Gullible Men’s Rights Redditors fooled by fake Jezebel article arguing that paternity fraud is “one way to break the rule of fathers.”
Some people are easily fooled.
This just in: Men’s Rights Activists are some of the most gullible nincompoops in the history of ever.
The latest evidence of this? The regulars on the Men’s Rights subreddit were fooled by an obviously fake “screenshot” of an article from Jezebel that had been altered to make it look like a Jezebel staff writer thinks that paternity fraud is justifiable as a way to fight patriarchy.
No, seriously, the Reddit MRAs actually thought that Anna North of Jezebel had written that “the ability to lie about your children’s parentage is one way to break the rule of fathers.”
Here’s the “screenshot.” And here’s the original thread, which has been deleted from the Men’s Rights subreddit but which is still up, just not reachable from the subreddit.
The irony in many of the comments is off the charts. “It’s Jezebel, of course they think this way,” writes Riesea. “Wow,” says actorsspace. “If Jezebel had a sense of humor, I would suspect them of trolling.”
Blueoak9 — what happened to the original eight? — is stunned that even the evil feminists would sink so low:
There are, of course, a few teensy clues that North’s supposed quote about “break[ing] the rule of fathers” is a big fat fake (as are some of the others in that “screenshot”).
One is that nobody at Jezebel writes or thinks like that.
And second, there’s the tiny fact THAT THE REAL ARTICLE IS UP ON JEZEBEL AND IT DOESN’T SAY ANY OF THAT SHIT AND ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GO READ IT FOR FUCK’S SAKE IT’S RIGHT HERE.
In fact, Anna North, the author of the Jezebel article, makes an argument that’s the exact opposite of the one attributed to her in the “screenshot.” Challenging a writer in the London Times who had argued that “the ability to pass a child off on a man was a potent female weapon,” North countered that such a stance was not only morally questionable but also pretty antifeminist:
I’d rather “make male claims to omnipotence absurd” by, say, being economically and politically equal to men — not by making them raise babies that aren’t theirs.
Now, you might wonder why exactly the Men’s Rights crowd on Reddit was reading a screenshot of a Jezebel article and not an actual Jezebel article. Well, that’s because the Men’s Rights subreddit has banned all direct links to Jezebel and other Gawker media sites because the MRAs are still mad about that Violentacrez thing.
Yes, the subreddit that links in its sidebar to a site — A Voice for Men — that not only has offered thousand dollar bounties for the personal information of its feminist enemies but that also carries an open call to firebomb courthouses and police stations in its “activism section” is still pig-biting mad about Gawker’s “doxing” of the man who helped to ruin the lives of countless teenage girls by founding and protecting Reddit’s Jailbait subreddit and dozens of other noxious subreddits.
And so someone was able to use this fact to exploit MRA ignorance and paranoia about feminism and make the inhabitants of the Men’s Rights subreddit look like fools.
Again.
Or some MRA with zero ethics wanted to make feminists look bad and failed utterly. I think this is less likely, but with MRAs, anything is possible.
When you’re done reading the original discussion of the fake article on the Men’s Rights subreddit, you can read the discussion there about how they were trolled. Including the comments from this person who thinks that “even if it’s a troll… so what? It’s still presenting an opinion that many a feminist has held.” Straw feminism is REAL! And this person (with dozens of upvotes) who thinks they should just ban all links to all feminist blogs because, hey, what’s the point in knowing anything at all about something you talk about constantly?
EDIT: Thanks to the AgainstMensRights subreddit, I was able to find the link to the original banned post, and so I’ve put the link (and some comments from the discussion) into the post above.
Posted on May 7, 2013, in a voice for men, antifeminism, doxing, dozens of upvotes, drama, evil women, gullibility, misogyny, MRA, reddit, straw feminists, TROOOLLLL!! and tagged antifeminism, men's rights, MRA, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 856 Comments.
Oh, you’re one of those idiots who think that because you don’t use “foul language,” your points are somehow more valid. Fuck off.
I’m not always right, but I’m more right than you.
You’re also a fart who thinks there’s two sides to everything. Protip: there isn’t. Why should I care about the other side when it’s demonstrably wrong?
