Long Weekend Open Thread
Like a lot of people in the US of A, I am taking a long weekend. Posting may be a little light for a bit. So here’s an open thread for everyone else taking a long weekend. Or not. Use this thread for anything that’s not personal. Like misogyny, politics, kitties, you know the drill. (Though kitties are welcome in all threads, of course.)
I am hoping my long weekend turns out a bit better than that of the people in the Australian movie of that name from 1978, which I keep meaning to see. Apparently their little beach vacation doesn’t go so well, and they are attacked by … nature? At one point, I believe, they face off against an enraged dugong. (No, really.) The movie was recently remade, but apparently the remake wasn’t as good.
Stay tuned for more reviews of movies I haven’t seen and that I’m just giving vague impressions of based on things I’ve heard somewhere.
Posted on July 5, 2013, in off topic, open thread. Bookmark the permalink. 1,365 Comments.
OF, if you have better things to do than holla at women, why are you so hell bent on defending it?
No, it’s not a contradiction for me to care more about women being harassed than I care about dudes not getting their dicks wet.
Have you ever been harassed? You guys think you’d like it, but you wouldn’t.
@Amnesia:
“Obsidian Files, you really don’t have to make things that complicated.”
O: Again – if you’re not a Man, you really do not know what you are talking about. Ask Norah Vincent.
“Suppose you really wanted to go bowling, but nobody else you like wants to go bowling with you. Would you drag someone kicking and screaming to the bowling alley just so you didn’t have to bowl alone? Would you take someone who might not put up much of a physical resistance, but won’t speak to you the whole time because they really didn’t want to come? You’d be a jackass if you did.”
O: No doubt; but are you really equating human mating with a night out at the bowling alley? Hmm…
“So what could you do? Well, you can always just go bowling by yourself. Or, if you really want to bowl with others, you could join a league, or meet up with people online, or see if anybody at the bowling alley would let you join their game.”
O: Yes, you could – and your chances for success would be higher than if you’re a guy trying your hand at online dating – again, I cite the researches of Jon Millward in this regard…
“Just use that same kind of logic when it comes to sex. Seriously, it’s not that different. Forcing someone to do something they really don’t want to do just to satisfy you almost never ends well.”
O: We don’t disagree; what I am asking you and everyone else here, is – what can the guy do to get dates and sex? We already know what he is NOT to do. Fine. Agreed.
Now…what DOES he do?
Your thoughts?
“Also, if you think not being able to get dates as a heterosexual male is awful, imagine if you were homosexual or trans or otherwise outside the gender binary where the options are a lot more limited just based on numbers. Do you imagine for a second that a gay guy should have as much right to having his boner pleased by someone else as you seem to think a hetero guy should?”
O: From what I understand, Gay Men have options like Grindr – something that is a nonstarter for the vast majority of straight Men, because straight Women do not like “hooking up” in such a manner.
Moreover, that trans/gay Men having difficulty in this regard, while no doubt regrettable, still does not negate the point I am making; even if the (straight) guy in question had much empathy for the other “alt” guys, that still doesn’t change the fact that the (straight) guy has a problem, and precious few options as to where to go to resolve it…
O.
By that logic, the popularity of shooter games must mean that all men want to be shot with machine guns. Even the ones who don’t actually like those games.
Wizards of the Coast makes millions of dollars each year with Magic: The Gathering. I guess lots of people really want to duel to the death and enslave other creatures to fight for them, then.
Jesus, this is really your entire argument, isn’t it? HOW DO WEEE KNOOOOWWW FER SUUUUURRE?
How do we know for sure that women on the street DON’T like to be shouted at?
How do we know for sure when a woman is into sex?
How do we know for sure that that cute girl at the library desk ISN’T into being given random and mysterious things by men who demand that she hold out her hand to receive them, all moist and warm, from their iron grip?
@Hellkell:
“OF, if you have better things to do than holla at women, why are you so hell bent on defending it?”
O: I don’t smoke either, but I am a fierce defender of the right of others to partake if they so choose…
“No, it’s not a contradiction for me to care more about women being harassed than I care about dudes not getting their dicks wet.”
O: I didn’t ask you about that. I asked you about people you didn’t know at all.
“Have you ever been harassed? You guys think you’d like it, but you wouldn’t.”
O: Actually, I HAVE been street harassed, by God-awful ugly and/or old Women, numerous times, in fact. And do you know what happened? People – INCLUDING WOMEN – laughed.
