Long Weekend Open Thread
Like a lot of people in the US of A, I am taking a long weekend. Posting may be a little light for a bit. So here’s an open thread for everyone else taking a long weekend. Or not. Use this thread for anything that’s not personal. Like misogyny, politics, kitties, you know the drill. (Though kitties are welcome in all threads, of course.)
I am hoping my long weekend turns out a bit better than that of the people in the Australian movie of that name from 1978, which I keep meaning to see. Apparently their little beach vacation doesn’t go so well, and they are attacked by … nature? At one point, I believe, they face off against an enraged dugong. (No, really.) The movie was recently remade, but apparently the remake wasn’t as good.
Stay tuned for more reviews of movies I haven’t seen and that I’m just giving vague impressions of based on things I’ve heard somewhere.
Posted on July 5, 2013, in off topic, open thread. Bookmark the permalink. 1,365 Comments.
And back to the far more interesting conversation about bras…
@gillyrosebee
I know, right? Muppet bras for the busty – are they trying to ensure that shirts don’t fit? Maybe they’re in league with the alterations industry, conspiring to force us to get all our shirts tailored. Behold the callous indifference of men that no MRA site focuses on these problems! I think I’ll write another 20000 words about this in the comments section of a blog where everyone is having a conversation about something else.
That phrase only means that personal issues involving the lives of women are oftentimes political ones as well because they relate to systems of oppression that affect women. It doesn’t mean that it’s totally okay to universalize an instance of personal experience.
You still made her cry (even though it wasn’t your intention) and you still said that in front of everyone. It’s no surprise that the people around you saw that as insensitive or rude because, to a lot of people, what you said amounts to saying that you think she’s ugly (even though that wasn’t what you meant to say).
@reginaldgriswold:
Oh.
Well that sucks.
Weren’t you the one who was so concerned with showing empathy? This is what empathy looks like. Having a small measure of concern for the feelings of others. It’s really not that difficult.
Chances are that they were, actually (I myself have done so a number of times), but that those friends chose to address the crappy behavior in question between the two of them, like mature adults, instead of stooping to the level (and engaging in the hypocrisy) of shaming someone in public to tell them not to shame people in public.
And that first comment was sarcasm, sweetie. Sorry if I forgot to hang a lantern on it for you.
I always thought padding was about shape, not size, like your breasts have to be perfect hemispheres so we’ll stuff the bra until it’ll stay that shape no matter what you put in it.
OF: I’m not trying to shame you by saying you’re a shit human. You’re clearly impervious to shame. If you weren’t you wouldn’t be typing the shit you type.
Something tells me that online you and offline you are probably very similar–but not in the badass way you think–, because you’re shown here that you are a weasel-worded, mealy-mouthed, all around chickenshit supremely dishonest motherfucker.
I hope you get a big blast of self-awareness one day.
It is about shaping, but the problem is that when there’s too much padding you end up, not with boobs that look like natural perfect hemispheres, but instead like you’re smuggling Muppets under your shirt.
What about the bras that cut your boobs in half? Those are the WORST.
And then you look like you have 4 boobs! Which is just overkill.
(Can you tell that I just watched Dave? The Simon Pegg version, not a movie about trolls being creepy by overusing the name of our host.)
Fib – Yes. Yes, he does.
Gilly – I agree with you. I’m not in the business of publicly shaming and policing other grown-ups. Unless someone is doing something really crappy (a long berating, or assaulting someone), I’ll wait until later to address their behavior in private. Hell, I did this after my 4th of July party. My (male) friend was being a shit to my other (male) friend. I privately told him that he was obviously hurting my friend with his mean-spirited jokes. I only mention genders since OF asserts none of us have empathy for men. OF doesn’t care about empathy; he just wants others to hurt because he has.
An old boss once told me that if you want to motivate people you praise in public and chastise in private. There are some exceptions to that, but “when an innocent third party will be hurt by witnessing the conversation” is not one of them.
Oh ObsidianFiles, no. No. Just… no.
an argument can be made that no one “deserves” housing, food, etc., either – that no one “owes” these things to someone else.
Wow. With an attitude like that, I hope children aren’t dependant on you.
I say that to make the point that all needs/desires along these lines are legitimate, and in truth, human history has addressed them in varying ways down through the ages. When it comes to questions of sex, and more specifically, the male drive/desire to get it from/with Women, again, humanity has addressed this in varying ways across the world.
Food and shelter are not comparable to sex. Point blank. As a man who’s having a brief interruption in homelessness, and will soon be returning to it, you are making a false comparison that is requiring all my self-control not to explode with rage.
Without food, I starve to death. Without a home, I’m exposed to the elements, violence, and my ability to gain employment plummets. Without sex… I don’t get laid. Can you seriously not realize the difference?
