Heartiste: Men need to be able to hit their mates in order to “retain” them
A better way to retain your mate: Be a sharp-dressed man.
You may know Heartiste as a reactionary, misogynistic, proudly racist dispenser of manipulative, sometimes abusive dating advice to would-be “alpha males.”
Did you also know that he was an open advocate of domestic violence against women?
Well, I didn’t, until a friend pointed out a strange little exchange on his Twitter account the other day.
Last Tuesday morning, apropos of nothing in particular, Heartiste made the following pronouncement:
When someone asked what sort of threats he meant, he elaborated:
The latter three items on the list (“Abandonment. Shame. Ostracism”) are standard techniques in Heartiste’s dating strategy, but the open advocacy of violence is, I think, new.
In addition to being repugnant, Heartiste’s argument here doesn’t even particularly make sense. Essentially, he seems to be saying that men need to be able to hit women to keep them in line so that they won’t have to … hit women to keep them in line.
Also, the phrase “mate retention strategy,” apparently popular with Evo Psych types, gives me the creeps. I’m pretty sure the best “mate retention strategy” is to be the sort of person your “mate” wants to be in a relationship with.
I did a quick search for the phrase, and found numerous references to two academic studies. One suggested that some women fake orgasms as a “mate retention strategy.” Another possibly more revealing one claimed that men of “low mate value” often insult their mates to lower their self-esteem so they won’t feel confident enough to leave. That seems more or less in line with what Heartiste’s general approach. And certainly, by any reasonable definition of the term, Heartiste and his followers are some pretty “low value” people, both as “mates” and as decent human beings generally.
I also found this reference to research by Evo Psych big daddy David Buss suggesting that violence — surprise! — isn’t actually a particularly effective “mate retention strategy.”
Also, beating up your mate is, you know, just generally a pretty shitty thing to do.
If Heartiste takes his tweets down, I’ve got screenshots.
EDITED TO ADD: Heartiste has really been going wild with the Twitter lately.
Here he claims to have invented the term “hivemind.”
After I pointed out that this belief was delusional, he suggested that I kill myself. Very alpha!
He’s also been on a bit of a racist rampage, posting lots of stuff like this:
See also here, here, here, here, and here.
Phrasing your racism in pseudoscientific terms doesn’t make it right, dude. It just makes you a pretentious racist.
Posted on June 24, 2013, in advocacy of violence, alpha males, creepy, domestic violence, douchebaggery, evo psych fairy tales, grandiosity, heartiste, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, PUA, racism and tagged domestic violence, heartiste, misogyny, pick-up artists, pickup artists, PUA. Bookmark the permalink. 801 Comments.
LO-fucking-L. Women can do lots of things wrong, Greg (champion of abusers everywhere). That doesn’t change the fact that domestic violence against women performed by men is, in fact, that man’s fault.
@hrovitnir LOVE the IT Crowd. Also love Darkplace which features a few people from both Boosh and IT Crowd
F-ing brilliant. There are quite a few “stupid women” jokes in it but they’re, I believe, at the expense of people who make stupid women joke and not at women.
I really just love British Comedy. IT Crowd has some iffy stuff, like going to court over the mesuse kissing Roy’s bottom and the whole Douglas sexual harassment angle, but eh… most of it gets away with the whole “this guy is just horrible and it’s funny at his expense” angle.
One of my fave parts was when Jenn acted as Fredo and they played D&D and Moss role played as Roy’s ex and said goodbye. That scene was so amazing.
And I also love Richard Ayoade in Boosh. His contemptuous relationship with Tony Harrison is so hilarious. And different characters reference Tusk multiple times throughout the series.
I also watch the Inbetweeners and the Misfits which are reeeeeaaallllly offensive but hilarious. I can’t help it. It’s like British people can say anything so long as they do it in that accent and I’ll lose my shit. Misfits comes with a MASSIVE trigger warning, so much rapey shit and so many characters who are the token offensive asshole. My dream man, Joe Gilgun, plays one of the offensive assholes. It’s quite the predicament watching that show. Though it helps that he has a literal split personality that is sensitive and dissects his asshole nature.
Proving you’re not a punk is never a reason to hit someone and is a character flaw on the person’s behalf. Breaking stuff? JFC, call the cops, get her arrested for vandalization. Being disrespectful? The fuck is wrong with you?
The only reason for anyone to ever hit anyone else is in self defense in order to subdue the attacker within reason if they cannot escape. I don’t care how many times someone asks me to hit them, if I’m not in danger, I’m not justified.
