Dating guru Alex Matlock: Sex with women who fear you and push you away might not be much fun
Protip: This does not mean “yes.”
So “dating” guru Roosh has a post up on his Return of Kings blog by another self-professed dating guru, Alex Matlock, who rates various types of “bad sex” according to the type of female partner who’s involved in them, including such charmingly named types as “The one that tries too much (aka The Disaster)” and “The one that doesn’t move (aka The Starfish or The Doll).”
I expected a good deal of standard-issue manosphere misogyny in Matlock’s list, but I honestly couldn’t make it past his description of what he regards as the second-worst type of female sex partner: “The one that’s scared (aka The Virgin).” Because what he’s describing doesn’t sound so much like “bad sex” as “date rape.”
[TRIGGER WARNING for what follows; emphasis mine.]
.
.
.
.
This girl doesn’t necessarily have to be a virgin because she can still act the part many years after she’s popped that priceless cherry. She will usually look at you with fear in her eyes as if she has no idea about what’s going to happen. She gently pushes you away as if she’s not ready for the event and when it does happen she continues to act like it’s the first time. She usually sits in some extremely awkward positions that make you give up and just go missionary. This girl will eventually bust your nut but she’ll surely leave you with a sense of disappointment and/or guilt.
Uh, Mr. Matlock, I’m hoping for everyone’s sake that this is a hypothetical “humorous” scenario you’ve come up with for the sake of this article and not something you’ve been a part of in the actual real world on a regular basis, because, unless you’ve left out that portion of the hypothetical events in which the woman in question clearly and unequivocally consents to having sex with your hypothetical protagonist here, what you’ve just described as “bad sex” (for the hypothetical dude) is actually a description of, well, rape from the point of view of the rapist.
In which case that twinge of guilt your hypothetical protagonist hypothetically feels is probably just the tiny part of his hypothetical self that’s still human reacting to the fact that he JUST (hypothetically) FUCKING RAPED SOMEONE.
MRAs and PUAs and manospherean assholes generally like to pretend that consent is some weird and mysterious thing, but it’s really not. Here’s a hint: if a women looks at you with fear in her eyes and pushes you away all while sitting in a position that makes sex difficult …. all that means NO.
The fact that Matlock — despite those twinges of guilt — still doesn’t regard this as the worst kind of “bad sex” (for the guy) but merely the second-worst adds a certain level of absurdity to the horror.
Given Roosh’s publication of this piece by Matlock, and the fact that he himself has already confessed to committing what would be considered date rape by American standards by having sex with at woman too inebriated to give consent, perhaps it’s time to stop referring to Roosh as a dating guru and to start referring to him as a date rape guru.
I don’t really have anything else to say.
Here, as brain bleach, are some cats with smaller versions of themselves:
Posted on May 25, 2013, in creepy, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, narcissism, playing the victim, PUA, rape, rape culture, rhymes with roosh, victim blaming and tagged misogyny, pickup artists, PUA, rape, rape culture. Bookmark the permalink. 851 Comments.
And clearly you do.
augochlorella: Mr. HK doesn’t own a fedora. Clearly, I have failed.
“This is also why I cannot get anyone to enter into a polite conversation with me.”
No it’s because you’re a disingenious, tedious, condescending twit spouting trite banalities whilst thinking himself clever.
Canuck_with_pluck, I knew that link was going to be Dimitri before i even clicked it.
@Fedora, clearly you have a deep understanding of politics and philosophy.
Dear Fedora, regarding your recent foray into the forum of hate which
you’ve nicely found time to designate and denigrate
I must post a little late, something to add to this debate:
Namely, my sincere attempt at being polite, mate. Now let’s take it away!
In your system set up to diss I find it amiss that you seem to miss
that the left of politics on the basic specutrm is not about relativist morals
did you pull that from your rectum?
Nor is the right entirely right based on some insight about divine mandated right
right?
because it just might be that differences accrue you won’t see in a different light.
But sure, I’ll bite.
I’m now a relativist moralist with no twist and no spine and no integrity, great set up, safely proceed to ignore my ranting as the derived headslum of a blinded fool with no ability to keep cool or play nice, because all I have is spite and malice like a malaise around me.
That’s what you’ve said, see?
However! It’s a bit of a sham. Relatvist and consequentalist and structuralist and fundamentalist differences in metaphysical constructions of the world is not what seperates left from right, all right?, it’s a much more base manner of personal proclivities and structuring of societies.
but that’s fine.
