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On Reddit, a woman explains to other women why men hate them. SPOILER ALERT: It’s because women suck.

Wonder Woman: Always alienating decent men with her blatant careerism.

Wonder Woman: Forever alienating decent men with her blatant careerism.

Hey ladies! Have you ever wondered why so many men hate you? Well, you’re in luck, because on Reddit, another lady just like you has an answer. It’s because you suck. No, really. Men hate women because women are terrible. And not very ladylike, to boot.

Let’s join FleetingWish as she explains “Why Do Men “Hate” Us?” in Part 2 of her Who-knows-how-many-parts opus “Attracting Alphas,” which she has helpfully posted in the fPUAs subreddit, a forum apparently devoted to teaching “females” how to more effectively get picked up by alleged Alpha males.

FleetingWish starts off by distinguishing “misogyny” — in scare quotes — from bad things like racism:

[W]e cannot to fall into the common trap of lumping “misogynist” in the same category of “racist” and “homophobic”. The reason is they occur for entirely different reasons. Racist and homophobic people occur largely from lack of exposure. It’s easy to have misconceived notions of certain groups of people when you haven’t met any.

Obviously! For who in history were less racist than America’s antebellum slaveowners, white people who lived in close quarters with large numbers of black people and sometimes even fathered children with them via an ancient non-racist practice known as “raping your slaves.”

But this is not the case for women; men have met many, many women in their lives. Any “misogyny” that they may have developed (or lack thereof) has been created by their exposure to women, and those women have only confirmed their biases.

Huh. So if you retain your hate for a group of people even when you have had considerable contact with these people, this means your hate was justified? By this logic, then, slaveowners were justified in their racism, and Nazi concentration camp guards were justified in their antisemitism.

[O]n to the reason men “hate” us. There are countless complaints to be found, but they all seem to lead to the same core. They don’t see what value women can provide for them (outside of sex).

And how exactly is this the fault of the women, rather than a reflection of the rather limited imagination of the men in question?

When I first understood this, I felt disappointed and sad, because I want to feel that my presence makes a difference, and not that 50% of the population would be better off without me.

You didn’t ask: What the fuck is wrong with these guys who think that that the value of women can be reduced to what they provide men sexually?

But I wanted to find the truth behind the anger, so I asked myself two questions; “What are women providing for men in today’s society?” and “What should women be providing them?” (Or alternatively “What is it that women could provide that would make men see their worth?”)

Why would you assume there was “truth behind the anger” rather than, say, a stunted personality and a giant sense of entitlement? Why are women obligated to “provide” anything for men, apart from the basic human decency all people are generally expected to show one another?

I answered my first question by observing the world around me. We have a society where women are encouraged to behave like men. We are encouraged to be competitive, career driven, even to be brash and arrogant in order to get what we want.

None of these things are inherently male traits.

Also, we are told again and again, that not only should men not expect anything of us (not even common decency), but that we should leave any one who places any demands (or requests) on us.

Huh? I think Ms. Wish may be having imaginary conversations with those old villains the Straw Feminists.

The trouble with the first mentality is by acting like men, we run the risk of being second place to actual men. If a man wants to have a relationship of some kind with someone who behaves masculine, why would he seek a woman? … If he wants to seek out a woman, it’s because he’s seeking someone who behaves like a woman, and personifies feminine behavior.

Says you.  Even setting aside all those who fall outside of, or otherwise confound, the traditional gender binary, there are plenty of straight cis men who have no problem with straight cis women whom you’d no doubt define as excessively “masculine.” Indeed, recent research suggests that men aren’t as intimidated by successful, high-earning women as the old stereotypes suggest. A recent report from the Brookings Institution noted that marriage rates amongst the top-earning women have been rising while those of lower lower-earning women have declined.

And why do you even care if other women act in a way that you’ve defined as “masculine?” If you want to act in a way you think is appropriately “feminine,” it’s your life, go for it. Let other people define “masculinity” and “femininity,” and their relationships with these concepts, how they want.

