Dating guru Alex Matlock: Sex with women who fear you and push you away might not be much fun
Protip: This does not mean “yes.”
So “dating” guru Roosh has a post up on his Return of Kings blog by another self-professed dating guru, Alex Matlock, who rates various types of “bad sex” according to the type of female partner who’s involved in them, including such charmingly named types as “The one that tries too much (aka The Disaster)” and “The one that doesn’t move (aka The Starfish or The Doll).”
I expected a good deal of standard-issue manosphere misogyny in Matlock’s list, but I honestly couldn’t make it past his description of what he regards as the second-worst type of female sex partner: “The one that’s scared (aka The Virgin).” Because what he’s describing doesn’t sound so much like “bad sex” as “date rape.”
[TRIGGER WARNING for what follows; emphasis mine.]
.
.
.
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This girl doesn’t necessarily have to be a virgin because she can still act the part many years after she’s popped that priceless cherry. She will usually look at you with fear in her eyes as if she has no idea about what’s going to happen. She gently pushes you away as if she’s not ready for the event and when it does happen she continues to act like it’s the first time. She usually sits in some extremely awkward positions that make you give up and just go missionary. This girl will eventually bust your nut but she’ll surely leave you with a sense of disappointment and/or guilt.
Uh, Mr. Matlock, I’m hoping for everyone’s sake that this is a hypothetical “humorous” scenario you’ve come up with for the sake of this article and not something you’ve been a part of in the actual real world on a regular basis, because, unless you’ve left out that portion of the hypothetical events in which the woman in question clearly and unequivocally consents to having sex with your hypothetical protagonist here, what you’ve just described as “bad sex” (for the hypothetical dude) is actually a description of, well, rape from the point of view of the rapist.
In which case that twinge of guilt your hypothetical protagonist hypothetically feels is probably just the tiny part of his hypothetical self that’s still human reacting to the fact that he JUST (hypothetically) FUCKING RAPED SOMEONE.
MRAs and PUAs and manospherean assholes generally like to pretend that consent is some weird and mysterious thing, but it’s really not. Here’s a hint: if a women looks at you with fear in her eyes and pushes you away all while sitting in a position that makes sex difficult …. all that means NO.
The fact that Matlock — despite those twinges of guilt — still doesn’t regard this as the worst kind of “bad sex” (for the guy) but merely the second-worst adds a certain level of absurdity to the horror.
Given Roosh’s publication of this piece by Matlock, and the fact that he himself has already confessed to committing what would be considered date rape by American standards by having sex with at woman too inebriated to give consent, perhaps it’s time to stop referring to Roosh as a dating guru and to start referring to him as a date rape guru.
I don’t really have anything else to say.
Here, as brain bleach, are some cats with smaller versions of themselves:
Posted on May 25, 2013, in creepy, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, narcissism, playing the victim, PUA, rape, rape culture, rhymes with roosh, victim blaming and tagged misogyny, pickup artists, PUA, rape, rape culture. Bookmark the permalink. 851 Comments.
To be fair, I’ve seen similar ads to what Snore is talking about, but as has already been mentioned, this site contains certain key words, and that also helps determine what ads you see.
I read the warning. I knew there would be upsetting things here. I was stupid and honestly thought I could take it. I was wrong. If anybody wants me, I’ll be in the my room, crying. No, not metaphorically speaking. Actually,literally crying. I hate the world so much. Except for kitties. I want a kitty.
Maybe I’m just cynical, because my response to this was “thank you, Mr. Matlock, for making our case for us”.
@Radical Parrot
All the jedi hugs if you want them :(
@kittiwantsavatars, CATTY WITH A RATTY!
But yeah, I’m done with her. I can argue with a person who thinks that’s not rape, and I have many a time, but once said person starts claiming that people who identify their experience as rape are the same as people who lie about something that never happened…I just can’t anymore because there’s nothing at that point that will convince them. Ultimately, she just didn’t want to accept that a book she enjoyed used rape as a romantic element. It was better to her to say that victims of the sort of rape mentioned earlier aren’t actually victims. I can’t deal with that amount of selfishness.
@Radical Parrot,
All the hugs you want. :(
And this is Kittiwantsavatars, I normally post under Marie (what I should be doing right now I hope) but for some reason got the wrong username and I so didn’t notice until Alex called me by it. ::blushes::
Ugh. >:/ You’re right, it’s totally selfish.
