Fox News lends a hand to the White Men’s Rights Movement
Suzanne Venker: White Men’s Rights Activist
In a case of spectacularly bad timing, Fox News happened to choose the day before the Zimmerman verdict was handed down to publish an op-ed proclaiming “the White American Male” to be the most oppressed creature on Planet Earth. In a piece entitled “Men — The New Second Class Citizens,” professional antifeminist Suzanne Venker declared that
From boyhood through adulthood, the White American Male must fight his way through a litany of taunts, assumptions and grievances about his very existence. His oppression is unlike anything American women have faced.
What is revealing about this quote, besides its complete disconnection from reality, is that Venker makes no other references to race in the rest of her piece, which runs through a number of tiresome and oh-so-familiar MRA talking points about the alleged oppression of men.
Venker complains about schools being biased towards girls, from grade schools that force students to sit still to colleges with their infernal Title IX. She whines about “sit coms and commercials that portray dad as an idiot.”
Quoting antifeminist psychologist Helen Smith, a friend of and sometime contributor to A Voice for Men, she suggests that women can get their boyfriends or husbands locked up on a whim just by claiming abuse.
I’m surprised she didn’t talk about the evils of “friend zoning.”
But when Venker refers to “men” in all of these complaints, she is evidently thinking only of white men — why else would she switch so seamlessly from talking about the alleged oppression of “men” to proclaiming “the White American Male” the ultimate victim?
There’s really no other word for this than, well, racist.
The day after Fox published Venker’s nonsense, we were of course reminded (as if any of us really needed to be reminded) of the very real oppression faced by “the Black American Male.”
Trayvon Martin didn’t die because he happened to see a show featuring a bumbling sitcom dad. He died because George Zimmerman saw a young black man in a hoodie walking home from the store and assumed, apparently because Martin was young and black and wearing a hoodie, that he was up to something sinister.
Trayvon Martin didn’t die because he was male; he died because he was a black male. His killer walked free not because his victim was male, but because his victim was a black male.
Suzanne Venker did us all a favor by revealing the unconscious racism underlying so many Men’s Rights complaints. The Men’s Rights movement is not only a movement that is overwhelmingly made up of white men; it’s a movement that’s almost exclusively about white men, and their largely imaginary oppressions, as well. We might as well call it the White Men’s Rights Movement.
Posted on July 16, 2013, in a voice for men, antifeminism, FemRAs, imaginary backwards land, imaginary oppression, irony alert, ladies against women, misogyny, MRA, on the tv, oppressed white men, racism and tagged antifeminism, fox news, men's rights, MRA, racism, suzanne venker. Bookmark the permalink. 665 Comments.
@Cloudiah – Cops will shoot at anything that moves and looks like it might have a gun. They’re operating on hair trigger. Zimmerman wasn’t, he made a conscious decision to go after an individual. And you can provide plenty of anecdotes, but there’s no denying that there’s a definite trend towards seeing black men as more dangerous than black women.
@Jason
I can’t speak to how racists perceive black men vs black women, or as I like to call them men and women.
I also think that if the American Government did not perceive all citizens of Japanese ancestry to be a threat it makes little sense that all the aforementioned citizens, regardless of gender or age, were imprisoned.
I don’t think we were afraid of Japanese women and children being spies for their country.
This seems like an appropriate time to bring up McCarthyism and all of the women who were blacklisted on suspicion of being communists.
Jason doesn’t want to acknowledge race in this.
As others have observed he would not have shot a white man.
He did stalk and shoot a black man. The difference being race. People have covered this. In the past he made phone calls to the police about black men in the neighborhood.
I just can’t…..
Oh, so it’s a fair assumption to make that Zimmerman wouldn’t have shot a white man, but when I make the equally fair assumption that he wouldn’t have shot a black woman, that’s an unfalsifiable straw man?
The fact that all the racist stereotypes that are applied towards black men aren’t exactly the same as all the racist stereotypes applied towards black women doesn’t mean that black men therefore face more racism than black women.