And yes I take back what I said about how it’s harder for men to be childless in this society because apparently it’s such a huge insult to you all to even mention once about how men have it harder in certain things. So I’ll change it to the following:
“It’s hard for men and women to be childless in this society, but in different ways.”
There, happy?
I have a statistically better chance of winning the lottery than ever getting pregnant.
…no, it’s just not true, that’s all.
I mean, seriously? Name. ONE.
Name one area where men are disadvantaged over women.
Oh, boo-hoo. When you are systemically disadvantaged for millenia, get back to me. Until then, STFU.
Howard: they can’t have babies! It’s harder to be childless! Really!
“Oh, you’re one of those idiots who think that because you don’t use “foul language,” your points are somehow more valid. Fuck off.
I’m not always right, but I’m more right than you.”
“You’re also a fart who thinks there’s two sides to everything. Protip: there isn’t. Why should I care about the other side when it’s demonstrably wrong?”
Wow. Not only are you openly proud of the fact that you like to spew insults out like a toddler, but you think you could use your pottymouth to justify opinions that you don’t even bother to explain. I asked what’s wrong with my biological barriers example that hinder men, and all you respond with is “LOLOL you’re a fart”.
You know what: for the sake of my sanity, I’ll stop arguing with you. Though I would still love to continue to see what more creative insults you could come up with. You might want to ask my 7 year old brother – he learns new insults everyday ;)
(oh and I love my 7 year old brother. Such a sweetheart he is <3)
Dude, the point is, your biological barriers are bullshit. Men can get vasectomies a fuck of a lot easier than I could get a tubal.
You argue like a toddler who got into the whiskey.
“Name one area where men are disadvantaged over women.”
Conscription (not in Canada; overseas)
Titanic incident
Driver’s license payment
Divorce payment
Paternity fraud
Suicides
Though to be fair all of those issues are caused by men themselves. But that’s the problem – society tends to overlook the key idea that patriarchy is also oppressive against men.
All Moldybread has is a tone argument, a true sign of a troll with nothing substantive.
NO.
Conscription values men over women. Conscription means men in a warzone get guns, while women do not. Do you know what happens to women in a warzone?
Conscription means men are treated as the defenders of the realm, which is considered an honor.
Oh, right, women and children first.
Which is built on the idea that men can save themselves because women are children.
And in a system where women are infantilized, men are systematically advantaged.
Again, no.
I am unaware of any gendered way this is out of balance. Could you elucidate?
…NO. Alimony calculations only seem tilted because of the way marriages are arranged to benefit the man. They are gender neutral by design. Read up on them.
…which we all know is a huge issue? No.
…and women attempt suicide at greater rates than men. Seriously?
Your list of ways men are systematically disadvantaged is areally a list of ways men are systematically advantaged.
I suggest you dig deeper into all of these issues.
Oh, and bringing up the Titanic is also a sure sign of troll fail.
DL payments? that a new one, in States, everyone pays the same to get a DL. Insurance is another matter, but men, especially young ones, are statistically more likely to drive recklessly and get into accidents.
The draft is a thing like misandry that won’t be happening any time soon.
Suicides: men are more likely to use methods that work, like guns or hanging. Would you like women to change M.O.s to be all equal and shit?
Divorce payment: alimony is increasingly rare since more women work. Are you talking child support? No one gets rich off that shit, suck it up.
False paternity: not a thing to worry yourself over. Your personality would seem to be excellent BC on its own.
“Dude, the point is, your biological barriers are bullshit. Men can get vasectomies a fuck of a lot easier than I could get a tubal.”
Really? Not what I’ve noticed in Toronto.
As for tubal ligations, because women have so many contraceptive options available, tubal ligations are much less of a necessity, compared to vasectomies, where it’s either that or the condom.
“You argue like a toddler who got into the whiskey.”
3/10 for creativity. Keep trying please. :)
NO. Regulars get to keep score. Trolls do not.
0/10. Did not follow direction.
This has already been debunked. The Titanic was an outlier. Statistically, men have had a better chance of surviving maritime disasters. You can read all about it right on this blog, in fact. David’s already covered the study.
