Up from misogyny?

9

A couple of interesting reads:

Check out Escaping the Friendzone: The story of a former right-wing MRA on Jezebel Groupthink, a confessional mini-memoir by a dude who traces his “transition from misogynist, homophobic, right-wing MRA to raging intersectional feminist atheist leftist.”

Meanwhile, that guy who just got that rapey pickup manual funded by Kickstarter, Ken Hoinsky? Well, he’s apparently been quite upset by the criticism and is now pledging to make the manual entirely non-rapey. No, really. He met with the guy who started the petition about his book, and released an apology of sorts saying, among other things:

The concept that someone could interpret what I was writing to be a rape guide shocked me at first. But I took a long look in the mirror and absorbed all the great feedback coming in from across the Internet…

Here is what I realized: In the most offensive and controversial parts, I chose my words poorly. Very, very poorly. I meant one thing and people were reading another. THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM. I needed to seriously evaluate every last word of my writing to make sure I wasn’t encouraging sexual assault in any way, shape, or form.

Ben Kassoy of DoSomething.Org … graciously offered to meet with me to provide alternate opinions and insights to help remove all of the potentially harmful advice. I am proud to say that his was the first of many meetings I will be having with anti-rape and anti-abuse organizations and experts to make sure that the advice I am offering is free of any tinge of sexual assault or rape vibes. I will be rewriting Above The Game under their guidance and insight.

Right here, on abovethegame.info, I will be starting an international dialogue on how we remove the negative stigma and shame that drives men to seek out seduction advice in the first place. My name may have been martyred in the press, but I will be using this opportunity for good.

The answer isn’t censoring all dialogue surrounding the issue ala Kickstarter’s statement on banning all men’s dating guide projects. Women’s rights and “male seduction guides” can and should coexist

P.S. To my loyal followers from reddit, you should already be aware my writings are not intended to encourage rape. So rest assured the final book will be in the same style you are used to. I’m just taking us to the next level.

Frankly, it doesn’t sound like he’s really learned much of anything from the experience yet, but if he actually follows through with his promised meetings with anti-rape activists he might. We’ll just have to see how that goes.

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Posted on June 25, 2013, in antifeminism, feminism, inspiring, misogyny, MRA, oppressed white men, PUA, rape, rape culture and tagged , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 137 Comments.

  1. “Yeah, it’s official: the filibuster worked. The bill is dead.”

    Yay! Also, DOMA has been struck down. Double yay!

  2. Hey-hey! I can’t wait to see what Scalia’s saying! (sarcasm: I totally can wait, because it’s going to be awful)

  3. And they let the previous ruling on Prop 8 stand, which means same-sex marriage is legal in CA. I didn’t really expect them to go further.

    At least the Supreme Court got one thing right this session. Voting rights is another story…

  4. anadiomene122

    If someone insults something kinda minor about your physical appearance five minutes after giving you the once over, Game’s on. Or if they strain to work 50 Shades of Gray or Dexter into the conversation and then stare deeply into your eyes within minutes of meeting you… or start redpilling waitstaff or bartenders by acting like gigantic assholes to them, ostentatiously, then grinning at you. Or telling you weird and unlikely sounding sob stories about their childhood feels when you just met them five minutes ago. Or inappropriately touching you. You are being PUAed. It will almost always be a dorky-ish white guy who is wearing Axe body spray and clothes that don’t match his personality.

    Literally everywhere I’ve gone out in the past year this has happened, often many times with inter PUA competition, and I’m not an HB10. At this point I can just about predict everything a PUA will say and do and even anticipate it (so now you’re going to say something about your parents divorcing when you were twelve…) Luckily “game” is extremely predictable and easy to turn around on people and get them to say/do things that make them look stupid and show that you’re onto them.

  5. Literally everywhere I’ve gone out in the past year this has happened, often many times with inter PUA competition, and I’m not an HB10.

