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The Last of Us: Has evil feminism ruined the zombie apocalypse?

lastof

A girl … in my video game?

So it’s true: Feminists have started ruining video games with all their feminism. At least according to some dude called pullupjumper on MGTOWforums who recently wrote a post warning his fellow red pill dudebros about a little game called The Last of Us, which is not only filled with zombies but, get this, girls.

For anyone who plays video games as one of their hobbies, The Last of Us is a pretty fun game…. but…. The feminist messages were close to ruining a game I waited a year for… The game’s setting is in a zombie apocalyptic world and the basic story (no spoilers) is that this guy has to take a 14 year old girl across the country during the zombie apocalypse. Almost as soon as the story started, I knew pretty much every female character in the game (except for the main protagonists daughter) would be portrayed as a”bad ass” character. The message was clear, women are as strong as men… Even when they are only 14.

Also, there were some adult ladies in positions of authority!

During the game , the two main characters meet different survivor groups. Every group leader was a woman. The only group leader who was a man, was a bad guy. The main protagonist even said yes ma’am, no ma’am to these women.

CAN YOU IMAGINE.

Now before you all go, but isn’t this sort of complaining a little hypocritical, given that all these video game dudes got mad when that chick Anita Sarkeesian who isn’t even a real gamer because of boobies made those videos she totally stole all that money for because IT’S ONLY A GAME, LADY JEEZ DON’T RUIN EVERYTHING WITH YOUR STUPID GENDER ANALYSIS.

Well, no, it’s not totally hypocritical because, get this, the girls in The Last of Us are portrayed as being unnaturally strong and capable.

What was pretty funny though is that the 14 year old girl is able to fire a rifle THAT IS BIGGER THAN HER and fire it accurately.

This is a clear affront to the extreme naturalism and realism of a game about a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE.

And clearly never before in video game history has any male character been portrayed as unnaturally strong or capable.

Yeah, this dude and his gun are totally realistic in every way.

Yeah, this dude and his gun are totally plausible.

Oh but it gets worse:

On the other hand, (not funny) another boy who was about the 14 year old girls age, was portrayed as weak, could not fight, could not shoot a gun and was just made to seem very weak. The Fems cant even leave their “girl power” out of the games.

A male character who is helpless and in need of rescue?

OH NO!

SAVE ME PRINCESS PEACH!

Happily, pullupjumper has an idea for a way to confront this creeping feminism:

Maybe, if any of you are interested, a couple of us can get together and start making our own games after these games become unbearable. What do you guys think?

Grimlock is right there with him:

I’m currently going to school for media arts and animation and am considering starting a small indy animation/film studio with a couple of guys from class. I also happen to be getting pretty good at 3d modeling … and even though i want to start with animation and film video games are my end game.

I don’t think I’d ever put an obvious message into a game, since I find pushing your belief onto others through mediums like videogames more than a little cunty, but will my games be misogynist? You better fucking believe it. Misogyny The likes of which will make duke nukem blush. I won’t need to tell you guys when I break into the industry, you’ll know it from the sheer uproar it’ll cause.

Misogyny … in video games? Now there’s a novel idea!

Oh, by the way, for new and/or extremely literal readers, I would like to point out that this post contains

sarcasm

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Posted on July 4, 2013, in all about the menz, antifeminism, are these guys 12 years old?, drama kings, entitled babies, evil women, I'm totally being sarcastic, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, misogyny, no girls allowed, playing the victim and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 560 Comments.

  1. Hi cloudiah :D

    also did that conflagrant bird seriously just say that we don’t have anything specific about AVFM being racist sexist garbage nightmare concocted by ghastly toilet people?

    Are you lazy, or just impervious to observation?

  2. Oh yeah it’s just the picture of paranoia in here.

    Look at us, huddling in piles, staring with fearful eyes at some chucklefuck telling us his bizarre conspiracy theory about a video game.

  3. Look at us, huddling in piles, staring with fearful eyes

    More like laughing sporadically in between trying to sort out a bunch of old maps of the San Joaquin valley.

  4. I’m not the one who creates conspiracies in order to blame people. You’re confusing your side here.

    I was speaking about people thinking I am this or that other person.

    About the game, there’s no conspiracy. It was just a pathetic attempt of the creators of being politically correct. It was as cheesy as putting a boy from every continent with native clothing hugging a tree in the end of a movie about war. Just blatant and pathetic. Well, to be more precise, the white boy would have to be the cause for the end of the world after it was almost saved by the sacrifices of all the other martyr boys. Lol.

    C’mon, Rising Phoenix (myself, the Patriarch) is right, I can’t spend several days in here dismissing absurd ad hominem and straw men arguments.