Why do the trolls use the smileys? It’s fucking creepy.
I see you know absolutely fuck-all why a woman would want a tubal over the other forms of BC, again, spoken like a dude with all the privilege in the world to be pig-ignorant.
“Your list of ways men are systematically disadvantaged is areally a list of ways men are systematically advantaged.”
Yes, “advantaged” in the patriarchal definition.
“Oh, and bringing up the Titanic is also a sure sign of troll fail.”
Indeed, because men who don’t want to die are perfectly happy to be forced to die and toss out their lives as if it doesn’t mean anything. The funny thing is I actually said that this double standard is caused by men themselves, yet you are too quick to label me as a troll. Hmmm… maybe you think that the Titanic incident is caused by women? ;)
“Suicides: men are more likely to use methods that work, like guns or hanging. Would you like women to change M.O.s to be all equal and shit?”
What? So you think the best solution to solve the double standard is for women to use M.O.’s to kill themselves? You fucking misogynist!
Can you read? Like, at all?
Do you even know what an M.O. is?
“I see you know absolutely fuck-all why a woman would want a tubal over the other forms of BC, again, spoken like a dude with all the privilege in the world to be pig-ignorant.”
yawwwwwnnnnnnn again you’re resorting to childish attacks as opposed to explaining your reasoning.
No. Advantaged, as in “made full citizens while women are not.” Advantaged as in Benifitting, not being hurt by.
Do you think many men have died because of “women and children first”?
“All men have are the condom,”
How do you live on a planet where being in a consensual, trusting relationship is not an option? My sexual partners and me are PARTNERS, we communicate beforehand whether we intend to procreate or not, and then we, TOGETHER, communicate how to forestall procreation.
I don’t want to sound harsh, but “All men have are the condom” feels a bit like rape logic, where you impose your sexual needs on another person, whether through violence, persuasion, alcohol and whatnot.
I don’t understand you. Surely you’re not advocating rape – but everything else is based on communication. I always thought that all the means of contraception are a big pool of options, and my female partners have the most say in this because options for women are frequently invasive and difficult to use.
Am I wrong?
Why should I waste time educating you? You’ve already proven you can’t comprehend what you read.
” The funny thing is I actually said that this double standard is caused by men themselves, ”
I hope you realize that “the titanic incident” is an isolated incident, it is not a “thing”. It happened two or three times in modern nautical history. You do realize that isolated incidents do not prove prevalent biases, yes?
There is a post on this blog about the Titanic nonsense,
Awww, you need this translated into Politeese before you’ll respond?
Very well.
“My dear chap, don’t you understand that women’s control over their own bodies is constantly under assault from the Right? Don’t you see that in Canada? Is this somehow invisible to you? Dear sir, there are many, nay, a multitude of reasons why women might think that other forms of birth control will be denied them in the future. I know that Canada, your home and native land, is somewhat to the left, but even there, doctors are still petitioning your federal government to cover birth control because in places like the Northwest territories many women fall through the cracks. (linkie)”
Was that polite enough for you?
(asshole!)
No thank you. I don’t want to be “educated” by someone who can only prove their “point” by spewing insults out like a toddler. I guess I should take back what I said about you providing me with reasoning.
“Do you even know what an M.O. is?”
Aw geez, my sincere apologies. I thought for a second you meant that to be equal, you think women should use the same tactics as men (the shooting and hanging)
You should teach me how you learned how to read by just memorizing abbreviations.
No, you exquisite dipshit, I asked if YOU thought women should use the same methods as men to equal.
“When MRAs get all uppity about this paternity stuff it just feels like an insult not only to women (of course), but also to all those kids who have loving, wonderful parents…adopted or foster parents. Sorry for all the parenthesis, jeez I just realized how much I do that!”
Yeah right, it’s “uppity” to care about whether you’ve been lied and decieved.
It’s “uppity” to want to know the truth about the most important relationships in your life.
It’s “uppity” to not want to invest all your time, effort and love in a lie.
But only if you’re a man, of course.
If it’s a woman who is lied to, by e.g. a cheating man, that’s just horrifying, of course.