You’d rather have children starve on the streets and women beat because they’re unproductive dead meat, it’s neat, and if you think this is hyperbolic I must wax now relatively solid:
Morality, when formal, devours. And when you set down rules that works at all hours you’ll find it empowers not a sense of empathy and capacity for joy, to enjoy others, it gives you tools to perpetuate treason and deny people for an arbitary reason. Your social safety net becomes full of the holes of people you refuse to acknowledge, and simple acts carry the crushing burden of your overinflated sense of divine vitriolics.
Moralo-holics.
Punching is wrong, so don’t punch.
Stealing is wrong, so don’t steal.
Lying is wrong, so don’t lie.
And when I, lie, about to die, beneath the sky, starved from lack of bread because you’ve decided it’s better to keep people unfed, what will you have me do?
Die?
Okay, it’s no longer just me, now it’s the entire population of Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge years.
Please.
Fucking enlightment me as to how your absolutist morality will fix this problem, and no cops out like, “it won’t come to that in my perfect world”, it did in ours so now tell me how to fix it.
And once you’ve done that, maybe we can have a chit chat about all that riff riff about moralitistic relativity applied to pick up artistry and rape.
You heard it, folks: Fedorka supports the KKK
Manboobzers: here’s yet another PUA advocating rape
Fedorka: why are you scared of me GMOW?
Anyone with reading comprehension: *facepalm*
They are also challenged and disapproved of on this thread. I’m starting to seriously worry about your ability to understand what you read…
What makes you think you’re entitled to one?
@Arctic Ape
Why wouldn’t they?
@Fibinachi
Amazing, as always. Have you ever done poetry slam?
Shall we take a moment to assess The Black Fedoorknob’s priorities?
Stuff that is a Big Deal:
– an ugly comment that was criticized by ten (I counted) regular commenters almost immediately after it was posted
– that minority groups get to claim that they are oppressed
– that people on this site understand just how indifferent he is to women
Stuff that is Not a Big Deal:
– hate groups
– that one of his PUA idols just described date rape as a bad sex trope
– being a disingenuous asshat
No. I do not think so. Please point to where you think this happened.
You have simply found a guy that you consider lacking in social skills and who maybe says things that should be politely hidden and the decided to pick on him because of his foreign appearance. This is no more than school yard name calling done behind the safety of a computer screen.
Why choose his nose by the way? Do you think he is Jewish? He is not- and anti Semitic bigotry is no more acceptable when directed to the wrong target.
Feminism and the political left have become no more than a vehicle for the persecution of all who do not fit in. Man with big nose? Creep! Rapist!! Jewboy!!
Consider this. The equally Jewish and the equally ‘different’ Einstein had rather a lot to contribute. Fortunately we were not so PC while he was around or we may have lost the war.
Shame on you all. The conversation is over.
That was a beautiful parody of an anti-PC rant, Fedorka! *applauds*
(But seriously: I call Poe)
But I thought anyone the Southern Poverty Law Center calls out was worthy of support? Surely you knew that the SPLC watched anti-Semitic groups?
IKR? Like a guy who just came out in support of the Klan gets to lecture anyone else on racism.
Why is it so hard for you to believe that respecting women is not about seeking their approval? And that no one is asking you to seek their approval?
@hellkell
THIS.
I’m so confused. We were less politically correct during the World Wars and because of that we… won? So because we’re now more PC we will lose wars? Being PC means you casually disregard physic theories? I know Einstein was responsible for building the Chrono Device, but that was in Red Alert 1-2, and that’s not reality, that’s a game, but at least in that one, it makes sense.. but… I’m just so confused.
Just.
I mean.
If Einstein went back in time to kill Hitler before Hitler could rise to power, and this instead caused Soviet Russia to expand its borders massively, triggering The First Great War, how do we know that we’re PC enough to shame someone for their ethnicity? What amount of mammoth thanks will we need to conquer the British long range bombardment ships, and how will we manage to find the correct amount to put between that and shaming the soldiers that die for not being manly enough to suck on a flame thrower and live?
@Emilygoddess:
No, never. I just get… upset at trying to respond to trolls using normal language and words and they always seem so self righteously sanctimonious that rhyming is more fun. Maybe I should look into poetry slam’s? Could be fun, think I will. Any information on that you think I should know?
(Topic change away from Fedora! Smooth)
In completely unrelated news, I can’t tell if my cat is snoring or farting, but either way it’s adorable.
Not only are you unaware of the countless leftist moral objectivists out there, but you also fail to even understand what moral relativism actually is.
The conversation is over.
lol
No. No stick around. Keep going. Tell me about PC values, Einstein, The Chrono Device, Mother Russia’s Rise, Relativist Morals, The Grand Alliance and the Iranian Rad-Troopers. Tell me about Yuri’s plans. Tell me about omni-value morality.
This conversation is so far from over I can’t even begin to comprehend the end.
@Fedorka but I want to hear why you support the KKK!