  5. Apparently you can indeed spend several days in here, judging by the evidence so far.

  6. Nobody’s asking you to dismiss things that we aren’t doing. We aren’t soliciting your strange, incomplete opinions; you are pulling them out of your pants and waving them around all by your lonesome.

    We make fun of misogyny here, and your strawman parade and unironic use of the phrase ‘politically correct’ (are you from the 90s?) qualify.

    If you aren’t adequately entertained by our prodding you to see what noises you make, you can peace out any old time.

  7. “It was as cheesy as putting a boy from every continent with native clothing hugging a tree in the end of a movie about war.”

    ?? Is this something that war movies do? Did I miss that one?

    Actually now I want to see this movie . . .

  8. It’s A Small Arborist?

  9. It represents the appropriation of indigenous culture to slake western imperial guilt, a meaningless gesture meant to distract from the fact that large-scale war always victimizes those populations.

  10. This is clearly an exploration of the true power of grammar.

    For instance, I can think of three or more alternate interpretations of, “a boy from every continent with native clothing.”

  11. Yeah, you guys sure know how to have fun.

    I know discussion is a prohibited activity when we are talking about feminism.

    You guys are so right that of course you don’t need to discuss, you just have fun with the other dumb enough people not to be part of the movement.

    Like the peasants mocking scientists who would disagree with the Church back in the day. I guess every age has its share of populations brainwashed by politicians.

    Continue to have fun mocking my terrible, terrible misoginy present on my objective description of the characters in the game.

    I would just be wondering to see if you guys would be dishonest enough not to think that it would be a cause for a feminist uproar in case the gender of all the characters in the game was the opposite. Seriously, that is just plain and simple dishonesty. Stop living in denial, folks.

    Today is the day I tried to reason with feminists. Tomorrow, I’ll try to dry water. My life doesn’t suck so bad afterall, eh? Quite challenging.

  12. My life not suck. My life cool, ok?

    Really?

    So cool that you out awesome the combined lives of the regulars?

    Are you the spokesperson for a not too bland Beer From Mexico?

    Because if you aren’t, good luck with that line of argument.

    (honestly, I’ll bet my life is now, and has long been, a lot more awesome than yours).

    It’s interesting to see what passes as “argumentation” in a smug echo chamber community of feminists. Ad hom.

    See what I mean… yuo confuse insult, with ad hominem. Makes me wonder what else you have no clue about.

  13. I know discussion is a prohibited activity when we are talking about feminism.

    Ignoring that we discussed this for about 6 pages before you even showed up, and ignoring the content of that discussion.

    I would just be wondering to see if you guys would be dishonest enough not to think that it would be a cause for a feminist uproar in case the gender of all the characters in the game was the opposite.

    You mean like practically every game that exists? (I mean, what’s unusual about this game is that it almost gets it.)

    You mean like the tropes that Anita Sarkeesian is examining now (and receiving rape and death threats for examining while female)?

    You are so dense, the universe bends around you.

  14. Rui. Sweetie. If you want a discussion, you have to make points.

    Would it cause a feminist uproar if the genders were reversed? No. It would not cause a feminist uproar if the genders were reversed. Can you explain why it would?

    You seem to have some ideas about feminism that don’t really match up with the opinions of … feminists. Where did you get those ideas?

    You also seem to feel as though you’re making points and we are ignoring them. Can you tell us what those points are?

    If you actually want us to engage with you, you have to actually make cogent statements that aren’t just masturbatory assumptions or strawmen. You can do that and we will discuss stuff with you, or you can keep doing what you’re doing and we will keep mocking you.

  15. know discussion is a prohibited activity when we are talking about feminism.

    So discuss. You could, of course continue to just assert that we won’t interact, but that’s not our fault. You made an argument (re “The Last of Us”) it was shot down.

    Then you went off about how mean we are for not taking your disingenuous nature for genius, made baseless accusations about how we argue and are pretending this is us avoiding some critique of feminism.

    So go ahead, present a real critique of something (other than the decidedly deflated set of plaintive bleats you rehashed about the game), or go back to telling us (with no substantiation) how cool you are. Cause that’s really putting feminism in its place all right.

  16. “Today is the day I tried to reason with feminists.”

    Dude, if you fail at reasoning, don’t blame us . . .

  17. “(honestly, I’ll bet my life is now, and has long been, a lot more awesome than yours).”