So there are three options when the woman is acting like a “psycho:”
1. Break up with her
2. Help her get professional help if she is legitimately mentally ill
3. Hit her
Guess which one of those things is illegal and immoral? Guess which one you shouldn’t do?
So you’re 12 or a grown man because if you’re 12 maybe you can get away with being this childish and immature, if not, you have the physical and mental ability to remove yourself from a situation in which you are in no danger and doing so is the only reasonable option. Everything else makes you just as bad if not worse than she is.
If you find yourself having to demoralize a guy, then just leave him alone. You’re not obgliated to be with him. Why be a bully towards a guy? The same goes for guys. Why call a woman out of her name, and still be with her?
If I admit that Greg’s pathetic attempts to hurt our feelings by projecting his own misery onto us amuse me does that make me a horrible person? Because every comment he makes pretty much reads as I’M SO BITTER AND ANGRY AND MISERABLE, WON’T YOU JOIN ME IN THAT FEELING?
Sorry, Greg, no can do.
LMFAO
All environments aren’t the same.
You people are comical.
What’s opinion what Wanetta Gibson did to Brian Banks?
The only time you should have to put your hands on another person is in self defense. Nothing else is acceptable, including women bruising your ego.
I take immense pleasure in the fact that attitudes like yours, Greg, are disappearing. You may think that secretly every other man out there is a cheerleader for abuse like you, but you’re damn wrong.
You don’t care what the jury thinks when they lock you away for assault? So badass. I wish I could be as cool and carefree as you.
If a woman is demoralizing a man, she is wrong. If a man retaliates by hitting her, he is MORE wrong. You see how two people can be wrong at the same time?
Calling cops in South Central Los Angeles doesn’t work.
This crap is laughable.
Do you people think this country is one huge suburbia? No low income areas, no ghettos, no psychotic women who intentionally target men who they see as easy targets, and etc?
BLOCKQUOOOOOOTESS!!!
“All environments aren’t the same.”
Indeed. It’s hot and humid here. Probably hot and dry in the dessert. Don’t know if it’s humid in Australia currently, but I know it’s winter down there. And that’s not even touching things like rainforests!
Do you think people don’t beat the shit out of each other in suburbia over bruised egos as well? I’d like you to meet my little brother who is a giant piece of shit, starting fights all the time, who was raised with a silver spoon in his mouth. How you choose to react to situations is what determines your character and if you choose to escalate situations and go beyond what is reasonably necessary to protect yourself you are not only morally wrong but legally wrong.
Speaking of environments not being the same, it’s hot and humid as fuck here. Where is it in the low 80s with no humidity?
MRAbot still trying? Poor MRAbot.
Greg isn’t so much moving the goalposts as he is juggling them while spinning in circles.
Most cops wouldn’t even take a domestic violence call seriously unless a weapon is used or if there is a life threatening injury. BtW, I am talking about in urban areas where women are known to be abusive towards men they see as soft.
Back in 2001, I called the cops on my ex girlfriend for threatening to get her cousin to anally rape me. The cops didn’t do crap about it.
Now if a man made the same threat towards a woman, he would be thrown under the jail.
Briznecko: if you find that place, please let me know. ATX is going to be 104 or some such nonsense today.
Gregbot: cool story, bro.
This has been your daily reminder that, where there’s sexism, there’s racism.
Oh gods the mixed metaphors!!
You’re right, he would get thrown in jail over hearsay because that always is the outcome. He said/she said always works in the woman’s favor and is never dismissed for lack of evidence.
See, we don’t think it’s okay to excuse non-consensual, non-defensive violence because it happens in South LA*, because we think people of color deserve to live in non-violent neighborhoods too.
*Note to those who aren’t Angelenos, “South Central Los Angeles” (or the more common usage South Los Angeles) is a region of the city that is about 98% POC; about 67% latin@, about 31% African American as of 2010.
Thrown under the jail? He’s been studying at the Fidelbogan school of confusing metaphors.
And nobody rated his flounce from a page back! I give it a flat 0. Not funny, not original, didn’t stick even for a few minutes.
I guess all those white abusers I know in suburbia don’t actually exist and are all figments of my imagination. I know enough white, middle class, male AND female abusers. Abuse is not a “hoodrat” thing, you racist, classist asshole.
Damn you blockquote monster, and my tendency to type “blocquote”
Northern California also! But without the possible storms.
@Viscaria
Good summary of everything wrong withy Greggy’s comment.
Nobody does that Greg, but the fact you think women do it is a sign your an abuser or abuse apologist piece of shit. Have a nice day, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, ect ect
Citation needed. I’m sure little fucks like you think any time a woman is not terribly polite, or even *gasp* rude she’s asking to be hit. Go hug a cactus .