That you make this comparison at all… what is WRONG with you?
There’s also the fact that houses don’t care who lives in them, but women do care who fucks them. We are not a resource that can be provided by society without crossing all kinds of ethical boundaries.
Okay fuck this, I’m going back to talking about my trip. Who’s with me?
It looks like I’m going to have to invest in a tent, because I will likely be camping a lot, and since I’m going to be lugging it on my back for hundreds of miles, I can’t cheap out on some used whatever. This will make things heavier, but it will also mean portable lodging. (And parks! So many beautiful, beautiful parks.)
Amnesia, I’d be happy to visit you! I got a buddy in DC (though she’s being really hard to get ahold of, so she may not be visitable), and the bus goes from DC to Richmond, so perhaps on one leg or another of the trip, we can meet up!
auglochorelle, where in the Dakotas are you? Right now, I seem to have Montana pretty well covered, but the Dakotas and Wyoming are still pretty open.
Naturally, we are willing to repay crash-space generosity with art, cleaning, and cooking. (Mac has some pretty great dishes!) It’s only fair.
Yeah, let’s not even engage the toxic asshole. Trip planning!
RE: bras
This probably sounds very silly for me to say, but I kind of hope that I never have to wear a bra once I transition. They just look so inconvenient to wear for some reason. I’m probably completely wrong since I have yet to wear a bra, but that’s how I currently feel.
Dammit, I just got here and had to backtrack three pages to find out what in hell a “Muppet bra” is.
Bras are inconvenient. Even the comfy ones turn into torture chambers some days. The bra’s the first thing off when I get home from work.
Aaaand, I see if I had just stuck around another minute I could have saved myself all that scrolling. Oh well.
@Fibinachi:
“Obsidian, do you know what consent *is*?”
O: My understanding of “enthusiastic consent” as I’ve read about it from leading Feminist writers online, is that the Man is to verbally ask for permission at every point in the seduction, and if the Woman doesn’t reply with the same verbal “yes/no” response, he is to STOP. Given the very high price a Man – especially a Black one (Brian Banks, anyone?) can and likely will pay for violating these rules, I think it behooves a guy just to not even go there.
So…what’s he to do otherwise? Seems to me like we really don’t care what the guy does after that.
“I really don’t mean that as a coy insinuation of anything. The question is sincere – it seems to me as if you’ve… constructed this strange world wherein a man must have form signed in triplicate by three witnesses before even touching someone.
A world wherein hugging someone without express written permission and a strict time limit is a direct offense, worthy of jail time.”
O: This is per the Feminists’ admonitions, and I for one take them very seriously.
“… You don’t have to ask “May I?” every time you do anything? You know this. I know this. So my only three conclusions must be – you’re kidding, you don’t know, or I’m reading you wrong.”
O: Nope, I’m being dead serious and taking the Feminists’ at their word. Remember Fibinachi, I’m a Brotha – the simple truth of it is, that I have a much higher chance of running afoul of the Law than many of the guy readers/commenters here do. So it behooves someone like me to heed what the Feminists’ are saying here.
@Fibinachi:
“”Also, if it’s a buzzkill for someone to be asked whether or whether not they want to make out until lights start sparkling in their insides, I really – really! – recommend you don’t make out with them. Like, ever. Because they’re not the kind of people willing to communicate what they want out of life, and frankly, I don’t have time to deal with that and neither does anyone else. I hope. For their own good.”
O: Agreed.
““What are these guys supposed to do”? Well, get a hobby. NO, really, get a hobby. Do something with their lives that doesn’t involve an endless chase to get laid, because if they spend 100 % of their time worrying about their dates then they’re very bad dates – they have nothing to think or talk about being an ejaculation inside someone.
Would you date someone desperate?”
O: Actually, I’m all for hobbies. In fact, you will precisely what you just said in this respect in many pickup spaces.
“Talk to people. If A doesn’t work, talk to B. Realize that you’ll face both rejection and mutual attraction. Maybe they should talk to strangers, or wonder if they’re looking for masturbation puppets more than a relationship and if so, whether that’s really a good idea. Basic stuff, recommended by both Gamesters, Gentlemen and most advice columns. Everywhere.”
O: Personally speaking, Social circle Game doesn’t work, because I always wind up with subpar looking Women who are nevertheless “nice” – see, there’s a flipside to the Nice Guy(TM) issue too – the Nice Gal(TM)! Who woulda thunk that? Ha!
