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Men’s Rights Redditor: It’s not sexism that holds back women in STEM. It’s just that women are inferior.

Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, the lovely IHaveALargePenis explains that it’s not sexism holding back women in science and technology. No way! It’s just that women are inferior at science and technology. No sexism involved at all!

IHaveALargePenis 10 points 1 day ago (15|6)      The fact that women are so underrepresented in many STEM fields indicates that there must be some educational, societal, or institutional force pushing them away.  There is. It has a lot to do with women though. First with STEM, the hierarchy in the workforce always favors the smartest/most knowledgeable people. This means you can't flirt your way to the top or simply just "make it" eventually.  The work is somewhat quantifiable, so people can be tracked in how much work they do. You can't sit around and chat or take extra time off and fuck around. People will find out.  Many fields have horrible deadlines and any person not finishing their work on time can slow an entire project and become the weakest link. When you're holding up something that thousands of people are working on, relying on, etc and they're all waiting for you, not fun. Additionally you'll be pushed to do overtime, heavy overtime. When it comes to software development for example, in the last few months leading up to release, you'll be better off bringing extra clothes and a sleeping bag to work. This can apply to virtually all other fields in different ways for different reasons.  Women and men study differently. Women are great and memorizing but don't focus on understanding. This is why there's a relatively equal amount of girls/boys in STEM the first year, but then it significantly favors the boys as time passes. The problem is that women do great on tests, but don't bother to understand that knowledge, which is fairly important later on and everything you learn will be used in the future (as you move from first to 4th year). This is why girls have been doing better (or so it seems) ever since standardized tests.  There are no problems in STEM for women. There's nobody out there trying to hold them back. My university cracked down hard on this shit, even had security cameras installed to ensure there was no harassment or sexism going on. And you know what changed? Nothing.      The key is attacking gender issues from both sides, rather than the BS of encouraging women to enter and just ignoring all problems men have.  What exactly is there to attack? There's 50% more women in college than men. Women have infiltrated every major out there outside of STEM. Do you know how HUGE STEM is? Let me tell you how huge it is. Go look up any non STEM focused University out there (MIT or Standord) and check the faculty for STEM or other majors. You'll find out quickly that the entire STEM curriculum has fewer faculty than a single major like business.

Maybe IHaveALArgePenis should have taken an English class or two and learned what “irony” is.

Also, uh, how exactly are security cameras supposed to guard against sexism? This is a new one to me.

Thanks to Wrecksomething on the AgainstMensRights subreddit for pointing me to this mantastic quote.

 

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Posted on August 10, 2013, in antifeminism, evil sexy ladies, irony alert, lazy women eating bon bons, mansplaining, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, patronizing as heck, reddit, the eternal solipsism of the MRA mind, women in tech and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 190 Comments.

  1. Citation needed, Rising Phoenix. On both counts.

  2. HI RUI! (to Rising Pheonix, the sock of the dude on the Last of US thread)

  3. Katz, how many different drugs? You could use color mixing with red green and blue. It is a lot of data. What are you looking for specifically? I’d guess patterns between drugs and weight gains/losses

  4. Katz — idk the “official” way to do it, but I’ve done time v weight and then a second y axis 0-2 so 1 = falls in the middle. And then color code that. Depending how many meds, excel might get unreadable, in which case I’d turn on the chart display thing (so each x value has the y values under it)

  5. It’s just an anecdote of course, but in my high school we had a choice between two hard science profiles based on: math, physics, chemistry, biology. Literally the group that picked the one with a biology focus was ~15 girls, 1 guy, whereas the one with the focus on physics had 11 guys, 0 girls. (I was in the second group) Naturally, everyone in the second group made fun of the one guy, and they also generally considered biology not a ‘hard science’ subject, as to properly maintain their feelings of superiority towards women. In retrospect it was really embarrassing on our side, especially since there were many girls that did very well in ‘hard science’ subjects, which we dismissed as tainted because they only did well by studying more, which didn’t count.

  6. Rising Phoenix is a decent name for a sock if you’re a pretentious fucker, this has to be acknowledged.

  7. @ misery – yes, yes, the old ‘biology is a soft science and therefore easy and not serious’ approach. I am familiar with that.

  8. 6 different drugs, max of 4 at one time.

  9. Off-topic: The Stop and Frisk case was ruled on today: as practised it’s unconstitutional. I did a write up: Stopped and fisked.