Citation also needed. And posting now before word press eats my comment.
Oh my god, I was helping my mom watch my nephew and do some measurements during the inspection on the place she’s moving into today and the inspector had the heat on just to make sure it was working properly and I was struggling to maintain a train of thought because it’s been really hot and humid here and add to it turning on the heat? I didn’t sign up for that!
It says a lot about you if your first reaction to the problem of cops not showing up when you call 911 is “go immediately into Road Warrior mode” and not, say, “improve 911 service.”
I also observe that Greg hasn’t thought of a single situation where you might need to hit a white guy.
My environment* is still flooded in some areas and the rivers are still flowing super fast. Still, we have pulled together and are working to repair the damage! I’m anxious to get back to work, but they don’t want a lot of people downtown when emergency vehicles and personnel need access.
*Not my immediate surroundings of course
@Marie I’m not about to ask for a citation of women getting into men’s faces because it happens. Yes, there are women who do this because there are shitty women on this planet AND THOSE WOMEN ARE WRONG. Getting in their face back puts you on their level and hitting them makes you MORE WRONG.
I also wouldn’t put it past women with tons of internalized misogyny to fight a woman in honor of a man’s pride. Those women are also more wrong than the woman who insulted someone.
My general rule is, when you can reasonably avoid physically harming someone, AVOID IT! Your pride is not worth hospital bills, either for yourself or the other person, or the trial.
On a somewhat related point, one of my coworkers actually has his hands registered as a weapon, because he knows some really good martial arts (not sure what kind at the moment) and could easily kill someone, but if he does need to use self-defense, that might be used against him in trial.
BTW, if your “lady friends” did beat up a woman who was disrespecting you, they are also in the wrong.
Well, you’d be stupid, but they biker would still be in the wrong.
It is not acceptable to respond to verbal abuse with physical violence. FULL STOP.
Blockquote monster successfully evaded! *throws party*
@Amnesia
Aw :( I couldn’t see your art because photobucket seems to hate me.
@Greg
No, Greggy, we just don’t think anything besides physical violence (ie: hitting him first) should be responded to with…physical violence. It’s not that hard.
Greg’s wishes of inconvience suck XD I”d love a bunch of cats, and the friend zone is where you are friends. I have cats and friends? Great, sign me up!
And that is terrible. Terrible I say. The terrible-est.
Damn, I think I already used my ‘don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.’
@chibigodzilla
Ik, I”m tearing up already :’)
@Greg
Go to hell. You’re full of shit, you’re a creepy domestic abuse apologist, and you’re boring, too.
I guess he couldn’t stick to the flounce…
I’m Black.
I see a lot of Female abuser apologist on this blog.
Now what do you people think about Brian Banks and Wanetta Gibson?
We don’t care you’re black.
Where do you see this apologism? Links please.
Why do you think you get to demand what we think about anything? I personally think it sucks, but if you’re trying to say that the Banks case means that false accusations are a huge problem, well, you’re wrong.
He’s OF’s stupid flying monkey is my guess.
…Can you even read what you write?
Re: Greg
See, I’m kind of pissed, because this summer I’ve had to deal with assholes catcalling me and giving me creepy leers from their cars, which is actually demoralizing (and dehumanizing) and Greggy here is making some damn hypothetical here to give excuses on why he should hit woman. Walk in shoes full of legos, greggy. High-heeled shoes.
Citation needed, you pathetic fuck.
@Jessay
Alright. I’ll take your word for it. (not sarcasm, to clarify.) It’s just not something I’ve ever seen happen, and no way I was trusting Trolly on it.
@Greg
Ok. Which parts?
I see a guy who’s making shit up.
False rape is a huge problem, because some people in both genders use it as a “come up” to get quick money. Take notice that I said in both genders, because males do it too.
No DNA, no arrest. No signs of trauma, no arrest.
Says the guy who said this:
Imaginary problems, the greatest issue of the century.
You are so full of shit I can smell you through my screen.
Citation needed. God, Greg, can’t you use something that’s not assfax?
FTFY
And the rest of greg’s stuff… is too disgusting to touch
*sigh*
Or too disgusting not to touch
Ableism plus sexism! We should make a bigot bingo and see how many you fill out
Also, Greg: Your ego is not a reason to beat someone up.
My brother occasionally does annoying stuff like making really bad jokes. I somehow manage not to beat him up because of the stupid crap. It must be because I love him, and oh yeah, am not a despicable shit stain of a human being like you, Greg.
Beating people up for doing “stupid crap” is not self defense; read your own writing. You are an abuse apologist. You justify abuse by saying it could be okay in non-self defense situations (like someone “disrespects” you.)
