost feel annoyed now.
Eh, I’m going to go play plants versus zombies because the delightful pea shooters cheer me up.
Toodle-pip.
I saw some cosplay outfits from this year’s comicon and there is a small percentage of the females who look like promo girls/pornstars dressing up sexy for photo opportunities/publicity.
Having said that, there are such things as geeky girls, nut in which high school ever were geeky girls considered part of the cool group?
There will be a test! but only the women have to take it.
So?
Comic Con is a huge professional media event. Why shouldn’t people promote themselves there? Why is it bad that some of the cosplayers “look like promo girls/pornstars”? In fact, let’s take a moment to dissect just how much sexism goes into labeling them in that particular way. Why do they look like “pornstars”? Because of the costumes (copied from the original, let’s remember)? Because they’re thin with big boobs while wearing those costumes?
This whole discussion depresses the shit out of me.
@starterlifesydney “females”? Really?
And let’s cut through this cos-play bullshit, right now. Cos what you are saying is that if a woman cos-player is too attractive, then she’s only there for photo ops/ publicity. What the fuck publicity/photo-ops do you think she wants? At a gaming convention?
While, of course, there’s no way that the only costumes available for cos-playing women are pretty much the uber-sexy ones? Or maybe Janeway (if we’re talking Sci-Fi as well as gaming). So either she goes as close to the character as possible & is condemned for being “publicity seeking” (again, what the fuck?) or she goes less revealing/sexy and is condemned for a lack of accuracy (or for being “too ugly” to play that character).
And so generous of you to admit that there were geek girls.
Assuming you’re here in good faith, think about what you are saying. And if you’re not, fuck off.
Damn, ninja’d by Katz and & Cassandrasays. ;-)
Great post, Fibinachi!
… I’m really wanting to see a coffee-drinking snake now.
And isn’t this the strangest thing? Most people I’ve known, self included, get excited when they find someone else shares their interests/knowledge, especially if it’s something not that popular or well-known. “OMG YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT WHAT DID YOU READ/DO/SEE THAT IS SO COOL!!!”
Of course there will be a problem with that for these clowns, given the usual women =/= people mindset they’re displaying.
What depresses me is that starterlifesydney isn’t new here, and as far as I know zie is more or less a feminist. So why the snark about the sexy cosplayers? This shit is so thoroughly embedded into geek culture that people don’t even realize how sexist it is.
Seconding that; I know starterlifesydney’s commented in good faith before.
Zie has a point about the nerd/geek girls being the popular ones in high school according to this nitwit in the OP – in what world would that be? Geeks and nerds weren’t a thing when I was at school, but jayzuz, I bet the condemnation’s much the same as when choosing to read a book made you some sort of freak.
Yeah, that comment did seem out of character. I’d certainly remember if zie’d said “females” before.
The rant about popular girls does rather illustrate the fact that the geek guys in question don’t seem to consider women who aren’t conventionally attractive to be women at all, doesn’t it? Either that or they just don’t notice them, which would explain how they failed to notice the fact that there were probably geeky girls at their school.
Cassandra
I think it boils down to thinking “if a pretty girl shows up all the guys are going to start competing for her and I will be a loser again.” They are unlikely to compete for a woman they consider unattractive, so she isn’t a threat and he doesn’t see her.
If PJ’s right, and I suspect they might be: what’s so bad about not being with some particular woman you found good-looking? Seriously. Not being with people is the default state.
@kittehs
Your iffy feelings about the Sex Party were very correct.
Also, why does your angst over the possibility of not winning the girl mean that the girl should be preemptively banned from cultural spaces that she wants to participate in?
Selfish babies is what they are.
I know I’m missing the point of this post and I promise I’ll try to not to do it again, but there was a discussion once on Pandagon (Amanda Marcotte’s) where I honestly could see very little difference between the ‘feminist’ arguments of the commentators and typical nerd bashing. Lots of arguments like “if you can’t get a girlfriend maybe try coming out of your mother’s basement and take a shower”. You get the same reaction if you bring up competitive video games, those same commentators can barely contain their disdain for having to take it seriously.