“But seriously, is your idea of Feminist Sex Advice a man groveling before a woman, on his knees, weepingly asking “May I?” before kissing her toes? It fits the idea of a Tyrannical Matriarch , but, really now…”
O: Well, what DO they mean, then Fibinachi? The Pickup approach is out, fine. The harassment thing ain’t no good, gotcha. “Yes means yes!” – sounds good to me – but if what you’re saying is to be believed, then even that may not be what they say it is.
Can you see how a guy can wind up utterly confused and frustrated?
“… I’m sorry that happened to you, but you realize… This is normal?
People telling you you should date other people is… pretty normal. Someone bursting into tears because of rejection is… pretty normal?”
O: I never claimed otherwise…just that it was highlighting an issue that rarely gets discussed because far too many guys remain quiet about it. I say it’s time we got very vocal about it, so Women in general know what’s up and Women in particular put a stop to it. It’s annoying, it’s a drag and it’s disrespectful as all get out…
@Fibinachi:
“”Perhaps this strikes a chord, because only last night, following my summer job of archery practice I had to have this very conversation with someone trying to sneak into my bed.”
O: Ah, so you know what I’m talking about, huh?
“… You realize… Not… Being attracted to someone.. is okay?”
O: Not to let a lot of Women tell, NO, it’s NOT OK. You, as a Man, are to be a walking Ever Ready Phallus, there on demand. And if you don’t fancy her like that, something’s wrong with you, all her/your people are trying to shame you, etc et al. It’s a bunch of bunk, Man.
“And if people give you flak for it… It’s their fault, generally speaking? You had this entire triade going earlier about how no one, you got it! Totally!, deserves sex and how it really is up to the individuals… but did you just back track on that?”
O: How have I backtracked on what I said earlier? My position hasn’t changed; the point is that the young lady in question felt that way, and she wasn’t the last one to feel that way either. And I don’t see ANYBODY upbraiding them the way Men are routinely upbraided along these lines. That’s my point…
“Seriously, man. I had someone I work with tell me I was a shell of a man with a character I had and a soul buried beneath all the questions I dodge in casual conversation and how I was probably secretively gay, anyway, but really, why didn’t I let someone into my otherwise bleak and broken heart less than 12 hours ago and… That sucks, but some people just can’t handle rejection.
That’s normal.”
O: In the Public Mind, all of this is NOT a “unisex” issue; it’s seen and framed SOLELY as a “Man” issue, and ONLY when someone like me raises Hell about it, does someone tack on “and Women, too!” at the end, like an afterthought or something. It’s deeply insulting. And no, I am not buying this idea that guys should just shrug it off like you’re suggesting here. I say Men need to start speaking up about things like this – really, really loudly.
“That’s not a flipside of anything. And your friends where invested in setting you up, so obviously they’re angry at you now. Remember, they see the tears and the drama. Your lack of emotion is generally not something anyone can work with.”
O: My “lack of emotion” had nothing to do with it; it had EVERYTHING to do with my socalled people attempting to foist someone on me that I had less than zero sexual interest in – period. And yes, this IS indeed the flipside of the issues often discussed along these lines, and again, you’ve seen it firsthand how insulting and disrespectful this is, and Women in particular need to hear this so they know and understand that a lot of guys don’t like it either, and to encourage them to step to their lady friends and put them in check on all of this.
“Come on.
Coooomee oooon.”
O: I suppose the phrase “Hell hath no fury like a Woman scorned” is alien to you, hmm? See, rejection is something that is really tilted toward guys; when it comes to Women, if they fancy you, and you don’t fancy them back, and you don’t acede to their demands, you’re gay, mean, got a small penis, you name it – and she can’t be upbraided for it because of “Woman’s perogative”. I’m telling you, I’ve experienced far and away more than my fair share of that kind of stuff and it really gets on your nerves after awhile, especially since sometimes, some of these very same Women will turnaround and complain about being harassed on the street, on the job, a school or whatever. ???
Come on, indeed…
O.
Ally — I know a male bodied genderqueer person who likes bras. I guess they’re easier to get to fit right if you’re wearing falsies. Idk about the results of hormones and real breasts though. I did know a b cup girl in HS who never wore more than a sports bra (until prom, she made a duct tape band for nipple coverage for that, and it was awesome).
The people who really hate them seem to be at least a D cup though, sooooo many bras are made for people in the A-C range.
—-
And this thread literally put me to sleep btw. Statistics on the differences between lurker and regular or lurkers everyone else or regulars…you get the picture = more interesting.
On that note, I’ve run the answers to the “do you feel accepted…” question for the vast majority of variables (though, besides gay/bi/straight, they’ve all been the check ONE questions). And age v regular/lurker/etc.
Anything else you want to see?