^more sarcasm.
And there is NO comparison at all between adoption and fostering vs. cuckolding.
None. These things are NOT the same. Not even a little bit.
People who adopt or foster have given fully-informed consent.
Men who are cuckolded cannot give true consent to be a parent, because: they are not fully-informed. They are having the crime of fraud commited against them.
All the femsplaining and man-shaming and whattaboutthechildrennn going on in this thread, is a massive Team Woman smokescreen to divert attention from the fact that Paternity Fraud means a woman has lied, to steal the better part of a man’s effort, love and life from him. It’s a heinous crime.
If men had the biological capability to do this, I guarantee there’d be serious jail time to be served for the crime, but no, only women can commit this crime, so society hand waves it away. Disgusting.
And I mean that asshole thing very seriously. You, a man, are complaining that comparatively, in these areas, women have it easy. Women who have shared things about how very not easy they have it in these areas.
And you are attacking women who are sharing these things.
That is really, really not polite at all. This is personal and real to them. It is theoretical to you.
That is the opposite of polite. Stop acting like hellkell started it. You got personal first, you just acted like you were being polite while sticking the knife in.
Yeah, if it were a thing that happened with any regularity.
…because we live in a matriarchy where women get whatever they want.
Good news about that Plan B thing we’ve been fighting about for forever now, guys! It turns out the power was in us all along!
Oh, wait, no. Still not available.
(rollseyes)
This is getting funnier and funnier to me as the thread goes on.
Howard: WORD and thank you. I love to hear this knob philosophize when yeah, I’ll probably end up with the permanent BC I’ve always wanted after 10-odd years of trying, but only because it looks like my uterus MAY BE TRYING TO KILL ME.
Guys like Breadmold can fuck off forever.
Holy Jeebus
I read most of this thread, with the exception of anything from Brz because he makes no sense. I think everyone’s take down of mouldy’s points have been great. Also Moldy? No one said that men can’t get paternity tests. They can get them and no one is stopping them. As for mandatory ones? Eff that. Paternity testing is an individual decision for individual families to make for themselves. Also wtf are you on about it being harder for men to not have children? What the eff?? Seriously what reality do you live in because I want to go live there. The cf men I know are congratulated for “escaping” nagging wives and parental responsibility while I am accused of “being broken” for my choice to not have children. Do you think it feels fucking NICE to have people accuse you of being “crazy” or accusing my parents of abusing me all because I don’t want kids? Seriously? Have you talked to any women in real life who don’t want children? Have you ever actually listened to the words they say?
You spout veiled MRA points and then get all pissy when it is pointed out to you. Well if it quacks like a duck, it’s probably a damn duck. You may not identify as an MRA (thank the gods) and I think there is hope for you yet, but you have absorbed some shitty ideas that need some rethinking on your part. I suggest maybe going to think about rather than doubling down.
Look, I’m not saying that men ALWAYS have it worse when it comes to contraception. Yes there are social stigmas that exist that keep women from being childless. However, the fewer contraceptive options for men DO play a factor. Maybe a small factor, but a factor nonetheless.
backpedal harder, monkey.
Welp. How, exactly, does it disadvantage men?
Is it difficult for them to access?
Do the options currently available not work for them?
Is spermjacking a big old problem?
…are men subject to widespread disapproval for using the options available to them?
“backpedal harder, monkey.”
5/10 for creativity. My 7 year old brother could think of a more clever insult than “monkey”.
“Welp. How, exactly, does it disadvantage men?
Is it difficult for them to access?
Do the options currently available not work for them?
Is spermjacking a big old problem?”
It’s because 1) We have fewer contraceptive options, and 2) vasectomy is not easy to get.
And spermjacking? Really? Yes it does happen (albeit VERY rarely), but to insinuate that I’m on par with the MRA’s delusion is just plain insulting.
INB4 shitfest of people getting offended at me for saying that spermjacking occurs very rarely as opposed to not occurring at all.
Do the current options not work for you?
Remember, you don’t score us, we score you. Good thing your tenure here will be much like life: nasty, brutish, and short.