    I guess that at 36 I’m way too old to be PUA:d. I don’t go out a lot, but if I do and someone hits on me, it’s always some guy asking me what I do for a living, and when I say “philosopher” they start asking me about that and going on about how I must be really intelligent and profound and whatnot. I’ll freely admit that this would totally be an efficient strategy if I’d been single or in an open relationship, since I’m such a sucker for flattery… Insulting the way I look on the other hand? NFW.

  6. Sometimes I wish I had a reason to go to bars, because being hit on by PUAs sounds kind of entertaining. Or maybe I just get my misandrist kicks by rejecting men.

  7. The latter, Emily, obviously the latter!

    Oh I just remembered, I’ve actually had two other, um, strategies employed at me during the last years. One guy who started singing “I wanna know what love is” to me on his knees, which was actually kind of funny since it was so incredibly over-the-top, and another guy who always came up to me when he was drunk and started talking about how beautiful my tattoos are (I have lots of tattoos on my arms), occasionally also grabbing my arms to rub them. The latter was kind of annoying, but I still take that any day to some moron just whipping his cock out and placing my hand on it by force.

  8. Wendy Davis is honestly one of the most incredible people I’ve ever seen.

    House Davis: We Do Not Sit.

  9. Also, DOMA and Prop 8 overturned and on the same morning I get a Groupon for fireworks. Coincidence? I think not.

  10. Ding Dong DOMA is Dead!

  11. Gosh, my penguin (whore spirits) are in Pierre! Thanks to my collaborator (I forgot who mentioned the whore spirits bit, sorry but woo hoo thanks)

    Oh, was that your script? If so, I should add you to the byline.

  12. So I haven’t read either the comments or the article…just kinda popping to say it almost looks like the guy in pink is doing ninja turtle cosplay.

  13. There’s this Swedish psychologist-turned-entertainer (he does mind-reading tricks) that wrote a PUA book some time ago, called “alla får ligga” (everyone gets laid). It’s apparently aimed at all genders and orientations, the idea being that the tricks are basically the same regardless. I haven’t read it, but I reckon it can’t be that bad, comparatively speaking, if he thinks men and women essentially works the same…

    Might be tough for them to be a misogynistic douchenozzle, but it doesn’t stop them advocating manipulative or downright rapey behaviour, and therefore being a douchenozzle. It’s possible they didn’t – but the possibility of douchnozzlery is still there…

  14. opium4themasses

    If DOMA is gone, doesn’t that open the door for full faith and credit cases between residents married in equal marriage states living in or moving to unequal marriage states? (Sorry, very US centric)

  15. @opium4themasses

    If I’m reading parts of the decision correctly, that’s EXACTLY what it does.

  16. “some moron just whipping his cock out and placing my hand on it by force.”

    Hate this. Happened to me at work, when I was a teenager. Got pulled into the sleeping bags (which hang up next to each other, lengthwise), and this creeper did just that.

    The guy was about 25, super conservative, and spent all of his workdays either frothing about right wing stuff, or being sexually inappropriate and pushy. Totally gross. Harassment was part of every job I had as a teen, except ONE. Yuck. This was before widespread notions of sexual harassment being bad, and such existence of such HR classes (which I have taken at my adult jobs- Im 36 now).

    I hate to think about all the new harassers PUA and MRAs are making.

  17. edit function needed!^

  18. I’m sorry that happened to you, Stacey. (I just mentioned it because it was apparently advice given out by this PUA who got funded by kickstarter, not because it had actually happened to me.)

  19. Katz, I took the liberty of changing it from “We do not sit” to “We do not yield” in honor of her saying “I do not yield the floor” and made her a house sigil.

    They didn’t have trainers on the sigil maker so I gave her a microphone instead.

  20. historophilia

    I also made one for Leticia Van de Putte because she was awesome as well.

  21. Historophilia: Very nice. Someone previously made this one and I was all like “WTF? A stiletto? Where’s the pink sneaker?”

  22. anadiomene – I now have the wonderful image of someone taking a PUA checklist with her to bars and starting to tick off items as the current douchenozzle trots them out.

