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Men’s Rights Redditor: Nigella Lawson should have expected choking because Saatchi is a rich dude, and rich dudes are EXTREME!

So the regulars in the Men’s Rights subreddit are discussing the Saatchi/Lawson divorce, as we were yesterday, and, well, it’s going better than expected, in that quite a few of them are actually willing to accept that Saatchi actually abused Lawson and that his demand that she defend him against the accusations of abuse thus don’t really make much sense. I guess that’s what happens when the abuse is literally caught on camera and printed on the front page of every British tabloid.

But not everyone there has responded so, well, rationally. Take this fellow:

Sasha_ 10 points 1 day ago  This is one of those things where anything you say will run up against the absolutism of the ideologues. The fact is that neither Charles Saatchi or Nigella Lawson are 'normal' people - he's a billionaire art-collector and ad-man, she's a lifestyle guru and millionaire in her own right. They get up to all kinds of shit that don't make any sense to anyone outside that kind of rarefied circle. Was he wrong to throttle her in public? Yeah, probably. But he's the kind of fella who thinks nothing of chartering a helicopter to scatter rose petals on her birthday, so you know, it's all going to be a bit fucking extreme isn't it? This is the thing; if I began a relationship with a playboy centrefold, I wouldn't be THAT surprised to come home one day and find her in bed getting strange with the tennis-coach. I'd be disappointed, but not surprised.  Same goes if you marry the world's No1 golfer, or Oscar Pistorius - you're going for the extremes here, and if you're going to fuck a Rolling Stone, things are going to get fucking odd at times.

Dude, I’m pretty sure the rich and/or weird are subject to the same laws (and moral judgements) as the rest of us. Billionaire art collectors don’t get a free pass to choke their wives in public. Nor is that equivalent to a hypothetical Playboy centerfold cheating on you.

Also, as a point of fact, Saatchi isn’t a billionaire. According to Celebrity Net Worth, he’s worth something on the order of $100 million; the site estimates Lawson to be worth $15 million.

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Posted on July 9, 2013, in alpha males, antifeminism, bad boys, crackpottery, domestic violence, excusing abuse, mansplaining, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, reddit, whaaaaa? and tagged , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 50 Comments.

  1. More highlights from that thread:

    “You know a domestic dispute is not the end of the world. Maybe there are people out there who think couples should stand up for each other despite having problems. He didn’t beat her to a pulp, as far as we know there’s no proof he did anything which actually hurt her. The photo looks harsh but he’s not choking her to death, it’s just his hand is on her neck. I know it’s sacrilege to even hint at this but she might even think he was justified in threatening her because she did/said something which we know nothing about.”

    Apparently she should be grateful that he didn’t abuse her WORSE, and should stand up for him for not killing her! And who knows, maybe she was totally asking for it? I have no basis for that assumption, but I’m totally gonna make it anyway!

    “We don’t know what their relationship is. Some relationships include violence, like S/M relationships…Or do you think S/M relationships should be illegal?”

    Even going on this wild and baseless assumption, it ignores the fact that partner abuse is a major problem in the S/M community as well.

  2. sarahlizhousespouse

    I have to say… props to the guys saying, “This is abuse, and I’m not going to stand up for Saatchi. Fuck him.” Despite the apologists flaming around r/MensRights, I feel there is hope for humanity.

  3. Same goes if you marry the world’s no1 golfer or Oscar Pistorius

    So according to them, any woman marrying a famous man shouldn’t be surprised to be killed by him – assholes!

  4. I love how the people who are the absolute best at black-and-white thinking are accusing the rest of us for engaging in black-and-white thinking. These manospherians have to be the most textbook case of psychological projection that can ever be documented. Every single thing they say against those with whom they disagree is nothing but a projection, pretty much 99% of the time.

  5. S and M relationships usually are agreed on when the violence happens(like sex) and there’s a safe word. It’s not like they just randomly strangle each other and then get horny because of it.

  6. Also I didn’t realize being rich excused crime, and that all rich people were abusers.

    If it were the other way around(including anti DV people and these abuse apologists, they’d be all over this citing it as an example of a woman abusing a man, and how feminists all want men to be in abusive relationships.

  7. I know it’s sacrilege to even hint at this but she might even think he was justified in threatening her because she did/said something which we know nothing about.

    There is so much wrong here. There’s no justification for threatening/abusing someone.

  8. So… going by that guy’s logic, it’s not okay for Nigella Lawson to be surprised that her soon-to-be ex-husband choked her, but it IS okay to be disappointed?

    Fine distinction there, bro.

  9. So according to the charming Sash_, Oscar Pistorius was just exhibiting typical extreme behaviour – only to be expected from a rich man.

  10. I’m glad that at least some of the misters agree that choking your partner is wrong.

    That this is the best thing I can say about the folks on r/mr troubles me.

  11. Wait, but if you marry Oscar Pistorius you should pretty much expect to get shot?

    Oh, misters…

  12. These guys.

    These fucking guys.

