Dating guru Alex Matlock: Sex with women who fear you and push you away might not be much fun
Protip: This does not mean “yes.”
So “dating” guru Roosh has a post up on his Return of Kings blog by another self-professed dating guru, Alex Matlock, who rates various types of “bad sex” according to the type of female partner who’s involved in them, including such charmingly named types as “The one that tries too much (aka The Disaster)” and “The one that doesn’t move (aka The Starfish or The Doll).”
I expected a good deal of standard-issue manosphere misogyny in Matlock’s list, but I honestly couldn’t make it past his description of what he regards as the second-worst type of female sex partner: “The one that’s scared (aka The Virgin).” Because what he’s describing doesn’t sound so much like “bad sex” as “date rape.”
[TRIGGER WARNING for what follows; emphasis mine.]
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This girl doesn’t necessarily have to be a virgin because she can still act the part many years after she’s popped that priceless cherry. She will usually look at you with fear in her eyes as if she has no idea about what’s going to happen. She gently pushes you away as if she’s not ready for the event and when it does happen she continues to act like it’s the first time. She usually sits in some extremely awkward positions that make you give up and just go missionary. This girl will eventually bust your nut but she’ll surely leave you with a sense of disappointment and/or guilt.
Uh, Mr. Matlock, I’m hoping for everyone’s sake that this is a hypothetical “humorous” scenario you’ve come up with for the sake of this article and not something you’ve been a part of in the actual real world on a regular basis, because, unless you’ve left out that portion of the hypothetical events in which the woman in question clearly and unequivocally consents to having sex with your hypothetical protagonist here, what you’ve just described as “bad sex” (for the hypothetical dude) is actually a description of, well, rape from the point of view of the rapist.
In which case that twinge of guilt your hypothetical protagonist hypothetically feels is probably just the tiny part of his hypothetical self that’s still human reacting to the fact that he JUST (hypothetically) FUCKING RAPED SOMEONE.
MRAs and PUAs and manospherean assholes generally like to pretend that consent is some weird and mysterious thing, but it’s really not. Here’s a hint: if a women looks at you with fear in her eyes and pushes you away all while sitting in a position that makes sex difficult …. all that means NO.
The fact that Matlock — despite those twinges of guilt — still doesn’t regard this as the worst kind of “bad sex” (for the guy) but merely the second-worst adds a certain level of absurdity to the horror.
Given Roosh’s publication of this piece by Matlock, and the fact that he himself has already confessed to committing what would be considered date rape by American standards by having sex with at woman too inebriated to give consent, perhaps it’s time to stop referring to Roosh as a dating guru and to start referring to him as a date rape guru.
I don’t really have anything else to say.
Here, as brain bleach, are some cats with smaller versions of themselves:
Posted on May 25, 2013, in creepy, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, narcissism, playing the victim, PUA, rape, rape culture, rhymes with roosh, victim blaming and tagged misogyny, pickup artists, PUA, rape, rape culture. Bookmark the permalink. 851 Comments.
Melody
I agreed that some (well a fair number) of PUA come across as a bit iffy. These guys have little following and there is a movement towards being the sort of person who simply goes around being the source of good feelings to everyone male or female. The sort of person you would hang out with even if they had two heads.
Then do you agree that the above post sounds like he raped her? Because if not you and I are not on the same page.
And uh…. then why are you still arguing with Marie?
Here, you haven’t come across as exactly a master of reading comprehension, so I will spell the joke out for you, fedoratheexplora.
This is what you wrote. Notice something missing?
Whoops.
Now get me my god-damned female GaoGaiGar. I have robots to fight.
Yeah, that thing about virgins and bars was mostly based on personal biases and prejudices I had back then (and to some extent until today), as an adult virgin who never goes to bars for any reason. Thanks for pointing that out.
(I also don’t like the term “virgin” as it trivializes human sexual experience, but was too lazy to write this disclaimer.)
Or are you going to stick to the pretty little story you whipped up?
@The black fedora
A BIT? the fuck
Not what the puas do…
Fedora I don’t think we agree because the idea that you and I are in agreement makes me feel nauseous. Which I don’t think agreement is suppose to feel like.
Fib,
I owe you a reply because I understand most of your last post. You think that because men are generally attracted to women shaped women this means that women are just pieces of meat? Or rather that this is what I think?