—-
The only variable that produced a statistically significant difference in acceptance at Manboobz? Us bi/pan/omnisexual folks feel MORE accepted than our heterosexual boobzers (who feel equally as accepted as non-straight people do)
So yeah, the only variable that isn’t “we all feel accepted here” is bi/pan/omnisexual people feelings MORE accepted.
Go have cookies guys, you deserve ‘em.
—-
If this is an okay thing to ask, what does NDN mean? I’ve seen it elsewhere but feel like I’m making an ass out of myself asking, but hey, y’all are accepting, might as well risk being told that it isn’t an okay thing to ask.
Well, unless you like upsetting people where they will be either too stunned by your cruelty or too fearful of losing their job to fight back. Because ALPHA DOG, donchaknow.
I’ll get back to his wallotext.
LBT — probably outside your price range, but this is supposedly a pretty good light weight tent.
Depending why you want a tent, you could also go the waterproof sleeping bag and tarp route (seriously, carry a tarp, or two, you do not want to pitch a tent over wet ground). And smallish caves are good, if you can map those out, don’t want one big enough to have a bear or shit in it, but an overhang and tarp makes for pretty good protection from rain.
Oh and I totally understand why you don’t want to risk it, but there are still decent people who pick up hitch hikers — my ex-FWB for example. (Obviously that’s an FYI not a “you should totally do it!”)
Argenti-
I was out-of-town when you posted the survey. It’s probably too late to take it, but can I see a link to the original questions?
@Hellkell:
“OF: I’m not trying to shame you by saying you’re a shit human. You’re clearly impervious to shame. If you weren’t you wouldn’t be typing the shit you type.”
O: OK…
“Something tells me that online you and offline you are probably very similar–but not in the badass way you think–, because you’re shown here that you are a weasel-worded, mealy-mouthed, all around chickenshit supremely dishonest motherfucker.”
O: Actually, you wouldn’t know me much at all; I don’t tout myself as a “badass”, but let’s just say that you don’t grow up in North Philly, etc, and not know how to handle yourself. Nor have I ever been known to mince words – to people’s faces, like the young lady I discussed.
“I hope you get a big blast of self-awareness one day.”
O: We all are eternal students, Ms. HK…
O.
So I’m the only bra-wearing person who doesn’t hate the things? I don’t find mine particularly uncomfortable. Might just be that since I’ve been wearing one since I was 9 I don’t remember what it was like not to, but even comparing sleepytime (no bra) with the rest of the time I don’t feel like it makes that much of a difference. I also find underwire bras more comfortable than the kind with just elastic underneath.
Coming back to this thread again and Obsidian Files tells me, in response to my post saying that my experience of one-night-stands have been two people enthusiastically and reciprocally engaging in sex, thus no difficulty in knowing whether the other person consent or not, that this kind of sex isn’t for all men.
Um, okay. So apparently I’ve only had sex with men who are hot enough (?) for me to get enthusiastic over. But men who aren’t that hot must settle for women who… idk… mostly just lie there? Which makes it very difficult to know if the woman consents or not?
This is so WTF that I don’t even… Look. Although people’s taste differ, obviously some men will be considered hot by lots of people because their looks confirm more to conventional attractiveness norms. So if someone were to point out that some men can easily get one night stands and for others it’s way more difficult, fine, I’m not gonna object to that. But OF seems to be saying, rather, that some men get enthusiastic sex and others non-enthusiastic…? Like WTF?
He says he’s telling me what things are like “from the other side” – the other side of what? Some kind of dimensional barrier that separates OF:s universe from ours?
Cassandra-
I also don’t mind bras. I recently got fitted and got some very comfortable ones. I don’t even know how I was running in my old sports “bra”.
That said, it’s hot here and I frequently shed mine ASAP at home.
LBT, I don’t want this to come across as if I am romanticizing homelessness (so totally not) but I have to say that your plan to turn it into an opportunity for seeing the country is inspiring. Ugh, I hope that doesn’t sound too patronizing because I really mean it. I had this dream for a while about hiking the Appalachian Trail, or at least a stretch of it. After my rape I spent a lot of time not wanting to be alone where there might be other people, so no more hiking. And then I got sick. And now that I am off the meds, I want to get my body back to my pre-illness state of health and general fitness. Having a hiking goal would give me something to work toward.
He comes to us from the other side of the invisible barrier between amoral assholes and decent human beings. What’s odd is that he thinks he’s the first person that we’ve heard speaking from that perspective.
RE: Ally S
Obviously, as a trans man, I come from a different direction, but I LOATHED bras. In my mind, they are evil, expensive torture devices, and I seriously considered celebrating my top surgery by burning one. (I didn’t. Seemed a bad thing to expose my city neighbors to.)