The trouble with the second mentality is that by not taking into consideration what men want from us, it takes away our ability to listen to their needs. Because men have needs, they have feelings, they have wants, and they have desires. And those needs are important, they are important for their basic happiness and fulfillment in life.

Uh, yeah. Women have needs, too. I’m pretty sure most successful long-term relationships are based on fulfilling both partners’ needs, not on forcing one partner into a “feminine” mold so as not to challenge the male ego.

The solution to both of these is actually the same. Be feminine. That’s what men are desperately craving from us. … Men don’t want a woman that they have to compete with, they compete with people all day long, at the end of the day they want someone who they don’t have to compete with. 

In other words, if you’re better than him at Halo 4, go ahead and let him win. These sorts of dudes tend to have a bit of a temper.

The thing is, those men who “hate” us, they don’t really hate us, they desperately want to be able to love us. But they have been unable to with every, single, woman they have come across. And they’ve become so hurt, that they don’t know what else to do.

Uh, no, I’m pretty sure a lot of these guys really DO hate you. If you don’t believe me, I’ve got roughly 1200 posts in the Man Boobz archive that might provide some further illumination on this point — although, admittedly, some of the posts are about kitties, not misogyny. So maybe 1000 posts?

So, my challenge to anyone reading this is if you see these men on reddit, try to empathize where they are coming from. Instead of being angry at them, be understanding of them. Instead of defending yourself, defend them. Instead of telling them “you’re not like that”, show them you aren’t like that. Respond to these posts with something to the effect of “Wow, I’m really sorry that women you’ve come across have treated you so bad, I wish there was something I could do to heal that hurt you’re feeling.”

“I’m so, so sorry you think I’m a worthless bitch.”

By responding like this, you accomplish so many things. First is you are validating their concerns, second you empathize with their feelings, and third you show them that there are women who care (demonstrating to them that they might be wrong after all). You will see that if you do this, these men’s hearts will melt so fast for the opportunity to believe that there are women who care.

At least until they disagree with you about something, at which point you can expect all the old misogyny to erupt again, this time aimed directly at you.

Naturally, all the guys who for some reason were reading a subreddit devoted to the “self-improvement of women” thought that Ms. Wish’s advice to her fellow not-fellows sounded a-ok with them.

“As a male, this is spot on,” wrote one. “This actually made me get shivers. Thank you for existing. Thank you for caring.

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Posted on May 15, 2013, in a woman is always to blame, alpha males, antifeminism, gender policing, ladies against women, literal nazis, misogyny, PUA, reactionary bullshit, reddit, straw feminists and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 442 Comments.

  1. If only I hadn’t gone to school and got a job with actual responsibility, more men would love me. Maybe.

  2. Oh FleetingWish, why didn’t I see it before? You’ve opened my eyes! MRAs don’t hate us, they’re just misunderstood… the same way a malaria bearing mosquito is.

    Nope, sorry, I’m not going to give an inch of ground to those slobbering dogs. Na na!

  3. Don’t forget ladies, the men are always right, just flutter your eyelashes and while admiring everything they do and say.

  4. Don’t forget ladies, the men are always right, just flutter your eyelashes and while admiring everything they do and say.

    Be careful with fluttering your eyelashes. That could convey the message that your eyelashes are better than his, or that he should care. Therefore, fluttering your eyelashes is misandry.

  5. Obviously, this is probably giving the author of the source post too much credit, but I think the point she’s trying to make about homophobia and racism is that the less virulent forms of both are generally caused by not really knowing LGBT people or members of other races. This may or may not be true (and could also be used for utterly unfounded claims about it being up to minorities to befriend bigots), but it is at least conceivable. Befriending a black person probably wouldn’t reform a Klansman, but it might help a person who finds overt racism despicable but feels vaguely uncomfortable around African Americans.

