Question Time: Backlash, Frontlash, The End of Men?
It’s Question Time again. I’ve been reading through Susan Faludi’s Backlash and her more recent book on men, Stiffed, as well as some of the discussion surrounding Hanna Rosin’s The End of Men and Kay Hymowitz’ Manning Up. Faludi, writing in 1991, obviously saw the 80s as a time of antifeminist backlash.
My question is how you would characterize the years since she wrote her book. A continuation of that backlash? A time of feminist resurgence, from the Riot Grrls up to Rosin’s predicted End of Men? A mixed period of progress and regression?
I’m wondering both what your general assessment of the situation is, and also what specific evidence you have — either hard data or personal experience — that underlies your overall view. This could be anything from data on employment segregation or the prevalence of rape to your sense of how media representations of women and men have or haven’t changed, or even how people you know have changed the ways they talk about gender. What do you think are the significant data points to look at?
The question isn’t just what has changed for women but what has changed for men as well — with my underlying question being: what if anything in the real world has changed that might be making the angry men we talk about here so angry? I think we can agree that most of their own explanations are bullshit, but could there be a grain of truth to any of them? Or something that they don’t see that’s far more compelling?
In the interest of spurring discussion and providing some data to work with, here are a bunch of articles responding to (or at least vaguely related to the issues raised in) Rosin’s End of Men, including a link to her original Atlantic article. In addition, here are some posts by sociologist Philip Cohen challenging many of Rosin’s claims, as well as more general posts of his on gender inequality. (Feel free to completely ignore any or all of these; I just found them useful resources.)
Posted on May 11, 2013, in antifeminism, david has questions, feminism, further reading and tagged antifeminism, end of men, feminism, hanna rosin. Bookmark the permalink. 800 Comments.
@Aaliyah:
By the way, I love how your avatar matches up so well with your comment. :)
@katz. That was none of my intention. I should’ve regularly read the comments section. I’m sorry, I had the wrong ideas. I understand what you are saying. I’m sorry for my outburst. I’ve never been treated this way on a board. Other boards have the WISDOM of giving a new poster the benefit of a doubt. I’m so sorry for the faux pas. I had no idea that the “Feminism/Gender Equality name” was a sexist thing spewed from sexist people. What CAN I do to win your trust.
You see, I had a lot of wrong impressions about things. I’ve read some feminist-friendly sites that talked about stuff like how “Feminism” as a word have been smeared by bigots & the whole “naming convention” things. I confess, I’m noob with this Feminist stuff. I never went to Women’s Studies classes & I’m a total novice.
I’m sorry for the tantrum. I took it personally. I felt like I was in school. I was bullied a lot. I took it personally. Again, I realize that, yes I do sound suspicious. I’m sorry if I inadvertently made an MRA-type argument. You don’t know how much I hate those misogynist bastards. Violence against women & girls, especially sex crimes, is a huge berserk button for me.
I just want to be a friend & a member. I’m sorry.
I rarely read the comments, just the articles and I’m sorry for the bad first impression. I’m also feel like goof for basically following the same post habits as trolls. I guess I’m a massive faux pas incarnate.
Julie: It’s OK. Check out the anti-boob roll on the sidebar, Google Feminism 101, look things up.
It’ll take time. We didn’t start out as a community, that evolved.
@Julie:
Alright, if you want to be a friend, you need to stop this right now. No snarky comments about we’re idiots or “unwise” for not accepting you immediately. No demands for the single act you could perform that would make everyone trust you. It doesn’t work like that.
Also, in case you didn’t notice, Aaliyah and Fade did give you the benefit of the doubt, and actually addressed what you said rather than dismissing you. If others were suspicious, then by now you know why.
LOL! Yes, katz, I GET IT! I’m sorry. No hard feelings, right?
Julie, I highly recommend this feminism 101 page. I suggest you don’t comment there until you’re familiar with feminism 101 things, but the 101 entries there are super helpful.
Really, Julie? You never read the comments and thought you cold wade right in?