    Dude *I* have a more interesting life than his and I can’t handle employment! (Idk about awesome, considering the results of the tank swap, but certainly interesting [oh and the back pressure from my attempts to stop the clicking from being every 5 seconds has resulted in a drip, I have a bucket between my tank and sump])

  18. grumpycatisagirl

    Good luck with the drying water, though. Combating global warming would be a worthwhile use of your time.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_water

  19. A progression:

    That’s what I can remember from the top of my head. Did it ruin the game? Is it evil? That type of paranoia is more akin to feminists. The game continued to be awesome. However, was it pathetically blatant. /blockquote>

    It adds nothing to the story apart from sending a feminist message. /blockquote>

    . It didn’t make me angry, I’m not a bigot/blockquote>

    About the game, there’s no conspiracy. It was just a pathetic attempt of the creators of being politically correct

    I would just be wondering to see if you guys would be dishonest enough not to think that it would be a cause for a feminist uproar in case the gender of all the characters in the game was the opposite. Seriously, that is just plain and simple dishonesty.

    I have a question.
    If the narrative of the story does not make you angry, AND this narrative is just pathetic political correctness, WHY would feminists be in an uproar if “gender of all the characters in the game was the opposite?”
    … Because then it would be manly men in control of everything, you playing a badass female smuggler helping a young boy across the country?
    Weird.
    It’s almost as if a fictional world that’s clearly just a pathetic fantasy somehow still causes people viewing it to experience emotions
    And, more so, it’s almost as if you… Wait-a-second, if this is a clear case of political correctness gone mad, then most other games would not be like that, right? That’s logic? This is “Going Too Far, it’s pathetical”, so most other games don’t go that far, and most other games have men in charge of everything and being awesome and this is all right, this is okay, that’s perfectly normal.
    … So the moment something has the slightest bit of “women occasionally in charge”, it’s pathetic and wrong? Even if the game is still admittedly both entertaining and good?.
    So you don’t object to the nature of the story (Again, why the fuck did no one in this future have a medical degree? BLOOD SAMPLES, PEOPLE), you don’t object to the presentation, the gameplay, the overall narrative of apocalyptic survival, humanity and the dawning of a new age…
    … your problem is the pathetic women in charge. Am I right in understanding it like that?
    What, you don’t think that’s a fucking problem? Even more so if merely reversing the genders would showcase a serious problematic with the balances? And you even state that other feminists POINT THAT OUT?
    So ultimately, you don’t like women in charge of things.
    And penultimately, that requires you to think women should not be in charge of things.
    Scamper of, Mr. Awesome. Your conviction is trite.

  20. GODDAMMIT.

    Oh bother.

    A progression:

    That’s what I can remember from the top of my head. Did it ruin the game? Is it evil? That type of paranoia is more akin to feminists. The game continued to be awesome. However, was it pathetically blatant

    It adds nothing to the story apart from sending a feminist message.

    . It didn’t make me angry, I’m not a bigot

    About the game, there’s no conspiracy. It was just a pathetic attempt of the creators of being politically correct

    I would just be wondering to see if you guys would be dishonest enough not to think that it would be a cause for a feminist uproar in case the gender of all the characters in the game was the opposite. Seriously, that is just plain and simple dishonesty.

    I have a question.
    If the narrative of the story does not make you angry, AND this narrative is just pathetic political correctness, WHY would feminists be in an uproar if “gender of all the characters in the game was the opposite?”
    … Because then it would be manly men in control of everything, you playing a badass female smuggler helping a young boy across the country?
    Weird.
    It’s almost as if a fictional world that’s clearly just a pathetic fantasy somehow still causes people viewing it to experience emotions
    And, more so, it’s almost as if you… Wait-a-second, if this is a clear case of political correctness gone mad, then most other games would not be like that, right? That’s logic? This is “Going Too Far, it’s pathetical”, so most other games don’t go that far, and most other games have men in charge of everything and being awesome and this is all right, this is okay, that’s perfectly normal.
    … So the moment something has the slightest bit of “women occasionally in charge”, it’s pathetic and wrong? Even if the game is still admittedly both entertaining and good?.
    So you don’t object to the nature of the story (Again, why the fuck did no one in this future have a medical degree? BLOOD SAMPLES, PEOPLE), you don’t object to the presentation, the gameplay, the overall narrative of apocalyptic survival, humanity and the dawning of a new age…
    … your problem is the pathetic women in charge. Am I right in understanding it like that?
    What, you don’t think that’s a fucking problem? Even more so if merely reversing the genders would showcase a serious problematic with the balances? And you even state that other feminists POINT THAT OUT?
    So ultimately, you don’t like women in charge of things.
    And penultimately, that requires you to think women should not be in charge of things.
    Scamper of, Mr. Awesome. Your conviction is trite.