@Fibinachi no clue about the poetry slam scene, but I have enjoyed some spoken-word videos/albums and your poem looked like it would work well aloud.
Aw, Black Asshat think he gets to dictate conversational terms. How adorable.
Fib, I have no knowledge of whatever conspiracy theory you are spouting.and so cannot comment on them. I am generally a conspiracy skeptic.
If you would like to continue with the sensation of pleasant outrage I have my own blog.
http://the-black-fedora.blogspot.co.uk/ and I am sure you will find much to trigger you here.
My point remains however. Both men and women are born with varying degrees of physical attractiveness. This is just the way things are.
People who lack skills with the opposite sex will want to attain them. There is nothing creepy in giving the underdog a fair chance. In fact teaching men to be attractive actually does women a favor!
I believe on a basic level that everyone deserves a chance to better themselves. If they are poor they deserve the chance to make some money by hard work. If they lack social skills they should learn them.
There is the tendency on the left to want to keep people down. Left wingers are generally wealthy and are quite happy the way things are. They do not realize that the poor becoming a little less poor will not make them any less wealthy themselves.
This is why I favor free markets. It gives the small guy a chance.
It is also why I favor self help movements. So what if a man is shy? Let him work at improving himself. He deserves a chance.
The left generally opposes self improvement for the same reason they oppose economic improvement. It seems to threaten their status as the cool crowd. In fact it simply makes the cool crowd larger.
Dude, you really don’t get either free markets or why PUA is bunk.
No one here is against self-improvement. PUA is not that.
I thought the conversation was over.
Me too, but they never can stick a flounce.
@jackie
You’re right, shaming is not the answer. And the problem isn’t him being ugly, it’s him being a fucking rapist.
QFT.
@Argenti Aertheri
My brother has eyes that don’t point the same direction. (Idk how to explain. Like reverse cross eyed? They look slightly out instead of in on each other). He’s tall though. I wonder what his future dating life would be like in mra land.
@the black fedora
Wrong. I’d so prefer no attention, and I haven’t even been bombarded by it a lot. But I would take no attention over creeps (fucking shaming language, mother fuckers! says mras) hitting on me when my mom’s trying to pay for our breakfast. And yes she was right there. And they guy (who was as old as her dad) still did it. And he fucking worked there. My only regret is I didn’t cuss his ass out.
Yeeeesssss!!!!! QFT. There are so many fucking reasons one could not want attention from men: not attracted to men, not interested, in relationship, wanting to fucking get food/ walk down the street without attention from men. God, just fucking living, and a large majority of people don’t want all that unwarranted attention trying to get through life.
I hope that made sense, tired + angry doesn’t work that well :/
@the black fedora
So you’re one of those guys who whines about how they’re going to go their own way but never actually leaves?
It’s…it’s not hard to believe. You are arguing with a strawperson here.
And I’m going to post this comment though I’m not caught up because I’m super distracted and don’t want to forget.
Time for another installation of Troll to English translations.
“You have simply found a guy that you consider lacking in social skills and who maybe says things that should be politely hidden” Translation: “Rape is just a hilarious misunderstanding and doesn’t really hurt anyone! God, I’m a monster.”
“[T]he[sic] [you] decided to pick on him because of his foreign appearance.” Translation: “I can’t read.”
“This is no more than school yard name calling done behind the safety of a computer screen.” Translation: “I can do projection, me.”
“Feminism and the political left have become no more than a vehicle for the persecution of all who do not fit in.” Translation: “I wanna be the minority! I don’t need your authority! Down with the moral majority, ’cause I wanna be the minority!”
“I am generally a conspiracy skeptic.” Translation: See previous entry.
“This is why I favor free markets. It gives the small guy a chance.” Translation: “Staying on topic and making sense is overrated anyway.”
“Left wingers are generally wealthy and are quite happy the way things are.” Translation: “Citation needed.”
“The conversation is over.” Translation: “LALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU LALALA”
Seriously, Asshat, you have been tried and found wanting. Your lack of critical thinking, reading comprehension skills, and basic human decency won’t earn you points with anyone. Go your own fucking way already.
@The Black Fedora:
Sorry, my bad. Sometimes I get confused about whether or whether not PC attitudes influence the Great War, but I think the chrono legionnaires are out to fix it at this moment anyway.
No harm, no foul.
—
How nice, though. The poor deserve the chance to make their situation better by hard work. The unattractive can learn how to be attractive! The outcast come home with the right set of skills. I mean, so long as they do it on their own time.
That’s very magnamonious of you. Very grand.
or
It’s almost like you like having opinions with thin veneers of amicibility spread over like butter across bread, hiding the sludge beneath.
