MRA icon Zed: Let little girls drown, because they’ll probably grow up to be terrible women
What kind of monster will she become?
“Zed,” also known as “The Zen Priest,” was one of the originators of the Men Going Their Own Way “philosophy” and is treated as a wise elder by many longtime MRAs.
WF Price of The Spearhead described a compilation of Zed’s writings as “really quite profound as well as a great read” and used to give it out as a bonus for everyone who signed up for his email newsletter. Paul Elam of A Voice for Men laid it on a bit thicker, saying of the man he described as both a mentor and a friend:
[H]is writings have taken him to iconic status in the minds of many men who have been at this for a while, this writer included. This has happened despite the fact that he has eschewed the path of self promotion and opted to speak from behind the persona of an archetype, maybe because of it. Either way, he has wielded a sharp sword from his underworld den, and worn the uniform of a warrior in the battle for sanity between men and women … .
So what kind of fellow is this Zed?
Well, as I learned from a recent thread over on MGTOWforums.com, where he is officially an “elite member,” he’s the sort of person who thinks you should’t bother to save a four-year-old girl from drowning, because then she’ll grow up into a woman, and most of them are just terrible.
The regulars on the forums there were discussing the case of Michael Patterson, a Georgia man who was paralyzed after diving into a creek to rescue a four-year-old girl from drowning, and who has now died after several weeks in the hospital.
While a few suggested that Patterson was a hero, others made clear they wouldn’t have done the same thing themselves. 0kool put it like this:
i know i would never save an adult CUNT….and i know that as sure as i breathe air. however, i would be hard pressed to save a female child knowing what she might have the potential to do in the future. My hat’s off to the guy. Let’s hope his death isn’t in vain and the child doesn’t become a CUNT piece of shit!
Zed, that grand underground warrior for gender sanity, that icon of the Men’s Rights movement, argued the same thing in slightly more restrained prose. In one comment, he warned of the dire possibility that the seemingly innocent little girl you save could grow up to be
another Amanda Marcunt, or Jessica Valenti, or Betty Friedan? Do we think it is worth a man giving his own life to save the life of a woman who will spend it being totally destructive?
In another, he raised the specter of an even more hated figure, at least amongst MGTOWers and MRAs:
Given the evidence around me, it does appear far more likely that a girl will grow up to be another Sharon Osborne – who thinks it is “fantastic” when a woman cuts off the penis of her husband, or the audience of women who cheered that statement – than a woman who contributes much, even to her own family.
I really can’t think of any woman in the public light who the world would be much worse off without.
When a female is in trouble, if I don’t know her, I don’t see her.
This is the kind of timeless wisdom that makes you an icon in the Men’s Rights movement, I guess.
NOTE: Thanks to @taylerlp on Twitter for the tip.
EDITED TO ADD: When I wrote this post, there were 13 or so comments in the MGTOWforums thread; there are considerably more now, including a number from MGTOWers who say they WOULD try to save a little girl. But Zed only doubles down on his position.
Posted on June 29, 2013, in a voice for men, douchebaggery, evil women, facepalm, female beep boop, I'm totally being sarcastic, internal debate, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, misogyny, MRA, paul elam, the c-word, zed and tagged antifeminism, men's rights, mgtow, misogyny, MRA. Bookmark the permalink. 423 Comments.
On the same logic, you shouldn’t save little boys, because you can’t be sure they won’t grow up to be Hitler/Stalin/Obama/Beck (Delete as applicable).
Not even two years and an apology later can dull the pain of Sharon Osborne’s phantom knife across their genitals. Surely, this makes joking about letting women and children drown PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE. This does not make them look terrible people at all. :(
Side-note: A few years ago, we were tubing down a local river, and stopped by a sandbank for BBQ. I spot an ownerless tube starting to float away, so I ran after and grabbed it, much to the appreciation of the young woman who lost it. I was still feeling like a big damn hero, when not 5 minutes later, one of the other guys I was with spotted something thrashing in the bushes; a young girl had fallen out of her tube, and was snagged in the bushes by her safety jacket.