  21. Is the outrage even real? These little misters crying, “Waaah! The hero is a girl! Waaah! How do you think that makes me feel?!” This would be a fair complaint if they’ve never seen a film with a white male protagonist in it — but that would also mean they live under a rock or pay rent in Reverse World.
    If you want to be all “Waaah! Women want equal representation in pop culture??! No! Noooo! It’s not fair!” then owe what that means — you need to see men in charge — even in games to feel secure and good about yourself. Women heroes piss you off? No, that’s not something you get to feel indignant about.

  22. RE: katz

    And remember, kids, Muslims are physically incapable of thinking critically about their religion.

    I want to introduce him to Eboo Patel, but his mind might explode.

    RE: Rui Arruda

    You never played a Roberta Williams game, did you? *shakes head sadly* Seriously, you act as though the Last of Us was so out there, when you had King’s Quest VII going EVEN FURTHER a decade ago. (Two female protagonists, with agency, and a female villain. Also the princess rescues her love interest twice over.)

  23. To the MRA mind, any form of criticism, no matter how mild or warranted, is always construed as some sort of male shaming tactic. They use this catalog as armor, and see logical fallacies in every argument. Every argument but (surprisingly) their own.

    http://manboobz.com/2011/11/13/showdown-mencallmethings-versus-the-catalogue-of-anti-male-shaming-tactics/

    And I hate to link to A Voice for Abusers, but in case you needed to see how this so called catalog can be interpreted to encompass anything and everything:

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/the-catalog-of-anti-male-shaming-tactics/

  24. Also, I’m curious how Rui felt about Portal II. You know, since GlaDos is the villain, Chell is the hero (with agency, even!) and Wheatley was specfically designed to be incompetent.

    But that was just feminist pap, am I right, guys? Nobody played THAT game!

  25. Rui thinks he tried to reason? That’s so cute.

  26. This thread rose from the dead! Like a zombie!

    Umm, this Rui is totally reminding me of a troll that was around when I first started lurking. The dude that was into a Song of Ice and Fire and seemed to be convinced that women in heels were a conspiracy to make his boner sad?

    I don’t remember a name, sorry =(

  27. Sad boner cuz heels was an NWO thing, I don’t recall him being into the Song of Fire and Ice though…the naïf maybe? (Diogenes)

  28. The troll into ASOIAF and upset by high heels was Mr. Al.

  29. Yes, that’s the one!
    Thank you, cloudiah. =)

  30. I feel kinda creepy remembering the trolls. Maybe I spent too much time lurking, lol.

  31. Oh wait, did I say King’s Quest VII was almost a decade ago? Sorry, I meant TWO. Yeah, computer games were breaking this ground TWO FUCKING DECADES AGO.

    Now, can whiny gamers as a whole just MOVE ON already? They’re twenty years out of date!

  32. In the game, all leaders are women, all of the women are admirable. All men are despicable

    I’m sorry, in one game did men not get portrayed as more competent and women got more representation? Let me get out my tiny violin.

    There’s no arguing that the game showcases all women in it as superior to all men in the game.

    But… fibinachi literally just argued it. So…

    Now, if the genders in the game were opposite… I know of a movement that would have fuel for another decade of angry militancy lol.it would have very much resembled a lot of our popular media and video games and the MRAs would have not noticed d

    ftfy

    @Rui

    OKay, so even if your right, and the last of us is explicitly feminist, what is your point?

    It was just a pathetic attempt of the creators of being politically correct.

    Because whenever women are portrayed as powerful and/or positive in video games, its b/c of PCness. Not because women compose half the population and therefore should compose about half the powerful and half the positive characters in videogames. :|

    @Cloudiah

    p.s. Is anyone else getting a Steele/Mr. Al vibe? If it’s just me, than nevermind…

    idk, thats my gut instinct, but I haven’t seen much of MR al.

    Also, Im totally going to have to use that “your so dense, the universe bends around you” thing later XD

  33. I can’t claim credit for that “so dense” line, though right now I can’t remember who came up with it. But it’s a good one, and definitely applied to our two (?) trolls.

  34. I don’t pertain to a movement based on ideas such as a millenial subjugation of one gender by the other one.

    Assuming you meant “subscribe” or something else more relevant than “pertain”: are you saying you don’t believe that women have ever been oppressed by men?

    Lol it feels funny to be subject to the famous feminist paranoia

    In what way have you been subject to paranoia? Has anyone claimed to feel threatened by you?

    Seeing your posts is a lot like being talked at by my mother: We don’t actually need to participate, since you appear to be filling in our responses in your head and then responding to them. It’s pretty embarrassing to watch, actually.

    Without anything more specific, it means absolutely nothing. It’s politico-speak, of a kind with the propaganda of the the conservative right.

    Dude, that was kind of a stretch. Admit it.

    I actually see no reason to assume that these idiots are in fact the same idiot. Am I missing something?