Let’s politely hide the rape apologia. If I say out right I think leftists are spineless cowards with no integrity, someone might be upset.
@Black Fedora:
You’ve confused being polite with being a person. You appear to be mistaking serious for sanctimonious.
Please stop.
@the black fedora
…by one person who like practically everyone else has told to cut that shit out. Now tell me where the fuck people on Roosh’s blog are telling him to not be a fucking rapist. God you are a shitstain of humanity, and there are not enough legos for you to step on.
@emilygoddess
I’m a virgin and I’ve been in a bar :D with my dad… but it was fun, so whatevers. /random
@theblackfedora
Dude, like maybe you should address your comments at the one person who did this, or actually engage with what every single other fucking person on the thread is saying.
Oh my fuck you little shit the reason everyone is calling him a rapist is because in the fucking post he was admitting to being a rapist God I am so not in the mood for your shit today. Go sit on a cactus.
Wow…you sure told us bub. /sarcasm, cuz you probably need to be told.
Nobody cares about your blog.
See, skills with the ‘opposite’* sex are are exactly the same as skill with the same sex. Just treat people like human beings. I know this is hard for your hateful brain to understand.
*Non gender binary people, do you exist in fedoraverse?
Actually, plenty of poor people do work hard! And still are poor! Imagine that. Fuck, when my mom was unemployed, the people in this state offered her ten fucking dollars per month for a shtick that would take the time of a full time job. She declined, because fuck, ten fucking dollars. So yeah.
What strange alternate universe are you living in?
::Dies laughing:: I am now dead, black fedora. The irony has killed me. Everyone, anything else you see is now from Zombie Marie.
@Radical Parrot
Those were a c c u r a t e. (don’t want to copy paste your whole post cuz it’s so long, but yes too all of them.)
Also, still a zombie here, but remember, I used to be Marie! /random agitated-ness is bad for me in the morning.
Marie. It must be very confusing to be you. Roosh posts a link to a man who makes the reasonable observation that it is no fun sleeping with a woman who is in conflict with herself (not to say dangerous). He does not mention rape- only a woman who goes along with it but does not enter into the spirit. Maybe she wants to let go but cannot due to a religious upbringing. Who knows? It is not rape because consent was given but a gentleman will feel he has acted badly despite this because one part of her was not into it.
Now a woman agreeing to sex rape?
You post a series of quotes about Roosh being ugly and call this proof that he was NOT being body shamed- just as the first quote about a non rape was proof of rape.
You seem to view reality in a mirror.
I would guess from your post that you are about 23. Women under 20 complain that men are sex obsessed dogs. Some time between 25 and 30 they seem reasonably happy before deciding that men are castrated wimps who cannot take a strong woman between 30-40 upwards. Technically speaking women spend more time complaining about too little attention rather than too much.
One common reason women boast about too much male attention is to let everyone know they are gorgeous- especially if they are not.
Actually I am here to understand the feminist mentality. It fascinates me.
Radical parrot. Your post was content free so I can think of nothing to add. Thanks anyway.
Fib,
Actually I have no trouble at all saying that the left are spineless cowards without an atom of integrity. I have no idea why you thought that would be hard.
Oh and when I said the conversation was over I was referring to the implicit antisemitism of wanting to punch non Jews for having Semitic noses,
We are now discussing the moral sewer that the left has become.
@the black fedora
not so fun fact: you can confess to raping someone without using the word rape, just by describing what you did!
Also, not so fun fact: nowhere in the quoted expert was anything about consent said. Fucking read, you fucking stain of shit.
Because she did not agree to sex. God, fucking read.
…that did not happen. Like, do you have any reading comprehension at all?
What I posted:
Now, learn reading comprehension, or go the fuck away. Noone needs your repetitive shit today.
Dude. I’m not around 23. But keep pulling shit our of your ass, if you want. I’m under 20, and I don’t think men are sex obsessed dogs (wtf?)
Citation fucking needed, you stupid sack of shit. NO ONE here has said they wanted more attention from men,, only less. Go step on a lego and learn how to read. Pro tip: Actually listen to what women say instead of projecting your apologistic shit all over us. Second pro tip: Go hug a cactus because it’s the only company you deserve.
More of your fucking shit. Pro tip: Most women want to be acknowledged for shit that is not our looks. Second pro tip: Go fuck yourself.
Well, you are failing. Really, really failing. Pro tip: Women think like fucking humans, thanks. Now go shoe.
Citation needed.
@artic ape
I’m a virgin and I spent last night in a bar……
Ah , yes of course they are. Which is why they are pushing to solve income inequality, are pushing to have the federal min wage increased and have healthcare for all. Because they are happy with the ways things are.
@The Black Fedora:
Oh, my bad. Thanks for the correction.