  13. Take note! If you hit your wife, it’s ok because you also gave her flowers! /sarcasm

  14. “You know a domestic dispute is not the end of the world. Maybe there are people out there who think couples should stand up for each other despite having problems. He didn’t beat her to a pulp, as far as we know there’s no proof he did anything which actually hurt her. The photo looks harsh but he’s not choking her to death, it’s just his hand is on her neck. I know it’s sacrilege to even hint at this but she might even think he was justified in threatening her because she did/said something which we know nothing about.”

    And sadly, this is how lots of abused people end up thinking – “oh, my relationship isn’t THAT bad, it’s not like he actually HITS me, so I should totally stay and fight through the problems” when a guy is merely emotionally abusive, or if the guy does hit her, “it’s not THAT bad, he hasn’t hit me SERIOUSLY, what he did can’t really count as REAL hits”, or if the guy does hit her very badly “it’s not THAT bad, because it’s not that often and he was super upset when he did that and really lost control of himself and he was so sorry the next day…”

    Only abused people who think like this, do it because being abused messes with your head. There’s really no excuse for applying that “logic” when you dispassionately think about relationships in general.

  15. Take note! If you hit your wife, it’s ok because you also gave her flowers! /sarcasm

    Don’t forget, he also magnanimously didn’t choke her half to death. Had he choked her half to death, flowers would not be enough. He’d need to make it up to her with something like a new washing machine for her to use to do his laundry. Something like that.

  16. Only abused people who think like this, do it because being abused messes with your head. There’s really no excuse for applying that “logic” when you dispassionately think about relationships in general.

    Worse, people like this putting it out there *helps plant that idea*.

    And that’s a feature, not a bug.

  17. Guh. Okay, so just after reading this, my wife forwarded me THIS lovely piece of shit. Trigger warnings for just about every form of misogynist behavior you care to name, up to and including threats:

    http://stickiebun13.tumblr.com/post/54962207802/warning-to-any-female-cosplayer-in-the-chicago-and

  18. Every time I read something like this, I am reminded to be thankful for the parents I had. When I try and imagine Dad putting his hands on Mom in such a manner, it just doesn’t work.

  19. I like having my partner grab my throat, it’s one of my kinks. There’s nothing wrong with that when it’s done consensually and everyone is aware of the risks. If someone grabs another person’s throat during an argument it’s not consensual even if they otherwise have a BDSM relationship (which so far as I know is not the case in this situation).

  20. How in the name of Middle Eastern liberal Jesus is “eh, she had it coming” not a politically approved mantra? Have you seen politics lately?

  21. @freemage, Jesusfuck! That poor kid Just going about zher day all “doo be do…oh hai FB message.” and then BLAMMO! Misogynistic, homophobic, actual-nazi, sadpenis, bigot all up in her face. For no reason at all! nazidude seriously needs to get off the internet and sit himself down for a long overdue chat.

  22. @freemage, mayimoktoo: That guy wouldn’t happen to be this guy, would it?

    Because if he wasn’t, that would mean there are TWO Nazi cosplayers out there.

  23. Sadpenis Nazis.

    I hate sadpenis Nazis.

  24. CassandraSays

    Oh, the Nazi cosplayers. I don’t go to cons, so I usually avoid this debate by default, but I did once get into a long argument with one on Jezebel in which she insisted that it was OK because she was cosplaying a music video from a Japanese band and they just don’t think Nazi stuff is a big deal in Japan. There are many, many problems with that argument, but the biggest one, which I pointed out, is that she was actually wearing the costume in America and Canada.

  25. @Falconer: Or worse, two different self-centered, intellectually-void, bloviating sadpenis* nazi cosplayers out there.

    *sadpenis + nazi – together now and forever.

  26. So…with this logic as long as you give the person you smack around something it is okay to hit them.
    I wonder what the judge would say to that. I just punched him in the face your honor. *court room gasps* I GAVE HIM AN IPAD AFTER! *court room sighs in relief*

  27. Did Saatchi actually hire a helicopter to scatter rose petals or has Vox just been reading too many Harlequin romances?

  28. *sadpenis + nazi – together now and forever.

    I’m okay with nazis being associated with sadpenises now and forever.

  29. Okay, I can see cosplaying as a specific fictional Nazi character being more or less acceptable and not meant to be offensive (say Red Skull from Captain America or Kroenen from Hellboy) because they are fictional and are clearly villains. Cosplaying as a historical Nazi though, why would you do that? I honestly can’t see someone thinking that’s a good idea unless they’re a white supremacist.

  30. CassandraSays

    The best part of the story of the girl I was arguing with is that she expected the people guarding the US/Canadian border to accept “well it’s because this guy in a band I like wore it, you see, it’s a tribute” as a reasonable explanation as to why she had a Nazi uniform in her car.

  31. Noadi: There’s a few anime that feature generic Nazi characters. These guys usually claim to be cosplaying as one of those. Since the character is so unremarkable outside the uniform (unlike, say, the Red Skull), the effect is that they’re just fucking sadpenis Nazis (and thank you so much for that, Shaenon–it really improved my mood).

