Dating guru Alex Matlock: Sex with women who fear you and push you away might not be much fun
Protip: This does not mean “yes.”
So “dating” guru Roosh has a post up on his Return of Kings blog by another self-professed dating guru, Alex Matlock, who rates various types of “bad sex” according to the type of female partner who’s involved in them, including such charmingly named types as “The one that tries too much (aka The Disaster)” and “The one that doesn’t move (aka The Starfish or The Doll).”
I expected a good deal of standard-issue manosphere misogyny in Matlock’s list, but I honestly couldn’t make it past his description of what he regards as the second-worst type of female sex partner: “The one that’s scared (aka The Virgin).” Because what he’s describing doesn’t sound so much like “bad sex” as “date rape.”
[TRIGGER WARNING for what follows; emphasis mine.]
.
.
.
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This girl doesn’t necessarily have to be a virgin because she can still act the part many years after she’s popped that priceless cherry. She will usually look at you with fear in her eyes as if she has no idea about what’s going to happen. She gently pushes you away as if she’s not ready for the event and when it does happen she continues to act like it’s the first time. She usually sits in some extremely awkward positions that make you give up and just go missionary. This girl will eventually bust your nut but she’ll surely leave you with a sense of disappointment and/or guilt.
Uh, Mr. Matlock, I’m hoping for everyone’s sake that this is a hypothetical “humorous” scenario you’ve come up with for the sake of this article and not something you’ve been a part of in the actual real world on a regular basis, because, unless you’ve left out that portion of the hypothetical events in which the woman in question clearly and unequivocally consents to having sex with your hypothetical protagonist here, what you’ve just described as “bad sex” (for the hypothetical dude) is actually a description of, well, rape from the point of view of the rapist.
In which case that twinge of guilt your hypothetical protagonist hypothetically feels is probably just the tiny part of his hypothetical self that’s still human reacting to the fact that he JUST (hypothetically) FUCKING RAPED SOMEONE.
MRAs and PUAs and manospherean assholes generally like to pretend that consent is some weird and mysterious thing, but it’s really not. Here’s a hint: if a women looks at you with fear in her eyes and pushes you away all while sitting in a position that makes sex difficult …. all that means NO.
The fact that Matlock — despite those twinges of guilt — still doesn’t regard this as the worst kind of “bad sex” (for the guy) but merely the second-worst adds a certain level of absurdity to the horror.
Given Roosh’s publication of this piece by Matlock, and the fact that he himself has already confessed to committing what would be considered date rape by American standards by having sex with at woman too inebriated to give consent, perhaps it’s time to stop referring to Roosh as a dating guru and to start referring to him as a date rape guru.
I don’t really have anything else to say.
Here, as brain bleach, are some cats with smaller versions of themselves:
Posted on May 25, 2013, in creepy, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, narcissism, playing the victim, PUA, rape, rape culture, rhymes with roosh, victim blaming and tagged misogyny, pickup artists, PUA, rape, rape culture. Bookmark the permalink. 851 Comments.
He seems to discourage people from raping women on the grounds that it isn’t much fun, though. That’s better than Roosh.
Dammit, I was totally hoping it was going to be a response to some creepy PUA talking about how to get sex from women who don’t want it, and he’d be saying “Um, dude, why would you want to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to have sex with you?”
I have far too much faith in humanity.
NOT MUCH BETTER
David, I swear to God I didn’t see your post until after I had posted my own this morning! This truly was a coincidence.
I … I think I’m just going to focus on the cats.
Do the commenters ever call this shit out, or do they cheer it on? I shouldn’t go look, should I?
You’ve really outdone yourself with these cat pics, though.
la strega, hey, we both write about the same dudes, so it’s bound to happen.
emily, when I looked, none of the commenters were calling him out in any way whatsoever. The only mention of the word “rape” was in reference to some guy getting “raped” in a divorce.
I can’t claim credit for finding all these cat pics — someone else put them together into one collection that’s floating around the internet.
These are the best cat pics I’ve ever seen. And I’ve seen a lot of cat pics.
I went and looked. At least no one else is admitting to having raped anyone.
Minty’s there too, teal deer and all. Does he fancy himself a PUA, or do you think he followed the link from here?
Alex, that guilt you’re feeling is because YOU RAPED SOMEONE. You should feel guilty, forever.