INB4 only works as an inoculation when you’re about to be accused of something untrue, you know.
warning at the beginning: This incredibly long comment is mostly me responding to moldy, so people-not-moldy, feel free to skim. Oh, and I also responded to you, too, Joe
Okay, now how common is men raising children that aren’t theirs? 1 in 5? Is this even something that happens often, or just a misogynistic trope?
Also, what hrovitnir said:
I don’t get it either. I mean, I can see why some people would get it, but I’d be worried about my hypothetical kids getting my medical problems, even though I’m not sure if their hereditary.
Yeah, geocentric is also in the dicitonary but I don’t see people using that to argue that the sun revolves around the earth.
Case closed, you fail.
Um, I feel very weird about this because the situation is normally reversed, but it strikes me as objectifying to look at the “superiority” of one body part based on how much sexual pleasure it brings someone else.
And how often does this happen…? Is it anywhere near as common? And also, is it unreasonable for straight cis women to assume their partners are cheating on them? What kind of legal government tests can we get to make sure no one is?!
And they must be mandatory, because otherwise the men would say “I WOULD NEVER CHEAT ON YOU, HONEY!!?!!!”
Wow.
Where do you even start on this?
Rape is bad for women (and men, because men can be raped) because it violates their bodily autonomy and treats them like an object.
Rape is bad for men because they might wind up raising a kid that’s not theirs
Citation needed.
And no, don’t respond with “Give away all your stuff and see for yourself!”
I’m talking about a real link. To a scientific, peer reviewed study
You could also argue that being wary of rape = protecting your bodily autonomy.
But imagine if feminists tried to get legally mandate background checks on dates
MRAs: WAAAAAHH!!!! EVIL HARPIES THINK ALL MEN ARE VIOLENT RAPING SCUMBAG THUG MANGINAS!!!
However, legally mandated paternity tests
MRAs: Well, women cheat so it’s okay
Yeah
Men watching out for women cheating on him DOES NOT EQUAL women suspicious of rape
Here’s out it works
Men watching out for women cheating on him = women watching out for men cheating on her
woman watching out for potential rapist = men watching out for potential rapist
Okay, so you can request a paternity test if you ever have kids. I… don’t see the problem here.
Has brz ever used “big daddy” before? This threw me off…
Okay, what I want to do is know why US citizens are buying people’s addresses….?
Okay, I was giving breadmold the benefit of the doubt until this line. Now, I call troll
Okay, how about this. You know how there have been studies that prove the prevalence of rape, and you can analyze media and attitudes to find rape culture? How about you show me those studies and media analyses for paternity fraud.
Aren’t US jails full enough as it is?
YOU HAVE FAILED TO PROVE THAT PATERNITY FRAUD IS EVEN AN ISSUE
No, it is not.
But no where near as hard as it is to get your tubes tied…
Here’s what I don’t get.
Okay, say a straight, cis couple are having sex regularly. They are SUPER PROTECTIVE in terms of birth control.
Women says “Honey, I’m pregnant, and I want to keep the baby”
Man says (if he doesn’t want to be a father) “AAAUUUUUGH How’d that happen?! We were so safe?!?”
Woman: *shrug* (no remember that she is evilly lying and got pregnant by another guy in this highly unlikely MRA situation)
Man: ALREADY HAS THE OPTION TO ASK FOR A PATERNITY TEST WHEN THE BABY IS BORN
Lol, zie brought up the titanic
….
…
Plz prove these things exist. I know I already mentioned this earlier in my comment, but I’m saying it again just in case you’re skimming.
Thank you for telling women what is necesary to do with their bodies
I’m just going to point out that condoms are cheap, easy to get, and do not mess with your hormones or body like lots of female contraceptive means.
“Remember, you don’t score us, we score you. Good thing your tenure here will be much like life: nasty, brutish, and short.”
8/10. Wow! So nice to see that bobbing your head up and down isn’t the highest form of intelligence you can do. Next time you might want to add “poopiehead” at the end of your insults just to sound more mature :)
You, um, did notice I asked how this disadvantages men. Do those fewer options somehow not work? Note that women have a greater variety of options is because lots of those options literally do not work for some women.