“But I think it quite likely that far more people would see a black man as a potential threat than a black woman, don’t you?”
No. You’re obviously, a racist and a sexist. Stop projecting yoor issues on to us.
It’s not all or nothing, this sort of things happens to women too. But men are more likely to be seen as dangerous, or criminal, or guilty. There’s no denying that.
Jason:
Google scholar is your friend. Throwing out baseless accusations…well, isn’t.
I love how Jason is so fixated on how black men are seen as dangerous (more dangerous than black men) which is why MEN are being discriminated against and not race.
Both black women and black men have animalistic stereotypes. It is a common tactic to dehumanize people. Just because the stereotypes are different does not mean that gender is a bigger factor than race.
Oh, and earlier when you said angry black woman is a stereotype? ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Google it you ignorant troll. It is a stereotype and just because you stick your fingers in your ears doesn’t change that it is a problem.
Thanks for the link, Sarah. I’ll take a look at it. I’m not familiar with maritime law in general or policies when it comes to sinking ships – but MRAs bringing up the Titanic as some example of misandry always bugged me (because it makes no sense).
And, Jason, the case with Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman largely has to do with race and the portrayal of those in the black community being “natural-born criminals.” I doubt all those portrayals in pop culture were because they were men and more because their skin-color differed from that of the majority – not to mention all the years of slavery, being secondary citizens, and pseudo-scientific theories like Phrenology. This happened to men and women. This is a fact and no amount of ahistorical analysis is going to change that.
The need to turn it into a case of “misandry” is exactly the problem I have with MRAs: every issue must focus on them, regardless of actual context. It’s self-victimization, which is odd because I see them accuse actual victims of such for no reason other than pure spite. Bring up the fact the prevalence of women who get raped is higher than that of men, and the response will be how it is “actually” just as bad if not worse…when it isn’t. At all. It comes off as as mass grouping of those with narcissistic personality disorder – it’s all about them and their pain and their feelings while dismissive of everyone else’s – and will continue to do so, as long as the group turns everything into an act of “misandry” and act oppressed when they obviously aren’t.
Edit: more dangerous than black women
I’m sure I made more errors, but I just can’t right now.
@David – I’m not arguing that black men face more racism. Racism hurts both men and women equally, it isn’t some razor sharp device that gets only certain people and not others. But misandry is often at the heart of racist stereotypes, there’s no denying that.
The assumption that Zimmerman wouldn’t have shot a white man and gotten off scot free is supported by data.
Men are more likely to be murdered than women — by other men. Women are also more likely to be murdered by men. I fail to see how this is caused by feminism. NOTE: I do not think the cause of this fact is that men are worse than women. I think men and women are good/bad in roughly equal numbers.
….Here’s a contest for you, Jason.
The next time you feel like writing there’s no denying that, well, FIND SOME RESEARCH TO BACK YOU UP FIRST.
When people try to stereotype the women of a marginalized group, they usually try to make them as manly, and unfeminine as possible. That’s why black women are portrayed as sex-crazed, stocky, coarse, streetwise, etc… as manly as possible. There’s no stereotype of a fair black maiden. (Not until The Princess and the Frog, anyway, and that was deliberately meant to be antiracist.)
*cough* Asian females are stereotyped as being weak and submissive. *cough*`
Which is why when people want to stereotype Asian women they depict them as ultra-feminine, submissive, and as un-manly as possible.
Jason really isn’t very good at this whole arguing thing. I still think he’s a sock, FWIW.
“There’s no denying that” is the latest version of “And that’s real.”
Insomnia sucks. I got 3 hours of sleep last night, and now it looks like the same deal tonight. Worried about friend with cancer, who has taken a turn for the worse. Cancer, of course, sucks even worse than insomnia.
(Hugs cloudiah)
Would camomile tea help? Turkey? I’m thinking that you may have to trick your body into being sleepy.
But men are more likely to be seen as dangerous, or criminal, or guilty. There’s no denying that.