This is placing a moral speculation upon a fact of nature. Women with large breasts who display them tend to get looked at. We can say that this is because men are pigs (if you hate men) or that women are whores (if you hate women).
Neither help much- but men will continue to look at the breasts. Fact. This is just the way it is.
@fedora
You say fact, I say citation dearly needed.
.
As a woman with big breasts: nope nope nope. The only reason you think they are on display is because I can’t really take them off.
Do you know what a fact is? Also, guys, is fact the new ‘and that’s real’? Just saying something and putting fact at the end will make it so. And that’s real.
Well, now we know why he’s been so selective in his replies.
Women without large breasts are not shaped like women. Gotchya.
And if you don’t hate either–a shocking concept, I know–you can say that this is because in our culture female breasts are sexualized.
Blackhat: I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but you didn’t understand Fibinachi.
Fib
I think I know what you are getting at. You think that the female ‘role’ in courtship is passive because the man has to do all the funnies.
In fact the woman always leads but she does so subtly. There is always some glance, some subtle signal before the approach.
@black fedora
NO. If that were the case I would never get approached by men I have no interest in. Go fuck yourself.
Nep
Every now and again I am floored by feminist denial of reality. Yet I think you mostly believe it.
Male love for the female body is biological not cultural. How else would animals know what to do? Animals have no language.
Blackhat: More bad news on the understanding front.
@black fedora
if you want to claim it is a reality you’re going to need, oh yeah, a fucking citation. That’s not outdated. kthnxbye
Also, do gay men exist in your universe?
Want to hear a story? I’m a biology student. Towards the end of last semester I started reading quotations of stuff MRA’s said about biology and evolution to my friends in my biology classes and we would laugh and laugh and laugh…
And that’s real.
Are men more like chimps, bonobos, banana slugs, fruit bats, or something else? If biology trumps everything, what kind of biology is ruling men?
WHY DON’T FEMALE CHIMPS WEAR PUSH UP BRAS?
Gay men do exist obviously but unlike feminists I have no interest in talking about things of which I have no direct experience.
@cloudiah
Whatever kind of biology will prove fedora’s point ;) duh.
DO MALE BANANA SLUGS ONLY GO FOR FEMALE BANANA SLUGS WITH BIG BREASTS? Seems like that would be an evolutionary advantage, is all I’m saying.
Cloud
Male human biology. Why do you need to ask?
@black fedora
…What? You can’t be arsed to acknowledge that gay men exist? Because it is something you have no experience in (meeting gay men? Orly? Or being a gay man? But you are convinced women can ‘lead men’ in relationships by using ‘subtle signs’. Do you talk about things you don’t have experience in, or don’t you?
I would rather be trying to converse with a banana slug.
Fedora, I thought you were Going Your Own Way. Shouldn’t you not have any direct experience with most of this stuff?
Please call me clo.
augo
Actually a take down of bad evo psi would be a service to humanity. I think some scientifically trained person should do it. It would be far more useful than some of the tired old man bashing here.
Sorry, my last comment was directed at Fedora dude. The rest of you can continue calling me cloudiah.
clo
Be my guest.
@Pecunium:
I think I have a new favorite qoutation. Ah, thank you for making me giggle like a ditzy butterfly.
@The Black Fedora:
Thank you, yeah. We sort of understand each other. English isn’t my first language, so I understand that there might be some difficulties in expressing myself.
There’s some meaning loss and we didn’t quite get each other, but I feel we’re making progress. Come back next week, and we’ll really get started. My hourly rate is five quid.
Wire it to me over paypal, we’ll work it out. Same account we do Minter’s work over :)
@Thread:
This is amazing. Literally awe inspiring.
augo
Men going their own way can have friendships with women and even the occasional sexual encounter. The difference is that his worth as a human being is not determined by his popularity with the fair sex. He may therefore be fully authentic and devote himself to some higher purpose that serves humanity as a whole.
In fact, I rather think we ARE conversing with a banana slug wearing a little black hat.
This makes the conversation charming.
Not looking at breasts is as simple as…not looking at them.
Also, you have no understanding of objectification whatsoever. Whether looking at someone’s breasts is objectifying depends on the context and the behavior of the viewer. For instance, I happen to notice people’s breasts from time to time, but I don’t fucking stare at them or objectify the people who have them.
