Dating guru Alex Matlock: Sex with women who fear you and push you away might not be much fun
Protip: This does not mean “yes.”
So “dating” guru Roosh has a post up on his Return of Kings blog by another self-professed dating guru, Alex Matlock, who rates various types of “bad sex” according to the type of female partner who’s involved in them, including such charmingly named types as “The one that tries too much (aka The Disaster)” and “The one that doesn’t move (aka The Starfish or The Doll).”
I expected a good deal of standard-issue manosphere misogyny in Matlock’s list, but I honestly couldn’t make it past his description of what he regards as the second-worst type of female sex partner: “The one that’s scared (aka The Virgin).” Because what he’s describing doesn’t sound so much like “bad sex” as “date rape.”
[TRIGGER WARNING for what follows; emphasis mine.]
.
.
.
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This girl doesn’t necessarily have to be a virgin because she can still act the part many years after she’s popped that priceless cherry. She will usually look at you with fear in her eyes as if she has no idea about what’s going to happen. She gently pushes you away as if she’s not ready for the event and when it does happen she continues to act like it’s the first time. She usually sits in some extremely awkward positions that make you give up and just go missionary. This girl will eventually bust your nut but she’ll surely leave you with a sense of disappointment and/or guilt.
Uh, Mr. Matlock, I’m hoping for everyone’s sake that this is a hypothetical “humorous” scenario you’ve come up with for the sake of this article and not something you’ve been a part of in the actual real world on a regular basis, because, unless you’ve left out that portion of the hypothetical events in which the woman in question clearly and unequivocally consents to having sex with your hypothetical protagonist here, what you’ve just described as “bad sex” (for the hypothetical dude) is actually a description of, well, rape from the point of view of the rapist.
In which case that twinge of guilt your hypothetical protagonist hypothetically feels is probably just the tiny part of his hypothetical self that’s still human reacting to the fact that he JUST (hypothetically) FUCKING RAPED SOMEONE.
MRAs and PUAs and manospherean assholes generally like to pretend that consent is some weird and mysterious thing, but it’s really not. Here’s a hint: if a women looks at you with fear in her eyes and pushes you away all while sitting in a position that makes sex difficult …. all that means NO.
The fact that Matlock — despite those twinges of guilt — still doesn’t regard this as the worst kind of “bad sex” (for the guy) but merely the second-worst adds a certain level of absurdity to the horror.
Given Roosh’s publication of this piece by Matlock, and the fact that he himself has already confessed to committing what would be considered date rape by American standards by having sex with at woman too inebriated to give consent, perhaps it’s time to stop referring to Roosh as a dating guru and to start referring to him as a date rape guru.
I don’t really have anything else to say.
Here, as brain bleach, are some cats with smaller versions of themselves:
Posted on May 25, 2013, in creepy, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, narcissism, playing the victim, PUA, rape, rape culture, rhymes with roosh, victim blaming and tagged misogyny, pickup artists, PUA, rape, rape culture. Bookmark the permalink. 851 Comments.
A variety of real triggers exist, and feminists tend to talk about a lot of them, so your point is weak.
Pec
You prove my point brilliantly.
Women’s breasts ARE much larger than they need to be in order to feed a child. They are mostly fat and are probably a liability while being chased by a tiger.
They DO help a women attract a strong man to protect her though.
It’s starting now. The amusement is I’m watching Sassafrass perform Ragnarok (at Balticon).
Ew..
Marie
I was talking about you. What is your motivation. You cannot say you are here because David MAKES you surely? Have you no free will?
@Marie, My estimate’s probably generous. I hope it’s sooner because I’m going to be off to do groceries and water the garden soon.
If you ask me, I don’t owe anyone a chance while I’m dating. If you’re not attractive to me (underdog) and nice and we share some interests, you might have a chance. If you’re attractive to me and nice and we share some interests, you’d probably have more of a chance. So what? I’d only want to date people I find attractive.