Par for the motherfucking course. Asshole MRA has no defense for the shit being spewed by his ilk, so he derails the comment thread with nonsense to avoid the discussion.
I hope you’re feeling better now, Radical Parrot. =[
More brain bleach!
Kitty and Sheltie:
Little cuddly kitties:
Dog and squirrel:
Bear and cub:
At this point I honestly don’t know why someone doesn’t just kick the absolute fucking shit out of Doosh B? -smash that big ugly fucking nose right down to size.
Also, I realize body shaming may not be the answer, but has anyone not noticed that Doosh B is EXTREMELY UGLY! Seriously people, why don’t we say what is obvious? Doosh’s level of physical attractiveness, to use his own failed-ugly-loser lexicon, is at very best about a 3. So Doosh B, if you read this please understand, you are BUTT UGLY! Your nose is huge, your hair and man fur (holy mega body hair) are course and wiry (just the way Shakespeare describes in “Nothing Like the Sun”), you have a fucking uni-brow, your face is unsymmetrical, one of your eyes is actually noticeably lower than the other, your huge mouth is crooked, and so are your teeth.
Do you get it Doosh B? The vast majority of women and men would never widely accept you as being attractive – in fact just being average is even out of the question for you…face it my butt-ugly-heinz 57-looking-monkey man-shit stain you are HIDEOUSLY FUCKING UGLY!
I can only imagine how fugly your parents must be.
So Doosh, enjoy living life as a 3 (on your best day). By the way, it’s obvious that the beard is a last ditch effort to attempt to hide your disgusting, deformed face. Not working buddy…not working at all… And good on the women of Toronto for shutting your gruesome, deformed, fugly ass right the fuck out!
Honestly, it does not matter what Roosh looks like, he advocated rape in the past and implicitly by posting this garbage nightmare of rape apology. That alone makes him horrifying, not his looks, which are completely ordinary.
You don’t appear to have realized any such thing. Frankly, if the first thing you want to criticize about a blatant rape advocate is how you don’t find them attractive, your priorities are fucked.
RE: Kittehserf
I just thought I’d tell you, I’ve been doing another writeathon in honor of our temporary return to appropriately housed humanity, and I just made a prompt that is in part a continuation of ‘Cat’s Eye View!’
I love my writeathon prompters. They always give me the best stuff.
RE: Jackie
You’re a jerk. Knock it off.
Also, if he were indeed super handsome, then what? Would that make rape advocacy something to be desired? No, it would still be horrifying and gross.
Roosh, and his low rent wannabe Roosh contributor, are both horrifying, not for their looks, but for their advocacy of raping people.
Jackie, you kind of majorly missed the point. The fact that mras constantly use a rating of attractiveness as a line to the level of respect a woman should receive is why we can’t ever fall into that hole.
And men with lazy eyes should be spat on, right?
(Yes I’m extra cynical today, I blame insomnia and way too little sleep)
Thanks, everyone. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: You people are awesome. I’m fine now, if a bit drunk (I seem to be drunk a lot these days, ain’t I?). Here’s my contribution to the brain bleach of adorable. It might have been shown before, but I don’t care; it reminds me of the only two pets I ever had, a small kitten and an African pygmy hedgehog. I only wish they had had the chance to get to know each other. They would have been the best of friends.
I also love the Toy Story cover song.
Re : Snore’s comment
I was under the impression that the add content has nothing to do with the owner of the blog in question and that their content was tailored to the habits of the user. Do you remember that MRA who came in here trolling a while ago and complained about all the ads for porn sites? I think we have the same syndrome here.
Gosh, that rapist isn’t handsome at all…behold my awesome sense of priorities!
Jackie, you’re an idiot.
“The experience of being raped will probably scar me for life, but at least he looked like Ryan Gosling, so I decided not to report him.”
Said no rape victim ever.
What… the…. I just… I mean… I…
Ooooh, cute kitties and a hedgehog. Yay.
Yep, bob got it in one. :-) I always fight against sexual harassment unless the guy is cute or rich (says fantasy MRA woman).