    This doesn’t stop the rest of her argument from reading a like a mid-60s anti-feminist taunt, of course.

  6. @titianblue

    Thank you for giving me my first laugh of the day!!!

  7. I challenge her premise that most of these unhappy misogynists have known many women.

  8. “Because men have needs, they have feelings, they have wants, and they have desires. And those needs are important, they are important for their basic happiness and fulfillment in life.”

    And men are the only ones who have needs, feelings, wants, and desires? So basically this is just reinforcing the idea that only men (straight, cis, white of course) are people. What does that make the rest of us then?

  9. I “love” her scarequotes around “hate” and “misogyny”

    So here’s a thing: I’m not a very competetive person. If I’m competing with someone, I like to do it with someone who I know won’t make fun of me if I lose or w/e so it’s just fun and games and there aren’t very high stakes. So I get not wanting to compete with people all the time.

    But she doesn’t act like some men don’t want to compete with women b/c some men aren’t competetive (The horrors!) she acts like it’s because only men can compete with each other Its like she thinks that men can’t stand to lose to a woman, so women shouldn’t even try to compete with them.

  10. So that’s what I’ve been doing wrong!

    If I become a “yes woman” to everything my FwB says…and let him win every videogame we play together…and give up my job that pays 2x what his does…and stop buying him things he likes and stop splitting our dinner/entertainment costs…and never take the initiative during sex…He would be MUCH happier!

    Oh, wait. No he wouldn’t.
    He loves those things about me, because we are individuals who care about each other and understand that we can have differing opinions while still enjoying being together. Binary gender roles are SO last century…

  11. @Curlyfries

    We are obviously llamas.
    How could you not know this? :P

  12. Man, better not let my husband find out that I am working a higher-profile job than him and have more disposable income, have been rocking a pompadour for the past 2 years, wear men’s/unisex clothes with sports bras most of the time (and a binder sometimes), don’t wear makeup, and oh… especially don’t tell him that I don’t identify as a woman either. He might divorce me!

    And he -definitely- hasn’t ever said he’s found me to be one of the best influences in his life and that I’m inspiring to him. That would mean he sees me as a human being or something dumb like that.

  13. But…why do I care? She has this giant screed on how to allegedly make myself more “likable” but I have no desire to be liked, and I think we’ve established that needing everyone to like you all the time is a personality flaw.

    Keep hating me because I refuse to pretend to be stupid so you can feel superior, weirdos.

  14. “What is it that women could provide that would make men see their worth?”

    Nothing, but misogynistic men can easily see the worth of womankind by realizing that they’re fully human.

    I guess that’s a lot to ask, though.

    The thing is, those men who “hate” us, they don’t really hate us, they desperately want to be able to love us. But they have been unable to with every, single, woman they have come across. And they’ve become so hurt, that they don’t know what else to do.

    Yeah, let’s feel bad for the people who persistently dehumanize, objectify, and insult us with misogyny.

  15. thebionicmommy

    If a man wants to have a relationship of some kind with someone who behaves masculine, why would he seek a woman? … If he wants to seek out a woman, it’s because he’s seeking someone who behaves like a woman, and personifies feminine behavior.

    Okay, there are plenty of men that want a woman who will defer to them, wait on them hand and foot, smile all the time, and use a soft voice like Michelle Duggar. Luckily there are also lots of straight men that don’t want to have a relationship with a woman who is a doormat. If anyone is bashing men here, it’s anti feminist women.

    Oh, and I love how anti feminist women think that being a woman gives them a free pass to be a misogynist. Ah yes, go ahead and throw all other women under the bus to win praise from PUA’s on reddit. That’s totally fine because you’re a woman!

    The thing is, those men who “hate” us, they don’t really hate us, they desperately want to be able to love us. But they have been unable to with every, single, woman they have come across. And they’ve become so hurt, that they don’t know what else to do.