    I bet that would piss PUAs off mightily.

  23. Screaming Fist

    From the “Former MRA” article:

    But some days I get burnt out thinking about and fighting about these horrible things that are going on everywhere every day. So I take a few hours and go to Powell’s or eat brunch and drink a beer and don’t even think about it. That’s what I feel guilty for. I can literally, at any time, stop dealing with oppression. Those being oppressed don’t get to do that.

    That sounds like hell. But he’s a servile little feminist dog, gulping the dogma in great gulps, so that’s all that matters.

    MRAs have too much self-respect.

  24. I know, caring about other people is such a drag.

  25. Screaming Fist

    No, it’s careful and deliberate guilt-trapping, built up through years of existence in a tacitly anti-male society and then activated by feminist groups. I might argue that it is a form of psychological terrorism.

  26. “No, it’s careful and deliberate guilt-trapping, built up through years of existence in a tacitly anti-male society and then activated by feminist groups. I might argue that it is a form of psychological terrorism.”

    Can you at least try to not sound pretentious and stupid?

  27. “MRAs have too much self-respect.”

    LOL

  28. I dunno, I’m a feminist man and I don’t feel guilt-tripped. I also don’t feel that society is anti-male, or that I’m being psychologically terrorized for my manliness.

    You hear that, Manboobzers! TRY HARDER!

  29. Your posts!
    They confuse me, Oh Shouting Hands.
    Adjourn, explain, the lie of the land.

    What sounds like hell, is to be a burnt out wreck?
    To able to not deal with oppression, cut it off, say “To heck!”

    That’s your Hell? Dante’d be proud (At least his version had more… Pathos).

    He gulps down the dogma, except on days he don’t
    So just because he’s decided he won’t
    Be a victim of apathy
    every day
    That’s Hell! Sure, I’ll listen to what you have to say.

    MRA’s have too much self respect!
    The greatest denominator of this is their tremendous neglect!
    Of words, wisdom and wit
    And their predilection for using the word “shit”
    It’s a tacitly anti-male society
    And it’s run by anti-males of great pomposity
    And this enormousity
    is most diffidifososiity

    MY LOGIC IS UNDENIABLE IN ITS MONSTROSITY.

    Eh, I disagree.
    It’s not too hard on me.
    I’m pretty, you see – so the world is easier.

    Because I’ve used my amazing wiles
    to tame men and lead them down river wilds
    so they crash and burn amidst the rapid rapids
    And I like to gut them, like rabbits.

    You get four pauses to realize that was a joke, and the world isn’t anti-male. q:

  30. [...] and then activated by feminist groups

    Oh gods, we’re all some sort of Femchurian Candidates! Well played feminist overlords, very diabolical.

  31. Actually, it does make sense to say that MRAs have too much self-respect – if by “self-respect” you mean narcissism, arrogance, and a severe lack of empathy.

  32. I did a series of tweets about the opinions/dissents.

    The opinion is basically, “this shit violates Equal Protection; and also flies in the face of full faith and credit.

    The dissents are, Roberts: “Lots of people are for bigotry, why should we stop them”.

    Scalia says,”Congress made the law, it’s not our job to overturn them (never mind what I did yesterday on the VRA”., and besides it’s totes legit to legislate morality (if I agree with it).

    Alito said, “People have traditionally been bigots, and lots of conservatives wrote op-eds and law review pieces which wondered if same sex marriage might be bad. Since there is not tradition of same-sex marriage we have to assume it is bad, and let the bigots keep it illegal.”

    Because reasons.

    The opinion was 30 pages. The dissents 47.

  33. CassandraSays

    Guilt-trapping – the process by which you kidnap a mama bear, have it yell about the baby bears not cleaning their rooms until said baby bears come running to apologize and fall into the pit that’s covered in leaves, so now you have a pit full of bears.

  34. No, it’s careful and deliberate guilt-trapping, built up through years of existence in a tacitly anti-male society and then activated by feminist groups. I might argue that it is a form of psychological terrorism.