RE: ObsidianFile
My understanding of “enthusiastic consent” as I’ve read about it from leading Feminist writers online, is that the Man is to verbally ask for permission at every point in the seduction, and if the Woman doesn’t reply with the same verbal “yes/no” response, he is to STOP. Given the very high price a Man – especially a Black one (Brian Banks, anyone?) can and likely will pay for violating these rules, I think it behooves a guy just to not even go there.
Wow, it’s rare that I actually have a relevant blog entry for things, but this time, I totally do!
Now, back to travel planning. My GOD, why do buses not go to Ohio?
Regarding bras, I think it’s most comfortable to go without, but it’s not uncomfortable to wear one either. Ally, you probably don’t have to worry – in my experience, those women who say bras are uncomfortable are those with big boobs who have trouble finding a version that fits really well. But AFAIK most women who transition end up having small to medium-sized boobs, unless they add silicone. I’ve heard that you generally end up having boobs, after hormones only but no silicone, which are one to two cup sizes smaller than the average cis woman in your family.
Oh, sorry, should be “one to two cup sizes smaller than the average cis WOMAN’S [boobs] in your family”. Boobs that are one to two cup sizes smaller than an entire woman would be burdensome indeed…
RE: CassandraSays
I was wearing bras at ten, and hated them even then. It was this awful punishing exercise where I’d get “caught” without a bra and get chastised, so for a while, we had this paranoid behavior where we were constantly worried someone was checking us for a bra. Eventually, we caved, but hated every minute. (Then again, I also had a form of chest pain where bralessness was pretty much the only thing that worked.)
RE: Argenti
Hmmm, tarp and sleeping bag also might work okay (though still has the issue of sleeping on wet ground). And while I’ve hitchhiked before, amazingly successfully, it was kind of an act of desperation (I wanted OUT of Whakatani!) and not something I’d care to repeat. Unfortunately, I’m not that knowledgeable about setting up tarps. Might be time to hit up the zine library, and ask my fellow scruffies…
RE: gillyrosebee
I’m not offended at all. And I hope you do get to do that hike someday! Sometimes I worry I’m romanticizing everything to myself, but if I have to make the choice between cheerfully deluded and miserably depressed, I think I’ll take deluded. And oddly, my rape mostly made me feel more comfortable alone or around strangers. (The people who’ve hurt me the worst are invariably the people who were meant to be our nearest and dearest.)
Some days, yes. Though I generally find lacy bras sexier than lacy panties, personally, so even if I didn’t have to wear one, I would want to wear one sometimes just because. I used to have a few really expensive racy ones that I would wear anytime I needed that extra boost of confidence to get me through an interview or the like.
That’s so weird, being chastised for not wearing a bra. I’m suddenly very grateful for my mother’s very matter of fact approach to body stuff – she offered bras as an option when it became obvious that I had boobs, but there was no pressure, it was up to me to choose, and she never policed what I wore.
The survey questions — hope that link works, I’m on my iPad currently and the mobile version…meh. (Though the google drive app is actually better than excel for deleting empty columns)
“Now, back to travel planning. My GOD, why do buses not go to Ohio?”
Amtrak Pennslyvanian line goes at least part way through the state. Gets expensive fast though, like, Pittsburgh to CT by train cost as much or more than flying, and only $20~30 of that was metro north.
Philly train station has like, a mini Quincy market food wise though. (And no, it isn’t easier to decide what to eat!)
“though still has the issue of sleeping on wet ground”
Take a spare, use one+ to make shelter, and one to keep your ass dry (my worst camping experience involved it raining during the night and our CAVE leaking!)…dude atop the cave in his water proof “mummy” bag was fine though.
Give me a sec, I’m sure I can dig up info on pitching a tarp.
RE: CassandraSays
Oh yeah, in my family, the bra was one of the most contentious aspects of puberty. We got away without shaving our legs without too much trouble, but try and go without the bra and we’d get pulled aside and scolded. And if we were out and about, we’d then be left for hours horribly paranoid that wee fifth-grade us was so obviously braless and that everyone was silently repulsed and judging us, but being unable to do anything about it. It was awful. I DO NOT miss those days. What brief, “Yay, boobies!” feelings we had as kids were quickly annihilated by the sheer amount of trouble they caused us.
Regarding enthusiastic consent: even though, as Cliff says, the term is imperfect, I think the best way to explain the idea is to say that enthusiastic consent is any form of consent that is completely unambiguous (which should be verbal, although technically it doesn’t have to be).
RE: Argenti
That might be a good way for me to go about it. That tent you linked looked really nice, but yeah, expensive. If I can DIY it, I figure it’d be really useful for me. (Also, seeing my housing situation, the idea of being able to make myself a tiny little home wherever I am sounds deeply reassuring.)