His whole Rape and Manipulation for Dummies schtick would be totally OK if not for his hideous Caliban-like visage! Because there’s nothing wrong with being a horrible person as long as you have a pretty nose.
the furrinati at work:
RE: Bob Goblin
Pretty much. Though it bothers how many people seem to think that this is actually how it works. Like if you’re pretty enough or rich enough, you can’t be a rapist.
@Jackie: Yeah, while I definitely understand how angry-making these assholes can be, calling them ugly is stooping to their level of immaturity.
I think Roosh and his ilk are the scum of the Earth, but there are much better things to call him out on than his (and his parents?) looks.
Also, saying they should be “smashed in the nose” or have the shit kicked out of them, even in jest, is not okay. Violent rhetoric is their thing, not ours.
And in any case, who needs punching? I’d much rather see all the puas, mras, mgtows, rape apologists and assorted manosphere jackasses shipped off to an island cut off from the rest of the world. They’d have enough food, water, clothing, etc. to last a lifetime, but no internet, no way of getting off the island and they’d have to spend the rest of their lives stuck living with other whiny, bitter manosphere dudes. Cruel and unusual punishment, I know.
brain bleach
https://fbexternal-a.akamaihd.net/safe_image.php?d=AQAEPMTXTNyDsdFX&url=https%3A%2F%2Fvthumb.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhvthumb-prn1%2Fs526x395%2F158885_10200189951738352_10200189940018059_11643_938_b.jpg&jq=100
brain bleach (take two)
take three
take 4
aaargh! I finally figure out how to do blockquotes and now I can’t post videos?
try again
http://theberry.com/2011/04/12/daily-awww-cat-and-dolphins-playing-together-video/
ok. I give up, my brain is fried. well that last link will take you to the video, where after the !@#$%ing commercial, you can watch a cat interact with a dolphin. very cute.
Re: what Bob Goblin said — so my rapist ex #1 and rapist ex #2…implication here being, obviously, that I found them datable in the first place. Because hello logic land! Rape isn’t about ability to find consensual sex partners!
So, in recent news from my sometimes idiotic home state — prosecution takes a trip into idiot land, ends up with a court ruling that the mentally handicapped rape victim, incapable of vocalizing lack of consent, could’ve bitten or scratched and lack of evidence of that means NOT RAPE!
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/10/03/947981/court-requires-disabled-rape-victim-to-prove-she-fought-back-calls-for-evidence-of-biting-kicking-scratching/?mobile=wt
And it is prosecutorial idiocy, not the law itself, see the footnote, it saying “mental deficient” aside, CT law specifically says it was de facto // statutory rape. I haz an angry.
Sorry, not recent, just recent to me. I apparently also haz a dumb.
Gaah! It’s like that idiot in the other thread who went “I don’t wanna stigmatize people with mental illness, but I totally think mental illness and assholery is the same thing, and MRA:s are mentally ill”.
The general pattern being “I don’t wanna say X, BUT XXXXXXXXXXXXX”.
No, body shaming isn’t the answer. It’s wrong in itself. Plus (if someone has trouble getting why body shaming is wrong in itself, maybe this will help) there might be some perfectly decent people who happen to look a lot like Roosh reading this – anyone shaming Roosh for looks are shaming them too.
@ Argenti Aertheri
Holy shit. That article is sickening.
@LBT – “I just thought I’d tell you, I’ve been doing another writeathon in honor of our temporary return to appropriately housed humanity, and I just made a prompt that is in part a continuation of ‘Cat’s Eye View!’”
Whoot! ::preens::
Kitties and hedgehogs! Kitties and dolphins! Laughing furrinati!
::swoons::
Kitteh and LBT — this week’s PostSecret is relevant!
Actually, that’s a cat, which means it’s always relevant.
augochlorella — yeah, it’s beyond bad, what really gets me is I understand exactly how that ruling happened. That wording is part of why I never pressed charges against rapist ex #1, I wasn’t the level of completely and utterly incapable of resisting that wording requires (just too drunk to form real words or stand…I too could’ve bitten or scratched, but…reasons…) And all they had to do was use section 2 instead of 3. There’s a dissenting opinion, one of the CT Supreme Court justices thinks the ruling that it wasn’t rape is wrong — that she was, in fact, incapable of consent by legal statute. But they went with 3 instead of 2 because the defendant was challenging whether it happened at all so they used her ability to communicate what happened to say that yes, it happened…and screwed her over with it.