^could
Also, I feel like anyone who’s actually lurked should already know that Hellkell has absolutely no patience for the well-meaning but clueless, and in fact has been far more patient than usual in this thread.
Thank you Aliyah & Fade.
I’m sorry that I didn’t thank you.
I’m really screwing up everywhere, am I?
Maybe I should look at this & laugh at myself.
I’m sorry if I can’t communicate well.
Thank you, Katz. That patience is about to fly away, what with the never reading the comments, but thought we’d be welcoming shit.
Also, Julie, giving people the benefit of doubt is nice. I do that myself very often. I wouldn’t say it’s always wise, though, as very often (though not always) our suspicions are confirmed.
Thank you Aaliyah. I’ll definitely check out Feminism 101. Thank you, so much. I want to give you a hug. But here’s a cyber one…*HUG*…Thank you! I will check that page out, right now!
Especially since we’ve had a troll in the past who often took that exact line. And, not that it’s relevant, who socked under a female first name that started with J. The “high school clique” line is also not a winner.
As did I.
Let’s see–wants to be coddled, won’t look up stuff on their own, slight fixation on Aaliyah. Yeah, lensman sounds about right.
@Julie
There’s no need to put yourself down for that. I’ve screwed up in feminist communities before as well. It happens, and so long as you’re willing to learn from your mistakes, you aren’t going to have many problems here.
Katz: which troll was that? They’re all starting to turn into a big ball of arglebargle in my head.
@katz:
Sorry for not including you, probably should have at least said “and others”. I was only looking at the first couple comments after Julie’s first.
@Aaliyah:
One of my first “blog” experiences was at Pharyngula. I forget exactly what I said, but I got pretty thoroughly chewed out by one of the regulars. Kinda drove me away from commenting there, but eventually I learned better.
Pay me 20 bucks, oh noble warrior, and you will have learned the final lesson from our Manboobian Instructors. Namely that, seriously, you shouldn’t give free dough to Fibi when it asks for it, because it’s liable to go use it on oil and nuts and cake.
But that’s not what ye ask, be it? Nay. Ye want to know how to take the Test.
Oh, I hear the whispers back there.
Aye then.
I’ll tell yell ye true ’nuff, the Test:
You, young Brave, must venture forth on a quest most perilous towards foes most pernicious in their insidious machinations. You must leave behind the gaze of our noble Cats in their watchful slumber and travel to places not even the vaunted Futrelle dare thread.
The portal lies yonder, and beyond those red tinged markers lie the vast wilds of the Internet. Terra Insanus. And out into that deep, dark, dread realm your must go, alone with neither cats nor kittens nor thread of YARN for sustance! No scented candle to lit your way! No chairs, hard, upon which to rest ye weary bum and when into that dread, far realm you have wandered, well then, young Brave…
To claim your name be a Certified Feminist(tm), then, then you must slay a comment upon a blog post most vile.
I see you scuff.
You think my trial easy? The simple doings of any young white knight early out of training? The aspirations of not a mighty debator or but degenerate mangina? Hah. Oh, the folly of youth.
You will gaze upon such horrors as to mark your soul forever, you will see the face of those which we scorn and ridicule and must armor yourself with contempt against the vile corruption of chaos incarnate. See no sluts, hear no hypergamy, do no evolutionary psychology, must be thy mantra in this time. For they will whisper their sweet lies and tempt you with the Red Pill. They have a idol of a lie, sanctified absurdities and congregate around altars raised to madmen preaching puddy-slaying and domestic abuse. And you will cry. Your tears, at first, will sustain you. Spur you on.
After that comes the hate. And the, perhaps, will soothe the wounds inflicted upon your soul, make the weary burden of the knowledge you now bear easier to sustain. But neither tears nor hate will be enough. Those are merely the symptoms of despair made manifest come against the walls of ignorance and the make-do stories of discredited science, worn like a mantle by eager savages proclaiming themselves the Alpha.
No. Your task is a different kind.
Slay a comment. Bring it back here, through that wasteland and the preponderous of links you have followed to get this far, and when you arrive, beaten, bitter, battered at this our hallowed doorway of Cats, Kittens and Cake recipes (… mhm, delicious), you must do what you think you no longer can. You must reach inside you, young Brave, and prove yourself true.