Like I said – so much for empathy, when it comes to the lives of Men…
O.
A Google search of “Dating services” yields 684 million results.
Are you seriously arguing that street harassers are so stupid that it is the job of feminists to Google things for them?
Knows he deserves empathy for being street harassed.
Wants to defend people who street harass women.
Only men deserve empathy, amirite?
You do realise all this capitalising of nouns just makes you look even more pretentious and stupid than you did already.
I repeat: this is not a dating site. It’s not a lonely hearts site. I’m with hellkell on this one: I don’t give a shit what guys do in their social lives (ooh, there’s a hint! Social lives!) as long as they’re being decent human beings. I don’t date, I can’t imagine ever wanting to, and I have nothing but scorn for some douchebag who comes here demanding we give the poor sad menz who’ve never grown up point-by-point advice on how to get their precious dicks wet.
“O: Tell that to the multi-billion dollar per year romance novel business…”
That’s like thinking that every Fight Club fan is OK with getting beat up. It’s *fantasy*. What part of this is hard to understand?
“O: Well, for one thing, per you and others’ recommendations, the guy is supposed to listen to what she actually said – right? I know I would; it just ain’t worth it for me to try to figure out “what she really meant”.
Um, exactly? She’s not worth it, so ditch her. Again, you are making your boner more important than others’ safety.
“O: Again, if that were true, especially when it comes, pardon the pun, to guys, this entire issue would be a nonstarter, because most guys would be jacking off instead of being clumsy around Women in a vain attempt to pick them up, right? Clearly, in the minds of many Men, jacking off is a less attractive option to having sex with a Woman. Make of that what you will…”
That’s like saying people need to eat lobster and chocolate cake because people will almost always choose that over what they normally eat.
“O: How do you know? Something that could start out under the rubric of it only being temporary, could very well wind up running on for years and years.”
That’s like saying someone who never eats at a restaurant is fasting.
“O: No, I don’t. I am asking you to list out just a few of those “billion ways” – please?
Come on, just a few.”
Dating site. Clubs. Ask a friend you like. Etc. I met my boyfriend because we were both in marching band and played the same instrument. See? No catcalling or Game involved!
Reading comprehension fail part eleventy-three. Hellkell said nothing about people she knows being harassed. She was talking about harassment of women in general, ie. people she doesn’t know.
Ooo my little parrot is being so cute. He is cuddled up under my neck(I’m laying on my back in bed) and now he’s fallen asleep. His head is tucked in under his wing and he is mumbling to himself.
Holy argument from authority batman.
I am a man, or a “Man,” if you will, and I say masturbation is perfectly acceptable and enjoyable and is a sexual pursuit that men can enjoy without having to pester women.
OF: I don’t personally know the multitudes of women being harassed everyday, but I do care about it.
So if your harassers had been pretty and young,you’d have been ok? So you deserve empathy, but no one else does? Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ.
Your world is a scary, fucked-up place. I’m glad it isn’t the real world.
Does anyone who’s been here long enough to remember B—-n and Some Guy Bored With Your Schtick think Obtuse Fuckwit is even more tedious than them?
Also, curious how Brz disappeared and hardly any time later OhFuckOff turned up on this thread. Two incredibly boring bonerdroners, or one?
Auggz, squee! Wish I could see a picture of him. :)
Crap, I itched my armpit and woke him up. He hates being woken up. He squealed like “hey! Don’t you fucking ruin this nap for me! I was really comfy…”
For the record, if OF was in fact harassed and just got laughed at, that’s not right either. See, OF? I don’t hardly know you, and can’t fucking stand what I do know, but I can have empathy for you.
@Hellkell:
“OF, you may be confused. This a site that mocks misogyny, not 101 Dating Tips for Clueless Dudes and Sadboners.”
O: There is no confusion; there has been much discussion outside of merely mocking misogyny, and Dave says as much in the sidebar on the site. Interesting how you and it seems, quite a few others, seem intent on doing nothing – kinda like the MRAs and the like you make fun of.
Two peas in a pod and all that…
“Why should we give dating tips again? Do you think that we all were born knowing how to connect with people?”
O: Apparently, since it is “you” that keeps saying how so “uncomplicated” the whole ball of wax is.
Nice to know you don’t have anything constructive to offer these guys, HK.
Nice to know, indeed…
@Kittensherf:
“Once again we have it, ObtuseFuck thinks not getting laid is equivalent to sexual harassment.”