Now, I like to think that most men, if they had a choice between saving an inner tube for an attractive young woman, and saving a child, would choose the latter every time. These “men” would lift a finger for neither, laughing at the woman for losing the tube, blaming the mother for losing the child, and telling themselves it’s the _women_ who are terrible.
I am truly sorry for the family of Michael Patterson who lost someone they loved.
I’m pretty sure he would want nothing to do with these hateful individuals based on his actions and I am horrified at this discussion. I didn’t think they could get any more foul, but I am again proven wrong by their vile rhetoric.
I really wish these people were just cartoon villains. But they’re not, and I have to deal with that fact.
You said it, leftwingfox.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the most important human rights movement of the 21st century! [throws up in mouth a little]
It’s kind of funny that the Okool guy capitalizes cunt. I hear that’s a sign of veneration in religious literature, like Christians capitalizing LORD in English Bible translations. Maybe something of a “Freudian capitalization”, if you will.
eh, I can’t bring myself to be “shocked” anymore that the MGTOWs use death of other men as a sensationalized jumping board to talk about their own platforms. They don’t see death as a tragic event, but rather an excuse to start throwing out their shitty opinions without having someone call them out on it.
And I’m with you WalkingStickBug. It’s very sad that the man died after doing something so wonderful. I feel heartily for all his loved ones.
Ally, what’s scary to me is how these attitudes seem to be pretty prevalent in the college age crowd… I wanna blame the internet but I think ultimately a broad cultural backlash to the gains women and minorities have made is to blame.
This zen master went to the river for enlightenment and only found rage, resentment, and despair. What we see in nature is a reflection of ourselves.
Wow. I can’t even…what horrendously awful people. Reading that made my poor hungover stomach do some unpleasant things.
I think I might have to go offline, hug my daughters tightly, and then give my wonderful husband a big kiss.
What. An. Asshole.
You know damn well if a woman said that no one should bother saving little boys because you never know what they’ll turn into, these shitheads would apoplectic with rage.
^be apoplectic.
@Anadiomene A lot of these are the frustration of young men who are seeking love and fulfillment and finding it difficult. School was far more gender policed to me than work or social life. Then again, I have far more control over who I interact with now.
leftwingfox: Tubing? Are you in TX as well?
And Dogen said “let the evil little bitches drown before they get the chance to divorce rape anyone”.
(Actually, no, he did not say that, and if reincarnation is real then Zed is coming back as a maggot in his next life.)
FTFY.
What a pathetic lot.
I have to object, on the grounds of humor. They called me “Martwat” in high school, which is exponentially funnier than “Marcunt”, because at least “Martwat” kind of rhymes.
Amanda: I was going to say that “Marcunt” is pretty low on the originality scale. Then again, these jackholes are almost too stupid to breathe on their own, so I’m not expecting much.
So Going Their Own Way isn’t enough anymore? They have to arrange a passive gendercide against women?
I’d be interested in hearing the response from non-MGTOW MRAs, particularly those who feel there isn’t enough “quality pussy” to go around. How would they feel about the MGTOW wishing to restrict the supply yet further?
And yet…these men supposedly don’t support abortion.
Gah. What a shitstain.
@eseldbosustow
I lol’ed to hard. XD
Nah, it just means that 0kool and cunt have a binding contract now.
Oh, right- because if it’s written in all-caps it means it’s a corporation. Wasn’t that the “logic”?
Maybe that’s it. Vaginas simply need to be incorporated, then Republicans would see them as people.
According to MRA (or was it PUA, I forget) logic, the vagina needs communization.
Which troll was it who kept nattering on about that? I know it was one of the ones who thinks that anime is the best source of advice on how society should work.
hellkell: Nope, Canada.
That incident was out in New Brunswick, where tubing was run by a local family, who also ran a cheap grill on that sandbar half-way down the river. You could get mini-tubes for a cooler if requested, alcohol allowed as long as it was in plastic bottles or cans: no glass containers.
Here in Ontario, the closest tubing resort is a little more expensive, and requires a deposit for the tube, and mandatory helmets and lifejackets. No alcohol since it’s in a government park. That’s for the entire day though, so you can do multiple runs for one price.