That’s a function of the fact that men are afforded more agency than women are in general, not a bias against men. Women can’t possibly be dangerous because lady brains are soft and squishy and sugar and spice, so women are incapable of being actors in the world in the same way men are.
It’s the same logic that lets female pedo teachers off the hook — all those idiots who say “I wish I’d had a teacher like that in school!” Especially when it comes to sexuality, women are not given enough agency even to rape a child. They’re still only allowed to be seen as sexual objects, the lady from the Hot for Teacher video, even when they’re actually predators.
“It’s not all or nothing, this sort of things happens to women too. But men are more likely to be seen as dangerous, or criminal, or guilty. There’s no denying that.”
“I’m not arguing that black men face more racism. Racism hurts both men and women equally, it isn’t some razor sharp device that gets only certain people and not others.”
You have said that racist stereotypes affect men and women equally and have also said that men are more likely to be seen as dangerous, criminal or guilty. Can you please explain to us what you perceived to be the equally ill effects of racism against women?
(wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femme_fatale#Early_Western_culture_to_the_19th_century)
“In any oppressed group, the males bear the brunt of the hatred.”
“I’m not arguing that black men face more racism. Racism hurts both men and women equally”
Pick one.
@CassandraSays
@NightShadeQueen
You stole my argument. *Throws up hands*
@Saintnick – That’s not what being an MRA is about for me. I see it as an exercise in empathy. That’s because the problems of men are largely invisible. Men have been taught not to talk about these things all their lives. It leads to a lot of pain and anger. For me, it’s an amazing stretch of the empathetic mind to know that, beneath the big tough guy, there’s pain! The problems men face are no worse than the problems that women face. But they’re hidden on a much deeper level, and I think it takes a special kind of love to be an MRA and try and tease those problems out into the light.
Now, you mention stereotypes about the black community. Those stereotypes definitely exist, but so do stereotypes about men – and they’re so invisible, they’re right in front of our noses. Howard Zinn wrote in A People’s History something about how “when studying history it is easy to forget half the population entirely.” That’s just the problem. Men are seen as the default for a lot of things – both good and bad. Feminists have questioned the notion that a firefigher should be a man. They haven’t done anything to question the notion that a gunperson should be a man.
“That’s not what being an MRA is about for me. I see it as an exercise in empathy.”
lol
Did you really just say that?
“Feminists have questioned the notion that a firefigher should be a man. They haven’t done anything to question the notion that a gunperson should be a man.”
Yes, they have.
HOWARD ZINN, A People’s History of the United States
http://www.notable-quotes.com/z/zinn_howard.html
@CassandraSays: Once my brain enters this state, I don’t find that anything except a sleeping pill or total exhaustion helps, and of course I don’t have any sleeping pills around since I haven’t needed them for a while. I am trying some tea, but I don’t have high hopes.
Thanks for the hug! I hope to see friend tomorrow and let her know that no matter what, I am right there beside her. (And do a bunch of errands for her mom, who is her primary caregiver.)
FUCK CANCER.
And now we know whose sock this is.
On the principle of it being important to criticize your own in-group (it’s much easier to criticize outsiders), here is an example of someone who’s part of my in-group (white, European) displaying his batshit racist ideas, again. It’s really not surprising that Brevik thought this guy would want to be his buddy, but he actually underestimated the dude’s xenophobia. Smart move, French government, arresting his dumb racist ass before he does anything with the guns his equally batshit wife bought.
Well, when there are misandrist stereotypes of a group, the women drop off the map. They can’t possibly exist, or else the marginalized group might actually be human. And I suppose that invisibility is a difficult thing to deal with. Also, as you’ve pointed out, women in such groups are probably a good deal more likely to be sexually abused. So, it sucks for both genders.
@Jason
“Men have been taught not to talk about these things all their lives. It leads to a lot of pain and anger. For me, it’s an amazing stretch of the empathetic mind to know that, beneath the big tough guy, there’s pain! The problems men face are no worse than the problems that women face. But they’re hidden on a much deeper level, and I think it takes a special kind of love to be an MRA and try and tease those problems out into the light.”