If you can tolerate 10~ pages of legalese, with some graphic details (actually, not as bad as the shit MRAs say), the last link on that page has the dissenting opinion. If nothing else I’d give it a read as an attempt to restore some faith in humanity.
And now I’m going to bed, because I have enough FEELS already from rambling about Memorial Day to pecunium. G’night guys!
BWAahahahahahaha love that picture, Argenti!
Not brain bleach but an I haz success: completed cable-pattern slouch cap. (Only learned how to do cable yesterday.)
Uhhh, yeah, seconding everyone here re: Jackie’s comment. Body-shaming and threats of violence are not cool, not even if it’s directed to someone like Roosh.
… Fifty Shades. The only good thing coming out of that book (for me at least) is a Hungarian meme.
OK. Explanation. The translator went memetic because he not only made some “questionable translation choices” (Like: Kings of Leon -> Lion King) but also pretty arrogantly denied making any mistakes. So the Hungarian interwebs made him the patron saint of bad translations. There is even an image macro of him floating around (named “Tótisz” after him), but because it’s naturally bilingual probably not that interesting.
Would a dodgy translation of Fifty Shades of Puke would at least have some unintentional laughs in it? It’s like the English version is only good for the hilarious take-downs and rubbishing it’s received. The thing itself is just … eurgh, words fail.
The appeal of game is that it gives men who are not that attractive some chance with women. This is criticism of Roosh for his looks will not help. The uglier a PUA is the more credible he is. The guy writes brilliantly at times- a sort of modern day Tropic of Cancer.
Many women get too much attention from men but they would find getting no attention even worse. Imagine complete invisibility. Many men decide to do something about this by hitting the gym and improving their social skills. I say well done.
I am too lazy myself.. but well done to those who make the effort.
“Imagine complete invisibility” – I get that or unwanted attention, far more the former than the latter, and I prefer it. Believe it or not, being a woman (or read as a woman) does not mean you want any attention from men at all.
The matter of someone hitting the gym or changing their clothing style or whatever is miles away from the whole PUA business. Sure, they probably recommend that, but PUA is about predation, manipulation, and outright rape, as shown in this article. That’s got fuck-all to do with improving one’s social skills. Your much-admired Roosh is happy to talk about “bareback persistence” and the joys of putting a guilt trip onto a woman if he can’t orgasm (I think it was him and not Roissy, though those two are cut from the same cloth). These men are promoting abuse. They’re shitstains, no more or less.
Well, the Hungarian blog called Leiter Jakab* collected 6 blogposts worth of facepalm inducing translation errors before giving up. They weren’t even halfway through the first book.
http://leiterjakab.blog.hu/tags/a_sz%C3%BCrke_%C3%B6tven_%C3%A1rnyalata Link is in Hungarian (Captain Obvious)
* It collects bad translations to mock or stare at them in confusion… it’s also huge.
Wait, new troll is literally called “The Black Fedora”?
This is too easy.
I can’t understand this idea of not being put off of the idea of raping people because it’s wrong and hurts someone, but because of how it effects you. MRA’s are really just men who were never taught empathy. It’s now not just only not raping because they’ll go to jail, but because it doesn’t make their dick feel that good. They really are the worst people.
I like Roosh, not because I think him the greatest gift to womankind or even because I envy his relatively modest achievements with women. It is because it is pure escapism of reading him.
Plus anyone the SPLC hates must be worthy of support.
If you’re going to provoke a reaction, @Blackfingernail, you need to do better than vague statements on your taste in fiction. /trolling101
So, one thing I took out of Jackie’s comment was that Roosh is a Torontonian? Is that correct? He’s not the same person as this guy,
(I hope that linked ok–my first time adding a link into a blog comment!).
*ok, it linked ok, but some stuff was cut off. I meant “…not the same as this guy, is he?”
I’m envisioning an evil hat lurking somewhere and typing on a laptop, just waiting for its next victim to innocently pick it up and put it on. Once the wearer dons the hat, the hat starts leaking mind control fluid from its brim in an attempt to get the victim to believe ridiculous things, like rape is okay and there’s such a thing called “negging”. The hat derives pure enjoyment from creating chaos, hoping that the victim will be awash in constant misery, so that the hat can retain its evil powers be made even stronger.