O: You are mischaraterizing my statement. I am saying, that there is room for BOTH, concern for the Woman who doesn’t like being harassed on the street, AND concern for the clueless guy as to how he can get dates.
Why do you persist in an either/or scenario? Is your empathy that limited – or are you just hellbent on being so niggardly and callous with it when it comes to guys?
@Falconer:
“No, I meant people. Men and women can act entitled to sex. Men and women can commit sexual assault, sexual battery, rape, etc. It’s just, statistically speaking, the majority of people who commit sexual crimes are men, and so therefore you think you have grounds to nudge nudge, wink wink at me about what I really meant.”
O: I do, since I’ve experienced a bit of this “entitlement” coming from Women, firsthand…
“… So why all the nudge nudge, wink wink say no more last paragraph?”
O: See above…
“And will you please for the love of god stop capitalizing “men” and “women?” They aren’t proper nouns, this language we’re speaking isn’t German, and this isn’t some epic saga legend thing.”
O: Imagine if I asked you to “please, for the love of God, stop talking about your cat”? Absurd, right?
There’s your answer. Where’s your sense of tolerance for diversity, Falconer? *nudge, wink, nudge*
“Some feminists’ stuff stinks. ALL of the manosphere’s stuff stinks ALL THE TIME. If you say there are moderate MRAs, we ask (as we get so weary of asking) where are they?”
O: You’re talking to one – one who, has a demonstrated track record in terms of calling them out on their racism, over the top misogyny, you name it. And I’ve been doing it online, for years at this point.
Now, let’s address the Feminist side – where are the moderates calling their own on the carpet? Are they here, right now, busting it up with you and the Manboobz regulars, like I am?
Hmm?
“Did you miss that this was a mockery site, not an advocacy site?”
O: Did you miss that this was a site that does much more than merely “mocks” folks, Falconer? Perhaps you didn’t read what Dave says on the sidebar above?
O.
Kitteh’s: LOL at “bonerdroners,” and yes, OF is way more fucking tedious than those old trolls. What a dubious accomplishment.
@Kittehs — I don’t remember B but I do remember Schticky.
If OF isn’t more tedious than The Boring Stick, it’s a dem’ close run thing.
OF: the sidebar says, “Misogyny. I mock it” And then proceeds to say where David finds the material to mock. Can’t you read, dipshit?
Kittehserf, I don’t have a pic online of him that I can link, but he’s a blue crowned conure.
http://www.bearriverranch.com/an_Blue_Crowned_Conure.html
Being pro-street-harassment IS over-the-top misogyny.
Misogyny. I mock it.
Misogyny. I mock it.
Misogyny. I mock it.
Misogyny. I mock it.
Misogyny. I mock it.
Misogyny. I mock it.
Misogyny. I mock it.
Misogyny. I mock it.
Misogyny. I mock it.
Misogyny. I mock it.
OF: this isn’t an advocacy site, no matter how off-topic we get.
And this:
Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha? Because you ain’t got shit, son.
Here’s some constructive advice for you: fuck off.
So why the hell do you want men to treat women the same way? You know it sucks. Do you really hate women that much?
How dare you. HOW. FUCKING. DARE. YOU.
I don’t talk endlessly about my cats!
I talk endlessly about my babies!
GET IT RIGHT YOU FUCKWIT
OF, so you’re one of the best the MRM has to offer as far as “moderates”? Wow.
How adorable, OF thinks he’s “busting it up” with us. If by that he means “being our chew-toy,” OK.
JESUS IT’S LIKE YOU DON’T KNOW ME AT ALL
I THOUGHT WE HAD SOMETHING SPECIAL O
I wonder why OF feels such a deep compulsion for hellkell to Google “Dating services” for him. Like, dude, we know you can type, why don’t you do it for yourself.
ObFlake: : Yes – just how many swear words can you spew out of that hole in your head that passes for a mouth?
And you think this isn’t offensive? No, of course you do, it’s why you stoop to it, while preening that you are above such base things.
Such as…? What am I preventing you from having?
A world where I don’t have to wonder which guys think rape might necessary if they don’t have Game. A world where guys trying to Game women into “giving it up” didn’t make my friends lives less happy.
Little things like that.
It’s not the language that bothers PUA dudes when they get pushback. It’s the pushback. One of the common threads in discussions of Game is that women who have been shown what it is, are much harder targets. Women who are willing to swear at men are more confident. They are less likely to take the little slights that come with being set up as well.