I find that claim ludicrous in light of the MRA response to the Neo Male project, a project which is attempting to change the public stereotypical perception of men. http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showthread.php?tid=3995&pid=31732
These MRAs have stated that the do not want this project to get money because it supposedly attempts to subvert masculinity.
@NightShadeQueen – The problem is, Howard Zinn is a Marxist. Marxism is all about conflict. Who’s the oppressor, and who’s the proletariat? Those are the questions Marxism asks of every dynamic It’s a very limiting worldview, and it does apply to some aspects of society, but not to gender. Applying Marxism to gender is a capital mistake. The rules of gender are very, very different.
I’m not arguing with Howard Zinn’s view on a lot of levels. I’m not arguing with him that Andrew Carnegie had it many, many times better than a poor laborer. I am arguing with the notion that Andrew Carnegie’s wife didn’t have it every bit as good as Andrew Carnegie. I’m not arguing that the strikebreaker beating up a striker was probably a male. I’m only pointing out that the striker was probably a male, too.
@Jason please go read my earlier comments on page 1. About how men are NOT invisible. How they are overrepresented EVERYWHERE.
*slams head against wall*
Feminists are pretty much the only people who question the assumption that a shooter has to be a man. MRAs spend their time arguing whether or not women are even qualified to be shooters.
Look, I actually agree that the intersection of black/male is extremely dangerous for the person possessing both of those characteristics. But white men are very much less likely to be shot by the cops.
Blaming that on feminism means that you will never solve that fucking problem, you asshat, and that is why you make me angry.
(Cassandra, which sock is he?)
Jason: For you to quote Howard Zinn with such stunning lack of understanding and context is almost beyond my belief. Did you just randomly look up quotes on the web & think they meant what you want them to mean? Your lack of context for his writings is pure neglect at best, shameful and disingenuous at worst. You don’t know anything about him or his work or what he stood for. Just, wow. You should be deeply embarassed.
Oh my, Jason, allow me (as one of your fellows, a white male in his mid-forties, who spent his youth in that bastion of feminist laws, california, under Gov. Gerry Brown [back in his “moonbeam” days), to respond to this gem:
Bullshit.
There, I trust that got your attention. Feminsism doesn’t paint all men as rapists, nor as slavering beasts (that honor rests with the Conservatives, and the MRM).
You, of course, will fulminate, and froth that this is not so. You will be wrong. You have been misled, and are subject to a delusion. If not, then you are a liar.
Incidentally, reading material: Shuffling Feet
Hint: Jason, you’re supposed to read this one :D
Jason: No, Cassandra, I’m warning you that if we don’t address certain social issues now, more bad things like this will continue to happen.
Ah… the “nice place you got here, shame if anything was ta’ happen to it” routine. Just give the nice men what they want and they won’t beat you up, rape you, or kill you.
Nice “movement” you got there.
. And when men of color are done being insulted by you feminists comparing your “oppression” to theirs, they can take a little of the time left over to be insulted by me.
Whut? Why do you need to insult them? Oh… it’s an antecedent pronoun problem, you meant to say that when the MoC were done insulting the women is was your turn to insult the women.
Since you’ve been so polite as to wait your turn.
Oh, it’s the “taking quotes out of context” portion of today’s stupid feminist show.
No son, this is the reading exactly what is said; and laughing because you don’t know how to properly use pronouns.
This, you see, is the out of context portion of the evening’s entertainment, where you chose to misrepresent the events in this sentence.
1: I defy you to find that sentiment.
2: Good luck finding feminists who say the treatment of blacks in the US is just like the treatment of women (bonus points from erasing women from your litany)
3: Rebecca Watson didn’t say his taking no for an answer was the problem, it was that he ignored what she had said about not wanting to be propositioned at all.