Jesus H. Tapdancing CHRIST I just can’t with dudes like this.
I love the kittiehs. They are totally making me forget about Roosh or his guest blogger or whoever.
Yeah, man, it’s such a bummer when the woman you’re raping doesn’t make enough of an effort to hide her fear and disgust. It’s her who should feel guilty, really.
(The sad thing is that I’m willing to bet there’s at least one person in the comments over there saying exactly the same thing in an un-ironic way.)
Only PUAs can write a post about rape where they focus on the “problem” that the quality of the sex isn’t very high for the rapist.
Also, I do think “date rape guru” should in fact be the new descriptor for Roissy and his ilk.
Finally, totally OT, but the #1 top post on r/mr right now is about their weird little fantasy of men being punished because they held a door open for an evil feminist. It has just exploded!
He even takes the time to clarify that he isn’t particularly talking about virgins, just in case anybody naive about MRAs/PUAs might give him the benefit of the doubt and think he could just be referring to consensual sex with a woman who is just nervous on her first time…
So I’m wondering, is this one of those guys who thinks that false rape accusations are a huge problem?
Also, I am pretty sure Typhon Blue (TRIGGER WARNING: who as you remember thinks it is evil for a woman to turn a man into a rapist without HIS consent by denying HER consent, thereby proving that all women who are raped are in fact the real rapists) would totally endorse the idea that a MORE TRIGGER WARNING woman being raped has a moral duty to make the sex good for her rapist because otherwise she’s just livestock or something, blah blah blah
[goes back to looking at the kitties]
Mot and Minimot
Some of the commenters, including Minty, noted that there is massive pressure on women not to be “sluts”…but mostly they’re complaining about why this is terrible for them and makes their boners sad, because women aren’t good enough in bed. But if they are good in bed, they’re probably diseased whores, and saying so has nothing to do with that pressure not to be “slutty”, and round and round we go…
@katz, I had the same reaction when I read the title of this post. I was really expecting something about how you should make sure your partner is actually into the sex if for no other reason than sex with an unenthusiastic partner isn’t as fun. Which, you know, is an amazing step up from the typical PUA horribleness.
I am apparently terribly naive.
@Cloudiah I did not know that about Typhon Blue. HOLY SHIT.
I shudder to think what he thinks the worst kind of sex is, if rape is only second worst.
Brain bleach: not kittehs, but still adorable.
I’m not at all surprised that an MRA “dating guru” would describe a woman who appears coerced or terrorized into having sex, rather than being a willing participant, as a “type” of dud sex partner. If anything, I’m only surprised that having sex with a woman who “just lies there” was classified as bad sex (though I’m sure such sex is quite fine with some MRAs).
emilygoddess, Read the typhonblue thread from a few days ago; links in the comments as well as the OP of course. I mean, if you can stomach it.
Also focusing on beautiful, beautiful kittehs.
This is a great post about kitties, Dave.
Also, my favorite door-holding story? Hands on crutches cannot open door. Thus, push with butt against door. Thus weight is being partially supported by pressure of door on butt. (Newton’s Third, dontcha kno?)
HelpfulGuyTM on other side of glass door HelpfullyTM yanks door open. I fall on my ass.
HelpfulGuyTM then proceeds to lecture me about how he is HelpfulTM, and how guilty it makes him feel when I don’t keep my balance when he’s just TryingToHelpTM.
=====
Totally OT: Argenti asked about pronouns: I tend to use she/her in everyday life out of convenience and feel comfortable with them from a gender perspective, but for political reasons, when in a group that can use them without either a) constantly getting them wrong, or b) throwing a fit, I tend to prefer ze/hir.
You can judge your own fit-throwing likelihood, but I estimate it as low.
To my intense regret, I read the comments. No one is calling out the sex as rape, but there is a commenter saying that any girl doing the “virgin act” is lying because women are whores and Cosmo magazine exists.
Our friend Marksworth Minter is there but I glazed over his comment. I swear I’ve read ingredient lists more interesting than his stuff.
And then there’s someone who links to here, or, as he called it, “the male feminist f***** den known as manboobz” (censorship mine). Not too interesting, but I totally dibs The Male Feminist F***** Den as my band name.
Please take down that ad calling Melanie Griffith and several other women (and a few men) ugly.