  10. Thanks for reading and summarizing this so I don’t have to.

  11. Why do MRAs blame “learning approaches taken in classrooms” for the poor academic performance of boys when the latter is a recent phenomenon and the former has changed little in 100+ years?

    Personally, I blame femme-phobia. When the worst thing a boy can be is “like a girl,” and girls are academically successful…

  12. Yes, I’ve noticed that all the uni-level biology courses I take get much easier when there are lots of women enrolled. And even easier than that when the prof is a woman.

    Seriously, we all just stand around ooo-ing and aww-ing at cute animal pics, then get graded based on who comes up with the cuddliest names for each specimen.

    That’s totes how it is. Really. It’s only those evil male profs who make us to math-y things like Hardy-Weinberg equations or Shannon indexes.

    Really, I swear.

  13. Katz — I’m thinking it might be easier to assign each drug it’s own line then. Number them and use their number for yes and 0 for no, it should chart like this if you put weight on one axis and the drugs on another. That make sense outside my head?

  14. Whoops, the grey line should be labelled as weight, not time. (And please ignore my color choices, did that quick on the iPad so my choices weren’t exactly great)

  15. @Monster, I actually ended up studying something completely unrelated to traditional ‘hard science’ and I would avoid former classmates that I would see in the train because inevitably we would talk about university and they’d have this look of pity/detachment when I couldn’t justify my study choice on their terms. It was like I had become one of those other people that didn’t matter so much anymore, definitely an eye-opening moment for me.

  16. RE: Kittehserf

    rabbitwink, there was an item in the paper here saying that there’s a push for it to be made illegal to use anything but French there, in things like restaurant menus. Is that true?

    In my linguistics classes, there was the joke that the only place Frencher than France was Quebec. (Because even the French have ‘Stop’ on their stop signs. The Quebecois have… er, whatever French is for ‘STOP.’)

    RE: Deoridhe

    I know a bit about the public housing here, but I was discouraged from even trying, since the waiting list is for years. Now that SSI is actually a thing for me, though, I might give it another look-see.

    I’ve never actually lived alone. (Well. ‘Alone.’ You know what I mean.) Given a choice, I actually prefer to live with other people, so I’ll actually probably hunt the co-ops or put out a Housing Wanted ad in the queer newsletter here. But I’ll definitely keep your thoughts in my back pocket! Thanks!

    RE: Falconer

    That’s funny. Balancing chemical equations was actually way more fun for me than straight multiplication. It felt like a puzzle. I felt the same way regarding figuring out electrons in ionic compounds; I had a really good strategy that I felt immensely proud of, and it made ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE to anyone I attempted to explain it to. (But I was likely a shitty ‘splainer.) I’m okay at math, but it’s deinitely NOT my realm of interest.

    RE: misery

    I was mocked in college for studying linguistics. I can only imagine the horror people would’ve had knowing that I’m now a working artist. It’s the most “useless” a thing one can do!

  17. Riu and Rising Phoenix are 11 km apart? Huh.

  18. Argenti, I’ll try something like that.

  19. In other news, Reddit again denies rape culture by proving rape culture. (Link goes to SRS, so that at least you can read the poop, if you read the poop, well-filtered through mockery.)

  20. Also, off topic but aaaaugh I am so tired of being wtf!sick. I want to have my strength back and write and go to the Social Security office and be able to walk freely and STUPID HUMAN FALLIBILITY!

    At least I have trolls to soothe me.

  21. LBT – worst thing is, I’ve had Quebecois friends who couldn’t read French (as in, French from France) because all they knew was Quebecois dialect. I seriously hope that’s not the sort of French the government wants for their monolingual wot-us-hate-tourists-paradise.

  22. Anonymous Contributor

    Well this post certainly showed me why women aren’t enrolling in STEM classes…Though it’s not for the reasons explained in the post…

  23. @misery – ah, they sound like an insufferable bunch of arseholes. Sorry you had to deal with that. I frequently meet people rather like that…have to explain my area of study to them and deal with all the ‘Right…so whats that good for again?’ condescension. (If they are so bleedin’ smart, why don’t they know what it is already, hmmm!?) I don’t get that attitude at all…like, OK some things are objectively more useful than others, but the world would totally suck if everybody only decided to study STEM and ditched all the other stuff like art and literature and designing shoes and decorating cakes and running little tea rooms and all that other stuff.