Oh dammit, now I have a mental image of Sam Jackson delivering Ezekiel 25:17 with that substitution.
@Darth: Hey, what’s wrong with Beck?? Beck’s awesome! I would totally save little child Beck. He’d probably do some kiddie breakdancing to thank me.
What makes you think they’re joking?
Hope.
“Which troll was it who kept nattering on about that? I know it was one of the ones who thinks that anime is the best source of advice on how society should work.”
That was abnoy. Who, btw, either isn’t in Thailand or didn’t take the survey.
Gods, I’m too tired to make coffee. I may have to resort to instant (my usual fresh ground French press brew, which means work, or instant, decision to be made upon determining if anyone did dishes and whether that including the press).
Re: college age — the majority of us are 25-29 (sorry to make the rest of you feel old!)
Reblogged this on respectsexwork.
These men are amoral scumbags. Men have a duty to protect women.
It’s okay, Argenti, I knew I was one of the graybeards around here. ;-)
The scary thing about this type of mouthbreather is they’re not passive.
I worked new high rise construction for 15yrs. I know a woman that was deliberately electrocuted. Another who was riding a golf cart and was intentionally crashed and tipped, nearly killing her. I was threatened with rape on a regular basis.
When you start invading what these guys think is sacred space, they get downright dangerous.
I would LOVE to see more women in the trades, but it isn’t for the feint of heart. You literally put your life at risk, and not just because trades are dangerous to begin with.
Yep, dudes like this won’t merely walk by, they actively cheer, and in some cases, caused the girl/woman to fall.
I feel like the only way these men would save a little girl is if they thought it entitled them to sex and love(and by love I mean being pretty much a servant, since they hate any woman who isn’t like that).
I just stumbled on a disturbing story I’m sure the MRA’s would champion as a great example of justice for fathers. And as in this current thread, I’m sure their attitude would be “who cares what happens to the 6y/o girl?”
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/convicted-sex-offender-nicholas-elizondo-gets-sole-custody-his-6-year-old-daughter
My picture changed… Hmm
Yes. Let young girls drown because they might grow up to be the kind of woman a MGTOW hates, which as we all know is pretty much every woman alive.
No. They’re not a hate movement at all.
Wait, got it. Nvm. Sorry for spam.
Anyways, rabbitwink, Jesus Christ that’s horrible. Knowing the MRM, they probably would have that reaction. Even if its not “who cares”, its still probably going to be the same old “of course this is bad, but I think you people are over reacting, she’s only 6 so she won’t remember. You guys need to stop shaming male sexuality.”
Also, I wonder what feMRAs think of this, that they’d be better off dead since they have the potential to be evil wimmin.
Well, the MGTOWforums guys are at least consistent with this, as they don’t think women have any place in the MR movement and are constantly going on about that. They call AVFM “A Voice for Manginas” because there are women involved with it.
Of course these days Elam is trying desperately to recruit MGTOWers, so GWW is going around pretending that MGTOWers don’t really hate women. I wish I’d saved the comments from her to that effect I ran across on reddit.
Watching feMRAs trying to cover up stuff like this almost makes me feel bad for them.
No, Spider from Mars, men don’t have a duty to protect women. People have a duty to treat other people decently. Can we not with the patriarchal bullshit. Attitudes like that frame women as fragile and without agency, as prizes to be fought over and guarded by men.
I wonder why women would want to divorce men like this and take their children away? It’s very perplexing.
Heck, I’d even leave gender out of it completely: people have a duty to protect each other.
Every movement has it’s clowns.
blauregen, can you name some prominent MRAs and/or MGTOWers who aren’t clowns?
Not from the top of my head. I am sorry. I ocassionally get into discussions where men’s rights advocates participate, and from this I have a reasonable idea about their goals and ideas, but I don’t really follow them close enough to know the prominence and the finer points of their respective positions.
From what I read from your site, the MGTOW don’t seem significantly more insane than some radfem though.
There’s a big difference between a movement with clowns and a movement of clowns. Also, don’t use “insane” as a shorthand for “atrocious and wrong”. These are very different things.
Oh, yeah, I am so sure you’re here in good faith after the radfem false equivalency, blauregen.