A banana slug with a “fully authentic” special pen that he goes peacocking with.
Adorable.
@Black fedora
All it requires is not having your worth determined by
womenthe “Fair” sex? DAng, who knew my dad was going his own way? My brother too.Yes! QFT. There is a big difference between thinking someone has nice breasts and objectifying them. Trollboy should learn this.
Fedora
I’m not throwing out “subtle signals” to most of the men that hit on me.
BSBSBSBSBSBSBS
Please don’t tell me what I do or don’t do. You are not me. You are not any of the ladies on this thread. You say you can’t speak for gay men because you don’t know. Then you shouldn’t be speaking for me or any of the other ladies on this thread because you don’t know.
Aai
I try to avoid being ‘caught’ too. Why can people not simply be honest and admit the eye goes where it goes? There is nothing disrespectful about admiring a good pair of breasts.
I assume that I’m “Nep”. Sparky, that’s waaaay too familiar a form of address from you.
Yeah, see there are plenty of cultures in which large breasts are not considered particularly attractive. In the 1920s, American women used flatteners to be more attractive. The nape of the neck is or was considered particularly sexual in Japan.
If staring at large breasts were biologically encoded, we would expect large breasts to be considered attractive in nearly every culture in nearly every time period. And then there’s the real world. But I’m sure, since you’re not very familiar with it, that you don’t often talk about the real world.
I have not had much contact with gay men. Plenty with women.
Dude, just look, move on with your life. You’re probably only going to get ‘caught’ if you’re staring, which is disrespectful.
Indeed, I believe most men I know are Going Their Own Way by this definition. This realization is so staggering that my brains would explode if Zombie Marie had not already eaten them.
Like making a fool of himself in some website comments section.
You call that a nickname? =S
Umm, you can still be an objectifying asshole even if you don’t get caught objectifying someone. And YET AGAIN you fail at reading comprehension.
However, you (I’m assuming) have not had any experience being a woman, muchless all women, so I’m going to give a big fucking bullshit that we lead men with our sUpEr sEcReT sIgNaLs. Also, you probably have had a good amount of contact with gay men. You just wouldn’t have know they are gay. Not all gay people are out to everyone they know.
Nom nom nom!
Nep,
You confuse fashion with attractiveness. The fashion industry promotes size 0 models but I do not know a single man who likes them. I suspect the same happened in the 20’s.
Actually I think you prove my point. Large breasts are generally considered attractive. Simply look at porn in Japan. Generally the women there are quite flat but Japanese porn is full of buxom ladies.
“Looking at naked pictures of” ≠ “contact with”. Just sayin’.
I have a credible source (my sister, lol) tell me that black fedora keeps coming back as a troll in this thread, though since I’m just catching up, here is his first comment, to see how much he’s changed his shtick (trolls love thinking people can’t go back and read what they just said)
A) if someone is unattractive, I don’t think acting like a PUA asshole will improve their chances.
B) I’d rather be ignored than harrassed; the only people who say the opposite are normally men who have never been harrassed and think of street harrassment as hot chicks they want to pay attention to them anyway saying nice stuff, not legit threatening stuff that actually can happen.
C) I can’t work out now due to chronic illness, but when I could it was always because (imagine this) I liked how it felt to be in shape, body wise, not because I wanted to pick up hot people.
You know, I agree, it is bad if your purpose in life is seeking approval from the opposite (or the same) sex, because you can never be guaranteed that people will give you their approval. There is nothing you can do to accomplish this goal, because people are *gasp* different, and no one owes you there approval just as you don’t owe anyone yours. (Exception being parent-child relationships, because you know, you can’t neglect your kids, so don’t act like “you must do this for me to approve of you, my child”. I’m talking about relationships between adults or friends that are generally equal in power)
The problem with MRAs, is that they whine about how women hate men and are nasty, babykilling, slutty, lazynotworking and yet stealingmensjobs at the same time feminazis. They’re entire shtick is either around how women hate men, and it’s awful, or how women are despicable, and it’s awful. They think we should be worshipping them on one hand and apologizing for existing on the other. If that’s not tying up your purpose into other people I don’t know what is.
anyway, this is kind of a comment from the past, because I have not caught up yet, but I don’t want to post one superlong comment.