  24. RE: Kittehserf

    Quebec has everything bilingual now, I think. They lost a lot of business with the secession scare a while back; I can’t imagine them wanting to take the hit for forcibly monolingualizing everything, it’d suck ass.

    RE: Monster

    Exactly. I feel no regrets about studying linguistics, for instance. Am I using it for my job? Strictly speaking, no, but it sure is helpful for world-building in stories! Build a language, and you help build a culture.

    That’s the wonderful thing about what I do; NOTHING I learn is useless. Everything can be useful for world-building, character-building, or the crafting process of writing itself.

  25. I don’t know if the top level of government is involved, or it’s more local, but there was some really, really stupid shit going on with the monolingual policing. Like, an Italian restaurant got the heavies coming in telling ‘em their menus had to be in French and nothing else. Real WTF level stuff.

  26. RE: Kittehserf

    Well, I come from the country that created fucking Freedom Fries, so I guess I can’t claim superiority. (Though one Southern politician apparently got so sick of that bullshit, he jokingly created a resolution to rename the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of Freedom or something.)

  27. @ cloudiah

    Guh, Reddit and rape culture. That’s a bad sign… but thanks for linking to a thread where people are calling out the bullshit instead of the actual victim-blaming thread. If I had a Reddit account, I would say something like, “Rape is not something that just happens to you when you’re not careful enough. It’s something that someone else does to you because they wanted to.”

  28. You would think the fact that you get to dissect awesome things in bio would convince people it’s a pretty badass science.

    Admittedly during college I took a “biology for humanities” course instead of the regular bio. It involved a shitton of reading medical journals, which meant a lot more outside reading so I could understand those medical journals. Not to mention having to review those articles, explaining whether I thought the results were valid and why. I feel like I got a lot more “applied science” out of the totally not real science class than if I’d tried going into a class where I memorized everything and forgot it as soon as finals were done.

  29. You would think the fact that you get to dissect awesome things in bio would convince people it’s a pretty badass science.

    Heh – I organised a boycott of dissection in fourth form science, on the grounds that killing animals for a bunch of moronic sixteen-year-olds to cut up was wrong.

    I didn’t specify “moronic” at the time but probably didn’t have to. No budding scientists of any stripe in that lot. I was the only one who even went on to fifth form.

  30. Kittehserf: LBT – worst thing is, I’ve had Quebecois friends who couldn’t read French (as in, French from France) because all they knew was Quebecois dialect. I seriously hope that’s not the sort of French the government wants for their monolingual wot-us-hate-tourists-paradise.

    Really?

    Because French films come to Quebec just fine, but Quebecois films going to France get subtitled. I’ve never had problems having my (Parisian) French understood in Quebec, and when there was confusion they wrote it out, and I did just fine understanding it.

  31. I’m a bit tired at this point in the evening to delve into the whiff of subtle anglo colonialism I’m reading from some of the posters here, so I’ll just mention that the expectations of bilingualism are not exactly on an equal footing between Quebecois French and Americans/the rest of Canada. I don’t see people complaining as often that they can’t expect to be served everywhere in English in Mexico (though Gawd knows some American tourists are probably doing just that).

    We’ve got legal abortion. It’s also covered by our state medical insurance and available without parental notification as long as you’re 14 or over. But Plan B cannot be gotten over the counter. Go figure. Also, the Liberals gutted our high school sex education classes (yeah, our Liberals are our right-wing, again go figure) so things aren’t looking up going forward, but yay! gay marriage.

  32. pecunium – yeah, it surprised the hell out of me that a Quebecois friend couldn’t read standard French. She was bililngual, with English as her second language.

    BlackBloc, I raised this because of the incident I mentioned (the Italian restaurant) that would have been bizarre in any language or region. I have no idea what the situation is in the rest of Canada, so please don’t assume colonialism is at the root of this.

  33. pecunium — really? I cannot read a lick of Québécois, though I can usually get the topic of conversation in French (of course, I mean really fucking general topic here, but I’ve got fucking nothing with Québécois [besides auto-correct fixing the é's, which is awesome])

    Of course, what little French I can grasp is Latin, so a dialect of what is, to me, a really removed dialect…small wonder I can’t get any of it eh?