(Notes that the bra conversation seems to have done the trick. I guess talking about boobs in a non-sexualized way is like kryptonite for misogynists.)
YAY! Cookies! (I’ll take any excuse to have a cookie!!)
Say it out loud and you’ll get 98% of it, Argenti. Some folk use it as a way to say Indian that sidesteps the whole historical oops that the European arrivals to north America made. People try to reverse engineer it into one of a range of acronyms, but it is my impression that it started as a way to say “inn DEE inn” without saying Indian. My experience is that there is a good deal of scoffing at it (one of these days my aunt’s eyes are gonna roll right out of her head), but my experience is admittedly limited.
@RG:
“Gilly – I agree with you. I’m not in the business of publicly shaming and policing other grown-ups. Unless someone is doing something really crappy (a long berating, or assaulting someone), I’ll wait until later to address their behavior in private. Hell, I did this after my 4th of July party. My (male) friend was being a shit to my other (male) friend. I privately told him that he was obviously hurting my friend with his mean-spirited jokes. I only mention genders since OF asserts none of us have empathy for men. OF doesn’t care about empathy; he just wants others to hurt because he has.”
O: Actually, no, I’ve never been “hurt” in the way you suggest; annoyed, yea; offended, occasionally. But “hurt”?
Nah.
And I maintain what I said – in these kinds of discussions in the wider public discourse, we really don’t care what happens to guys. We just don’t.
And, on top of that, we EXPECT them to “Man Up”, all the while also EXPECTING them to be “empathetic” largely to Women and anyone else who isn’t straight and Male. Orwell would be proud.
O.
Seconding the childhood bra thing. I developed pretty early (and then pretty rapidly) but even before I had, I remember my grandmother (mother’s side, SUPER MEGA CATHOLIC) nearly screaming at me because I had gone outside (I think I was about 7) without a tshirt on JUST LIKE ALL MY COUSINS. Of course they were boys and I was not. I didn’t have breasts at that point, but I would some day, so I had to wear a tshirt.
That’s awesome. It’s sad that parents who don’t police their children’s clothing are so rare these days (as far as I can tell, at least).
…oh. Overthinking it for the win >.<
LBT —
Some basic super simple tarp set ups — http://www.trailspace.com/forums/beginners/topics/120382.html
Some more complex designs — http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/shelter/tarpology-setting-up-your-tarp-in-different-configurations.html
And what looks like the holy grail of cheap camping — http://www.tarptent.com/projects/tarpdesign.html
That one does require some sewing and what not, but a mosquito net and zipable door are lacking on your standard "stick poles in the ground, slide tarp ring over them, tie/weigh down ends".
Even carrying stakes and a couple of poles, they're still WAY lighter and cheaper than a pre made tent.
And I forgot one Very Important Thing. If you're carrying food, which I assume you will be, take some sort of bag you can hoist into trees, and hoist it up a bit away from your camp site. You do not want to attract big animals. (And bodily functions don't mix with water sources, and make like a cat and bury them)
Actually, if you can find a used Boy Scout manual, it should have all the basics to wilderness survival.
Yeah, I don’t plan on wearing falsies or anything like that because I’m much more focused on actual bodily changes. Like, in addition to hormones, I want to try to get breast augmentation surgery done some time in my life. I’m hoping I can get breasts that aren’t bigger than a B (although I’m not even sure if it’s possible to have C+ breasts as a result of surgery in the first place) so I can avoid wearing bras.
Lol, you know the rope scene in Boondock Saints? Wtf do you need the rope for? Among other potentional things, hoisting food out of the reach of larger animals.
I’d also spent a bit researching edible plants in the areas you’ll be in. I know up here we have wild blueberries and they are AMAZING. That’s half “because it might save your ass” and half “because they can be so much better than store bought food”.
LBT, I go to college in the Fargo/Moorhead area, so right on the border between North Dakota and Minnesota. I won’t be there until late August when school starts up again, though.
And bras – I’ve only had trouble with bras when there was a sizing issue or when they had wire or padding. I bought a new t-shirt bra that’s downright comfortable. Then again, I have a small cup size, so YMMV.
Ally — you should be fine then. And yeah, you can get HUGE implants, but for average female sized breasts, why bother?
My mother has silly large breasts (like, I talked her into letting me measure, she’d be like a J cup or something) — she refuses to deal with bras and wears undershirts to keep them sorta in place. Her sisters are both B~ cups and neither seems to mind bras any. So YMMV is totally true.
Regarding mosquitoes… I picked up some Benadryl anti-itch cream earlier and am loving it. First stuff I’ve ever used that actually helped any!