So policing speech; not so much to keep them from swearing, but to make women’s response to negs, and other, “minor insults” less powerful is part of the Game. So yes, hellkell’s language is the issue.
Just not for the reasons you are implying.
For the same reason(s) why people like you keep trying to tell me why I should care about some Goth chick getting the business while walking down the street? *shrug*
Right, because being imposed on is so much the same as not getting any tail.
Way to compare apples to apples (Pippins to Road, if you must know which two).
Ugh, OF’s big thing is to type a lot of words that boil down to him wanting others to do his work. I dunno why.
Oh, wait. Yes I do, it’s because he’s a ginourmous titty-baby.
@auggziliary, SQUEEEEEEEEEE! I wish you could have gotten a picture of your little feathery snuggle!
When I was growing up, one of my aunts raised birds, and she had a green and gold macaw that she’d hand raised since he was hatched. She had a hammock on her deck that she would sit in, and he’d hop over and snuggle against her shoulder, putting his head into her hair. Then he would snooze there and woe betide anyone who made her get up or move her head!
@marcilannister, thank you for the good advice, I appreciate it!
So, since the question of “entitlement to sex/relationships” came up, and since we have agreed tha this is something that can occur on both the male and female side, I have yet another personal story to relate:
Many years ago, there was a young lady who liked me and, because she was tight with people I happened to know very closely, attempted to use those associations to insinuate herself into my life.
Now, this young lady was NOT sexually attractive to me. At. All. And my people kept trying to “push” her on me, telling me how “nice” she is, and so forth.
So, after awhile I got tired of the whole thing, and simply decided to tell the young lady that I was NOT sexually attracted to her AT ALL, and to please stop trying to push up on me. I said it very plainly, in an even, monotoned voice, looking her squarely in the eyes, and in front of many of our mutual people.
She burst into tears.
And then the “Big, Bad Meanie” treatment began – “how could you do that to her, Obsidian, she likes you!”
O: I’m NOT sexually attracted to her.
“But she’s so nice!”
O: I’m NOT sexually attracted to her.
“She would make a really nice girlfriend for you!”
O: I’m NOT sexually attracted to her.
“That ain’t right!”
O: *Zones out*
You see, this is the flipside of these kinds of discussions that rarely if ever sees the light of day – Men aren’t expected to have their own ideas and standards of what they find sexually attractive, AND to decline any alternate offers if he thinks they are subpar. If he does this, he “ain’t right”, “mean”, “selfish”, “superficial”, and if you’re Black, you’re full of “self hate”, “colorstruck” and so forth. No, it couldn’t just be, that you simply aren’t into the Woman in question due to her not being sexually attractive to you as a Man; you MUST accept her overtures, because if you don’t you’re “mean”.
There is ALWAYS a flipside, folks.
Remember that.
O.
Ehermagherd, is it Super Sale Weekend at the House of Tedious Windbags? All those long wallotext posts…
So, your point is that because people are sometimes coercive and manipulative towards men, men should be coercive and manipulative towards women? wtf
OF: your scenario happens EVRY FUCKING MINUTE to women. “Give him a chance, he’s a nice guy, blahblahblah.”
So you got a taste, and you still have no empathy? Huh.
EVERYTHING in society is pretty much set up for catering to men’s standards. FUCK OFF with your dishonest shit.
I have recently learned several solutions to crying babies, but somehow I doubt that OF would appreciate any of them.
@Unimaginative Thanks for posting that recipe! I was watering the garden this morning and was super-psyched to see that I have two zucchini plants coming up (due to some pretty substantial renovations, the garden was very delayed this year). My current favorite zucchini recipe is this one http://allrecipes.com/recipe/connies-zucchini-crab-cakes/
Tell that to the billion dollar porn industry.
OH GOD I’M SO SORRY EVERYONE
In penance, I shall now go and load the dishwasher.
BAD FALCONER! BAD, BAD FALCONER!!!
It’s OK, he would have windbagged on without you.
@Falconer Any new pictures? Your two bundles of adorable can blow a bad mood away in record time!
QFFT!!
And WTF do I need with ‘push up’ padding? If they get any higher I won’t be able to see where I am going!!
Actually, my solution (as well as an attempt to address some back pain and posture issues) is to make a corset. I’ve got a friend coming over later and we’re gonna warm up with some chardonnay and then try making a pattern with duct tape.
