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Roosh’s Return of Kings blog: Tamerlan Tsarnaev had an American wife, therefore American women want to be beaten

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Leave it to Roosh V’s Return of Kings blog to publish the most reprehensible thing I’ve yet seen related to the Boston Marathon bombing.

In a post with the lovely title “The American Woman Has Hit An All-Time Low,” guest blogger Samseau offers some thoughts – that is to say, wild, unsupported speculation – about the widow of bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev, and uses that as evidence in a case against American women as a whole, declaring her “a profound marker in the decline of the American woman.”

Samseau bases much of his, er, theorizing on the facts that Tsarnaev was a Muslim immigrant while his widow, Katherine Tsarnaev, nee Russell, was “common American female stock.”

According to most accounts, the two met in a nightclub, and Samseau – his head filled with PUA fever dreams — imagines the scenario:

Although it is unclear how he seduced her, my guess is that he got her with some Muslim game: intimidating gazes, ramrod straight stances, bottle service, congregating with all of the other jacked immigrants in the nightclub with their top two shirt buttons undone, and then inviting girls back to his table to talk.

Most likely they both frequented the same nightclubs when he noticed her, and made a few attempts to get her back to his place before he went for the close. Given that she was an American woman, she put out right away as she did for so many other men in her freshman and sophmore years.

Wouldn’t you hit it? I know I would.

Samseau is somehow able to conjure all this up from the one widely reported fact that the two met in a nightclub.

But it’s what he manages to conjure up from the reports that Tamerlan Tsarnaev physically abused his wife that really takes Samseau’s post over the top. (TRIGGER WARNING in what follows for Samseau’s strange apologia for domestic violence against women.)

Noting that Tsarnaev was arrested for domestic violence against another girlfriend around the time Katherine Russell started dating him, Samseau concludes that “Katherine knew this guy was a piece of shit from the get-go, but most likely willfully ignored it in favor of her lusts.”

Oh, but Samseau is just getting started. He then posits that because

Katherine was a young American woman, she most likely did not see Tsarnaev, or any man she was banging, as anything beyond fun. But because Tsarnaev was a violent man, using force, coercion, and beatings to keep her from straying. Any hint of infidelity resulted in some kind of punishment for Katherine.

Samseau, while registering polite disdain towards Tsarnaev’s alleged violence towards his wife, also seems to regard it as something of a necessity:

I am not surprised that it took the violence of Tsarnaev’s level to keep a young and beautiful girlfriend in Boston. I know that hookup culture well, and girls actively dump and cheat on men whenever they so please. Men are more likely to be pump and dumped than the women are.

Yes, that’s right, he’s arguing that the only way to keep young and beautiful American women from cheating is to beat them. Adding insult to injury — quite literally — Samseau goes on to argue that this is how American women secretly like it.

Thus we reach the disturbing conclusion of this story – Katherine was not a victim, she was not a special case, she was an ordinary American woman who represented her culture in every way, and that is precisely why she betrayed it. She was given everything a woman could want in life, and instead she choose to find something, someone – anyone – who could take it away from her. Unsatisfied with her life of being catered on beck and call, of whim and notion, she was drawn to the first man who would remove it all and place chains around her – even if that man hated the country who raised her. …

And since Katherine was nothing more than an “All-American girl,” it is reasonable to conclude that most American women are exactly like Katherine – unhappy with their spoiled lives who would gladly give it up just for a chance to be enthralled by a powerful man. The women of this country have no more loyalty to the land that raised them, but instead are opportunists looking for a chance to submit in pleasure.

Samseau follows this appalling victim-blaming bullshit with a version of the standard-issue Nice Guy ™ Lament:

Until that opportunity comes, they will hate on all men who try to be anything good towards them, and act out against them – by denying them sex and relationships, by throwing them in jail with trumped up charges, by stealing their money under the pretense of marriage – until they are forced to stop. And it doesn’t take much to stop them – even a welfare bum like Tsarnaev could do it.