Totally going in my emergency kit (which contains things for such “emergencies” as needing a computer speaker! [hey! It was useful yesterday! One of the techs where my mother works took an online certification test and needed speakers for it, the office doesn't, have any, I did. Emergency speaker justified!])
RE: Ally S
Agreed on enthusiastic consent bit. My rapist was a rules laywer type; once I said yes, it didn’t matter how or what got it out of me–I had Officially Agreed To One (1) Instance of Sex, and it couldn’t be undone. It didn’t matter if I just laid there and cried the entire time, it satisfied his ideas of consent. (And mine for a long time too–I didn’t know there was anything else.)
RE: Argenti
You are godsauce. Am reading up on those right now! And yes, I DEFINITELY want to know more about edible plants. The more I can forage, the better. And I did know about the rope bit–though the joke was, “Bears? Fuck bears, this is to keep KIDS out of your shit.” At the time, I thought she was joking, but sure enough, some pubescent twits tried to dig into my food and I had to shout at them.
Sooner, rather than later, I hope.
Of course, in my deepest of dreams lately I have been thinking of getting an old school bus and doing this to it
and then roaming about the country wherever the weather takes me.
I think that a large component of happiness is deciding to be. It doesn’t get you all the way there, and plenty of stuff will put you behind go, but it is a big piece. I’m just learning how to internalize this for myself now.
Random, and I’m not an outdoorsy person, but friends who are swear by peanut butter as a good thing to carry in terms of emergency food. It’s high in calories, fairly nutritious, and stable in a variety of conditions. There’s a reason that at least one org is now using it as the basis of their famine-relief efforts.
@Dvar:
“Coming back to this thread again and Obsidian Files tells me, in response to my post saying that my experience of one-night-stands have been two people enthusiastically and reciprocally engaging in sex, thus no difficulty in knowing whether the other person consent or not, that this kind of sex isn’t for all men.”
O: Yes, I was hoping we’d revisit that topic…
“Um, okay. So apparently I’ve only had sex with men who are hot enough (?) for me to get enthusiastic over. But men who aren’t that hot must settle for women who… idk… mostly just lie there? Which makes it very difficult to know if the woman consents or not?”
O: Well, it seems to me that we’ve all agreed that under such “Rules of Engagement”, the guy is to simply NOT GO THERE – right? I mean, he’s not getting the “enthusiastic consent” you clearly gave to quite a few Men on your numerous one night stands – right? And I know, for one, that I certainly wouldn’t chance going there if I’m the “non-hot” guy. It’s just too risky, too much to lose. I’m just pulling the plug and calling it a night.
“This is so WTF that I don’t even… Look. Although people’s taste differ, obviously some men will be considered hot by lots of people because their looks confirm more to conventional attractiveness norms. So if someone were to point out that some men can easily get one night stands and for others it’s way more difficult, fine, I’m not gonna object to that. But OF seems to be saying, rather, that some men get enthusiastic sex and others non-enthusiastic…? Like WTF?”
O: Well – would what I’m saying along these lines be untrue? I mean, take the non-hot guy – clearly, he can’t make a hot one night stand of the variety you’ve talked about happen, because by definition, he’s not the kind of guy who can make such things happen. Right?
So, he has to go the “long” route…dating, courting and so on. If things go route, he might be able to “grow on her” enough for him to make something happen along those lines. However, and interestingly enough, I read an article about this on Captain Awkward, “The Art of No” I think it was called, the chances of him not getting another date is high. Especially if he’s going the online dating route, which is what CA was specifically talking about.
Mr. Not Hot Guy may have done everything right, and just came up short regardless. It happens A LOT. Much, much more than we’d like to admit. Which is why we don’t talk about it, on either “side” of the debate, because everyone knows it happens and no one has legitimate rejoinder to it. Dude is just stuck. Meanwhile, girlfriend has had a nice night out on the town and has saved her from the boredom of whatever was going on at home. This is what CA has actually said on her blog.
“He says he’s telling me what things are like “from the other side” – the other side of what? Some kind of dimensional barrier that separates OF:s universe from ours?”
O: What I mean by that is the respective “camps” – the Feminist one, which is NOT entirely made up of Women I might add, and the Manosphere one.
At any right Dvar, my point to you was that a key component in your having so many one night stands was that you had the good fortune to be with guys who were just hot enough for you, to go there. But that is not the norm, heck, YOU, as a Woman, are not the norm. Most Women don’t have tons of one night stands to begin with, to say nothing of hitting a lucky streak run of hot guys to have said ONS’ with. Just doesn’t happen that way.
Most guys aren’t hot enough to get a Woman to say “Yes!” to a one night stand with him, which means, if he wants to have any hope of having a romantic relationship at all, he’s gotta go the whole dating route…which is…not very efficient. And potentially expensive.