You must laugh. You must mock. You must find humor in madness and succor in insanity and make of your enemies most dire proclamations nothing more than a punchline. For what power does true stupidity hold other than the prize of being infinite, imminently and utterly laughable?
DO THIS ONE TASK, and you can claim yourself truely, one of us.
And then you must verily pay this speaker 20 bucks, usd, over paypall, details will surely follow in the vanguard of you hey! Hey! Fine. Fine. Jeesh.
… Bla bla bla, one of us, one of us.
Someone who started off on a very bad note. For about six months solid. And then did a 180 and wanted to be our best friend.
And once found a bra in the laundry.
Oooooooh, that one.
Well, that turned weird in a hurry! O_o
Good Fibinachi, I must protest.
Those wild lands are far too dangerous for one so inexperienced. Even Sir Pecunium would quickly find himself overwhelmed by its foul inhabitants. Laugh? Mock? Ha! Merely stepping past the borders into that land will inundate her in laughter twenty times as loud, mocking thirty times as viscious. Cries of slurs shall ring forth in droves! Hark the war-cries on the horizon, already they smell blood!
Send the newcomer to safer lands, I plead! Send her to fetch the armors of knowledge and data, equip her with swords forged with the threads of Feminism 101. Do this, or live in the knowlege that you have sent a woman to certain doom.
Angry, ranty, slurry doom.
If portents of certain doom be not enough to sway you, then heed my tale.
In the far reaches of the internet, there lies a wasteland of ice and cold. No warmth nor friendliness exists for outsiders, its denezins having shed their for and become as crystal. So lonely and barren is this land that foreigners must become as snow, lest they be outcast.
A fierce chill blows across the wastes, carrying their wails across the emptiness. For in order to reach the icy hearts of the peoples of that land (to no avail, I may add), the newcomers cry out “I’m not like those other ones” and “I think men’s rights is a more important issue,” sinking deeper into the drifts until they are consumed, enveloped by the snow that promised acceptance but never had any to give.
Thus merged with their surroundings, their bodies dissolve into snow flakes. If destruction does not sway you, good Fibinachi, then perhaps assimilation will.
trying to read the end of men on painkillers =
w
h
a
t
w
h
y
my brain is half melted
As someone who has worked with nurses, teachers, social workers, psychologists, social work aides, counselors in detox units — dudes are not discriminated against from entering these fields. I have never seen or heard about this. Men seem extremely welcomed when they are good at those jobs. They just can’t be creepy or sexist, because they’re working with women.
…And there’s the author’s problem.
Oh, and Julie, sorry that I assumed you’re a troll at first. I’d say why, but pretty much everyone has given my reasons for here.
Plus, my younger brother has used that. And he thinks that feminists argue over non-issues, and that MRAs have good points, and that the MRM is about anything other than hating women. But he’s still in high school, I’ll give him time.
I have read Feminism 101 and it really made me think. I have a lot to learn & to self-examine. Thank you for helping me. I realized that I had the wrong expectations about everything & I admit I was acting “entitled”. You don’t have to accept me, right away or trust me. I’m going to think about this thread & what transpired. Thank you for pointing out my foolishness. I will read & reread Melissa McEwan’s article. Thank you, guys. I deeply appreciate it.
No problem, Julie! ^_^
Oh, and thanks for the e-hug. =P
*ugh* “lensman”? Hell no!
Boy, I really have coincidentally echoed all of his B.S.
Oh, well! I’m happy I can be here. I’m sorry for being a dork. Thank you, guys.
I have a lot of self-reflection to do! : )
@Aalyah, You’re welcome! Is there a way to answer folk’s individual posts or do quotes & such? I can’t get the functions of the webboard thingy.
Blockquotes:
[blockquote]Text here[/bockquote]
Replace [ with <
Shows up like this:
Please don’t fail me for the first time, blockquote monster.
Thankies, Cthulhu’s Intern!