    Ok, this comment sums to Québécois, it isn’t Latin, which is a no brainer >.< (long fucking day, but you knew that already)

  34. Maths (as we say in Aus) and I are mortal enemies from way back in my childhood; I could never wrap my pink fluffy lady brain around anything more complicated than long division. My friend Christine however loves all that maths stuff, and is a statistician by vocation. And yet we both love to knit and crochet. The hive mind meld is incomplete in us. HOW CAN THIS BE?!?!

    @LBT: I’m so happy that things are looking up. Here’s to a stretch of really good stuff happening for you.

  35. Spleeny – ha! My ladybrain’s pinker’n’fluffier’n’yours! I couldn’t do long division. I cant’ do mental arithmetic at all.

    ::blows raspberry::

  36. I can’t always punctuate, either. :P

  37. @Kittehs
    As long as you can understand what the cats want, when they want it, you are good.:)

  38. This is true – all other knowledge is superfluous.

  39. re Québécois: One of the things which (understandably) pisses off the Québécois I know is the idea they don’t speak “real” french. France didn’t either,until Napoleon forced it on them. Lots of france still does it only grudgingly (and the, “French look down on you if you speak it badly seems to be based on Parisians getting sniffing at people who don’t speak the Île de France dialect).

    Because the settlers in Québéc predate this imposition, they retained a lot of the various dialectical patterns of the areas they came from (largely langue d’oil, not so much langue d’oc); because of the British conquest/French cession of Québéc they weren’t subject to Napoleon’s imposition of “modern standard” french.

    But it’s still Real French the same way American/Scots/Indian/Australian/New Zealand/Canada/Wales/Ireland all speak Real English.

    Or the same way the Texans/Californians/Massachusstans/New Jersians/Georgians/Tennesseans/Washingtonians all speak Real English.

    As to Kentish/Yorkish/Midlands/Lake District/Londoners (East and West End)/Liverpudlians, etc. all speak Real English.

  40. I’m reminded of something I read in a nineteenth-century English book on seventeenth French history – just a passing comment that French seemed to the author to have changed less in that time than English had, which I thought was interesting. Not that I’ll be putting to the test by learning French and trying to read Louis’s earthtime letters, though!

  41. RE: Kittehserf

    *snort* I’m sure Les Immortals would like folks to BELIEVE that, but I dunno that it’s actually true… especially if you think of French variants such as Quebecois and Yat.

    Now, if you want a language that has stayed shockingly regular for a shocking amount of time, you want Icelandic. But see, they can get away with it, because they’re fucking Iceland and are out in the middle of Atlantic Nowhere.

  42. LOL well, this was an English writer comparing seventeenth-century French with the French he was familiar with, and since it was documents from those at the top of the tree – letters between the King and his ministers, primarily, iirc – then it would be the language of the Ile de France and reasonably well educated (not something one can take for granted among the nobility in general at the time). This was before the Acadamie Francaise had any impact, though (and before its creation, mostly).

  43. @LBT

    A friend of mine is crazy in love with Iceland (like, to the point where we sometimes have to ask her to dial it back) and has studied the language, and she says it’s amazing to be able to read 900-year-old writings with the same ease that she converses with teenagers.

  44. @ignotussomnium- That bio class actually sounds amazingly helpful. I wish every college offered something like that, maybe even made it mandatory.

  45. I’ve been away for a few days, so sorry for posting in an old thread.

    This is relevant to the post. Please excuse my face. I hope that this amuses you all as much as it amused me : Redditors can tell that I’m not a scientist because I’m not pretty enough (?!) and also I’ve NEVER experienced sexism in STEM because they knew a woman once.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/INeedFeminismBecause/comments/1ff7l2/infb_the_local_science_factory_didnt_hire_me/

  46. This was before the Acadamie Francaise had any impact, though (and before its creation, mostly).

    If we can steal blancmange, French can steal jogging. C’mon, people.

  47. RE: Karalora

    I’m a little curious about Iceland myself; while on a plane, I encountered a fellow guy from the States who was living and working there. He seemed quite happy there and it sparked my interest, since until then, my mental envisionment of Iceland was one of a miserable iceberg with sheep on it.

  48. Falconer – the French are welcome to jogging, I’d rather have blancmange. ;)

    LBT – not sheep, pure Viking horses!

  49. I simply love how it is obviously a sign of women being inferior if they aren’t able to strive in a field BUT men and boys are being held back from sucess in school by their evil female harpy teachers who favor the girls!

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