  35. Just to point out another bit of you guys’ paranoia: I’m not related to any organization. I think I’ve heard of the MRA but if someone asked me before what it is without a context I wouldn’t know what it is.

    Stop projecting your own faults on me. I don’t dedicate myself in the name of a movement or organization. I have my own sense of critic and that is what I follow.

    A critical, independent person cannot be a feminist. For a person to be a feminist nowadays they must either be unaware of a lot of scientifical data, or dedicated to the movement rather than to the truth and thus… Well, do what you guys did here. Anything to defend it, including not even taking into account opposite arguments, but instead mocking words surrounding it.

    For someone to have the level of engagement to that movement so that they are habitual commenters on a feminist blog, it is obvious they have to be in such a state of denial that no reasonable argument could be held. In your world of denial, a person who took his time to describe all the characters of a game to show a point is a troll, not the ones who answered with childish avoidant jokes or even curse words. You guys are deeply dellusional.

    Consider this: if feminists had secretly paid the game studio to make a game a feminist game and thus support their political position, would you guys ever admit it? No, you wouldn’t, because you live to defend the group, and not the truth. I already said the developers were just attempting to be politically correct and I’m not making up a conspiracy. But the point is you would do EVERYTHING to deny it. It could be as evident as possible, but you guys would deny it for the sake of defending your group.

    You guys are nothing more than sports fans arguing in favor of your team. The general public is starting to notice it, and the mockery is changing sides… Not a good time to be a Feminist fan.

  36. I love how Rui thinks he’s entitled to reasoned responses and logic-based debate. He just assumes the reason he didn’t get it is because we can’t provide it, not because we just didn’t fucking feel like it.

  37. Be fair, emilygoddess. He says that he doesn’t pertain to the movement that he doesn’t dedicate himself in the name of. It’s scientifical.

  38. A critical, independent person cannot be a feminist. For a person to be a feminist nowadays they must either be unaware of a lot of scientifical data,

    Plz provide this scientific data, from a reliable source.

    In your world of denial, a person who took his time to describe all the characters of a game to show a point is a troll,

    Dude, you just randomly described shit. You didn’t say how it was feminist. You just made a list without connecting anything. Like, havent you had any experience writing things? Persuasive shit or whatever. You start with info. Then you argue a point. You started with the character descriptions, but you expected us to agree with you that a) they were feminist, and b) if a) is true it is horrible.

    I already said the developers were just attempting to be politically correct

    Since you are such a logical man who only deals in facts, perhaps you could explain how its just for the PCness to show mostly women being in charge/ competent, but not just for the PCness for mostly men to be shown being in charge/competent.

  39. I am now going to go write a feminist anthem entitled “Unaware of Scientifical Data.”

  40. grumpycatisagirl

    Also, if a game company listens to feminists who want a feminist game and puts out a feminist game that’s awesome. Why would I deny it?

  41. I love how Rui thinks he’s entitled to reasoned responses and logic-based debate. He just assumes the reason he didn’t get it is because we can’t provide it, not because we just didn’t fucking feel like it.

    The thing is, there was plenty of logic-based debate. both before and after he posted, but Rui engaged with none of it.

    I am now going to go write a feminist anthem entitled “Unaware of Scientifical Data.”

    I’d listen to that.

  42. Mine is going to be called the Feminist fans. Following the tradition established by our friend Rui, the public will have no idea whether we’re referring to fans in an “I love your band!” sense or fans in the “it’s too hot in her, can you turn on the fan?” sense. Or why the word Feminist is capitalized and fan isn’t.

  43. “or even curse words”

    The fuck guys, did you fucking say dangit or something? Haven’t you awesome fuckers been told before that no one will take you fucking seriously if you use shitty language?

  44. Fan? In what way sir do you resemble a devise for keeping oneself cool?

    (Ok, the ninth doctor is probably the season I know the least, and that paraphrased, but I fucking had to)

  45. A critical, independent person cannot be a feminist. For a person to be a feminist nowadays they must either be unaware of a lot of scientifical data, or dedicated to the movement rather than to the truth and thus… Well, do what you guys did here. Anything to defend it, including not even taking into account opposite arguments, but instead mocking words surrounding it.

    Or it could be that the feminists you argue with resort to mocking because they’ve already addressed your arguments and like to poke fun at the stupid shit you say. Also, that “scientifical” data just so happens to support a feminist worldview, so it’s no surprise that feminists exist.

    For someone to have the level of engagement to that movement so that they are habitual commenters on a feminist blog, it is obvious they have to be in such a state of denial that no reasonable argument could be held. In your world of denial, a person who took his time to describe all the characters of a game to show a point is a troll, not the ones who answered with childish avoidant jokes or even curse words. You guys are deeply dellusional.