Will you be coming by to clean the coffee from my keyboard, or should have it done and send you the bill? ;-)
Gillyrosebee: have you thought about a long-line bra instead of a corset? Might be a bit more comfy.
Hellkell, I have and I like some things about it and didn’t like others. I’ve recently been sucked partially into the steampunk/victorian scene and started dressing up, and one of the things that surprised me about wearing a corset was how comfortable it actually turned out to be, much more so than any of the longlines I’ve tried.
A surefire anti-tedium treatment can be found here, btw.
For the record, if OF was in fact harassed and just got laughed at, that’s not right either. See, OF? I don’t hardly know you, and can’t fucking stand what I do know, but I can have empathy for you.
@Ugh:
“A Google search of “Dating services” yields 684 million results.”
O: Indeed, but the vast majority of them either aren’t geared for Men, particularly the kinds of “clueless” guys we’re talking about, or, they’re more of the “unisex in name only” kind (read: de facto services for ladies) – in other words, they don’t work. One of the dirty little secrets many on this side of the fence don’t want or like to admit is that the pickup community hit a rich vein of truth – even Clarisse Thorn, who I’m no friend of, has said as much – there simply aren’t much in the way of real services that cater to Men in this area. There just isn’t. The pickup community is filling the void, and to date, nothing else has come along with a better mousetrap. (Thorn was roundly excoriated by her Feminists sisters for saying that, by the way)
“Are you seriously arguing that street harassers are so stupid that it is the job of feminists to Google things for them?”
O: No.
“Knows he deserves empathy for being street harassed./Wants to defend people who street harass women./Only men deserve empathy, amirite?”
O: In reverse order:
No, that is not what I’m saying.
I actually think street harassment is wrong, largely because it doesn’t work.
I don’t think I “deserve” anything; what I was doing was pointing out the fact that Men don’t often get any empathy when they experience many of the very things Women deplore – least of all, from Women themselves…
@Kittensherf:
“You do realise all this capitalising of nouns just makes you look even more pretentious and stupid than you did already.”
O: *shrugs*
“I repeat: this is not a dating site.”
O: And I repeat: this is a site where a whole range of topics are discussed. This is what Dave himself has stated. Moreover, this is an “open” thread. Therefore, I felt it appropriate to just ask some questions…and the responses have been most enlightening, I must say! Good job!
“It’s not a lonely hearts site. I’m with hellkell on this one: I don’t give a shit what guys do in their social lives (ooh, there’s a hint! Social lives!) as long as they’re being decent human beings.”
O: Hence, you’re part of the problem not the solution…
“I don’t date,”
O: Hmm, I wonder why…
“I can’t imagine ever wanting to, and I have nothing but scorn for some douchebag who comes here demanding we give the poor sad menz who’ve never grown up point-by-point advice on how to get their precious dicks wet.”
O: Would it surprise you to learn that the vast majority of guys who attend seminars and bootcamps in the PUA world, just want a girlfriend? I know this, because I’ve seen it firsthand. And it is very poignant thing to see. You truly can observe a lot by looking…
@Auggzillary:
“That’s like thinking that every Fight Club fan is OK with getting beat up. It’s *fantasy*. What part of this is hard to understand?”
O: What part of what I said didn’t you understand? Are you telling me that there are no Women in the realworld who act in such ways? Really?
“Um, exactly? She’s not worth it, so ditch her. Again, you are making your boner more important than others’ safety.”
O: We’ve agreed on this point, that it is better to just bug on outta there.
NOW WHAT?
That’s what I’m asking YOU – and boy, the (non)responses is a heck of a thing to witness…
“That’s like saying people need to eat lobster and chocolate cake because people will almost always choose that over what they normally eat.”
O: If you say so…
“That’s like saying someone who never eats at a restaurant is fasting.”
O: No, it’s not…
“Dating site.”
O: Online dating is at best a timesuck and at worst a money pit for the vast majority of Men. This has been proven in studies done on the matter. Again: see Jon Millward’s researches on OKCupid.
“Clubs.”
O: Something fast becoming a thing of the past; see Putnam, “Bowling Alone”…
“Ask a friend you like.”
O: “Social circle Game” only works if you have a social circle that has available Women in them to begin with. This isn’t the case for many Men.
“Etc. I met my boyfriend because we were both in marching band and played the same instrument. See? No catcalling or Game involved!”