If it just teaches interaction skills, or w/e, I’d be fine with PUA. But it doesn’t. It says “here, do random “kino” touching to make people uncomfortable” or “women always say no as a shit test”. That IS creepy, and if you think it’s just “giving the underdog a chance” you are a freaking creepazoid who ignores people’s boundaries!
I just want the record to say that if black fedora said this seriously, it is the most hilarious thing ever.
Also, @ Radical Parrot: Still loving the troll to english translations!
That. Is not. What “PC”. Means.
Sweet nothings? WTF? What the heck does that mean? People spitting in my ear randomly would not calm me down.
Based on what kind of evidence, TrollBoy? How do you know the man isn’t CAUSING the problem?
Anyway, second not-done-reading comment being posted, to prevent a too long comment..
@the black fedora
I’m here to hang around the awesome regulars. And to poke trolls, when they show up. Funnily enough, I actually enjoy being here, instead of running a ‘scientific’ experiment.
Chappy-noir: I didn’t prove your point. You made up another story
Here, I’ll show you how it’s done.
1: assume a need for fatty deposits under the milk ducts.
2: look for other animals which have such a need
3: Assume there is a parallel.
So there is are animals which have such a need (Stellar’s Sea Cow, the manatee).
If humans were ever aquatic (a defensible proposition) then there would be a need, independent of male opinion, for breasts. There would also be variation in size.
All of it independent of dudes.
In short, your understanding is still lacking.
I have travelled far. Searching for Understanding, for Truth, and for Knowledge.
My travels have brought me into contact with many a thing, many a place and I have found answers to the questions I had. Answers to questions I never knew I had, too, and even, that most rare gift, I’ve found yet more questions to ask now.
But at the end of my journey, one thing still eludes me. One final goal. I do not yet understand this thing they call “Rage”, this frothing emotion that bubbles forth with viscera and vitriol. And until I do, my understanding will not be complete.
I must know Rage.
I must be Rage.
I must become… The HULK.
For only, when I am Rage, when I know in my heart of hearts and have been marked in my most sacred soul by the beast they call rage, will I understand Feminism. For rage is the gate way to emotion. And once I know the gate way, I will know the path.
And…
at the end of that path… so short now… I will finally find the answer to the question must burning, most vivid in my mind:
What does it mean… To feel?
Then the world will make sense to me. Then I will have what the Lion sought, a heart. A true, beating heart. A soul.
And I will be complete.
Marie
So you prove my point. You enjoy some indignation- yet you blame men for it at the same time.
@fibinachi
So glad I wasn’t drinking anything when I red your comment XD
Fib
Yes that is very close. Many feminists thing being in a constant strop is empowering. It actually means they are not in control of themselves.
@black fedora
Don’t make up shit, asshole. I told you why, you lept for some interpretation of how this could fit your massive confirmation bias. I don’t enjoy indignation. I enjoy mocking misogynists because it’s much more fun than being upset by them. and I enjoy the awesome regulars here, big part of why I stay, but you seemed to ignore that part.
Citation needed.
It’s really weird for a PUA to describe someone having a full-body fear response as ambiguous. Even in the case of kink, you’d need tons of prior arrangements or safewords and I suppose most people would verbally check-in anyway. The whole thing reads like a victim is resisting while terrified that overt resistance will provoke murderous violence.
Pec
Let us apply occams razor and compare humans with chimps and not manatees.
Wow Eurosabra said something that wasn’t creepy as fuck. I am kind of amazed.
Is “Pec” Fedora’s short thing for Pecunium? Because I keep reading it as plec…Argenti, you haz brainwashed me.
@augochlorella:
Mr hk doesn’t have a fedora but Mr K has two – am I successful? (They’re not black though.)
@Marie:
And let me tell you, it’s not easy to brainwash a zombie!
Marie
Yes it is always good to have ones opinions echoed back to them.
But only I have confirmation bias it seems.
@kittehs
::throws party:: :D
Actually, black fedora, the reason I say you have a confirmation bias is because no matter what someone says you ignore all parts that you can’t twist into matching your views. Just a tip, bub.