Oh, but Samseau isn’t exactly recommending that American men beat their girlfriends – because this would be bad for them. For the men, that is.

Now, I do not think any man should go around beating women just so he can keep them. This is obviously a shitty, destructive way to live that will only cause you more pain and unhappiness in the long run. Any woman that requires beatdowns in order to remain faithful is a garbage woman who will never make you happy. And yet with the extreme shortage of eligible American women, what is a good American man supposed to do?

Samseau ends his post with a suggestion that American men leave the country to some foreign paradise where women aren’t so, well, American. Which is, I suppose, a better alternative than advising men to stick around and beat up women. Be thankful for small mercies, I guess.

Posted on April 30, 2013, in a woman is always to blame, alpha asshole cock carousel, alpha males, bad boys, beta males, domestic violence, excusing abuse, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, nice guys, playing the victim, PUA, rhymes with roosh, trigger warning, western women suck, whaaaaa? and tagged , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 193 Comments.

  1. BOC, if they did, they’ll answer you.

  2. Well, that article was uniquely horrible in the way only Roosh and his followers can be. It doesn’t matter how much you think a group of people sucks (or even if they do suck). If you write something like this, or agree with it, you suck more. I really don’t have anything else to say other than that.

    Oh, and Aaliyah, I wish you the best with your situation. I can only imagine how difficult it must be.

  3. Kitty withdrawal/deprivation is a horrible thing. When Mum and I stayed in London years ago, we used to detour to a street that had All The Kitties on our way to do shopping. (Tachbrook St, Pimlico, for anyone who knows the area.)

    OT Louis has written (well, dictated) a blog post! While petting a kitty! Talents, he haz them.

    http://vignettesacrosstheveil.wordpress.com/2013/05/01/milords-musings/

  4. @A Bag of Cats:

    That is literally the most confusing article on any topic I have ever, ever read.

    Nothing makes sense any more.

    I know they are writing in English, and I understand the individual words they use but they string them together in sentences that seem to crash against any form of understanding I have of the way the world works and the way words work and they way meaning is transferred from one being to another.

    Does not compute.

    Just… terror. Incomprehension. The wailing, gnashing sounds of a thousand thousand spoons banging together. Cats and dogs living together. Rain of frogs. Fnord.

    The comments are just as bloody confusing. Nominally engaged in some sort of communication but it’s like they’re speaking in codes, or using paths of logic to eldritch, arcane and obscene that I find the theocratic underpinnings to be absolutely mindboggling. I don’t use the word “Esoteric” a lot, but that is esoteric.

    I mean, what the hell is the point there? What path of thought am I supposed to glean from this incomprehensible blathering? That someone slept with someone else, okay, right, and then he bragged about it, okay, and a third and fourth person commented and this is his sly, on the low, snap at the guy who commented?

    Is that it? What?

    Or is it an enumeration of the flaws in attempting to be one thing while saying another and believing a third and actively living in a community that practices a fourth and wanting to become a fifth thing altogether? Because if that’s the rundown, if that’s what it really is saying, then I can say the same thing in far, far fewer words:

    “Your narcissistic impulse to want the world to conform to your beliefs does nothing but aggravate you when it does not”

    Is it a sly show of one up manship about how you can get a christian virgin and how you can sleep with christian virgins and how that’s a great thing? Okay, uh, setting aside how fucking confusing it is to want christian virgins and hating sluts but banging on about banging virgins and see how confusing that gets, then, what?

    And the comments. The comments are just endless quotes of scripture from multiple sources and people saying “Beta” and “gamma” and “cats” and “crazy” as if the words mean something without a damn context.

    THIS IS HELL. I AM LOOKING AT HELL. THIS IS THE ABYSS I HAVE STARED INTO FOR TOO LONG AND SO GOD HELP ME, I CANNOT UNSTARE.

    I’ve acid flashbacks with more narrative coherence than this! I’ve stayed awake for 50 hours as part of obsence, idiotic biology experiments and at the end had shots of tequila and the notes I wrote to myself as I stared up into an unceasing sky after days and days of not sleeping and drunk made more sense, makes more sense, than this. That. Argh.