Vasectomy is not easy to get?
Really? In Toronto?
No. Once again, you have failed to follow direction.
-5/10.
This is a failing grade.
breadmold:
Fuck you very much.
Now that I’ve done with the introductory pleasantries, let’s move on to the meat of the matter.
Where is the child in this? You (because you were, “decieved”, are going to 1: sever the ties of the child to it’s mother, and 2: assert ownership of a child to whom you are not related.
That’s fucked up. That’s a nasty as all fuck revenge fantasy, and the kid is your pawn in “getting back at the bitch, and the bastard she was fucking.”
Not on.
Speaking of which, feminism is about gender equality, correct? So if it’s possible to deceive a father into paying a child that isn’t his but impossible to deceive a mother into paying a child that isn’t hers, due to how the childbirth process works, doesn’t this double standard bother you? So in a way, paternity test (although not a men’s right issue) helps to compensate for the inequality, almost like how women’s only hours helps to compensate for the gender differences in gym accessibility
Nope. Feminism is about treating women as people. We don’t assume a man lies about things, why should you codify the idea that women (across the board) lie about who the father is?
A woman has the right to suspect that the man she first dates with may be a potential rapist, just as much as a man has the right to suspect that his GF’s newborn child may not be his. I’m not going to get into a gender olympics here to say which one is worse, but if a woman has the right to be paranoid, so should men. Of course, this is not to say that paternity fraud is a woman’s issue (it isn’t).”
The fuck you aren’t… you’re, “just postulating”, right?
No. You just said it’s reasonable to assume that one’s partner is lying about everything. Bullshit.
And you compared it to how women have to be concerned that men they don’t know might rape them. Do you see a difference? No?
Why the hell not. Because (even setting aside the inanity of your position) there is a fundamental difference between, “someone I just met might rape me” and “someone I’m involved with is pregnant.”.
Seriously, why do you want to put forth that idea of fundamental dishonesty as the baseline for understanding.
Why do you think your lover is likely to cheat on you? Seriously, what makes you think that is so likely that paternity tests ought to be seen as a normal thing for people to want?
Good day to you.
I was reading from the bottom of the comment backwards, so when I reached this part I was all “oh, mannnnn!!!!!”
:P
Breadmold: If I’m “selfish” for asking to keep the child to myself
Yep. Your ire is that, “it’s not my child”, but you won’t let anyone else have it either. Fuck that. Kids have needs, and having a fuckwit who is taking them away from their other parent, from an indignant need for revenge is selfish, and cruel, and bespeaks a poor parent.
How about you COMMUNICATE to the child on how his mother deceived both of you, and ask him/her whether or not s/he’s comfortable to live with the lie and would like to stay living with his/her mother?
Unh hunh… “Dear, mommy lied to you about who your daddy is, and that was wrong wasn’t it?”
You gonna add that you aren’t daddy? How do you think that goes over? Tell the kid they have a father they don’t know, that you aren’t their father, and that mommy is so bad you (not their father) are going to keep them.
Good plan.
This is ASSUMING that the mother lied (which you even admitted to) and NOT due to other issues like i.e. being raped.
Where does this come from? Now she gets raped, keeps it a secret. End ups pregnant and still keeps it a secret. You whip out the paternity test and discover you aren’t the father and… all is forgiven?
Or you go around town looking to get cheek swabs from every dude around so you can sue him for all the money you will ever spend on the child?
Because you trust her, completely when she explains what happened.
Where did I say that paternity fraud victims can just “scream and yell and trample”?
That would be where you take the child, and divorce the mother and sue the biological father (assuming you know who he is. I guess that comes out in the divorce).
Wow, and you call them sociopaths. I NEVER said that the father should place the non-biological child secondary to his own interests.
Non-biological secondary child? Way to show affection.
And that whole, “take the child and divorce the mother and sue the father thing,” doesn’t show much attention to the interests of the child.
Because it’s totes a feminist position that all women are liars about who the father is, and we need to test all babies to prove they aren’t.
Nope. You are being misogynist.
Look, hrovitnir, you’re taking this way too personally.