Oh, gosh, not another “women’s looks = man’s actions” shtick. Here’s an idea: a woman’s looks = a man’s looks in terms of dating. A woman being a manipulative ass = a man being a manipulative ass.
“center of the world”… ? There is something about the way this is described that seems skeevy to me, but I can’t put my finger on it…
Then Pecunium said
And that feels like why it was making me uncomfy.
Actually, you can tell they’re a manipulator WHEN THEY START TRYING TO MANIPULATE YOU.
Ah, I remember my attempts to lead a relationship.
I opened this funny aparatus attached to my head (woman can use those) and forced the muscles in it to move at the same time I exhaled and vibrated my vocal cords causing a sound similar to “do you want to go out with me?”
If you look at this remarkable chart, you’ll be able to see those muscles attached to the back of your eye, which should let you control the direction of your impolite stare. You’re welcome.
brb, still catching up on comments.
We all have this. It is part of the human condition and I try to be aware.
Well, you’re failing to be aware.
No weirder than a PUA describing “mild gaslighting” as something benign.
Pell: way to miss both the point, and the science.
There is a good case to compare humans to manatees. The more if you compare us to chimps as well.
Chimps have no sub-q fat deposits. Chimps have fur. Chimps don’t have fatty breasts.
Baby chimps can’t swim baby chimps can’t float.
The list goes on.
But more to the real point… that a perfectly plausible hypothesis, which completely invalidates yours does exist invalidates your absolute claim for why women have breasts.
Come on, Black Hat, peltdown, already! I can’t just put off stuff I need to do today to wait for this. You have 15 minutes. Dance, lemur!
Fedora, but I and several others have said things which you are choosing to ignore.
You respond to parts of our posts, but not all of it.
Several times this has been pointed out……
Fedora you want to believe Marie is bitter and unhappy. That is what you want to believe, but as a regular I don’t believe Marie is. You want to believe that you and I are in agreement; even as I point out that we are not.
You post as though everything you post is correct, but you give no sources (although you have been asked to several times) and continue to state that what you post is fact.
As far as breasts are concerned there is no agreement as to their purpose. Some scientists argue that handicap principle, some argue they are a sign of fertility ect ect. Saying something is fact when there is no scientific consensus makes me think you have no idea what you are talking about.
I think I’ve got to be making a cake now…I’ll try to check back during it though.
everyone, try to have fun with the troll. Or ignore him. Whichever.
I’d just like to point out that a woman who uses her breasts to convince a strong man to defend her from a tiger is indirectly breastfeeding that tiger.
Fade
You are missing the point. Nobody owes anyone a date but I think a shy person has every right to seek help and I do not think women should ridicule a man for having a minor mental health problem.
And just seconding melody’s whole comment up there. I’d qft, but it’s so big.
@Marie, I hope your cake is delicious! My boyfriend and I are going to pick up a pie for later tonight. :D
@2Dman
XD
@fedora
Lol cuz women aren’t people and don’t actually have their own mental health problems? Fucker.
Which is exactly what Fade advocates…not.
@Alex
And I hope your pie is delicious too! :D I hope I can make my dad’s look nice…he wanted all chocolate icing, which is a bigger pain to make, and also harder to play with. I can only make buttercream. :D
I have no idea why I have a smiley after the only being able to make buttercream icing chocolate. it was a typo.
You folks are making me crave French silk pie now. :{
I WANT IT
Hey, do any of you ladies have tips for cramps.
I’m currenty bedridden as a result of awful.
My tea (tension tamer in case anyone wants to try it) isn’t cutting it. Midol isn’t working and my heating pad is doing jack.
Ha. I’ve also stockpiled massive quantities of industrial-grade Handwavium.
The world is turning upside down.
Melody.
No. I do not believe that Marie is bitter or angry. I was slightly worried that I had upset her for real and told her I was a troll so that she could break off if she wished. She swears a lot but quite honestly I was unaffected by that.