But thanks for playing, there will be some lovely parting gifts on the way out (Scented Candles, matching towels and hard wooden chair)
@Melody – The outsides of men are visible. Everyone sees men as heroes. But can you tell me what a hero feels? Nothing. In the stories, at least, a hero feels nothing. He does what needs to be done to defeat the enemy, and any fears he has are soon quashed by duty. In real life, of course, the people we call on to be our “heroes” feel something. Men who go off to battle are haunted by it forever. If they survive, of course. In Joseph Campbell’s journey, the hero comes back from Hell with a divine gift. In real life, the male hero comes back from Hell scarred for life.
THAT is the myth of male power.
Really? I’ve always used views about childbirth as the marker for whether people marginalise another group. It can’t be coincidence that women of a despised race/religion or of an inferior class/caste always seem to qualify for the “just drop a baby in the field and keep right on digging potatoes/ hanging out laundry/ carrying water”. Not at all like the well-spoken, refined, ladylike women of my own class/race who suffer real pain during childbirth and real grief if the baby dies.
Not at all. Most of the real problems of men are caused by the social and economic systems that men themselves prefer for other reasons. They’re invisible to men mainly because men prefer not to think that the things they see as beneficial have significant drawbacks for men themselves.
And I’m not just talking about PHMT. This is about economic, employment and political structures and policies making men’s lives more difficult than they need to be. But some men, who might have joined political parties or unions or protest movements to take on governments or employers or aristocrats decades or centuries ago, have allowed themselves to be sucked into lashing out at others who are in the same, or worse, position than they are.
Howard Zinn is not a Marxist, he’s a very moderate democratic socialist.
Marxism is not “all about conflict”, it’s about class and the labor theory of value.
And no, Andrew Carnegie’s wife emphatically did not have it as well as he did. She couldn’t even vote, ffs.
@Cloudiah, I’m so sorry to hear it. Meditation and deep breathing have helped me in similar situations in the past.
Hey Jason.
You brought up the quote first. I was just providing context.
Let’s play a game! Cross-reference this with everything Jason has said about how feminists see men. “Heroes” totally sums it up, right?
(Holy crap he is dumb.)
Because women never went on strike, and women were never scabs.
See the difference between MRAs and feminists is that MRAs think men are better than women, while feminists believe that women aren’t worse than men.
Okay, I’m getting off the Internet and reading for a while.
Or this comment wrt to “Schrodinger’s Black Criminal Guy”
Also: the Illiad, a massive story all about Achilles’ emotions.
“TL/DR: I’ve frequently heard people object to the Schroedinger’s Rapist argument as sexist, with anti-black racism used as a counter-example. I reject this comparison because it neglects two important factors: 1) that the issue under discussion is about whether or not we want women to feel more comfortable; and 2) that black people often make similar behavioural adjustments to accommodate the racism of their white friends. I share some personal stories to illustrate this.”
1) Feeling comfortable is a choice. I know fear; I’ve dealt with social anxiety in my past. (Another unmanly feeling, and I’m sure you gentle-hearted feminists will make fun of me for it. Part of my anxiety had to do with the fear that people would see me as a loathsome criminal, maybe even a rapist.) But I mention this because fear is something you have to get over on your own. Most of the time, the rapist is an acquaintance, not a stranger – aren’t you feminists always quoting that one? So, the danger of being attacked on the street probably isn’t great – and it could probably happen very easily to a man too. (Maybe not raped, but definitely mugged or beaten up.) It’s up to you to overcome fear.
2) That’s just it. Black people shouldn’t have to do that! And men shouldn’t have to, either.
” Everyone sees men as heroes”
What does that makes womens role then? Passive damsels in distress if we are going with your story line. Damsels in distress aren’t asked what they want. They aren’t given agency. Heros often deal with eternal conflicts. Have you read the Odyssey? Its a pretty old tale about heros. And they most certainly deal with emotion in it. Most stories (action films included) have men with agency. Men with a plan, men with emotion, men as complex beings.