I don’t think so. I think you have stuffed your head up your ass with your personal insecurities, and have let those ridiculous fears take over your ability to reason.
The funny thing is, even if that is true, it’s mostly the other man (the biological father) that is to blame.
Way to go… blame her for being a cheating cheater who lies, and say she’s not responsible for her actions. A misogynistic Double Header.
It takes two to have a child, and the biological father was the one who chose to run away from his own child to become a deadbeat.
What? I thought she was decieving the life-partner? Now it was his nefarious plan to trick her, by “running away”, instead of doing the honorable thing and stealing her from her partner?
Bored now.
THANKS you Fade. I have to say that so far you’re one of the only people on this thread that’s taking your time to explain your points across as opposed to acting like a toddler and/or beating your chests to prove that you are right. Now for my response:
“Okay, now how common is men raising children that aren’t theirs? 1 in 5? Is this even something that happens often, or just a misogynistic trope?”
Paternity fraud is uncommon, and I won’t deny it, but just because it’s uncommon doesn’t mean that we should ignore it.
“Rape is bad for women (and men, because men can be raped) because it violates their bodily autonomy and treats them like an object.
Rape is bad for men because they might wind up raising a kid that’s not theirs”
Well no shit it’s bad for women. I can name 100 ways why. But this is just one of the ways that it’s bad for men. Another example of how patriarchy is bad for men.
“You could also argue that being wary of rape = protecting your bodily autonomy.”
And I can argue that being wary of paternity fraud = protecting 18+ years of your life.
“Okay, I was giving breadmold the benefit of the doubt until this line. Now, I call troll
Okay, how about this. You know how there have been studies that prove the prevalence of rape, and you can analyze media and attitudes to find rape culture? How about you show me those studies and media analyses for paternity fraud.”
Apologism = someone who find ways to mitigate the crime. How did culture get in the picture?
“Here’s what I don’t get.
Okay, say a straight, cis couple are having sex regularly. They are SUPER PROTECTIVE in terms of birth control.
Women says “Honey, I’m pregnant, and I want to keep the baby”
Man says (if he doesn’t want to be a father) “AAAUUUUUGH How’d that happen?! We were so safe?!?”
Woman: *shrug* (no remember that she is evilly lying and got pregnant by another guy in this highly unlikely MRA situation)
Man: ALREADY HAS THE OPTION TO ASK FOR A PATERNITY TEST WHEN THE BABY IS BORN”
Yes it happens, but does it happen commonly? Obviously not. But the fact that it does happen once in a while is enough to warrant this to be an important issue to discuss about. And paternity tests is something that can easily be taken away. Look at France, for instance.
“Thank you for telling women what is necesary to do with their bodies”
…except nowhere did I say that I’m FORCING women to use X rather than Y. Please show me where I said this.
Look, I’ll end with this: women have a lot of problems to deal with in this society, I agree. But I won’t pretend, not even for one second, that men have issues to deal with as well. The systemic patriarchy is oppressive to both of us, not just to women.
Right, nobody has been actually dealing with your arguments up till now. Sure.
Nope.
Howard: we were dealing with his “arguments,” but using naughty words, so it doesn’t count to troll boy.
Gee, is that the sound of a goalpost shifting that I hear? Hmmm, hmm, hmm.
Drew: I’m circ’d and wished I wasn’t – bc women generally find uncut men to be more easy table. How is that fact “body shaming?” That’s an objective fact – more girth = more happiness.
I saw the correction. Got sources for the assertion about, “more pleasurable”?
Also, uncircumcised has nothing to do with penile size. Moreover, penile size isn’t directly related to “good in bed”.
Related to the uncut men issue, would pointing out that a smaller man is less satisfying generally be body shaming?
Yes, and it’s bullshit. Glad I could clear that up for you.
breadmold: Also, most people in this thread aren’t understanding the key fact that NONE of us ever said that women are cheaters or are conspirators.
Yes, you did. A paternity test is done to ascertain the who the father of a child is. Asserting that one is needed implies the paternity is in question. For it to be in question there must be a reason for doubt.
Unless there is a known condition (lots of partners, a rape, a discovered infidelity) then that doubt is because the father presumes the mother to be lying.