O: All living things on this planet has a mating strategy. It may not be Game or catcalling, but you can best believe both of you had to display your respective wares in order for the two of you to be attracted to each other.
At any rate, and including the “Etc.”, you mentioned *five* possible options – out of a “billion”.
Hmm…
@Falconer:
“Holy argument from authority batman.”
O: A legitimate one, at that; have you read “Self Made Man” by Norah Vincent?
“I am a man, or a “Man,” if you will, and I say masturbation is perfectly acceptable and enjoyable and is a sexual pursuit that men can enjoy without having to pester women.”
O: Your opinion appears to be in the distinct minority, if the actions of other Men are anything to go by. They tend to prefer sex with Women to jacking it…
@Hellkell:
“OF: I don’t personally know the multitudes of women being harassed everyday, but I do care about it.”
O: OK.
“So if your harassers had been pretty and young,you’d have been ok? So you deserve empathy, but no one else does? Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ.”
O: I never said that. As for your question, I honestly don’t know; what I do know is that them being young(er) and/or pretty certainly would not have hurt…
“Your world is a scary, fucked-up place. I’m glad it isn’t the real world.”
O: *As I type this while sitting outside on my nice, clean and safe block on a bright sunny day, waiting for the big block party going down later today…
“For the record, if OF was in fact harassed”
O: I have been, in fact, street harassed; why is that so hard for you to grok?
“and just got laughed at, that’s not right either. See, OF? I don’t hardly know you, and can’t fucking stand what I do know, but I can have empathy for you.”
O: Thanks…I think?
O.
“I actually think street harassment is wrong, largely because it doesn’t work.”
God. Just leave.
If you’re gonna sock, OF, log out first.
OF: it’s not hard for me to grok, but let’s face it, you are not exactly honest.
Uh, OF. Your nasty little slip is showing again.
@Hellkell:
“Men aren’t expected to have their own ideas and standards of what they find sexually attractive
Tell that to the billion dollar porn industry.”
O: Indeed!-and look at how much it is excoriated, largely by Women, for this?
Thank you, for making my point, Ms. HK! :)
@Ugh:
“So, your point is that because people are sometimes coercive and manipulative towards men, men should be coercive and manipulative towards women?”
O: Not at all; where did you get that from out of what I have said?
“WTF”, indeed…
@Hellkell:
“OF: your scenario happens EVRY FUCKING MINUTE to women. “Give him a chance, he’s a nice guy, blahblahblah.””
O: Indeed it does; the difference is, that there is cultural space with which Women are permitted to discuss it, and where Men are made to understand that it greatly perturbs the ladies.
Where is the reciprocity?
“So you got a taste, and you still have no empathy? Huh.”
O: Actually, I’ve gotten quite a few “tastes”. I only discussed one instance.
“EVERYTHING in society is pretty much set up for catering to men’s standards. FUCK OFF with your dishonest shit.”
O: I am not being dishonest. I am showing you the flipside of these kinds of discussions. Men are NOT allowed to have their standards for what they do and do not find attractive, because people, Women and some Men, will give said Men a hard time for it. This is wrong, and it needs to stop.
@Falconer:
“I have recently learned several solutions to crying babies, but somehow I doubt that OF would appreciate any of them.”
O: This is just as well, since I don’t have any babies…
@Hellkell:
“BAD FALCONER! BAD, BAD FALCONER!!!
It’s OK, he would have windbagged on without you.”
O: Actually, I would not have mentioned anything about “entitlement” had he not brought it up, so his doing “dishwashing penance” is appropriate… ;)
O.
weaksock.
Percentage of current relationships that began online: 20% http://www.statisticbrain.com/online-dating-statistics/
I’d wager that’s a hell of a lot better than relationships that began with street harassment.
Also, how in the fuck is it even possible for a dating service to work for women, but not for men? If a het woman gets her desired outcome, then that means a het man is also getting HIS desired outcome. Men and women are on the same damn team.
And THAT’S why there are like a billion movies featuring “not conventionally attractive dude gets the conventionally attractive girl of his dreams when she learns to appreciate his unique qualities” and… let’s see… ONE gender-flipped version, namely Hairspray (at least the original, haven’t seen the remake).
@HellKell:
“Uh, OF. Your nasty little slip is showing again.”
O: No, it’s not; there was no “slip” involved. I knew exactly what I was saying.