What earth are you trying to prove. Mens stories are written. Mens stories make the news. Men get to hold places of power. But you argue that men are invisible. Men are given speaking roles in film. Men are given names in film. Women are not. Get your facts straight.
I’m sorry, can’t stick the flounce because I just noticed this:
LOL.
It’s up to you to overcome fear.
Of what? I don’t remember anyone here saying they were afraid.
@Ana – There used to be posters back in the day: “Women, tell your husbands to vote for so-and-so!” Candidates wouldn’t have made those posters if women didn’t have some influence. I expect Mrs. Carnegie has a similar level of influence in her household – and she didn’t even have to work, like her husband did.
“Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”
― Margaret Atwood
Dude. Not the same thing.
Also: this and this
Jason, when you’re in line for an ATM, do you crowd up against the person using the ATM?
@Melody – Yes, women are damsels in distress. The man loves the woman so much, he will fight the dragon to rescue her. If a man is imprisoned by a dragon, does a beautiful damsel have any obligation to come to his aid? No.
You don’t acknowledge that much of literature is training men to be disposable. The glorious hero goes off to fight the enemy and comes back shining in glory. What happens in real life? Blown off limbs and PTSD. Literature lies to men. And you feminists believe the lie and work from there.
Doesn’t really matter, unfortunately – most others who go by the label act that way and saying you’re totally different from the rest doesn’t really mean much. I hear the same from libertarians all the time when criticized due to their corporatist ideology – “that’s not my libertarianism”. As if that should mean anything to me or anyone else whose otherwise familiar with its notions. Certainly doesn’t help when that group consistently misrepresents and demonizes feminism despite lacking an actual understanding of it.
That’s weird. Because, as a man, I’ve never been told to not seek help when needed or vent my frustrations when necessary – many of which had to do with being a hormonal male teenager with family issues. Far from “invisible” I’d say. Even these days I see plenty of venues for men to deal with issues, in fact there’s this magazine called “Men’s Health” that’s obviously popular enough to remain getting published regularly. There’s other examples but it’d take hours to point out all the things designed specifically for men in one way or another.
I can’t help but think you didn’t bother to look for these venues or simply deny them, all so you can self-victimize. You obviously want attention going here and espousing your ideas – though you are defensive over the fact people here didn’t like it (what did you expect?). I told a really shitty joke at another and people got on me about it, rightfully – thus feeling bad about it and making sure not to do so again. You post many of the same claims other MRA trolls have before and then get indignant by the fact you were criticized, as if you were expecting a welcome wagon.
Do you proof-read at all? You just made a contradictory statement: first, it’s that the problems men and women face are the same – then turn around and say men’s problems are “hidden on a much deeper level.” You do understand you just said that men’s problems are no worse than women’s problems, but they are. That isn’t “nitpicking” – I’m just pointing out an obvious logical fallacy.
That’s…nauseatingly schmaltzy.
It takes a “special love” to be an MRA? More like “hate”, from my experience. It’s also pretty dismissive of the fact other groups, who’ve been around far longer than the MRA, have been about bringing up actual issues that went ignored or downplayed by the rest of society at the time.
Once again, you prove my point: for MRAs, it’s all about themselves – no one else matters as much as they do. You apparently can’t be a decent human being with an MRA, by your logic. Sorry, but I can’t believe that one bit…
“Feeling comfortable is a choice.”
Not really, no.
If someone’s making me uncomfortable, I can’t just make myself comfortable despite the fact that that person is making me uncomfortable. People’s minds usually don’t work that way.
@Night – Blacks are afraid that whites will laugh at them. Whites are afraid that blacks will kill them. Does that sounds any better? I think not.
By the way, as I argued, fear is your own responsibility, and your demon to get over. Not mine. If there is any truth to the hero’s journey, it’s that you have to face your fears and march into Hell sometimes.
Jason: Anyways, none of this is the point. You can nitpick little things I’ve said, try and make me racist or whatever, but you can’t disprove my original point – that Trayvon Martin was, in part, shot because he was male, and that racism is largely misandrous – and we need to address this issue, or else more incidents like this will happen.