    I bet you anything she is the kind of person to repeat words of wisdom like “Men want respect, and women want love” or “Women need to be told they are loved, while men need to be shown they are loved with sex and food”.

  16. Chie Satonaka

    And men are the only ones who have needs, feelings, wants, and desires? So basically this is just reinforcing the idea that only men (straight, cis, white of course) are people. What does that make the rest of us then?

    DUH, women are not people.

  17. Internalized misogyny ahoy!

  18. They don’t see what value women can provide for them (outside of sex).

    Well, that’s easy. What value do other men provide for them? We’re talking about heterosexual men here, so sex is off the table when dealing with each other, so why do they even do it? If the problem is “women acting just like men,” well…men act just like men, and they don’t seem to have a problem getting along with each other, so what exactly is the problem, again?

    Cut the bullshit, FW. The problem with these guys isn’t that they don’t know what women are good for besides sex. It’s that they have already decided that the only thing women are good for is sex (and maid service), and they’re all pissy because women disagree.

  19. Chie Satonaka

    Also, women’s very real fears of getting murdered, raped, sexually harassed, and abused can just magically disappear if we start acting more like proper chicks. Got it.

    Go fuck yourself.

  20. I bet this woman has every volume of “The Rules.” Barf.

  21. Sign me up for being a llama.

  22. Wait, there are women who actually want to attract PUAs? Where did I put that Excedrin?

    Speaking as a straight cis male, I’m most attracted to successful, competitive women. This might be because I don’t find them threatening. Maybe.

    Or perhaps I’m just beta.

  23. Llamas! Of course! How could I not see it before?! Now I finally have an answer as to that llama-y smell is.

  24. “The problem with these guys isn’t that they don’t know what women are good for besides sex. It’s that they have already decided that the only thing women are good for is sex (and maid service), and they’re all pissy because women disagree.”

    THIS.

  25. An Inconvenient Truth

    there are plenty of straight cis men who have no problem with straight cis women whom you’d no doubt define as excessively “masculine.” Indeed, recent research suggests that men aren’t as intimidated by successful, high-earning women as the old stereotypes suggest.

    1) I doubt that “plenty” accurately represents the niche market for high-T, furry-armed manjaws.

    2) Replacing “not attracted to” with “intimidated by” is nothing but ego salve. A man doesn’t have to be “intimidated” by a 40-something HR director to prefer the idea of copulating with a 20-something waitress.

  26. That screed gave me shivers, too, but probably not in the same way :-/

    I mean, it’s bad enough when people act like men are justified for hating women because of hypergamy or gold-digging or whatever. If men were really the oppressed party, their hatred might make some sense. But to argue that men are justified in hating women because we don’t kiss their asses enough? To say that we’re denying their feelings by not submitting ot their every whim? I can’t even.

    The guy thanking her for caring may be the scariest thing I’ve seen all week. Dude, you are not oppressed by women having lives of their own.

  27. To say that we’re denying their feelings by not submitting ot their every whim? I can’t even.

    I think we’ve used the term ‘feeling of entitlement’ before, but this really captures exactly what it is they feel entitled TO, doesn’t it? A world where all women exist only to please them and submit to their every whim.

    Ugh. I feel like I need a shower now.

  28. Dude, you are not oppressed by women having lives of their own.

    This. So much this.

    Dudes, women owe you nothing other than basic human decency. If you feel oppressed or threatened by women being free and full human beings, the problem is all with you. You’re the asshole.

  29. I think I speak for a large proportion of women when I say that if all men expected a submissive, non-competitive, virginal, stay-at-home (or at least not involved in a career she loves), hyperfeminine “help-meet” to marry then I’d be perfectly happy to stay single my entire life. Because I’m not like that, and having a husband isn’t worth the cost of making myself like that.

    Luckily for us, that isn’t the case, and there are plenty of men who aren’t looking for that. (I do feel sorry for people who fit the sexist’s ideas of a ‘perfect wife’ because I think they’d be terrible husbands, even for someone who fit their ideal.)