I guess I was reading you wrong. I apologize, I shouldn’t have assumed something that wasn’t true about you.
So, anyway:
“She will gently push you away, she will look at you with fear in her eyes, she usually sits in extremely awkward positions, act like its a first time”.
You are right.
This isn’t actually utterly and entirely rape.
I mean, he didn’t write “I raped her”; so clearly it can’t be.
Why are we bothering being upset about that, I wonder…
How’s things going with the poitical correctness of the Iraq War as compared to the political correctness of World War 1 and 2? I think you might want to look into the example of Alan Turing, by the by. It’s fascinating.
Unless that was just argle blargle you’re not actually interested in replying to.
Ah, yes. Fear that is a sign of consent. And when a woman pushes you away she is really into it. Yep, doesn’t sound like rape at all.
I’m so glad to know that you think that is rape. Frankly, if I’m scared of a guy and pushing him a way it is because I DO NOT want to have sex with him. It isn’t because I’m thinking “take me you stud”.
Oh, and just FYI consent can be taken away. A person can change their mind. So, just in case you can’t read signals: if a woman says yes to sex, but later looks upset and wants to leave and you have sex with her (while she is trying to push you away) THAT IS RAPE. Just because a woman is okay with making out doesn’t mean she is consenting to sex. If a woman is scared and not cooperating with you agenda that does not mean you should have sex with her.
I don’t understanding why this is so hard to understand.
*I’m so glad to know that you don’t think that is rape.
Goodness, I’m tired, but that is no excuse for the amount of errors in my typing today.
No you’re not. You’re here to argue against straw (wo)men and talk about how great the KKK are.
Also, you still don’t get to dictate the terms of the conversation. It’s cute that you keep trying, though.
No. A “gentleman” in this situation, after having his partner push him away with a scared look, would stop having sex, and then use their words to ask their partner if they wanted to continue. Feeling guilty after continuing to have sex with someone who was visibly uncomfortable or terrified does not a gentleman make. In fact, guilt or no guilt, it’s very possible it makes you a rapist.
Oh, it’s my favorite troll trope – where the troll tells a bunch of women why they do/think things. I think it’s my favorite because the motivation is so up in the air. Is the troll trying to convince us that we think this way in spite of our, you know, real life experiences? Is the troll trying to pull a gotcha on us by revealing that he knows our super-secret-woman ways? Or is trolly trying to shame us by associating negative qualities with the act/perception in question (for example, associating vanity with complaining about sexual harassment). I do not know. All I know is that whatever their desired outcome, they’re not achieving it and watching them flop is very entertaining.
But augochlorella, mansplaining isn’t real!
Black Fedora: The appeal of game is that it gives men who are not that attractive some chance with women.
Bullshit.
It givs assholes who seem to be otherwise incapable of treating women as people with legitimate desirers of their own a set of tricks which will work to prey on some women who are vulnerable to those exploitative uses of social engineering.
These guys aren’t complaining about being “invisible” they are complaining that they women they want to fuck don’t want to fuck them.
There is a difference.
Plus anyone the SPLC hates must be worthy of support.
Yeah, the KKK and the American Nazi Party are paragons of humanity.
Why is it so hard to believe that a man should have a higher purpose in life than seeking the approval of women? I simply do not see why this notion should scare people!
If that’s what you think, why praise PUA? PUA is all about getting approval from women. It’s proving one’s worth by getting women to approve of one enough to have sex.
You aren’t much familiar with this logic stuff, are you?
Conservatives on the other hand believe morality is absolute.
Oh my… So when Bush said he had broken the law, and intended to keep breaking it, Conservatives were all up in arms about it, and thought he should be impeached?
When the IRS, under Bush, threatened to pull the tax-exempt status of “liberal” churches because they had, “political” sermons they were six kinds of furious at the abuse of power?
When Romney used Bain Capital’s ability to just declare bankruptcy and default on the debt; so that he could pocket several million dollars and leave the US taxpayer to foot the bill, Conservatives were all against that… it was so bad they couldn’t support him for office?
Don’t make me laugh.
If it is wrong to punch a woman in the face for having a nose you do not like then it is also not ok to do the same to a man.
Which is why everyone agreed with the person who said Roosh was ugly and deserved a kick in the nuts… oh! Wait, I got it backwards, everyone who replied to that said it morally wrong, and his looks were irrelevant.
Never Mind.
Are Jackie and Fedora the same person? It just seems sketchy to me that Jackie posts this ridiculous rant criticizing a rapist for not being pretty enough and then Fedora comes in proclaiming that said rant proves the moral inadequacy of feminists. Despite the fact that no one here agreed with Jackie’s rant in the first place.