As for sources..there is a time factor because there are more of you than me. In any case it would make no difference. You believe (I think) that men are basically not OK to one degree or another. This is something the culture feeds us. It is hard to fight it.
*yaawwwwwwnnnn*
Spoiler space: We’re here to laugh at people like you
Oh, gosh, Eurosabra’s back. Is he gonna go off of how chronic illness means it’s okay to try to deny a woman’s right to say no? It might seem like I’m focusing on this, but this feels like a semi-personal issue for me.
I will say your comment in this case was magically not- creepy somehow, but that doesn’t erase everything you have said.
Did you read how everyone else pointed out that “kino escalation” and acting like saying no is a challenge is the objections we have to the PUA game? If it actually taught shy men social skills, it would be fine.
@melody
:( Sorry about your cramps. Don’t have any good advice though. Normally all I do is lay down with a heating pad and try to wait them out. Do you take advil or any other pain medicine for cramps? I know my dad’s fiance has this pill especially for period cramps, but I don’t know what it’s called. ::shrugs::
What kind of cramps are they?
If they are stomach cramps, I suggest chamomile tea. I don’t know why, but it always makes me feel better.
@theblackfedora
I…do swear a lot. I am aware of this. And? Your point is?
Nope. I don’t think men are not “OK”. You’re just pulling that from your ass. Either that or you think because we oppose rape apologia we hate men, but if you think opposing rape apologia means hating men…well, you have a pretty damn* low opinion of men..
*omg! cussing! omg!
I usually do midol, but this is a partiularly rough day.
@fedora……
*facepalm*
Us not liking PUAs is now all men. Glad to know. Us not liking rapists is now all men.
I should start calling the men in my life and let them know that some guy on the internet thinks I don’t think they are ok.
@Aaliyah
The kind that make me think my insides are trying to crawl up my throat.
Seriously, I don’t think it has ever been this bad.
Melody
Well is it possible that a tendency to see evil intent in the targets of this blog might translate to men in your outside life? Switch on the TV and you see at least one rapist an hour- or a serial killer (always male).
Real life- not so much.
Most of the men targeted by this blog are simply a little socially inept. They are telling their personal truths because they are hurting and all of this pain would go if only someone would hear them- just once.
Hell.. if you are a feminist you have probably said worse things yourself yet I do not believe you are a danger to anyone.
Dude, most of the men targeted by this blog are spousing misogyny. Even if they are socially inept, that doesn’t make their misogyny okay.
Fedora you don’t think guys who think they should be able to force women to have abortions are a problem?
You don’t think men that perpetuate and sometimes admit to rape are a problem?
You don’t think men who think women owe him sex are a problem?
You and I have very different opinions of what is a problem.
Most rapists are male. And I’d love to see less female victims so…point not made. You also have plenty of men in positive roles (catching the rapists) and women tend to be cast as victims (some in good roles but not as many).
If you are a feminist, you have probably said worse things, which I won’t quote for some reason.
Yay, a new troll (I thought)! And then it became obvious that he was not new at all. Still, a few points.
1. Invisibility is a superpower. Can you walk into a jewelry store and steal things because none of the staff can see you, and neither can the security cameras? No? Then you’re not invisible.
2. Lots of sex (for either men or women) lessens empathy? What a sad, strange idea.
3. “In fact the woman always leads but she does so subtly. ” It’s particularly funny that he would bring this up, since one of the problems with PUA is that it teaches men to approach even when women are not giving them any signals of interest at all. It’s one of the reasons why their failure rate is so high.
4. Was it Steele who shortened people’s names in odd ways?
5. When Eurosabra is making more sense than you then you may have overdone your troll persona a bit.
Agreed. Which things have I said that are worse? Have a threatened to rape or kill anybody? No. Have a threatened to dox anybody? No. Have raped, killed or doxxed anybody? No. In fact I think I’ve been pretty civil through our entire interaction.
However, this is my life. I live it every day. I have to deal with things that you don’t. My examples about the attention we get earlier have happen to me. I take this seriously because these things effect me. This isn’t a scientific experiment for me.
oops….lost some of the blockquote.