Since only 3 percent of rapists will ever spend a day in jail, not only is it unlikely the police would do anything if someone threatened a woman like that, it is unlikely the police would do anything if someone DID THAT to a woman.
@katz
That’s three, then..
Marie, if a man is demoralizing you, go pepper spray his face or hit him with a stun gun.
You won’t get a peep out of me if I saw you doing that to a dude if he was cat calling you.
I can’t stand guys who do that crap.
@Briz.
I have a right to defend myself.
@Greg
Um, I can’t stand them either, but that doesn’t mean I want to attack them O_o ::judging you:: I just want them to stop fucking doing it
Marie, go get yourself arrested. Be sure to inform the cops that Greg is your attorney.
Greg, you aren’t talking about self-defense.
And, how is false rape a huge problem when rape is not even treated seriously? I mean, people normally start slut-shaming and victim-blaming in every rape trial, or worse, bemoaning the rapists’ bright future being lost, WHEN THERE IS VIDEO EVIDENCE. When there is NO evidence (assuming this is a false accusation case), how do you think that would happen?
I’m not saying no one falsely accuses rape (though IIRC most of the time the “false accusations” are the case of a mistaken identity). I’m saying THE RATE OF FALSE ACCUSATIONS IS PROBABLY THE SAME (or less) THAN FALSE REPORTS OF ANY OTHER CRIME AND IT IS NOT A HUGE PROBLEM.
Of course, the perfect reaction to a slap is “knocking someone out”! That’s not an overraction AT ALL.
@CassandraSays
Will do* XD
*note: will not actually do.
/sarcasm, obvs
Greg has now moved past juggling the goalposts into bending them with his mind like Uri Geller.
@Briznecko
It was probably clearly sarcasm to everyone except Greg, not that a clarification hurts.
@CassandraSays
Yeah, I really can’t tell what he wants here. I mean he pretty much just walked in (metaphorically, b/c it’s online) and said I SHOULD BE VIOLENT IF I WANT TO WAAAH WOMEN DISRESPECT ME and then tried to back track around it and pretend what he was saying was just self defense.
The only possible thing I can think of is if his ego has taken corporeal form and diminishes a little bit every time someone doesn’t worship him.
Fine, I’ll bite the Brian Banks bait
The worst case that MRA’s can find of a false rape accusation is one where the accused was eventually exonerated, and has been signed to play in the NFL. Meanwhile, the accuser has been ordered to pay $2.6 million in damages.
This is not intended to minimize the fact that he spent 5+ years in jail, just that a) It hasn’t completely ruined his life like the MRAs like to bang on about and b) she is not getting away without any consequences.
Greg – I should be able to hit women if they disrespect me!
Everyone – Dude, that’s not cool.
Greg – I see that you all love abusive women. Also, false rape accusations!
Everyone – Wait, what?
Greg – You will die alone with many cats. Also, Brian Banks.
@Marie
Okay, I set up a Flickr account, let’s see if that works…
My Artwork Described Earlier
Gotta go to work now!
@ Marie.
An abuser won’t stop until you teach him or her a lesson.
That goes for physical and emotional abusers.
Abusers only comprehend, physical violence, long term prison time, or having their child taken away by DCFS (my personal favorite).
Amneeeeeesia! Join us on DeviantArt! JOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNN UUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSS
(Everyone who has been posting art should join us on Deviantart. We could totally start a MBZ group.)
You people will be single for life.
I’ll be sure to tell my lovers that.
Because the flip side is that you aver women deserve to be hit, just because some man feels put upon.
Tell me, does a man deserve to be hit if he’s disrespectful?
If a woman slaps me, and I didn’t instigate being hit, I’m knocking her out. I don’t care what anyone thinks.
Not even the jury.
I’m not an abuser apologist.
I agree. You don’t apologise for it at all. You praise, encourage, and celebrate abuse.
@Amnesia.
I love your art. Especially the one with the person resting their head on the table with the glass. It cheered me up looking at it. :D
And ah, what the hell, I guess I’ll indulge in some shameless self promotion:
My art’s:
How I envision sargent Fuery’s face in FMA
my version of revan from kotor
lust from FMA
… if you can’t tell, I draw mostly fan art. XD
Could you please link to the abuse resources that say this? No? Fuck you very much then.
I have seen no fewer than five of my friends through the tail end of abusive relationships in the past six months alone. I’ve read a LOT about abuse lately, and about how to deal with it. Stuff written by victims and professionals.
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Also, talking about your ‘personal favorite’ way to deal with abusers, and it’s using children as a weapon? You’re disgusting.