Believe me, I think if an MRA got a colonic, there would be nothing left! =D
It worked! *WOOHOO*!
Is there a chart of HTML stuff I can do to do other things, like bold-type, italics, editing, etc.?
@bahumbgi
“As someone who has worked with nurses, teachers, social workers, psychologists, social work aides, counselors in detox units — dudes are not discriminated against from entering these fields.”
I concur. I’ve worked in female dominated professions (ESL teaching, librarianship) and the relatively few men who enter, far from being discriminated against, rise to the top like cream. In my experience (seventies, eighties) guys in those professions tended to be seen as “exceptional” and “leadership material” and the women, who were the majority, for reasons I still don’t completely understand, often conceded them authority disproportionate to their experience or performance.
Ugh, sometimes I feel like such a tiresome old crone (“Back in MY day…”) Just take it for granted that everything I say or think is rooted in the experience of having been dealing with sexism for almost sixty years. I know a lot of stuff has changed, but maybe my brain is getting too brittle to see it.
well, i have not dealt with it for that long, but it still seems pretty freaking awful. i had to quit my first two jobs as a teenager because i was sexually harassed by the bosses.
First, a chart of HTML? Not per se, but I do have one I typed out since this question comes up often enough:
<i>italics</i> or <em>emphasis</em> (the later plays nice with screen readers, afaik the former does not)
<b>bold</b> or <strong>strong</strong> (ditto)
<del>
delete</del>Links go like this: <a href=”http://manboobz.com/2013/03/31/easter-on-the-spearhead-i-hope-that-our-own-errant-women-can-follow-mary-magdalenes-example/comment-page-6/#comment-280044″>this is where you asked about code</a> — or just paste the link, it isn’t pretty, but it’s functional.
Embedding is picky, use the http:// code, not https:// and put it on it’s own line. I skip a line to be sure, and it doesn’t seem to post multiple videos without a blank line between them. Eg:
Video 1
Video 2
Blockquotes, despite the monster, are fairly simple:
<blockquote>
</blockquote>
Second, as one of Pecunium’s Royal Assassins I must attest that the idea of taking on MRAs on their own turf is intimidating, at best. I doubt I have the wherewithal for that level of insulting vitriol. (I do confess that that glossary troll was a bit fun, invented Spot That Fallacy!! and Victorian time traveller because of him)
Bee — at least it’s a small sample size and thus could just be that they’re particularly disinclined to believe victims.
“If I search on Google it is very hard for me to tell whether a particular link is an abortion provider or a pro-life centre trying to stop me going to the correct place.”
Yeah my mother came home from church with a baby bottle to be filled with spare change for one of the later places. After discovering she thinks the morning after pill “prevents a life” and dropping it because Mother’s Day, she said she wasn’t surprised that I wasn’t going to help them.
But argh! So. Much. Fail.
…and now my father is yelling they he needs help. Since he called me specially, he must’ve broken windows, again. I gave up on windows when XP was phased out, what the bloody fuck makes him think I know how to fix win7?!
Hello and welcome, Julie. I’m a relatively new (and lately, sporadic) commenter myself and I know how daunting it can seem. One really good piece of advice I can offer is not to take it personally when people around here call you out on sloppy thinking. MRAs are just the adversary, it is slipshod and sloppy thinking that is the enemy.
There are a lot of smart folk here who’ve done some serious time thinking and studying about the many issues facing feminists of all stripes and persuasions, and any mistake you make can be painful, but it can also be illuminating. So try your best (I know this is difficult, but it’s really the only way to do it) to use it as a learning experience. The biggest thing you can do to earn trust is to own up without drama or histrionics when you’ve gotten caught out.
And never be afraid to ask a question instead of just making an assertion that you can’t back up with research and/or experience. An honest and earnest question will usually get you plenty of suggestions for reading and educating yourself on an issue, whereas making a boneheaded assertion (and we are all capable of them) will get people pushing back against it, not necessarily against you (though our trolls have certain rhetorical ‘tics’ that you accidentally fell into, thus setting off the trolldar).