    I can’t even formulate a sentence without just going aaaargh.

    Arrrgh.

    You cannot lead from the bottom of the pedestal. Christian men need to realize that. And God has put us as leaders As much as you can respect the “bag of cats” that is woman, you can respect them, but don’t make them out to be more than the “weaker sex.”

    THIS? This at least makes sense and has a point. Women are weak and men are manly and take the red pill to level up and gain more pussy or something.

    How about this?

    Anything or anyone who breaks us out of that dogmatic slumber — in this case, Edward Thatch — is doing his part to bring the humors of the world back into balance. Yes, you are correct, we must be twice as careful walking on this knife’s edge, but the men who tread righteously will be the ones who deliver us from the state of nature and back to civitas, where innocents like Frank (and the virgin girl) will not be supper for wolves.

    Oaky, dogmatic slumber, nice, evocative phrase, good on you there mr. thesarus. Walking along the knifes edge, men tread righteously, deliver us from the state of nature, and civitas and Frank and wolves and eventually the world will no longer be fallen and you can understand that you’re really doing the Devil’s work but every day spent doing that will mean that people one day will no longer do so?

    No no no no hahaha, that’s weaksauce. How about *this*:

    Beta males look upon consubtantiaion and divine incarnation and only think of their own failures; i.e., they gaze upon the Alpha and the Omega, The First and the Last (Rev 22:33), and only see themselves in it, the Omega. Being last is what’s familiar to them, so they discount the other half of the equation. They find the church feminine — despite its being built by a man, and led from the beginning exclusively by men — rather than an Ecclesia Militans because their souls are feminized and only occasionally, awkwardly militant, as Frank demonstrates.

    Looking at a stars and seeing yourself is not a sign of a feminized soul, its a sign of as stunted perspective and a world view so bound up in your tight, little neurosis that you cannot fathom why people run screaming from you when you start talking about that on time you almost made it, but that’s not what he’s really saying, he’s going on about gods and men and women and I know, I just know, I can’t read it and it’s not there, but look at it, look at it, women are evil and their souls corrupt and they need to be controlled, that’s the gist, that’s the slithering parochialism curled like a snake behind the mentions of the names of God.

    But you know what? You know *what*? There is and island in there of sanity and reason. There is a post that makes sense, has a point and manages to convey it.
    Mark fucking Minter has a post in there and it’s my goddamit island of sanity amidst a sea I cannot understand, the life straw I can grasp for when everything else just utterly, utterly fails to connect to any part of the world I normally engage in.

    Any other way of dealing with women, floods your body with cortisol. Stay away from women in a sexual way for a while, and I mean a while, like a year. Then get back around them in sexual and relationship situations and you can feel it surging back into your body. Women bring the stress into your life, just by showing up, just by being women. You can feel your arms numb a little bit from it. You start having trouble falling asleep as quickly. Erections don’t pop up so easy.

    At least this is just the same old “Women are actually the Ebola virus” that occasionally gets mentioned – and as a fyi, if your heart goes a little numb and you feel a sense of shock, you’re having a heart attack, which is what I’m about to have facing the systematic denial of sense, reason and any kind of connection with reality however tenuously attached to some sort of structured belief system – yet that, that just makes sense, it’s the buried old talking point so bloody fine.

    This is a long bit:

    We open with a whiney comment from a virgin chick named alcestiseshtemoa:

    “The first post is News Flash: You Probably Won’t Marry a Virgin. This is going to get me slapped, or disdained, but why? Why? Why?”

    Frank embarrasses himself with a stunning display of White Knightery:

    “Not me. My heart hearts your virginity. Don’t ever let anyone treat you like something less of a human being because of it.”

    Then the virgin chick, overcome by the stench of beta, slaps him down:

    “Thank you Frank but don’t repeat the compliment. I don’t need a beta orbiter.”