Hrmn….
I’ll say this: Had he been white, and male, we’d never have heard his name.
I’ll also point out that it’s not “feminism” that caused Zimmerman to go hunting for a black person to shoot that night.
And Zimmerman wasn’t a feminist, nor was he female.
So yeah, your argument that “misandry” is the driving force, refuted.
Jason: @Sarah – that’s a very fair point. However, you’ll notice that the stereotypes of black women portray them as manly (overly sexual). Their womanly qualities are under-emphasized.
Unless they are the doting, “Mammy” who adores the “little massas” and atteneds her, “Ma’am” with loving devotion (think Gone With the Wind”
Jews eat hummus,
No… they eat Felafel, Kugel, Cholent, Chopped Liver and Gefilte Fish, except on the nine fast days (such as today was).
I’d go on but it would just give you guys more fuel to call me a racist
No, you gave us more than enough fuel, that was gasoline to the fire.
Not all are even bad (except inasmuch as judging a person by the group they belong to is inherently bad).
Unless they are women, and moreso if they are feminists. amirite?
@Ana – You’re right. Next time I want help stereotyping, I’ll ask a feminist for assistance.
Yep, I’m right.
No matter how racist Zimmerman might be, he wouldn’t have gotten out of the car to chase down a black woman because she might be a criminal.
You sure? He has a history of domestic violence.
“Tons of useful stuff. The men’s guide to fitness, sex, women, workouts, weight loss, health, nutrition and muscle building from the world’s largest men’s magazine.”
Yes, Men’s Health magazine is ALL ABOUT helping men deal with their deepest issues! NO. I love muscle building, I do it myself, but that’s just part of the old masculinity. We MRAs are trying to go beneath the surface.
Jason wins this month’s “most totally mock-worthy quote” contest for posting this less than 4 days after the Zimmerman verdict.
@Jason
WOMEN ARE GIVEN NO AGENCY.
Meaning they don’t have feelings (the thing you were whining about men not having) or wants, desired anything. They are things. THEY are disposable. Think James Bond new woman every show. All damsels. You know who is disposable? No. You probably don’t.
*Told a shitty joke at another post, anyway…
“Not at all. Most of the real problems of men are caused by the social and economic systems that men themselves prefer for other reasons. They’re invisible to men mainly because men prefer not to think that the things they see as beneficial have significant drawbacks for men themselves. ”
These social and economic systems are not necessarily preferable nor are they invisible to all men. Some men, perhaps, but let’s not make sweeping generalizations. It’s unhelpful.
Right, because “influence by proxy” is exactly like being able to vote and make money for yourself and being accepted as a full-fledged, sentient human with civil rights.
What if telling your husband how to vote doesn’t work? What if your husband decides to veto your requests? Oh wait, that’s what happened for years until women demanded the right to vote, largely riding the wave of the influence they began to have in public life on the heels of their entry into the workforce due to industrialization.
No one is saying myths about male heroism don’t hurt men, for the record. Feminists have been saying that for years; some of the most vocal pacifists in history have been feminists.
@pecunium – There was misandry long before feminism.
And @Saintnick, I can’t be responsible for the actions of all MRAs. Paul Elam’s methods are wrong. He sees manhood for what it is, but he can’t break out of it himself. (Not that you guys make it easy for him! If you cared about men’s pain, he and most other MRAs wouldn’t be nearly so angry and Manboobz would have less to write about.) Warren Farrell got me into men’s rights. You’ve heard the misquotes, I dare you to read his book. He presents a magnificent vision of how to help men. A Voice For Men does a lot to help men and I respect them a good deal, but I think they’ve missed the boat on what it really means to deal with the male gender role.
@Cassandra – Well, women can kill men too. And, as I pointed out in my very first comment, women tend to get shorter prison sentences than men for the same crimes.
He has to be missing the point on purpose, right? It’s surely impossible to be this stupid and still be able to operate a computer.