And on the topic more directly, I push back hard against any “why not some other name than ‘feminism’?” nonsense (and I do think it is nonsense), mostly because I refuse to allow someone who is fundamentally hostile to the work of achieving a more just and egalitarian society to set the terms of the discussion (which is what so many anti-feminists and MRAs try to do – does anyone remember the screen name of Mr. “if you can’t refute this (steaming pile of nonsense), then just admit that we agree!” as a case in point for Julie?). Feminism has a long and established history of working on the part of the ‘abject other’ whether in straight gender terms or along color/ethnic/queer/trans/and other lines. I identify with the term feminism because I identify with the many people who have worked for equality and against normative identity pressures under its banner. Frankly, if someone believes in equality of opportunity regardless of identity, but isn’t comfortable with the ‘feminist’ label because of the mis-characterizations put forward by those who are fundamentally anti-egalitarian in their intentions, that’s their problem (and their need to educate themselves) not mine.
So, in addition to your welcome package, have an icepack to put on your lumps (it does hurt to take a thumping, but it provides a powerful disincentive, yes?) and stick around a while.
Thank you, Argenti Aertheri. That’s a great help. Perhaps the system I use with DeviantArt might work too. I’ll try, now….
bold type
italic
delete
Oops.
deleteunderline
I’ll also save the links you’ve provided.
Thank you, so much, gillyrosebee. You & the others have helped me so much.
As for Fibinachi & kirbywarp’s ideas, when a known MRA troll comes here, if I’m present, I’ll give him/her/hir what for!
Well, I’ll be signing-off for now. Thank you everybody! My utterly adorable niece & my equally adorable mom, my sister, are visiting. We’re all together for spaghetti dinner for Mom’s Day. I wish you all a very Happy Mother’s Day as well! See you guys later! =)
Why oh why, manboobzers ask themselves are a whole lot of men unhappy and angry?
And why oh why are some of those men either indifferent to or opposed to the constant promotion of feminism that is fucking everywhere all the fucking time?
Maybe, just maybe it’s because:
1 – Men are 3 to 4 times more likely to kill themselves than women.
(feminist response: “but women try to kill themselves, men are just so much more brutal and violent so they succeed more often.” = Minimising, shaming, victim blaming, to divert attention and support to feminists.)
1 a) – Men are 3 to 4 times more likely to be the victims of violence than women
(and whenever that’s brought up, feminists always say: “but women are all of DV victims!” (a LIE! – 40% of DV vics are men) And feminists always say “most men are victims of violence by other men” and “women are raped more than men” = Minimising, shaming, victim blaming to divert attention and support to feminists..)
b – Rape of men by women (being forced to penetrate) is not only whitewashed, but is REMOVED from official US FBI rape stats BY DEFINITION, because if it were put in, the figures for the two genders would be equal.
c – Rape of men in prison is a society wide joke.
3 – Men are screwed over in divorce, those men who haven’t married see how fucked over their male friends / relatives are post divorce.
(feminist response: “No, it’s women who are screwed in divorce! Women should get more!” Denial, shaming, to divert attention and support to feminists)
4 – Men are 95% of all the one the job deaths
(feminist response: “Men are lucky to be able to get those dirty, dangerous, difficult jobs, with the slightly higher pay!” – the cry of people who en masse don’t work in any of those jobs and wouldn’t do them.)
5 – Yes, the economy has been fucked by global corporatists and banksters. So, men are screwed for money and job security. (actually I have no idea how this is a new thing, because it’s been like that pretty much all my life, even when I was a kid all the nationalised indistries were being dismantled by Thatcher for her corporate cronies, so it’s just SNAFU, from my POV).
6 – Men are screwed by cuckolds + archaic laws that ignore new DNA technology in favour of assumptions of paternity developed in the Bronze Age. Societal-wide shaming ensues for not wanting to father a stranger’s child with a cheating partner.
There’s much, much more.
What all this adds up to is: Men have all kinds of problems aaaand no one gives a fuck about them. Not one single solitary fuck. We’re told to “man up” and fit into our assigned societal role already.