    The anti-male society which is run by men, pays men more for the same work, punishes women who have families (and rewards men who do), and tells women they are worthless (and that they are ugly, unless they fit into a narrow mold of beauty; which is shaped by men).

    That anti-male society?

    Or do you come from some far away world?

  35. I dunno, I’m a feminist man and I don’t feel guilt-tripped. I also don’t feel that society is anti-male, or that I’m being psychologically terrorized for my manliness.

    That’s because it’s not yet the right time for them trigger the “guilt bomb,” They’ve been priming you for years. Until one day, you’re on the subway, or waiting in line at the bank and the BOOM the guilt bomb is activated.

  36. RE: chibigodzilla

    I thought feminists wanted, you know, concrete change and action, not just general ‘men feeling bad’.

  37. @Katz someone else spoke of freeing the whore spirits, I conjectured about their possible penguin form and augchorella (sp? Sorry) drew them.

  38. *pops in*

    Terrorized
    Congress
    Bomb

    Hi NSA, enjoying your PRISM?

  39. I thought feminists wanted, you know, concrete change and action, not just general ‘men feeling bad’.

    That’s exactly what they wanted you to think.

  40. OK, I added you to the credits page.

  41. anadiomene – I now have the wonderful image of someone taking a PUA checklist with her to bars and starting to tick off items as the current douchenozzle trots them out.

    I bet that would piss PUAs off mightily.

    OK, now I want to get some girlfriends together and play PUA bingo.

  42. Oh yes!

    If there’s ever a Manboobz meetup, we should do that. :D

  43. Wow, Katz, I am honoured. Thanks!

  44. opium4themasses

    @howard bannister and pecunium

    Awesome. This ruling makes such a big difference in the lives of people. I have had a number of friends with long term partners unable to get permanent residency.

    (I know that is a bit of privelege, but it’s the experience of DOMA I am familiar with)

  45. One of the things that struck me about “Above the Game” is that it seemed an especially crude and intrusive Mystery Method. Neil Strauss’s “The Game” is excellent on non-intrusive social touch, so for someone to include cold-calling stranger-groping without relationship context and call it “Above the Game” is a bit puzzling. I didn’t fund it because it seemed cruel, crude, and derivative. I am interested in seeing if a rewrite gets it into the territory of normal dating advice and seeing if any PUA content remains. I suspect that a rewrite will not be enough and Hoinsky will use it as an excuse to claim that feminists are impossible to please.

    Just got back from the clubs. The women were spitting, but only into the drinks served them in LOWball glasses.

  46. Dammit, Eurosabra! I was waiting for Nepenthe to get the full sidebar.

  47. CassandraSays

    Hey, there’s still hope.

  48. Cassandra! Are you serving out your exile here? “Now no way can I stray; save back to the JtO thread, all the world’s my way.”

  49. CassandraSays

    I was going to, but I don’t think I’m drunk enough to make sense of the Eurobabble.

  50. When it’s late and we’re the only two people on, I always feel like Statler and Waldorf.

  51. Hurr hurr hurr.

    Hurr.

  52. neuroticbeagle

    @Katz and Cassandra

  53. Ha, well I’ve dropped a probably-pointless effort in the JtO thread and wandered over here too.
    ::waves to pair in balcony seat::

  54. CassandraSays

    Forgive me, Father Dawkins, for I have sinned.

  55. Join us in the balcony!

  56. Cassandra – LOL!

    katz – love to, is there popcorn?

    (Silly question, I know.)

  57. neuroticbeagle

    Here Kittehs- I’m sure ze will share.

  58. CassandraSays

    OT but I just went to visit my neighborhood friendly kitty and talk about squee. I wish I could get a photo of him but he’s only around at night and he’s a dark grey tabby so pretty much impossible to photograph in dim light.

  59. Pecunium: That photo is amazing.

  60. HAHAHAHAHA possibly my favourite Man Boobz cat picture ever.

  61. Pecunium, that cat pic is amazing!

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