@Tulgey Logger. I was using it as a shorthand for displaying abnormal behavorial patterns and/or being disconnected from common social norms, not in a medical or scientific sense. But I am sorry if this use offends you.
@hellkell Ah, sarcasm. :)
It doesn’t offend me, it stigmatizes mental illness by using “insanity” as a repository for everything bad and wrong. Fuck off with that “sorry if you’re offended” bullshit.
I’m sure you can find some unreasonable high-profile feminists.
But you would be hard pressed to find ANY reasonable high-profile MRAs. Or really, any reasonable MRAs at all. From where I’m sitting, it looks like most reasonable people who are initially attracted to the MRM due to whatever reasons tend to run screaming the other direction as soon as they realize that literally all of the MRM leadership are hateful scumbags.
So no, the MRA movement is not comparable to feminism.
I’m going to co-sign that “fuck off.”
That’s an interresting perspective, given that medical professions specifically avoid it nowadays, that it isn’t a term for any specific disorder, and that it sometimes is even used in a positive sense. Can I assume that you would find ‘crazy’ equally offensive?
MRAs aren’t comparable to radfems. Radfems are well, radical. These asshats we see from the MRM are basically from the core of the movement, they’re generally not just random trolls in the comments, they’re pretty much where the entire MRM gets its ideas from.
Show me a relevant MRA that’s not an asshat and I we will give you cookies, or whatever is worth it.
Also a broken clock is right twice a day. Just because some MRAs you see don’t always express their awful opinions on certain issues, doesn’t mean that they might not have those views.
Well everyone else ninja’d me.
“From what I read from your site, the MGTOW don’t seem significantly more insane than some radfem though.”
As far as I know, even the worst radfems do not condone or support abuse and assault in any way. And while I completely reject the idea of lesbian separatism that some radfems espouse, at least it’s a form of organization purely aimed at dismantling an oppressive system. Unlike the majority of MGTOWs, who not only condone and support abuse and assault, but also justify their separatism by talking about how horrible and “bitchy” women are (especially Western women), how women aren’t willing to have sex with them, how all women want to steal from fathers, how entitled and spoiled all women are, and so on.
So, yeah, I’m going to have to disagree here.
And thirding Tugley on your usage of “insane.”
Also, ignore the “we” in the “I will give you cookies” sentence.
Hey guys, be fair, doctors don’t use the term anymore, so that totes removes decades of stigma attached to word.
Oh, a dictionary troll.
You wouldn’t have used the term if it wasn’t generally understood as saying “mentally ill/insane = irrational/bad”.
Blauragenn, don’t worry about these closed-minded dunderheads and their constant attempts to undermine freethought by preaching about false equivalency and demanding apologies about everything which could possibly in some way be offensive. Such is the paradigmatic orientation of this site.
Commenters on this site claim to hate the PUA movement, but actually the PUA movement are in a sense their brothers. Look at how long someone like NwoSlave was able to stay around, compared to somebody like ProPatria Truthteller, who advocated for Christian female-run patriarchy and opposed the abortion/military/industrial complex. You will probably ban me soon because you cannot stand my truth and beauty; the PUAs are also demented weaklings who also cannot stand my explications of Christian neodadaism and meaningful intellectual dialogue about important issues of the day.
What in the world is a “paradigmatic orientation?”
Can you write in non-pretentious-speak, please?
You’ll probably get banned because you’re a sock. A very unoriginal sock.
You shouldn’t give it away so quickly.
bluagren: “crazy” isn’t any better. Fuck off.
Moar posts.
I agree with Ally. I also often see feminists call out radfems. Here and on other feminist blogs its often. Some feminists hold a grudge against them for giving feminism a bad name. Also are you sure the radfems you are reading about are actually radfems? (I know that the feminist who said “all men are rapists” wasn’t actually saying all men are rapists. It was a character in her book, and the line was to express her despair when finding out that her daughter was raped. It wasn’t the author’s view at all).
The reason for the “insane” thing is because most MRAs aren’t holding their terrible views due to mental issues, or trauma, or living in extreme social environments that warp perception. Its just people being jerks, usually.