    Yeah, it’s not like your argument is silly on its face or that it’s also poorly thought-out. Nope, we’re just delusional.

    Consider this: if feminists had secretly paid the game studio to make a game a feminist game and thus support their political position, would you guys ever admit it? No, you wouldn’t, because you live to defend the group, and not the truth. I already said the developers were just attempting to be politically correct and I’m not making up a conspiracy. But the point is you would do EVERYTHING to deny it. It could be as evident as possible, but you guys would deny it for the sake of defending your group.

    Yeah, about that…

    Also, you don’t seem to understand what political correctness is.

    You guys are nothing more than sports fans arguing in favor of your team. The general public is starting to notice it, and the mockery is changing sides… Not a good time to be a Feminist fan.

    Too bad that it’s becoming increasingly harder for me to find anti-feminist fans. Probably because more people are realizing how full of shit they are.

  46. For a person to be a feminist nowadays they must either be unaware of a lot of scientifical data

    Are you saying we are insufficiently scientifical? I’ll have you know that I’m very good at integral and differential calculus; I know the scientific names of beings animalculous: In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral, I am the very model of a modern Major-General.

  47. Thanks Katz, guess what I now have running through my head.

  48. Anything to defend it, including not even taking into account opposite arguments, but instead mocking words surrounding it.

    So you either didn’t read the header of the site or didn’t understand it. Which is it?

  49. For a person to be a feminist nowadays they must either be unaware of a lot of scientifical data

    Yes, that totally scientifical data that the MRM keeps flogging. All those peer-reviewed articles, the studies, the statistics…

    Oh, wait, no, in fact they rely on a few cherry-picked numbers that fall apart if you begin comparing it to the large-scale surveys and any kind of rigorous study. In fact, when you start digging into the science…

    Fun story time! Once upon a time, Howard was an anti-feminist! Then Howard began digging into the science, as one does, going through studies and such.

    Now Howard is not an anti-feminist. I wonder what could be in those studies!

    But the MRM will never find out what’s in those studies, because they’ve taken the Red Pill, man.

    And apparently it interferes with your ability to read for comprehension.

  50. Argenti Aertheri

    My favorite part? “For someone to have the level of engagement to that movement so that they are habitual commenters on a feminist blog, it is obvious they have to be in such a state of denial that no reasonable argument could be held.”

    Yeah I totally hang out here cuz it’s a feminist blog…which means my gender and sexytimes are not mocked. My being nuts is not even a thing, unless someone goes off about how someone’s bigoted or violent and thus mentally ill and y’all go “you did not just say that, right?”

    If Rui thinks that not questioning my non-binary gender means no reasonable argument can be had, he’s right — his views are the sort of bigotry one cannot penetrate.

    Oh, and a fallacy — “The fact that one is confronted with an individual who strongly argues that slavery is wrong and another who argues equally strongly that slavery is perfectly legitimate in no way suggests that the truth must be somewhere in the middle.”

  51. A critical, independent person cannot be a feminist.

    So P.Z. Myers isn’t independent. He isn’t critical. Got it. Same for Chris Clarke. Same for Lindsay Beyerstein. Same for everyone. We are all sheeple.

    Got any facts to back that up?

    No, of course not. That would show a lack of independence.

    Consider this: if feminists had secretly paid the game studio to make a game a feminist game and thus support their political position, would you guys ever admit it?

    If a game company did that (took money from feminists to develop a feminist game; and then did so) and it was any good… Damn straight I’d admit it. I’d be shouting that shit from the rooftops.

    Moron.

    You guys are nothing more than sports fans arguing in favor of your team. The general public is starting to notice it, and the mockery is changing sides… Not a good time to be a Feminist fan.

    unh… dude do you read twitter? Looked at the blogoshpere (outside the manospherian segments)? Because it’s a time of pushback, but Wendy Davis isn’t unknown. The dumbfucks in Virginia who are funding anti-woman clinics are being exposed; and it’s not being dismissed out of hand.

    Heard of Lily Ledbetter? Is Rush Limbaugh hurting from his attacks on Sandra Fluke?

    It’s not an easy time, but it is a good time to be a feminist.

  52. “A critical, independent person cannot be a feminist. For a person to be a feminist nowadays they must either be unaware of a lot of scientifical data,”

    I’m just curious, what specific scientific data are you refering to?

    “For someone to have the level of engagement to that movement so that they are habitual commenters on a feminist blog, it is obvious they have to be in such a state of denial that no reasonable argument could be held.”

    What are we in denial of? Or is this the part where you swear the world is run by women already and we’re just denying it? If that’s what you’re thinking, you have to go back to the drawing board. Do you watch the news…ever? Were you paying attention in history class?