If it’s a thing we do, across the board; then the underlying assumption is, “women lie”.
So do you agree with paternity tests or not? Do you think they should be made available for men?
They are available.
Too bad it’s harder for men to be childless in this society than it is for women to be childless.
Wrong again.
Vasectomy, condoms, spermicides, communication, abstinence, non-piv (and the use of condoms for activities which might put sperm near the vaginal opening).
Men have all those options.
And there’s also the paternity fraud. It’s easy to force a man to be a father of a child that isn’t his (even if he chooses to be childless),
No. It’s not. (see above, re all the options for non-pregnancy).
I am hellkell and I am always right. Let me beat my chest and use foul language to show you how much I am right.
Do I see someone with issues? Perhaps with a past presence on manbooobz?
Hilarious typo. Thank you.
Sure, we’ll agree there’s backlash.
But we aren’t changing the name from feminism until people stop getting upset when we help the people who are actually being systematically harmed first.
…can we agree on that?
Because it’s sort of central.
Now please link to the studies that prove how often it happens.
Yeah… my point was looking at it through a “WHAT ABOUT TEH MENZ*” lens is SUPER SKEEVY.
*non- rape survivor men, since men can be raped
Rape apologism ties into rape culture. There is no paternity fraud culture. You have yet to prove there is any attitude that supports women forcing men to raise children that aren’t theirs.
No one is saying men don’t have issues, we’re saying you have yet to prove that paternity fraud is one that even happens more than what? 1 out of 100? 1 out of 1000? times.
Here’s the thing I don’t get.
Say I don’t want kids (also say I’m a cis man, b/c right now I’m a cis woman). Say my girlfriend says she is pregnant. If she’s planning on keeping the baby, I can get a paternity test to make sure i’m the dad, since I’m so opposed to having kids
No wasting 18 years of life or w/e.
Say I do want kids. My girlfriend gets pregnant. She wants to keep the baby, and I’m like “cool beans, I want to be a dad!”
I find out later that the kid is not mine.
Does that negate that I wanted kids at the beginning? And that I presumably had a fun relationship with our kids for the first 18 years.
If you’ve got a good relationship out of it, how is it a waste? I mean, someone cheating on you is shitty, but when you look back at your time with your kids are you gonna blame them for it? Or keep your relationship the same?
Brz: Those laws are not for, “dating sites”. They are for marriage agencies. If you want to set up a chat site, nothing in that applies.
Definitely more important than discussing the rampant exploitation of children that goes on in this country, illustrated most recently by the arrest of three men in Cleveland who raped and tortured at least three young women for ten years before getting caught, ignored by the police even though neighbors have been calling them for years after seeing things like naked women being led around the yard on leashes. Yes, let’s keep discussing the very important issue of spermjacking and paternity fraud instead.
Ooooooooh. Could it be someone really boring who’s name begins with a B? ‘Cause we already went round and round with him on this very subject.
Again with the goalpost shifts.
(also, total misunderstanding of what the word mitigate means? That or apologism. One or the other)
Zie’ll probably engage w/ me until they figure out I think they’re full of shit, then they’ll whine about how I’m a five year old or w/e using toddler language
Here’s what makes me honestly mad
The troll is whining about how hard it is for (presumably cis) men to be childless in society. But if I get pregnant by accident, there are laws in my state trying to force me to keep the fetus. There are no laws like that for men.
A (cis) man can walk away. The worst thing that happens: mother wants child support, which is based on income.
A cis woman cannot just walk away, because the potential-child is INSIDE HER BODY
And I posted earlier about how a third of child support orders are in arrears/unpaid. Even if you do file for child support there’s a pretty good chance the man finds a way to evade it.
It is a great blog, but the comment section is just a club for the hive of dumb bitches. Just ignore it, they will make you hate feminism with their stupidity.
…
*sigh*
“bitches”?
I… I honestly don’t know where to start with this.
When we disagree on things the trolls laugh at our hivemind falling apart, when we agree on things we’re a hive of bitches. I guess there’s no pleasing some people.
PS, you’d better be a woman, because my opinions of men using “bitches” is “I hate it”