Street harassment, as a mating strategy (they call it “Hollaback Game” out on the streets of the inner ciy) for the most part, doesn’t work. That alone, is reason enough to refrain from doing it.
Now, I know the yearbook answer is to give all the empathetic reasons and whatnot, but I like to do things along cost/benefit lines. Because, human beings are for the most part, cost/benefit calculators. And when you get right down to it, one of the main arguments to use to tamp down on street harassment, to guys, is that it doesn’t work. You are NOT likely to win guys over with violins and sob stories; you are much more likely to win them over with stuff that does or does not work.
Make of that what you will…
“OF: it’s not hard for me to grok, but let’s face it, you are not exactly honest.”
O: Really? How so?
O.
See, I was going to try to read some of that wall and respond to it, but I stopped dead on this one.
So the end justifies the means? If one person ends up not being disgusted and offended and upset by it, and what? talks to you or agrees to go have a coffee, that justifies being disgusting and offensive to all the rest and upsetting them?
You clearly didn’t bother to read the thread on the discussion about that definition of creepy, because you would have noticed that we got to a place where we were pretty nuanced and empathetic about the lesser ‘unwittingly’ creepy (deserving of empathy and some gentle reeducation) versus the more problematic ‘couldn’t give a damn if it does make people uncomfortable or actually gets off on it’ variety (deserving of a big fuck off).
“Harassing people is wrong because it doesn’t get them into bed with you” is part of that second variety of creepy because it demonstrates that you don’t give a fuck about anyone but yourself, and about others as means to pleasing yourself.
Harassing people is wrong because it is wrong. If you don’t get that, why should anyone here care about anything else you spew out?
Look down, look down
Don’t squeeze too hard with Dawn
Look down, look down
It’s this or mow the lawn
“O: What part of what I said didn’t you understand? Are you telling me that there are no Women in the realworld who act in such ways? Really?”
Act what way?
“O: Online dating is at best a timesuck and at worst a money pit for the vast majority of Men. This has been proven in studies done on the matter. Again: see Jon Millward’s researches on OKCupid.”
You literally cannot find one dating site for yourself? You have to use OKCupid?
“O: Something fast becoming a thing of the past; see Putnam, “Bowling Alone”…”
I meant like a hobby type of club, moron.
“O: “Social circle Game” only works if you have a social circle that has available Women in them to begin with. This isn’t the case for many Men.”
Most men don’t have any friends who are women? It’s 2013, not 1950.
“O: All living things on this planet has a mating strategy. It may not be Game or catcalling, but you can best believe both of you had to display your respective wares in order for the two of you to be attracted to each other.
At any rate, and including the “Etc.”, you mentioned *five* possible options – out of a “billion”.”
Um, what? Me and my boyfriend started dating because we got to know each other, we liked each other, and we agreed to date.
It’s not my job to get you a girlfriend. Look at all the couples in the world and throughout history. You will find that there is a variety of ways that they met. I didn’t think I’d have to explain this to you.
No, they’re not, and no, that’s stupid.
Obsidian, when you were harassed, is the reason it bothered you because you felt bad that those women didn’t get to have sex with you? And you felt bad that they suffered from lack of sex?
You have some really shitty self esteem then.
At this point I’m fairly certain it’s more than clear that he’s going to be all DOESN’T WORK GOTTA USE GAME no matter what solutions we propose.
@Dvar:
“And THAT’S why there are like a billion movies featuring “not conventionally attractive dude gets the conventionally attractive girl of his dreams when she learns to appreciate his unique qualities” and… let’s see… ONE gender-flipped version, namely Hairspray (at least the original, haven’t seen the remake).”
O: I actually enjoyed the Hairspray film, actually. Anyway, part of the reason why you see what you see is because of what Women down through time have preferred in males, of which “good looks” isn’t as high on the list as other qualities: status, resources, ambition, intelligence, physical prowess, and so on.
It’s why the current James Bond, Daniel Craig, is also the most profitable one…
Oh, and while I got you here, Dvar: I checked out the Capt. Awkward site; it’s what I thought, largely a blog that caters to Women.
Hmm…
O.
@gillyrosebee: I’ve got plenty of photos of the wee ones, I’ll upload a few more later on.
This is quite possibly the most misandric thing I’ve ever read.
Men are, for the most part, decent human beings who feel empathy and want to make the world a better place. “Not frightening or hurting someone” is, for most men I know, a much more convincing argument than “not getting sex.”