    “In your world of denial, a person who took his time to describe all the characters of a game to show a point is a troll, not the ones who answered with childish avoidant jokes or even curse words. You guys are deeply dellusional.”

    Fella, you complained about strong women characters. There’s no delusion here, except you don’t seem to understand that you’re sexist. You expected to describe a video game with just as many non-passive women characters as men and have us respond with something like, “Well, you got us there. Yeah, we’re wrong.” Why in god’s name were surprised at our reactions?

    Consider this: if feminists had secretly paid the game studio to make a game a feminist game and thus support their political position, would you guys ever admit it? No, you wouldn’t, because you live to defend the group, and not the truth. I already said the developers were just attempting to be politically correct and I’m not making up a conspiracy. But the point is you would do EVERYTHING to deny it. It could be as evident as possible, but you guys would deny it for the sake of defending your group.

  53. Consider this: if feminists had secretly paid the game studio to make a game a feminist game and thus support their political position, would you guys ever admit it? No, you wouldn’t, because you live to defend the group, and not the truth. I already said the developers were just attempting to be politically correct and I’m not making up a conspiracy. But the point is you would do EVERYTHING to deny it. It could be as evident as possible, but you guys would deny it for the sake of defending your group.

    That one’s actually kind of weird.

    Like, really weird. Because the only major feminist message I could think of really paying to incorporate into a game would be things like:

    “Some enemy commanders are female in this RTS”

    “You occasionally shoot at female soldiers in this FPS”

    “In this RPG; relationships between men and women are possible, but there are also men and men, women and women, and the sentient Graniton, who, if you offer it enough silicate, will mark you as its “mineral-mate” but otherwise do nothing, since as a being of sentient rock it has no conception of mammalian sex”

    “In this fighting game, everyone wears sensible, protective clothing”

    “In this puzzle game, you actually control a woman, which has no bearing on the plot in general and changes nothing about the game
    (Portal, anyone?)

    “In this game, your character is actually interested in other men. It has no bearing on the plot and changes nothing, and is only revealed in a throw-away sentence you have to pay a lot of attention to figure out”
    (Half Life 2 Mod, whoose name I forgot and am trying to cite up again. You were a person undergoing psychiatric evaluation, because following an accident you had become unable to separate fantasy from reality, and the mod consisted of environmental puzzles and worlds changing as your psychotic episode progressed, with the occasional narrative comments from your attending psychiatrist. People got upset about the, and I quote, “Sneak gay” )

    “In this game, you control a woman. She does things. So does her companions, some of which are also women. This is all entirely unrelated to the extra dimensional invasion going on. Why did you want us to emphasize the fact your protagonist was a woman, again?”

    Maybe this is because I’m a bad feminist (I freely admit that, and I’ve never really gotten around to reading more than casually into 101 stuff.). But I wouldn’t have a problem saying “Oh, yeah, and some feminist theory made it into this game”, because I’ve never relaly experienced feminist theory being as casually cruel as most MRA counter-points.

    But let’s say you’re a studio, and you’re developing a game, and for some reason, you want to include women.

    Here’s an instructive example of that, if you remember Remember Me (ZING! YES I’M SO WITTY, AREN’T I?).

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/remember-mes-surprising-connection-to-facebook-and-why-its-protagonist-had

    Remember Me is not a brilliant game. It is, however, fun and even pretty at times, and it can be quite charming.

    Aaaand… what’s my point here? Well, they set out to make a game with a female protagonist, and that’s it. It felt right for the story. And then there was a game where you played a woman, and, having played the game, I can tell you that at no point does she stop and stare at the screen and then launch into a rendition of the Vagina Monologues. Because that’d be fucking stupid.

    And despite the generally irrelevant point of the protagonists gender (There was no, say, cock-sucking minigame or pregnancy gameplay or a thrill-a-minute-ten-hour braiding bonanza), people still complained about it and according to that article and others, some publishers were arguing that was a bad move, market-wise, because it wouldn’t sell as well.

    This entire discussion is fucking meaningless, because ultimately, EVEN IF, the Last of Us was a feminist manifesto of the highest order, that’d only fucking amount to “Even in the apocalypse, some women do things”, and you still have situations like, of the top of my head:

    Power progession in MMO’s being “Men get covered up in awesome plate armor, women get…

    or your argument that “The Last of Us” is a “pathetically blatant example of feminist ideology” boiling down to “Some women do stuff and lead troops, and there’s Tess, who is represented as being heroic and she’s a woman and the final boss might be female, and she’s not represented as reprehensibly evil, just cold and calculating. And also, one 13 year old boy was a wimp and one guy was a cannibal and we meet a gang leader who is evil, and he’s a man, so men must be evil in this game!”