I know this doesn’t excuse attempts to exclusivity for gaming and misogny by gamers.
lowquacks – feckin’ oath! Preferencing One Notion??? What’s got into their alleged minds?
The irony is that my iffy feelings about them went the other way, not that they were going to be in bed with (yeah, I know, couldn’t resist) the Oxleymoron’s crew.
And the Qld ALP preferencing The Mad Katter … I mean, okay, it’s Queensland, but still …
I mean, I know the preference dealings process is arcane, but who in the civil-libertarian centre-left party with a SEX SEX SEX gimmick thought that people who couldn’t get them in might want their votes to go to the party only just subtle enough to be labelled as crypto-fascist?
Exactly!
You guys ever notice too how the dudes who rant about sexy women cosplayers being horrible attention seeking fakes are usually the same crop of dudes whom, if you bring up how ridiculously sexualized and/or objectified many female characters are, they will lose their shit. Suddenly then its all oh, sex sells, and its to be expected its the market and why? are you ugly feminists jealous of sexy comic/videogame ladies? Hurr hurr ithinkimsocleverlulznooneevercalledfeministsuglybefore
Once again their entitled, inconsistant and miserable personalities come out. As a woman, you just cant win with these types, be they MRAs or you garden variey misogynist. If these jerks are so damn offended by women cosplaying as over the top sexy lady characters that dominate every geek medium out there and who happen to be the most popular and iconic, then they should have no problem when feminists critique how women are portrayed in these mediums.
But that would be expecting consistancy, intelligence and human decency. And at the end of the day it doesnt matter who the fuck women cosplay as, Sexy or not, they can do so without being targeted by angry misogynist geekbros.
Oh and as a lady geek who was teased from elementary school until highschool (some of which was because of my interests) and has never once been popular, I hope these assholes step on legoes everyday for the rest of their lives. Thanks for erasing my existance.
@Quackers
You might find this amusing!
I heart this thread with so much passion that Captain Planet might recruit me, but there’s so much greatness that I won’t even start to quote. I started gaming before the Commodore 64 was even a thing. I grew up playing games And who are these abject idiots who complain about women playing games think they’re foolin’? Or who make odd-ass distinctions between casual and hardcore? Playing oldschool adventure games is much more a sign of being a real gamer (whatever the fuck that’s supposed to mean) than playing Halo Gears Of Modern Solid Honor Medals Warfare Space.
And yet again, we “girls” who have been playing video games for 30 years, who started out in the arcades before consoles even existed (the way we know them today, Atari and Colecovision existed), are invisible to these jerks.
I understand the irritation when your pasttime has been appropriated by popular culture. However, these assholes target their rage specifically at an entire gender, which is beyond messed up. Women and men are casual gamers in equal numbers. Only female casual gamers are treated with this kind of hatred.
I wish I could find this tumblr post I saw. This gamer girl finally said something after seeing one too many misogynist post on the gamer Facebook group she belonged to. She was immediately quizzed by the group leader to name the “top five games.” She listed things like Call of Duty (don’t remember the others) and was immediately sneered at for playing “girly casual games.” The goalpost shifting on that one has gone to incredible extremes.
>Girls have all the power in high school since what football team?
I thought the football-team phenomena wasn’t even about the kids themselves, but about how the town surrounding the campus being ways too caught up with their success and failures on the field? Without that validation and support they’re just another sports club.
I don’t understand dissing on cosplayers either.
My friend is very comfortable cosplaying as the sexy characters in the anime she likes. I chose to be more covered up. Which means I spend a LOT of time coming up with characters I can cosplay as instead of just picking my fav. character (because most of my fav characters have revealing outfits). This year I’m thinking I’ll go as Ice Queen from Adventure Time for the first day and TenTen from Naruto the second day. I’ve done Rosette Christopher from Chrono Crusade in the past. And my friend is doing Wonder Woman. Nothing wrong with any of these characters.
I’ve found a group of geeky folks to share my passion with. A majority of them are men. My friends husband and I are currently reading Kamisama Kiss together. Which I find to be unusual in the geek world. Most guys are very dismissive of Shoujo as a genre because its for “girls”.