  30. Continuing what I said earlier, I think what bothers me the most about screeds like this is that the question “Why should men bother with women if women are just like men?” only makes sense if you don’t wonder why men bother with each other. And the only reason you would ask the one and not the other is if it goes without saying that women are inferior to men and need some kind of uniquely valuable feminine add-on to be worth anyone’s time.

    That said add-on always turns out to “subvert your needs to his all the time” is just bonus squick.

  31. thebionicmommy

    (I do feel sorry for people who fit the sexist’s ideas of a ‘perfect wife’ because I think they’d be terrible husbands, even for someone who fit their ideal.)

    I agree 100%. I would say this as “they’d be terrible husbands, especially for someone who fit their ideal”.

    No matter how submissive or compliant a woman is, she could never please a man like that. Many of the men who want to own women are also abusers, and abusers keep changing the rules on what their victims need to do to please them.

  32. Grumpycatisagirl

    I love the rest of that “thank you for caring” dude’s comment, especially that he made an edit to “clarify”:

    “This is so important in this day and age, we’re attracted to our opposite. We want feminine women. Not competing women who will just annoy us. We’re supposed to be the strong and aggressive ones, not you (not saying that women shouldn’t be independent as well as emotionally and psychologically strong). We are supposed to complement each other, to create a perfect whole if you will.

    Edit: Note in parentheses to the nitpickers.”

    So thanks to the edit, nitpickers can be reassured that just because the dude doesn’t think women should be strong, it doesn’t mean he thinks women shouldn’t be strong.

    No. Because no.

  33. We’re supposed to be the strong and aggressive ones

    Just what Bud is saying on the other thread. Male is strong, male is good, male is awesome. Stop infringing on our stuff!! Waaaaah!

    Owly really was dealing with straight-up projection…

  34. We’re supposed to be the strong and aggressive ones, not you (not saying that women shouldn’t be independent as well as emotionally and psychologically strong).

    Translation: ” I want women to defer to and obey me, to hang onto my every word, to agree with me on everything and always play to be stupider/more ignorant than me on every subject and in every aspect of life.. At the same time, I don’t want them to be so psychologically and emotionally weak, that it becomes a burden to me. Nor do I want them to be so ignorant and stupid that I will, godforbid, have to babysit them. In other words, I want the benefits of being “strong and aggressive”, but not the burdens.”

  35. I’m puzzled by the “men hate women” trope. Of course misogyny is very real and casual sexism is everywhere, but wtf men hate women?
    I must be surrounding myself with betas who are really good actors because it really seems to me that decent, non-hateful guys exist. Actually, I’m still trying to explain to my guy friends what an MRA is, and they don’t still don’t understand the concept.

  36. bookdragonette

    @tarnishedsophia

    So that’s what I’ve been doing wrong!

    If I become a “yes woman” to everything my FwB says…and let him win every videogame we play together…and give up my job that pays 2x what his does…and stop buying him things he likes and stop splitting our dinner/entertainment costs…and never take the initiative during sex…He would be MUCH happier!

    Nah, you’d just be a hypergamous golddigger then.

    Yeah, I’ll change myself for my partner. Never mind that he doesn’t want me to change. He’s a man, of course he does. Eurgh.

  37. That’s another thing. They arrange the culture so that “masculine” traits (strength! aggression! careerism! stoicism!) are considered “better” than their “feminine” opposites, and then they get all upset when women aren’t content to be weak and diffident and housebound and emotional.

  38. @karalora
    Yes, but if you’re not weak and ladylike, you won’t be loved by an asshole! Think of the consequences!

  39. Ya know, even if the context of her post was relationships in dating, she doesn’t actually talk about relationships at all. It seems like she’s talking about all men are fed up with all women and all women need to figure out how they can provide for all men.