Once the hat has transformed the personality of its victim, it moves on to the next one. The victim is left with an angry and entitled attitude that will never recover from the hat’s evil influence.
If only this were true, so I can have a little more faith in humanity…
“The guy writes brilliantly at times- a sort of modern day Tropic of Cancer.”
All I can say is that it’s clear from this that all you’ve *ever* read of sex writing is Roissy and Tropic of Cancer.
I am not a PUA I am a MGHOW.
This does not mean that I turn my back on the self improvement aspects of game. They are highly valuable and I use them to improve my life rather than live up to some fantasy ideal of what a man should be to get women.
Why is it so hard to believe that a man should have a higher purpose in life than seeking the approval of women? I simply do not see why this notion should scare people!
MollyRen- you are probably right. Men usually prefer porn with pictures.
@sporklift https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6993144576/h0B92A864/
Black Fedora: You do realize that one of the words in MGTOW is GOING, right? So go, no one here really cares.
Right now you sound like a toddler threatening to run away if the women don’t give you what you want.
For the record then, The Black Fedora believes the one thousand and seven active hate groups that the Southern Poverty Law Center watches are super neato. Fedora here is down with them neo-nazis, white supremacists, racist skinheads, anti-gay hate groups, radical christian identity groups – you name it. The recent violence and conspiracies led by members of these hate groups – worthy of support, says our friend Fedora.
You see, The Black Fedorkadork would be concerned about the damage these hate groups cause or that a PUA just wrote an article describing rape as bad sex (for him, of course), but he’s got a more important cause to worry about.
You see, there are men out there who have trouble getting laid.
The Black Fedora – a truly stellar example of a human being. I would applaud him, but I’m too busy throwing up.
The first time I ever heard of PUAs (called “game guys” around here) was an interview in some mainstream magazine article years ago. It didn’t seem rapey or super sexist and I basically thought: “well I guess that’s a feasible dating strategy for some people, certainly not for me”.
However, I was badly puzzled when the artist in question stated his main ethical guideline as “do not mess with virgins”. How is virginity relevant to anything? Do many virgin women hang out in bars in the first place? And how can you tell them apart, do you ask in the casual chat phase?
Now I’m having a rather unpleasant lightbulb moment. If this particular PUA was indeed using “virgin” as a euphemism for “couldn’t fuck her without crossing into legally prosecutable rape”, that would tell oodles about his almost-human strain of ethical thought.
hellkell. actually it is the reverse of what you say. I do not need to run away or to come closer because I have achieved indifference.
You, on the other hand sense a loss of power.
Then why are you here again?
Loss of power over what? Some dude who doesn’t want to be with women? I’m not sure why I should care.
Now hellkell, if I remember correctly you are happily married, but are you happily married to a man with a fedora?
No doubt this is the loss of power The Black Federp is referring to.
It is all about morality really. The political left believe morality to be relative- or to put it another way- different rules apply to us.
The fact that they claim themselves to be oppressed therefore gives them freedom to behave as they do- threats of violence, body shaming (threatening to punch a man in the face because his nose is too large ext). All of these things are found on this thread.
Conservatives on the other hand believe morality is absolute. If it is wrong to punch a woman in the face for having a nose you do not like then it is also not ok to do the same to a man.
This is what every disagreement on this thread boils down to. Nothing else.
This is also why I cannot get anyone to enter into a polite conversation with me. You know these things about yourselves and will not look in the mirror.
I pity you. I really do.
“Why is it so hard to believe that a man should have a higher purpose in life than seeking the approval of women? I simply do not see why this notion should scare people!”
It doesn’t, and I don’t think you’ll find many here think so. Putting on fake fronts and twisting yourself ever which way because you think it’ll earn you some kind of points – or make you capable of manipulating people better – is pathetic. People should be true to themselves and have some goddamn integrity. As long as you don’t interpret “true to yourself” as = “raging arsehole with no respect for others” of course.
I should add: Quite possibly he was just using “virgin” as a code for “she technically consented but didn’t really want it”. Even then his language would normalize rape and support various rape myths.
Black Fedora, can you read? The poster who said that Roosh should be punched and was ugly was roundly criticized.
You’re not here for polite conversation, and FYI, just because you say your awful shit nicely, it doesn’t make it less awful.
Take your faux pity and shove it, you disingenuous nitiwit.