I find misogyny very distressing. In addition the ad is misandric and ageist.
clarified here: http://i.imgur.com/tqvFLUU.jpg
I really should stop reading feminist blogs; they make me want to get a cat, which isn’t terribly compatible with my living situation or lifestyle. And yeah, I’m just going to focus on the cats too, because good lord….
Wait, are virgins good or bad then? I am so confuuuuzed, manosphere!
I doubt anyone is having sex with this loser anyway. Just ew.
snore, thank you for your phony outrage over the ads on my site, the content of which I have no control over.
I really appreciated the cat pictures on this one.
re/ holding doors open
Yesterday I was exiting a crowded elevator. A guy in front of me moved aside and said “Ladies first.” Normally I would simply say “Thanks” and go. But this guy was on crutches (not a permanent disability, he is recovering from an injury) so I said, “No, please, crutches first.” Then he scowled at me. Did I do wrong?
Well, unlike Typhoon Blue (ughh, Cloudiah, that was horrible), this dood is feeling “guilty”, so that’s something? (trying to see the best in people)
Yeah, but he blames the girl for his guilt.
Why do I find the commentators more distressing to read than the OP? Not just this topic, all of them. I can read the OPs and laugh, but the commentators chiming in make me want to throw up. The way they try to outdo each other is just pathetic. I hope Minty does come back so we can tell him his wife was here and had a few words to say.
It’s kinda like this: which would you rather have, a ton of pig shit or two tons of pig shit?
La Strega: I brought that to his attention on the thread he shat in this morning.
The OP Alex Matlock has his own website “The Bro Bible.” It’s all the same old / same old. Does the world really need another PUA guru?
http://www.brobible.com/profile/375666
@hellkell:
“La Strega: I brought that to his attention on the thread he shat in this morning.”
Oh, I’m glad you told me. Had to go back and catch up. So happy for Minty he’s got a new imaginary girlfriend.
augochlorella
Thanks for reading comments so I don’t get tempted to check myself.
Fear in a girl’s eyes, her pushing you away = virgin act. Bleah.
(Of course, girl into it = filthy slutwhore)
That guy is one sad dude who’s beyond self-consistency I guess.
@snore
I could be wrong (I’m tone deaf sometimes), but you sound to me like a person who thinks feminists are offended at everything, trying to imitate one.
@Augochlorella
But…like everyone starts out as a virgin. I may not be well versed in the ‘art’ of mra logic, but I fail to see how every women would be lying about being virigins.
Must add to the brain bleach because holy fuck!
http://windylou.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83455133a69e20133ee26dc5a970b-800wi
@ Marie
Because women are liars. Even when they tell the truth, they do it in a lying way. Duh.
This isn’t quite brain bleach, but it made me happy, so I’ll just leave this here.
@cloudiah, I went and read some of that r/mr thread. I looked at the letter too and thought nah, this stinks like rotten fish. A couple of commenters did actually query its authenticity but were told it didn’t matter because shit like that happens OK? Proof, who needs it? Actual real things happening in real life? Nah, let’s just bloviate.
“snore, thank you for your phony outrage over the ads on my site, the content of which I have no control over.”
Someone forces you to run ads? To run these ads?
Your ad network that you chose provides you no way to flag certain ads or ways to better target your audience?
All of that seems unlikely.
I can’t imagine any person more responsible for the ads that appear on your website than you, David.
If they are misogynistic (misandric and ageist) and you let them through after is has been pointed out, I think the only logical conclusion is that you approve of their content, or value the advertising dollars more than the abusive messaging.
My understanding was that these ads differ depending on the google history of the user. So the ads I see will be different than the ads that other people see. I’m certainly not seeing any Melanie Griffith ad.
Yeah, I got ads for articles on ham recipes, free running, left handedness and bond girls
Is this another abysmal attempt at a “gotcha?” If so, you’re terrible. Sorry.
@augoclorella
I can see them in incognito mode (no cookies or history)
I don’t have any ads, but yeah, most ads pop up based on YOUR google history and searches…
snore, is this your first day in internet world?
I’ve been here for a while so I can give you a few hints. If you go to an atheist site, the ads will often be for stuff about the bible. If you go to a site debunking alternative medicine, the ads will include homeopathy products or reiki classes.