  32. Maybe my point didn’t quite come across right, I meant that a character like Red Skull is clearly not meant to be a generic historical Nazi which is what makes it acceptable to me. It’s unlikely that even someone unfamiliar with Captain America wouldn’t recognize it as a character and not someone just dressed as a Nazi because they like the uniform.

  33. CassandraSays

    I think that if cons want to ban people dressed as Nazis, even Nazis who’re also recognizable characters, they have the right to do so on the basis that some other con-goers might find it upsetting.

  34. Did Saatchi actually hire a helicopter to scatter rose petals or has Vox just been reading too many Harlequin romances?

    Googling “Saatchi helicopter rose petals” brings up nothing remotely like that, so probably the latter. But it does bring up a story about a swan that fell in love with a helicopter, which I just realized I’d rather read about.

  35. I think that if cons want to ban people dressed as Nazis, even Nazis who’re also recognizable characters, they have the right to do so on the basis that some other con-goers might find it upsetting.

    Oh absolutely. I don’t disagree with you on that at all. Some cons have banned prop weapons for the same reason and while I don’t entirely agree with that they can set their rules as they see fit for the comfort of their attendees. Quite honestly I’d rather attend a con that is overly cautious than one that doesn’t care about their attendees as much (such as the cons that don’t want to put harassment policies in place).

  36. CassandraSays

    It was the woman who expected the border guards to respect her right to cart around a Nazi-themed costume that I really found laughable, though. They did let her through in the end, but she was shocked and outraged that they even dared to ask her questions like “why do you have a Nazi outfit in your car?”.

  37. When are the MRAs going to collapse in on themselves like the moral black-holes they are?

  38. I like having my partner grab my throat, it’s one of my kinks. There’s nothing wrong with that when it’s done consensually and everyone is aware of the risks. If someone grabs another person’s throat during an argument it’s not consensual even if they otherwise have a BDSM relationship (which so far as I know is not the case in this situation).

    And if it was consensual… why would she leave him over it?

    “Yeah so I’m in this really great relationship and we have this kinky thing where we like to do breath play in public, it’s totally a turn on, but this one time someone actually saw us doing our incredibly exciting and consensual and negotiated-before-hand public breath play scene so I’M LEAVING HIM AND LETTING EVERYONE IN THE WORLD ASSUME HE’S AN ABUSER BECAUSE OF THE LULZ”

    ???

    Only an MRA would think this is a normal thought process for a woman or anyone.

  39. anadiomene122

    Ahh, so finally I get it. The reason why the redpillers are ok with believing in alfalfa males (even though this requires that they label themselves beta manginas and essentially losers) is because this allows them to fantasize that one day, if they just work hard enough at being jerks, they will inherit all the entitlements that come with being such a demigod among men. Which includes being able to abuse and murder women with impunity, apparently, because that’s just one of the perquisites of being an alfalfa. Because the only reason they’re not allowed to do that now is because they haven’t dominated enough other men yet to justify it socially.

    It all makes sense now. They’re just completely deluded.

  40. “Dude, I’m pretty sure the RICH and/or weird are subject to the same laws (and moral judgements) as the rest of us.”

    Bwahahahahahaaa!! AAahhahahahahah!! Your naivety is hi-larious, Futrelle.

    Yes, Saatchi blatantly abused Nigella.
    I won’t be surprised if he goes completely unpunished or just gets a slap on the wrist (e.g. police caution), because $$$ buy the very best lawyers – and judges too for that matter.

  41. F1, being subject to the same laws and moral judgements as the rest of us =/= being held accountable to the same degree because $$$$ purchases people who are willing to work hard to skirt the laws. hth.

  42. Oh look, the current carried him past a hotspot.

  43. “Bwahahahahahaaa!! AAahhahahahahah!!”

    -_-

  44. Oh look, the current carried him past a hotspot.

    Made me LOL, but in a somewhat more restrained way than Joe there. Joe, are you sure you’re okay? Maybe you’re just high, which is fine, but your posts seem a bit out there.

  45. RE: cloudiah

    Maybe he just got his wisdom teeth out, and he ain’t gotten over the nitrous oxide yet.

    Also, HEY GUYS! I got a big anon donation from a friendly boobzer, so I’ve a poll up for free writing on one of my series. Even if you don’t have an LJ and can’t use the poll, leave me an anon comment! May the best series win!

  46. anadiomene122

    Most men who abuse and rape and murder women go unpunished, Joe, even the poor ones. Your naivety is astounding.

  47. @Ally S: I’m going to be hearing Joe’s comments in Mandark’s voice from now on.

  48. anadiomene122

    ^^unless they’re brown and the victim is white, then the U.S. calls out the dogs

  49. The men’s rights extremists are complaining about everything. Charles Saatchi did this to himself. NO ONE told him to go out in public and choke the living daylight out of Lawson for 28 minutes.

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