    Have you considered, in your fortress of logic and will, that the reason you find yourself stymied by broad generalizations of women in power and you find those representations “Pathetic”, is because they flip the easy, casual switch you otherwise have in your head of “Men = Strong”, “Women = Weak”, and make your momentarily re-evaluate those easy assignments of properties and abilities?

    At no point in the Last of Us does anyone say something like :” All women are evil, and this fungal apocalypse is clearly the fault of the penis”, yet, all it takes for some people to proclaim it a pathetic political correct fantasy is that some women have some power.

    Imagine that.

  54. I’m just confused as to why feminists who made a feminist game would then try to conceal that fact.

  55. I’ve been sort of half-assedly making a troll bingo game. Take a list of standard troll behaviors (argument from cavemen times, “why are you being mean to me”, misunderstands ad hominem, etc.), put them randomly into spaces on a 5×5 grid, check the box when troll performs said behavior, whoever gets 5 in a row first wins.

    A critical, independent person cannot be a feminist. For a person to be a feminist nowadays they must either be unaware of a lot of scientifical data, or dedicated to the movement rather than to the truth…

    I’m not sure if “meaningless, vague generalities” or “[citation needed]” should be the free square in the middle.

    Oh! Added “hilarious typo” to the list. Thanks, Rui!

  56. whoever gets 5 in a row first wins

    Wait, this is a feminist game. Rule revision: everyone wins and gets hugs (if wanted).

  57. I like that version of bingo! :D

    Got any facts to back that up?

    No, of course not. That would show a lack of independence.

    Another “MRM in a nutshell” moment. Assfax are the only admissible data.

  58. David made a Bingo card generator a while back, but since I’m not on my own computer I don’t have the link. Maybe try typing “bingo” into the sidebar?

  59. Here’s the links to David’s Men’s Rights Bingo if you don’t want to go searching for them (refresh the page for a different card):
    Single Bingo Card

    Double Bingo Card

  60. I went camping for a few days right after posting that, so I was unaware of being ninja’d by the Dark Lord.
    That’s probably better than my version, anyway. Thanks for the link!

  61. In the Last of Us universe, with the population crisis that unfolded, women would have to give birth to a lot of children to compensate, and would have to be protected if humanity wanted to have any chance of surviving. This technical fact is in conflict with all the bad-ass female characters in the game – they would fit a more civilized setting.

  62. “This technical fact is in conflict with all the bad-ass female characters in the game”

    Ugh, so just because one zombie universe women are protected, it means that women cannot fight? Women fighting is usually to protect themselves, not for fun. Even if they’re protected they’re still going to have to be “bad ass”.
    Also women having tons of babies is pretty stupid, since populations are still going to grow as long as they’re a bit above replacement level. Having too many babies will actually hinder growth, since it cuts down on supply before there’s enough adults to work to compensate.

  63. I’m just perplexed that he thinks the “population crisis” would be a bigger problem than the zombie plague or the rival survivor groups or the collapse of society (no running water, electricity, cops etc.).

  64. Your “fact” stinks of the ass it came from.

  65. Women being badass and fighting would double the number of people protecting those precious women, you dolt.

  66. It’s a video game. About the zombie apocalypse. Not real life. The “population crisis” isn’t really a crisis, it’s a plot point. In a video game. About the zombie apocalypse.

  67. I don’t even…

    There’s a reason you don’t get between a bear and her cubs — pissed off mothers will fight to protect their young.

    Now, stereotypes aside, it seriously is better if all adults are fighting to protect the young. Having anyone who is physically able to fight not trained to is just bloodly stupid.

    Tangentially, my father whines about Criminal Minds being unrealistic, but is apparently watching The Walking Dead. Because zombies are so much more realistic than forensic psych.

  68. It turns out that whatever reasoning is being used, however sound it is within the game world, is inherently a cop-out. Because if the paradigm is “we should have equality in the media, unless you can think of a reason why your work shouldn’t,” then media creators are just going to translate that as “make sure to include a reason for why your work is all about white guys,” and all we get is inequality with a side order of hand-waving.

    Eg, coming up with an in-story reason why your Native American character is played by a white guy with a dead bird on his head doesn’t make it less erasing and racist.

    Now, if we had more equality in media, then in-world logic might be more compelling, because there would be some conceivable chance that the creators were actually going “we often write stories that revolve around women and minorities, but this particular concept we have really works best with a white guy” rather than “we fully intend to only ever write stories about white guys and here’s our excuse this time.”

    But then, you know, the logic would sometimes go the other way, and you’d get occasional cases of “there just aren’t really any men in this setting because reasons.”

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