    And GAH at those questions. It’s just playing into the entitlement complex of the mysogynists, and it’s asking what all women are obligated to do for all men.

  40. “We’re attracted to our opposite…We are supposed to complement each other, to create a perfect whole if you will.”

    NO NO NO. I am not someone’s missing “half.” I don’t want to be with someone who is “incomplete” without me. And most attractions are based on commonalities — at least in my experience and observations of relationships around me,

  41. We’re attracted to our opposite…We are supposed to complement each other, to create a perfect whole if you will.

    Since when are men and women “opposites”? Last I checked, we’re members of the same species.

  42. And now I’ve got that song from Hedwig, “The Origin of Love,” stuck in my head.

    Pretty song, but really the idea behind the lyrics is such crap.

  43. thebionicmommy

    We are supposed to complement each other, to create a perfect whole if you will.

    We were just discussing complimentary roles in the backlash thread with Budmin. Here is how a hetero couple is supposed to fit together to make the whole, according to misogynists of all types.

    The man: His needs come first, he calls the shots, he is looked up to for his awesomeness. The downside is he has to be stoic when he actually needs help, and if he doesn’t fit the ideal, other men will bash him.

    The woman: She is the helpmeet. She defers to him. She puts his needs first, caters to him, makes him feel strong. She is happy to spend all her time in the kitchen cooking his favorite foods, and pretending she doesn’t have sexual desires of her own because she is too busy worrying about his. The upside is that if she goes back in time and ends up on the Titanic, she has a better chance of getting on a lifeboat.

    Hmm, I wonder why MRA’s, PUA’s, and patriarchal leaders, most of whom are men, are so keen on pushing these “complimentary roles”?

  44. Do they have any tips how to avoid Alpha males?

  45. CassandraSays

    Wait, why are women supposed to care whether or not PUAs see our deep inner worth? Actually, why would we want to go out of our way to attract PUAs at all? Now if there was a forum explaining how to repel them before they make their first approach, that might be useful.

  46. We have a society where women are encouraged to behave like men. We are encouraged to be competitive, career driven, even to be brash and arrogant in order to get what we want.

    The trouble with the first mentality is by acting like men, we run the risk of being second place to actual men. If a man wants to have a relationship of some kind with someone who behaves masculine, why would he seek a woman? … If he wants to seek out a woman, it’s because he’s seeking someone who behaves like a woman, and personifies feminine behavior

    Does this mean that Women, the monolith, WANT someone to compete with at home? If so, how can they compete with someone and not be competitive at the same time? Or does this mean that men can turn off their competitiveness but women lack enough maleness to do this? Also, if men are naturally competitive 24/7, won’t they get bored in their relationship if they’re just constantly competing AT someone?

    Inquiring minds…. don’t really give a damn, but bored minds want to know!! So many holes, so little bullshit to fill em with!

  47. “But this is not the case for women; men have met many, many women in their lives. Any “misogyny” that they may have developed (or lack thereof) has been created by their exposure to women, and those women have only confirmed their biases.”

    You know, when every woman has a problem with you, ever think that YOUR personality is the problem? If you keep getting the same results, maybe you should change what you’re doing instead of expecting an entire gender to bend to your “needs”.

  48. It’s high time we started treating traditional gender roles as a kink.

    “Manly” men, “Wimmenly” women. I hereby acknowledge that this is who you are. That conforming to rigid and prescribed gender formulations is how you get your jollies. I’m very happy that you want to role play “Leave it To Beaver” scenes. Let your freak flag fly!

    Get together on your websites of retro bakelite and formica finish, find someone who shares your kink.

    Just stop forcing us all into your little fetish, ok?

  49. CassandraSays

    Okay, there are plenty of men that want a woman who will defer to them, wait on them hand and foot, smile all the time, and use a soft voice like Michelle Duggar.