New troll sees one person, who isn’t a Man Boobz regular, make a threat of violence and engage in body-shaming, and (a) no one agrees + (b) multiple people condemn. That = this blog endorses body-shaming and threats of violence.
Same troll sees a Roissy-endorsed blogger talk about how he’s had sex with so many women who were clearly unwilling partners that he has to make a fucking CATEGORY for it. That = hey, what a cool blog, Roissy is awesome, just like everyone else the SPLC targets, like white nationalists.
Yeah, I think we know everything we need to know about The Dim Fedora.
@pi male, interesting theory. Also, interesting username :-)
Black Fedora: The appeal of game is that it gives men who are not that attractive some chance with women.
Bullshit.
It gives assholes who seem to be otherwise incapable of treating women as people with legitimate desires of their own a set of tricks which will work to prey on some women who are vulnerable to those exploitative uses of social engineering.
These guys aren’t complaining about being “invisible” they are complaining that they women they want to fuck don’t want to fuck them.
There is a difference.
Plus anyone the SPLC hates must be worthy of support.
Yeah, the KKK and the American Nazi Party are paragons of humanity.
Why is it so hard to believe that a man should have a higher purpose in life than seeking the approval of women? I simply do not see why this notion should scare people!
If that’s what you think, why praise PUA? PUA is all about getting approval from women. It’s proving one’s worth by getting women to approve of one enough to have sex.
You aren’t much familiar with this logic stuff, are you?
Conservatives on the other hand believe morality is absolute.
Oh my… So when Bush said he had broken the law, and intended to keep breaking it, Conservatives were all up in arms about it, and thought he should be impeached?
When the IRS, under Bush, threatened to pull the tax-exempt status of “liberal” churches because they had, “political” sermons they were six kinds of furious at the abuse of power?
When Romney used Bain Capital’s ability to just declare bankruptcy and default on the debt; so that he could pocket several million dollars and leave the US taxpayer to foot the bill, Conservatives were all against that… it was so bad they couldn’t support him for office?
Don’t make me laugh.
If it is wrong to punch a woman in the face for having a nose you do not like then it is also not ok to do the same to a man.
Which is why everyone agreed with the person who said Roosh was ugly and deserved a kick in the nuts… oh! Wait, I got it backwards, everyone who replied to that said it morally wrong, and his looks were irrelevant.
Never Mind.
Also, but at least it was the occasion for one of Fibinachi’s awesome poetry pwnages!
And pi male, I think you may be onto something there. Hm…
Wait, I have a question relationship related. And I won’t even be a hystronic, sassy ass about it:
Who is the gentleman having sex with?
Seriously, I mean it, answer that question, who is that gentleman having sex with?
If the answer is: “The other person in the room he is naked with and currently inserting parts of his anatomy into”, riddle me this extra: Why on God’s Green Earth doesn’t he stop when we get to the “fear in their eyes, push away, lie there, awkward?”.
The guy is a gentlemen, you’ve written so, but you write it as if the person he is having sex with is himself. “He feels he has acted badly despite this because one part of her was not into it”, ie, because she didn’t enjoy the act, he feels guilty.
Why was there an act there to enjoy? Why was there a sexual intercourse event if one part of was not enjoying it? When he gets to the bit where he feels guilty, because he can see the other part doesn’t like it, tell me why he doesn’t stop. Tell me why they don’t communicate. Tell me why him getting off, ejaculating inside someone else, is more important than every other instance of their personal communication?
You know when I wrote I wasn’t going to be hystronically sassy? I lied.
By Carl Sagan’s Non Existent Beard, Fedora, Black – that is atrocious. That is terrible. That is shameful. You don’t have to feel ashamed, I am not trying to shame you, but a view of sex that incorporates the activities of two people and boil it down to “One gets off ,feels a little guilty because the other side didn’t enjoy it” is shameful. It’s mechanicisticall atrocious. It’s masturbation with the aid of a meat puppet.
If you ever find yourself writing the sentence “It is not rape because consent was given, but the gentleman will feel he ha acted badly despite this because one part of her was not into it” and not immediately appending “… so that’s why they didn’t have sex”, you are doing it wrong. You are thinking wrong things.
Consent was given in the same way I go and get a cup of coffee? Sure, it’s a bit stale now, but might as well finish the damn thing, right? Consent was given like I bought a fucking cheese at the local supermarket – sure, the salesman assured me it was great, but it turns out it wasn’t… and I ate it anyway, because why the fuck no. No other options exist.
Consent is not “Buyer beware”. It’s not “seller beware”. Consent is fucking mutual .
IF this gentleman DID NOT stop upon NOTICING that some part of his partner was not INTO THE ACT, why is he still a gentleman? And who is he having sex with?