And there is pretty much nothing more fucking annoying when you are hip deep in shit to be endlessly told by feminsists in particualr and society in general that you have it soooo fucking great and you are soooo fucking priveleged and ooooh whatabouthewimminz!!?? and ooohhh “thousands of years of oppression”*!!??
Man up! Deadbeat! Pay for everything!
(*yeah, I’m yet to meet any living woman thousands of years old.)
That anyone here is even a tiny bit surprised that a whole load of men are sick to death of hearing about and from feminists? Just makes it crystal clear that none of you regard men as actual human beings.
That you imagine men feeling this way is going to go away?
Hahahahahahaha!!
You should probably read some history.
And I don’t mean gender studies revisionist “herstory”.
There will now follow pages of personal attacks and shaming attempts directed at me, coupled with loud and long attempts to deny and minimise men’s problems and bring all discussion back to women’s problems and why feminism is the answer to everything.
Exemplifying EXACTLY what I just said. Duh.
“Thank you, so much, gillyrosebee. You & the others have helped me so much.
As for Fibinachi & kirbywarp’s ideas, when a known MRA troll comes here, if I’m present, I’ll give him/her/hir what for!”
Another one for the chorus.
Safety in the crowd.
March in lockstep.
Tow the party line.
Be a good feminist.
Baa along in time.
lol!
“The list of growing jobs is heavy on nurturing professions, in which women, ironically, seem to benefit from old stereotypes and habits. Theoretically, there is no reason men should not be qualified.”
Of course this would have nothing at all to do with a society wide epidemic of child-abuse hysteria, in which it is men who are characterised as always being the abuser….
Despite the fact that statistically it is mothers who are most likely to abuse kids.
No, no, no. The fact that any man entering a “nuturing profession” will be constantly suspected as a monster can’t possibly have any influence on men’s absence from those professions.
/sarcasm
Oh good, The First Toe is arguing with himself again. That’s always fun.
“I’m sorry for the tantrum. I took it personally. I felt like I was in school. I was bullied a lot. I took it personally. Again, I realize that, yes I do sound suspicious. I’m sorry if I inadvertently made an MRA-type argument. You don’t know how much I hate those misogynist bastards. Violence against women & girls, especially sex crimes, is a huge berserk button for me.”
How about violence against men & boys? especially sex crimes?
Does that bother you at all?
Be honest now.
It’s ok for you to say you don’t give a shit.
This is manboobz – the chorus line here will back you up.
@serrana – yeah, don’t bother to listen to what I’m saying. You might be in danger of learning something.
/sarcasm
@The First Joe
And the MRM’s response?
1. Call for more funds to suicide prevention services? Nope. Volunteer on suicide hotlines? Nope. Make jokes about those who attempt suicide but do not succeed and belittle their experience as just “a cry for attention”? Check!
1a-c. Take actual steps to curb overall domestic violence or intimate partner violence? Nope. Work with rape/dv survivors? Nope. Belittle and joke about those who have been battered? Make rape jokes, including jokes about men being raped in prison? Threaten violence and rape against anyone who dares disagree with them? Check, check, and check!
2. ???
3. Work to focus on the needs and well being of children of divorced parents? Do actual work on equity in divorce proceedings? Nope (whining does not count as actual work).
4. Work to increase the efficacy of and adherence to workplace safety regulations? Nope. Work to pass legislation ensuring adequate health and disability insurance for those injured on the job? Nope. Work against (including strikes, boycotts, work slowdowns, etc.) companies with unfair and unsafe labor practices? Nope. Whine about how women have all the “good” jobs and call for more women to be killed on the job instead of lowering overall workplace injuries and deaths? Check again!
5. March, strike, whatever to protest the increasing profits of owners and rentiers? Nope. Whine, mope and complain about anyone who does march, strike, etc. for more just regulatory practices? Oh, absolutely check.
Quite simply, I call bullshit. Name one person on this site (you came here to complain, so tell us why this is the appropriate place for your whining) who says that. Provide me one quote not taken out of context and twisted to defy all reasonable interpretation.