    Actually that’s a great illustration of how subjective all this stuff about what men want is. Most of the men I know would either be actively repulsed by Michelle Duggar or just not notice her at all (dowdy, too obviously devout, devoutness is not much fun to be around for those who’re very fond of their debauchery of choice), but for some men she’s exactly what they want. So any time someone comes along and pronounces on what all women must do to attract men they run into the unfortunate fact that men are not a monolith and they all want different things.

    Well, that and the facts that a. not all women want the kind of man they’re giving lessons on how to attract, b. many women aren’t willing to pretend to be someone they’re not just to get sexual attention and c. lesbians, they exist.

  50. But they have been unable to with every, single, woman they have come across.

    Uh yes, generally you do not love every single person you meet. Sometimes…*gasp* you might even dislike them!

    What man expects that when he meets a married lady of 21 that she is going to just leap on to his penis? And that if she does not, she deserves his unending ire?

  51. pineapplecookies

    I find this kind of rhetoric very…. anti-male, to be honest. If I were a man, I would be offended.

    I love what thebionicmommy said: “Luckily there are also lots of straight men that don’t want to have a relationship with a woman who is a doormat. If anyone is bashing men here, it’s anti feminist women.”

    I feel this every time I read this kind of speech.

    – Btw, I’m new here. I’ve been reading this blog for quite sometime. What amazes me the most is that it’s probably the only website which I read the comment’s section. I usually avoid it like the plague. But the comments here are great! I have a lot of fun reading you all ^_^ So I decided to enter the lounge and have a cookie and some tea too… :)

  52. @CassandraSays:

    That’s one thing I noticed most strongly about the comment thread. Everyone there, guys included, are convinced that Michelle Duggar is what all men want, or the vast majority anyway. They tell women who don’t want to be more feminine “Fine, go ahead, just don’t complain when no men want you.” And when someone tries to point out that men and women aren’t monaliths, they basically respond with “yes they are.”

  53. Okay, there are plenty of men that want a woman who will defer to them, wait on them hand and foot, smile all the time, and use a soft voice like Michelle Duggar.

    Which completely ignores how the family would cope after the “strong one” disappeared.

  54. Which completely ignores how the family would cope after the “strong one” disappeared.

    Nah, then it’s just time for the oldest boy to be head of the family. If he doesn’t want to? Too bad!

  55. CassandraSays

    @ kirbywarp

    They try their hardest to shove every man in the world into that tiny little box, shame or attack any man who doesn’t want to/can’t force himself to fit, and then they say that feminists are the ones who hate men.

  56. Which completely ignores how the family would cope after the “strong one” disappeared.

    What would an MRA care? They only talk about their own needs and wants. They don’t care what happens once it no longer affects them. The “love” for a perfect woman that they talk about is something that’s for their benefit, not hers.

    Hence, après moi, le déluge.

  57. thebionicmommy

    Everyone there, guys included, are convinced that Michelle Duggar is what all men want, or the vast majority anyway.

    It also implies that all hetero women want Jim Bob Duggar *gag*. I’m sorry, but that guy makes my skin crawl. So if those PUA’s are telling women how to attract manly, patriarchal men like him, some women will make notes of what not to do.

    I’m probably an asshole for dissing the Duggars after all the work they did here in Joplin, but it just gets sickening to always seen them held up as the ideal everyone else has to aspire to.

  58. I’m still stuck on why there’s a whole thing about how women can attract PUAs. Isn’t that counterproductive? Isn’t the whole POINT of PUAdom to TRICK women into going to bed with them? If a hunter was really into the chase part, and bought all this equipment (night vision goggles, scans from the air, etc., etc.) in order to get an elusive deer, how would he feel if the deer came knocking on his door saying “HI!!! Here I am!!!! Wanna kill me????”

  59. Yawn to another misogynist. I only got a couple of paragraphs in before my eyes glazed over (well, it is only 5.45 am here).