Because it sure isn’t his willing partner, but it might be his giant ego.
Also, how did PC attitudes relate to Einstein and winning the war? Don’t cop out. Tell me.
And guess my age while you’re at it. And how much I hate men. And how many boyfriends I’ve had.
Dance monkey, dance. As the PUA’s put it, you’re our dancing monkey now.
@Asshat: You’re still not making any sense. I confess I like political conversations more than blatant rape apologia, but you sound an awful lot like you’ve lost your way with your talk of the modern world’s moral bankruptcy, the bliss of the free markets, and other imaginary stuff only self-obsessed, entitled jerks care about. Isn’t the Conservative Dinner with Whine discussion board somewhere else?
I cannot fathom these guys. To them, human rights are a zero-sum game, but the economy isn’t? Treating others as equals is utterly unreasonable, but food and shelter just magically arise from some vague “hard work”, like there aren’t limits to human capacity and natural resources, or the access to them?
@Zombie Marie: “What strange alternate universe are you living in?”
Who was it that made the comparison between a group of people (I believe it was New Earth creationists in that case, but applies equally well here) making their absurd claims about the way the world works and a person insisting that the small rock in their hand is actually an elephant? How can you address the arguments of such people? They are so incredibly, unbelievably wrong that they’ve stepped beyond human comprehension and entered some strange, chaotic world where physical laws work as they want them to work, and being right is not a matter of facts, but about the insistence on being right. Yet every normal person here on planet Earth can clearly see that the rock is not an elephant.
On the free market thing: 1) I’d quote you (Zombie Marie) for truth if I knew how to make those fancy blockquote thingies, 2) The “free” market is a silly thought eperiment that does not work in real life, and even then, success in the free market is not achieved by simply working hard, 3) Holy shit about that job offer to your mom. That’s awful, and a great example of how poor people cannot just “work hard and achieve success” in our economic system, where a key ingredient to acquiring wealth is already being pretty wealthy.
@Pecunium: Bravo.
Also: “PUA is all about getting approval from women. It’s proving one’s worth by getting women to approve of one enough to have sex.”
In my experience, at least some PUAs also use “the Game” to get approval from other men (usually other PUAs, but any man will do) by sleeping with many different women. So yeah, seems the whole thing is just about getting approval and attention.
Dude’s now advertising his blog on two thread’s here, because he can’t get anyone else to read it? Pathetic.
This conversation is over. ;-)
Oh oh! Guess for me too!
cloudiah, you have to tell us the conversation is over twice before it’s actually over.
Then you need to start posting again a few minutes later.
That’s how these things are done.
@Radical Parrot
Yeah :/ Luckily things have picked up now, and she has a job. We pretty much kept in an apartment when she didn’t have a job because her aunt was helping us pay for it, so it’d have been much, much harder without a support net (right phrase?). The good news is someone finally got around to suing those people…they were supposed to be the ones you apply to for help if you don’t have a job, and clearly failed, but they’re finally going to court. Don’t know much more cuz I only know what my mom told me, but glad that something happening there. State of Indiana, in case anyone is curious where this shit’s happening.
/rambling.
Also, you remembered I was a zombie! :D I tried to change my name, but it stuck my comment in moderation.
Also also, blockquotes are [blockquote] text [/blockquote] but you use < instead of [
Guess my age too. Oh, wise one.
And guess how many bf I’ve had.
After all, you did tell us that if we complain about male attention it must because of how unattractive we are. Because secretly we all want men to scream “masturbate” out their car windows at us. Or follow us around downtown and into coffee shops until the barista calls the police on them, or paw at us at the clubs, or call us ugly bitches when we decline their invitation to have them be out sugar daddies.
Black Fedora: My point remains however. Both men and women are born with varying degrees of physical attractiveness. This is just the way things are.
That wasn’t your point. Your point was that PUA was harmless, at worst, and probably good, because it keeps dudes with poor social skills from a fate worse than death (i.e. being invisible, or perhaps not getting laid).
People who lack skills with the opposite sex will want to attain them. There is nothing creepy in giving the underdog a fair chance. In fact teaching men to be attractive actually does women a favor!
If that’s all that Game was, I’d be behind it 100 percent. But it’s not, and you know it, because you praise the writing of Roosh.
I believe on a basic level that everyone deserves a chance to better themselves. If they are poor they deserve the chance to make some money by hard work. If they lack social skills they should learn them.
Good, we are in agreement.
I also believe that people are allowed to have their own agency. That no means no, and tricking people (or worse, forcing them) to do things they don’t really want do is a moral affront, to their humanity, and to society.
You (as a person who praises Roosh, and Game, and those the SPLC reveal as hate groups) don’t.