I cut my gaming teeth on the spectrum 48k and have worked my way through every incarnation of the PlayStation. My computer is upgraded regularly to handle games…well, Civilisation. I have played Myst through the night, argued over chaos engine and toejam and earl with Mr Bigmomma until dawn. Kids kinda halted it…too tired…but I still love civ, and collaborate with Mr Bigmomma over Assassin’s Creed. I’ve been oblivious to this anti -gamer girl vitriol until I read this blog and followed some links.
Quackers.
They’ll complain even more that it’s supposed to be a he-man boysclub; no labia allowed. It’s a “stupid, sexy, Flanders” kinda thing.
“It’s a safe place to not have to exemplify masculine traits.”
FUCKING BULLSHIT.
If that was true I wouldn’t have gotten so much shit for being gay from the nerds I hung out with. I wouldn’t have been in a tabletop RPG where I was only allowed to join on the condition that I don’t “act gay”.
RARGH DINOSAUR RAGE
“Though the angry gamer dudes always claim that whatever games these women are playing somehow don’t count as real games.” Ah, yes, the “No True Scotsman” argument is a favorite among gamer geeks who like to degrade female gamers.
These guys like to point out that women only play “Mobile and Facebook games” which they claim are not real games. Besides the fact that it isn’t true, Mobile and Facebook games include Doom, Assasin’s Creed, Grand Theft Auto, Duke Nukem, Madden NFL, Call of Duty, Mass Effect, Metal Gear Solid, Wartunes and many more.
Try telling gamer geeks those are not “real games” and see how they react. :)
“It’s a safe place to not have to exemplify masculine traits.”. Well, yeah, it CAN be, but too much of the time it’s just an excuse to live out disturbing ideas and magnify those traits. I wanna play games with Weeboy, not idiots who can’t fuckin’ fathom that their solipsism might be wrong. Sorry, I’m getting angry way too early. And drunk.
There’s something really, mindbogglingly weird about differentiating to a large degree between casual and hardcore gamers.
Well, it’s all relative, innit? Not to insult anyone’s favourite titles, but frankly, high-level Tekken play (I myself am not remotely high-level) is so absurdly deep, precise and complex that all other games seem like mere bagatelles in comparison. I mean, if you want to be really hardcore about it, anyone who doesn’t know the individual frame durations for all of a game’s 5,000+ animations, as top Tekken players do, is a ‘casual’ gamer…
Since we’re talking about cos-players, there is an awesome woman I follow on facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/NicoleMarieJeanPage
I like her because she is a very talented costume maker, which is a whole extra layer of geekery. The geekery in crafting circles is HUGE. I don’t think these whiney dudes realise that you don’t even need to read comics or play video games to be a geek.
*applauds kiki and contemplates actually eating and getting some sleep… Then thinks screw that, it’s too late, and just laughs*
…I read a book that was so mindblowing I’m almost ready to claim the male brain just can’t understand the subtleties of written fiction.
Bonus: it was a science fiction novel.
Written by a woman.
MISAAAAAAAAAAAAAANDRY
… I feel so young (this is rare). I only began gaming in the 8bit era. I had a NES then a Sega MegaDrive then I slowly shifted to PC gaming, but not completely because I like JRPGs and those are mostly found on consoles (I currently own an NDS). I also play point and click adventure games and a metric ton of puzzles / hidden object games. I’m such a casual gamer. I mean I only got 3 endings in Devil Survivor. :] (I’m kind of a fan of the MegaTen series. ^^; But they are too time consuming (because frickin’ hard) for me currently.)
I still have a Caveman game from my childhood. Probably because it was kept at my grandfather’s house so was safe from my mum’s toy purges.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rare-Vintage-Tomy-Micro-Computer-Game-CAVEMAN-/330933748190?nma=true&si=zL5Xk3J6Xqa6zTyvoWdaSMG2VN4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
We had an Atari console with Pong and a couple of other games on it too, but it didn’t make it.