My prediction: Nope. But certainly check on more fruitless whining and ranting as a form of ego masturbation.
Go take a nap and then call your mother when you are feeling a little less cranky.
@Joe:
1. Err, hyperbolizing the truth doesn’t make it false. Women attempt suicide more often, men succeed more often.
1a. Feminists do not say that only women are DV victims.
1c. Tell that to MRAs, who are all too happy to make prison rape jokes until feminists try to say that rape jokes aren’t funny. Then they froth about how feminists totally don’t complain about rape jokes against men. Except.. you know… feminists do not think that any rape jokes are ok or funny.
3. Feminists do not say that women deserve more than men in divorce overall.
4. Feminsts do not say that men are lucky to get more dangerous jobs. Feminists want women to have the same access to the same jobs, but men in generally won’t hire women because they don’t think the women can handle the work. Dangerous work conditions is an issue separate from gender.
5. A bad economy effects everyone equally. Dunno why this is even here…
6. In cases where judges rule that the man should provide for a child when he has been proven to not be the biological father, the judge is making the decision out of concern for the child. I don’t necessarily agree that this is always the right thing to do, but I’d have to look at actual cases.
In any case, MRA concerns over cuckolding are largely paranoia, as proven by that other troll who decided that 2.2 billion dollars a year for mandatory invasive medical procedures is totally justified. It barely ever happens, you completely discount a fathers love for his child even if the child isn’t genetically related, and it makes a mountain of a molehill to justifiy large and unnecessary actions.
If it’s all just a matter of
Then I’ll pass.
If only MRAs cared about them as well! Maybe they should focus on decreasing those numbers instead of calling said men to inflict those crimes on women.
You are a giant fucking dishonest turd of the highest order.
No one has said MEN are more violent, but their METHODS certainly are. If you can’t tell the difference, that’s on you. But I think you’re just twisting words for your sick satisfaction. Liar.
Everything you posted above was a disingenuous load.
Nah, what will follow is you calling disagreement a personal attack and shaming, and then get indignent when people get fed up with your insufferable gish gallop. But, you know, think what you want I guess.
Jesus, Joe, the straw feminists in your head are rowdy today. I hear they like tinfoil millinery, you should go make them nice hates.
^hat/hate potato/potahto
Now that’s a memorable and accurate description!
Welcome, Julie! :)
Welp, I’m a lurker here. The reason I’m on now is because I saw Julie, or Spuki Kitty on FSTDT. I’m used to go on FSTDT as Auggziliary.
Julie is certainly not a troll, she’s just a bit bizarre sometimes… So don’t be mean or too suspicious. She’s actually is a feminist from what I saw from her posts on FSTDT and doesn’t like MRAs or anything.
Also, Joe, Julie never said she didn’t care about men in those crimes, so I don’t see how that contradicts anything in her statement.
Proving my predictions, and continuing to do the exact same thing.
Yet somehow expecting different results? “an end to the ‘backlash’ ”
Good luck with that.
@Hellkell – you especially are Exhibit A of what I’m talking about.
@Kirby – yeah, here’s the thing when you say “feminists don’t say X”
When I said feminists say X?
I’ve actually read feminists say X.
Repeatedly.
Plenty of them on manboobz.
Many of whom are now rushing to deny / backpedal and weasel out of what they’ve said.
If you’ll notice, Joe, my prediction has come true instead. Checkmate, Joe! (insert SRS-style smug face here)
Hellkell – “You are a giant fucking dishonest turd of the highest order. ”
Kirby – “Nah, what will follow is you calling disagreement a personal attack and shaming”
Are you new here Kirby?
Lolz!
@kirby – apparently you fail reading comprehension.
Joe: unlike you, I can read and understand words. You ARE a dishonest turd, I know this because I can read.
So, I’m curious about how, if Julie claims not to have been reading the comments, she knows who lensman was. I guess that’s just me being UNWELCOMING and lacking in WISDOM.
(Protip – if you don’t want to sound like an MRA, avoid the random caps of drama.)
Joe, otoh, who openly demands pages worth of drama? Meh. Can’t be bothered.