The mindless computer programs that pick up on key words can’t tell whether the item in question uses such words positively or otherwise. They just pick them up and dump their rubbish all over the place.
This public service announcement is now ended. Thank you for paying attention.
Snore, this is for you.
Now STFU.
Psst, everyone else, don’t click on katz’ link, or install ABP. David needs the revenue from those ads to finance his plans for world domination via robocats.
Er, maybe I wasn’t supposed to mention that last part.
I know; that was specifically for snore.
You can also install it and allow ads on certain sites.
All I can say after that effort is, thank goodness for Cats and Mini-Me cats.
Brzzzzzz is sorta like the sound of snoring… (note: while I detect a whiff of dirty laundry, I don’t think it’s Brzzzzzz)
Sometimes I like to pretend that everything these “PUAs” post is just a horrible form of commentary and satire…I mean, really?
What I just read makes me weep. :(
@cloudiah
I would gladly bow down before our cute robokitty lords!
Snore:
Browsing incognito doesn’t prevent pages from picking up on cookies in your browser history, it just prevents the pages you visit while incognito from leaving cookies. Delete your cookies and history and the ads might change. (It’s also possible that the tracking methods used by ads can’t be deleted user-side, I’m not totally sure.)
Also, I suspect you are not acting in good faith, because claiming that an insult against a female celebrity is “misandric” is a huge red flag, but maybe I’m being too cynical.
snore sounds like Some Dude Bored.
Who d’you think was more boring, him or Minty?
Lard, they both bored the snot out of me, but SDBWYS probably wins.
I find it funny that the hill snore wants to die on is ads, clearly he can’t refute the OP. Derailing pissant.
“Browsing incognito doesn’t prevent pages from picking up on cookies in your browser history, it just prevents the pages you visit while incognito from leaving cookies. Delete your cookies and history and the ads might change. (It’s also possible that the tracking methods used by ads can’t be deleted user-side, I’m not totally sure.)”
No, that’s not accurate: see http://www.howtogeek.com/117776/htg-explains-how-private-browsing-works-and-why-it-doesnt-offer-complete-privacy/
You can test this for yourself. When not normal mode, wordpress fills in the comment login field for me – that’s cookie based. When I browse in incognito mode the first time, wordpress cannot fill in the comment login field for me — it has no cookie at that point and it is not being allowed to read cookies that might be there from normal mode.
“Also, I suspect you are not acting in good faith, because claiming that an insult against a female celebrity is “misandric” is a huge red flag, but maybe I’m being too cynical.”
No, you’re not clicking on the ad. Click on the ad, you’ll find it’s misogynistic, misandric, and ageist.
You know, which ads you see is partly based on your own internet history (for example, when I was looking at Paige jeans I kept getting ads for them whenever I was on this site). So, if ads about how lolugly women are is what he’s seeing…
^ I agree with both of you. Since time-wasting trolls are very boring I see no good reason to bother engaging him directly.
Nothing in that link indicates to me that cookies (or at least some cookies) aren’t stored from normal browsing and used during incognito browsing. Cookies from the incognito sessions aren’t stored, but that’s different. Certainly my browser still makes suggestions based on my normal browser when I open an incognito window.
Regardless, though, this:
So yeah, the ads are likely not based on storage on your end; incognito doesn’t change that.
Can’t – I’m not getting that ad. Trust me when I say that using the word “misandric” is a red flag in almost every situation, though.
Snore: Yawn
Oh fuck, load up the kitties. I just got out of an argument with a Fifty Shades fan who claimed that partner A ignoring partner B’s “no” or “stop” or even both in succession isn’t rape if partner B ends up just going with it. She then went on to say that any person calling such an experience rape is a liar and false accuser. And now this? Fear in the eyes, pushing away, sitting awkwardly is just bad sex? I’m with GreySky; I’d get a kitty of my own if my financial situation was better.
snore, I chose to have WordAds ads on this site; I do not choose *which* ads run on this site — wordpress does, or at least the WordAds part of wordpress does. You see that thing that says “about these ads” above the ads? Click it. It will tell you more “about these ads.” It will also provide you with an email address to report any that you found offensive.
This derailing discussion is now closed.
@Alex
Wow. That person sounds like a real asshole. My offering of brainbleach: http://dailypicksandflicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/cat-hugging-white-rat.jpg