I was trying to post Marie.
Fade. You have said things while in pain. So have I. Fortunately we did not write them down.
What I object to is the way people are quote mined and then seemingly willfully misinterpreted. This is why I find myself supporting guys like Roosh who probably lead many men up the garden path. He has made his life about the search for an impossible romantic ideal and yet he can never find her- because the search is the thing and not the finding.
He also espouses dangerous sex in third world countries and tells men this is nothing to worry about. All wrong and stupid BUT I will not have lies told to support the feminist notion that there is something fundamentally wrong with all men.
Possible? A lot of things are possible. Is that actually the case, though? Nope.
You are just terrible. Please go away.
Fuck off with your straw men.
Yay! I have trolled to 400 posts. Time to call it a day. Goodnight all!
Fade,
i don’t know why it would be a personal issue for you, unless you also feel that chronic illness means that your dating life is compromised such that *almost everyone* is privileged relative to you, that “No” is a show-stopper, a let-down, a bummer *AND* means that you’ll have to “take a breather” in your dating life sufficient that your other dating opportunities temporarily fade away as you gather strength and recover, since the other people who might have said “Yes” won’t wait for you. Really, I don’t see why anyone cares, since it’s been made sufficiently clear to me that I don’t have any power, social or discursive, and I encourage you to return the issue to the silence that other people have so diligently pressed on me.
Thank you.
Bye.
So if I said “women vote the wrong way” and acted like women shouldn’t have the right to vote, it’s okay because I’m in pain.
Newsflash: I have said some things while in pain (though not racist, sexist things). I did apologize afterwards, because you being in pain doesn’t absolve your words of consequences.
You inexplicably think that it’s okay for Roosh to post something from a man likes to have sex with women without their consent (what do you think “pushing away” or “eyes widen in fear” means?) The fact that you support someone who posts and encourages that behavior makes me sick.
Your abuse-apologia is showing. It does not matter if all the MRAs are magically in pain at the same time and keep expousing their misogyny due to their pain. Their actions still have consequences; their words have consequences, and they encourage abuse and rape verbally.
Blacky: When did “shy” = “minor mental health problem”?, and when did anyone here mock someone for being shy (as opposed to the question of them being, yanno, a rapist)?
You believe (I think)
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Well is it possible that a tendency to see women as things who are possessed of convenient backstories which makes raping them a noble sacrifice (since the dude won’t have quite the good time he might otherwise) is why we think you are about as worthwhile as that half a bottle of cheap beer people used for disposing of their cigarette butts.
Most of the men targeted by this blog are simply a little socially inept.
Socially inept, like guys who advocate “Rape Game”, or the subject of the OP who says rape isn’t quite the most boring sex he’s had.
Or the guys who think girls need to be hit. Or the guys who think that children should be left to starve, or that women should be forced to get abortions (or have children) if the dude says so.
Or the one’s who say women don’t deserve to vote. Or that any women who don’t, “save it for marriage,” are whores, and ought to be sent to brothels.
That sort of socially inept?
If that’s the case, I’d say they deserve to be targetted.
@ Aaliyah
What’s a French silk pie?
@ Melody
For cramps the thing that works for me when nothing else does is cramp bark. You can get it at health food stores in the herbal medicine section, as a strong decoction that you put a few drops of in water or tea. Works far better than Midol and similar meds in my case, and without any side effects. Is there anyone around who can run over to the store for you?
In terms of teas for cramps raspberry leaf is the best. I think Traditional Medicinals makes one, or you can just make your own with the loose leaf stuff. My local herbalist mixes it with mint leaves to make a tea that helps with both cramps and nausea.
Blacky: . All wrong and stupid BUT I will not have lies told to support the feminist notion that there is something fundamentally wrong with all men.
Instead you will tell lies about how feminists think there is something wrong with all men; and you will defend a guy who admits to committing rape (and advocates how to commit rape), as being maligned because quoting him is somehow unfair.
Seconding the French silk pie (raises spoon.)