@The Black Fedora,
Can you tell when women want you because their pupils dilate? Do lesbians have immature (clitoral) orgasms?
augo
Trolling is a noble calling.
Quick! there has been evidence against my argument! Let me ignore it! /shorter fedora.
@black fedora
I’ll bite. How?
I am not sure what you are getting at here.
@black fedora
Be more specific. Which comment? Who’s getting at?
Ah yes, the porn argument of biological attraction, wherein sometime around 1987 the human genome massively shifted and men became naturally attracted to women with hairless crotches.
Marie
I am trying to understand the feminist mentality. To do so I must understand what feminist call ‘triggers’
You are part of a scientific project.
Okay guys, I decided to LIGHTEN UP THE MOOD and be a bit off topic, but this is so funny. Me and husband for various reasons started reading again in a book he has called “Vita kränkta män” – “white violated men” in English. It’s by a Swedish journalist called Kawa Zolfagary, who’s an explicit feminist and looks very much non-European, meaning MRA:s and racists (and as we know, the two groups intersect heavily) give him loads of hate. He decided to counter with humour and started a Facebook page which is a bit like this blog although in Swedish – people send him various quotes from racists and MRA:s from around the web, a lot of it from other places at Facebook, and he publishes them on his FB page for lols. Eventually it became so popular that he gathered the best stuff in a book.
One of the best pieces, translated for your benefit and lols:
“Who the FUCK has come up with “zie” really!!! And now political parties write it in their party programs! This society can to go hell, idiots!!! Man/woman it’s that fucking simple! But if that’s not gonna exist we could just as well stop procreating Homo Sapiens on this planet when you don’t know what to bang anymore!! I’m gonna fucking bang a pig and call our offspring “zie-pig”! 50/50 pig human and show off my proud hybrid to the fucking idiot who came up with ZIE!”
Do you know anything about mental health issues? ‘Triggers’ are not things that feminists made up. Real people have them. How about you stop showing yourself to be a complete fool in this thread and actually read about psychological triggers (and, while you’re at it, stop being an asshole)?
@Nepenthe
I was thinking of bringing up a similar trend, but you beat me to it.
Triggers… You want to know what a trigger is?
“They are designed to prevent people who have an extremely strong and damaging emotional response (for example, post-traumatic flashbacks or urges to harm themselves) to certain subjects from encountering them unaware. Having these responses is called “being triggered”.”
tada Google is pretty simple.
Nep
Good point. Although this started much earlier in the Muslim world.
Pubic hair helps conception so it would seem a disadvantage. Having said this I like the old ways so maybe this is fashion again?
Oh, and I don’t think you understand the scientific method, either.
@black fedora
Go fuck yourself, dipshit. Though I’m guessing you know 0 about science.
Also, because I am bored: We put trigger warnings on things that are upsetting. If a rape victim sees a TW: rape, they can have time to prepare themselves before reading, or decide to skip. They’re just to give people a heads up. Normally when talking with people in meat space, there is a heads up before really stressful topic, just it’s considered common courtesy.
Blackhat: I’m not sure what you are getting at here
Truer words ye never spake.
Now, about those breasts. If biology caused all men to prefer large beasts there would be a lot fewer (if any) women with small breats.
Also it may be that the images in porn are a case of fashion than biology. Trufact a study just showed a WEAK correlation between misogyny and a preference for large breasts.
Any bets on how long until peltdown? The “pubic hair helps conception” comment makes me think it is imminent.
And me, having to go do errands. So unfair.
Aai
If you had read my post I was talking about what FEMINISTS call triggers which like most feminist things is unrelated to external reality.
They use it to talk about being in a state of virtuous and presumably enjoyable rage. Why else come to sites such as this one?
Why should a person seek out or manufacture rage? Understand this and I understand feminism.
@cloudiah, I’m betting two hours.
@theblack fedora
David says why in the faq:
@Alex
Two hours! I’ll probably have to be making my dad his birthday cake by then :(
So, if you personally liked small breasts then liking large breasts would be a fashion and not biology. Huh.
Well Sparky, let us know when your paper comes out in JAMA (Journal of Annoying MRA Assfax). I’m sure the many scientists here will enjoy reviewing your methodology.