That’s why we say you are a moral pinhead, and an asshole, and a shitbird. It’s not your Conservativism, it’s your abusive nature.
. Maybe she wants to let go but cannot due to a religious upbringing. Who knows? It is not rape because consent was given but a gentleman will feel he has acted badly despite this because one part of her was not into it.
What…? You say, in your example, that she didn’t consent (“but cannot”, to which you attach a specious [fictional] justification). You aver consent was given (and not revoked), because…? Oh, right, the dude telling the story tells you so; while describing the encounter as her, “pushing him away, with fear in her eyes.”
This is “consent”? Remind me not to enter into any business arrangement with you.
We are now discussing the moral sewer that the left has become.
No. You are pretending to have that conversation. We are pointing out your inability to maintain a consistent moral compass (unless, perhaps, the compass is actually, “I should be allowed to do whatever I want, and you shouldn’t”).
A Subreddit that discusses Reddit itself is now discussing the tensions between allowing FREEZE PEACH and the existence of “hate groups” like MRAs on Reddit. Cue visits from angry douchcanoes, who blame everything on David:
http://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/1ezbjt/hate_groups_on_reddit_and_the_problem_of_leakage/ca665ap
Me too! BlackAsshat, guess my age and how many times I rode the Alpha Cock Carousel.
The conversation is dead. LONG LIVE THE ZOMBIE CONVERSATION!!!
Black Fedora: Guess my age. Guess how may boyfriends I’ve had.
Please. I need the lulz.
David Futrelle
Seriously? what is wrong with this guy?
I really hope there are not a lot of men out there that take what Alex Matlock, says as gospel, then we’re in deep trouble and arguably we do have a rape culture here in America.
Without being there it is impossible to know exactly what was going on.. but consider this. If a woman is on the bed, naked and feeling unsure. If she feels ‘dirty’ because good girls do not do that sort of thing but she clearly wants to because she has said she wanted to and has taken her clothes off.
What is the kindest thing to do?
Is is..
a) Get all PC on her- talk about intercourse being rape or some similar baloney and leave her feeling more confused and guilty than before.
or
b) Put your arm around her, murmur sweet nothings into her ear and wait for her to relax.
You seem to be saying that b) is rape. I just do not see it. She is afraid- yes. She is afraid of being judged. She is afraid she may not enjoy it or any number of other things but she is looking to the man to help her feel ok and safe.
So.. she relaxes and everything seems fine except that in the morning some of the old fears return. She wonders if she let herself down or if her friends would call her a slut if they knew.
The guy has done nothing wrong. He has waited and been sensitive. He has hopefully made her cum a few times and now he hopes she will see it as a liberating experience and the start of a great relationship. Remenber.. she was in full agreement. It was just that she had some inhibitions to overcome.
But.. he sees the old doubts return. He wonders if he has encouraged her to do something she will be ashamed of.
So he feels guilty. He has done all he could but the results were not what he hoped.
The article was simply advice to avoid a woman who has these conflicts. This is hard on women who need this help but probably wise as this culture tends to seem bad intent in men even when it is not there.
@The Black Fedora,
Hi Pell.
But yes, do guess our ages and how many sexual partners we’ve had before peltdown.
Greatest.
Cockblock.
Ever.
“Hey honey, what would you like to do tonight?”
“I’m not too keen on anything much, ‘fraid”
“Oh really?”
“Uh, darling, what’s that in your hand?”
“Nothing important. Anyway, take your shirt off”
“I’m not sure about this, darling, I’m a little worried actually…”
“No! You are in my room! You have already taken your shoes off. TIME TO BEAT IT!”
“What? Beat what?”
“YOU! With this hardcopy print out of the SCUM Manifesto! MWahahahah”
Smack, smack, smack, oh, uh, ah, lovely, hey can we… oh that’s goo– [Fibi gets all flustered, trails off]
Anyone else glad Fedora is Going His Own Way?
Fedora, stop spouting your rape apologist crap and guess my age, level of hatred for men, and how many boyfriends I’ve had.
Fedora, after you guess my age and cock carousel number, will you tell me what, specifically, you find “worth supporting” about the KKK?
Ooh, false dichotomy! The logical fallacy so blatant even I can identify it!
BlackAsshat forgot c.) talk to her like she’s a human being and find out what’s wrong. or d.) don’t have sex.
What a maroon.
@the black fedora
Fucking reading comprehension, bub. Just fucking ask her to make sure she’s okay with it rather than risk raping her!
That’s because B doesn’t involve consent, dumbass
No, he’s a rapist, which is wrong, you dumb asshole.
Except nowhere in the post did it say she was in agreement.
Also, please actually bother to the last comment I typed to you, k’thnx bye.