That’s all I’m saying.
I get what all of you are saying about the consent thing, and I’m on board with it for reasons I’ve made clear throughout the discussion. All I’m saying is that it sounds downright cruel to leave guys like the awkward and clueless, NOT the douches, out there twisting in the wind, on their own. True, it ain’t the responsibility of the Feminists to do it, and clearly you guys don’t like the PUA approach; and the Feminist-friendly guys, for whatever reason, don’t see fit to educate their brethren on how to get er done either. It’s almost like we’re telling them, either you got it or you don’t and if you don’t, too bad.
I mean…wow…
O.
RE: augochlorella
Well, I wouldn’t be in your neck of the woods until October at the earliest anyway. (And probably more like November.) I very well might drop by, though!
Poor men, totally unable to Google things or sign up for dating services without outside help.
Um, I’m pretty sure “treat women like human beings, have sex with women who want to have sex with you” has been said to every man at least once. Will saying it over and over again get the point across?
“how to get er done.” I’m pretty sure that high school Biology covers this pretty well.
@Cassandra:
“(Notes that the bra conversation seems to have done the trick. I guess talking about boobs in a non-sexualized way is like kryptonite for misogynists.)”
O: If you’re referring to me, I’m not a misogynist, one, and two, I don’t make it a habit of discussing body parts like that. Just not my way.
O.
Truly, the fact that the world doesn’t stop and make teaching guys who aren’t getting laid as much as they would like how to get laid more often is an epic tragedy and the most important issue of our times. Acknowledging the fact that some people just aren’t all that desirable to others and this means that there may be no ethical way for them to get laid as much as they’d like is a crime against humanity.
Anyway, back to the bra conversation! I really think a lot of it is about fit, like with any other kind of clothing. Bras that fit poorly are uncomfortable, bras that fit well less so. Bigger boobs make any discomfort more obvious because of both their weight and the fact that it’s harder to find bras to fit them.
CS: Holy crap he’s still doing it! This one really is as immune to mockery as he is to the idea that women are people.
CS: Everyone should type like this until he realizes how idiotic it looks.
CS.
“Why aren’t feminists doing more to help men have sex with women who don’t want to have sex with them?”
Because feminists don’t support rape or manipulation?
GRB: He’s more than a little oblivious, so that’s gonna take a while.
GRB.
RE: CassandraSays
Peanut butter is great stuff. I plan to carry it, potatoes, bread, carrots, hard-boiled eggs, dried-fruit, and nuts at all times. Decently balanced, lasts without fridge, can be eaten on their own or cooked together. (Plus lentils, just because I like lentils and they last forever.)
RE: ObsidianFiles
I’m a gay man, and even if I weren’t married and mono, there is literally not a person alive hot enough for me to risk a one-night stand on them. I don’t care if Gregory Kieth dropped out of the sky and threw himself at me.
At this point, I wish sex work would be legalized. On top of all the other reasons, maybe then these guys would stop acting like a sex shortage is so incredibly awful. Am I just MISSING some key component of my male brain or something? What the hell?
@LBT — if you’re going to forage, make sure you know your shit and you have good maps. Christopher McCandless walked out into the wilds of Alaska without good maps, started eating the wrong plant because he misidentified it, and starved to death because he got into a caloric tailspin. He got stranded in a flood and could have hiked out via an alternate route if he’d known about it.
Sorry if I’m lecturing y’all, and I’m hardly an authority on camping out (if Pecunium wanders past, maybe he can give you advice), but I got worried when you started talking about it.
(Incidentally, Google is a wonderful search engine, albeit a government stool pigeon. I didn’t remember McCandless’ name, but after a Google search for “this guy starved to death in alaska” ….)
@Ugh:
“Poor men, totally unable to Google things or sign up for dating services without outside help.”
O: As I indicated earlier, Jon Millward out of the UK has conducted an interesting study which shows that online dating isn’t very helpful for most guys; this corroborates in-house studies done by OKC itself:
http://jonmillward.com/blog/attraction-dating/cupid-on-trial-a-4-month-online-dating-experiment/
If I can find the OKTrends link I’ll post it. Interestingly enough, online dating doesn’t work for most guys for much the same reasons that I discussed with Dvar why most guys don’t get one night stands – because they’re in no way “hot” enough in the eyes of many (most?) Women.
““how to get er done.” I’m pretty sure that high school Biology covers this pretty well.”
O: The mechanics of reproduction? Definitely. But teaching Seduction? Attractiveness? Grooming? Body language? Last time I checked, no Biology class, high school or anywhere else, was teaching that…
O.
But you’re upbraiding them right this moment.
Literally.