    The sort of creeps she seems to think are representative of men … well, their good opinions aren’t worth having, even if it were possible, because they hate women. Doesn’t matter what we do. Even if we lived down to her prescriptions, they’d still hate us for being women.

    I’ll stick to my alpha king, thankyerverymuch.

  60. Nope, the Duggars are fuckin’ creepy regardless of how much good work they do anywhere.

  61. CassandraSays

    FFS, my Dad wouldn’t want someone like Michelle Duggar, and he’s in his 60s and has spent his entire working life in a super macho environment. In fact, I think you’d have a hard time finding a Brit who was into that who wasn’t either very religious or an MRA.

  62. The fPUA subreddit is hilarious. It’s nearly dead and appears to be at least 90% men, all of them waiting patiently for an actual woman to show up so they can lecture her on how to please them. There’s a recent thread entitled “How Many Here Are Actually Female?” First response:

    The 8 hour silence speaks volumes. I’m starting to think there is a conspiracy going on.
    I’m also a dude.

    A few women post to say that they check in sometimes but mostly lurk on the regular PUA reddits. Sadly, it seems like they hang out there to learn seduction tips for themselves, not to mold themselves into PUA fantasy women. Then another guy posts:

    ah fuck were all dudes… i like helping the lil fishies what can I say! there are so many boring lame and uninteresting women out there… I WOULD KILL FOR A GIRL WHO KNOWS HOW TO KINO ESCALATE IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK DAMN IT!!

    This is awesome enough, but then comes the response:

    haha, I feel like we need to start a real community…anyone up for buying an island?

    YES REDDIT ISLAND YESSSSS

  63. CassandraSays

    OK, that’s hilarious. Why are there no women on this subreddit we set up to teach women how to please us? It’s one of life’s great mysteries, like magnets.

  64. La Strega – “NO NO NO. I am not someone’s missing “half.” I don’t want to be with someone who is “incomplete” without me.”

    THIS. Louis and I describe ourselves as matching leaves on the tree, and I sometimes say we’re the matching pieces of a jigsaw for the idea of intelocking, but we were not incomplete before; we add to each other.

  65. I WOULD KILL FOR A GIRL WHO KNOWS HOW TO KINO ESCALATE IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK DAMN IT!!

    …WTF?

    It’s exactly what it sounds like. Techniques to get touching them early and often, to get them into bed quicker.

    WTF?

    “I would kill for a woman who would touch me back.”

    Um…

    Yeah, see, the part where PUAs talk about how much sex they get, and act like it all must be great sex because they were there and a naked woman was there, and all that?

    Little touches like this truly make them seem like the saddest creepiest clowns in ALLLLL Creepy Clowntown.

  66. This sounds like something Sunshine Mary from the Sunshine Mary and the Dragon blog could have written. Maybe Fleeting Wish is another one of her pseudonyms.

    In any case, it seems that the MRAs have brainwashed this woman. Let’s just hope she doesn’t write anything to raise their ire. She’ll learn real fast what they really think of women.

  67. thebionicmommy

    OK, that’s hilarious. Why are there no women on this subreddit we set up to teach women how to please us? It’s one of life’s great mysteries, like magnets.

    I know what’s going on. It all makes sense. Women aren’t there because, get this, they are playing hard to get! They are using lady game. Very clever.

  68. Men don’t want a woman that they have to compete with, they compete with people all day long, at the end of the day they want someone who they don’t have to compete with.

    This is actually one of my big terrors. I am in seminary, and rabbinical work is one of those jobs, like doctoring or lawyering or being a politician, that utterly consumes your life. And not just your life, but the life of your family, because you are a public figure. And there’s a definite unbalance in my program between the number of single women and the number of single men (granted, most of the people in my program are partnered, and there are more women than men in terms of numbers). And I know it’s totally possible/ likely that I will find a guy who will be excited and supportive about my career, but it’s really hard to maintain a positive attitude when people keep saying stuff like this.

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