    Frank promptly acknowledges his beta orbiter status through an act of compliance with a side of butthurt:

    “Duly noted. *puts alcestiseshtemoa on ignore*”

    I decided to be rude. Not my best work, but I was distracted by Family Guy reruns on TBS, so cut me some slack:

    “Oh, and Frank, you’re a fag dude. “I don’t need a beta orbiter.” Hahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahaha. Called out by a chick in your own corner of the web. Priceless.”

    In response, Frank gets overly theatrical and snarky in a way that’s only manly when I do it:

    “Whatever I said to offend you, I’m sorry and I promise I’ll never do it again *he says in his best beta/delta/gamma/omega voice* Hugsies? *holds out arms*”

    I decided to point out the obvious:

    “if the body of Christ has a vagina, it’s you, bub.”

    Then the virgin girl made another appearance – but this time in defense of Frank. It was clear to her that Frank couldn’t handle his own battles, so she lowered her wings like an old mother hen does when her biddies are in danger and offered him shelter:

    “Edward Thatch, that was disrespectful of Frank. He’s not a fag (virgin men are not fags). Just leave him alone.”

    Now here comes the lulz. Frank, after scurrying under mother hen’s wings of protection, supplicated again. Then in a failed attempt to balance out his betaness, he followed it up with a poorly delivered alpha retort that he probably lifted from ROK or le Chateau. As his comment fell flat, Jesus wept:

    “Thanks for the defense, dear sister. Now shut up and go get me my sandwich. Don’t forget the pickles either! You ALWAYS forget the pickles.”

    Those real people. Having a real conversation, a conversation has ostensibly been copied and is being written about in this heinous crime against literature and humanity.

    Real people. With lives and emotions and thoughts and joys and fears. Are talking like that. Someone says something and one of the responses, out of the myriad millions of ways one can phrase anything, is “If the body of Christ has a vagina, it’s you, bub”.

    The fucking response to “He’s not a fag” is, by the person who is not a fag, “Go get me a sandwich, you always forget the pickles”.

    Sometimes? In my nightmares? In the fevered dreams conjured up by whatever demon rattles around in my skull and passes for a sentience, I have these weird, elongated discussions with figures wearing shadows for skin and eyes the size of moons but teeth, teeth that clatter with the breath like wind and breathing like thunder and in those dreams, the ones I wake up from chilled to my core, what transpires makes more sense than this, is a communication that at least has a sense to it, some meaning, a bit of give and take. Fractured notions of infinites spinning in the darkness behind my eyelids and that? That I can take. This is just absurd.

    I have seen Fox News segments that had more open, constructive dialogue than this exchange.
    What the actual, snappery, doo wthittleylda, darat?

    “I’m walking down the street”
    “This house is full of eels!”
    “I can’t feel my eyeballs!”

    I had a very fortunate encounter with a young virgin Christian girl the other day, and this is the feedback I received after sending out (tasteful) photos of the encounter and sharing the story.

    It’s like they’re shopping for meat. And that’s fine, sure, you have your fetisch and you happen to love virgins, that’s great, okay, whatever, but what the malarky is the sense of all this? A fortunate encounter with a virgin, all right, so she’s not a virgin any more, fine, then, so does that mean you’ve ruined it for someone else or what am I supposed to understand here?

    And then you go on to slam about it and Dalrock and you post on the Internet and the comments are scripture and I can’t feel my eyeballs and enough.
    Enough.
    Enough.

    That’s it. I’m blocking Return of Kings on my browser. And I’m going to go empty a bottle of gin now.

  5. Where did my comment go? This avatar thing is too complicated…

    Anyone feel like taking on the long-ish comment a couple of pages back on how Western women suck? On second thoughts, better not, it was just standard, tedious stuff.

  6. In all seriousness, why are MRAs such bad writers? If it was just a handful of them I’d write it off, but it’s all of them, every single one.

  7. Dogmatic slumber? Is that when dogs automatically snooze in front of the fire after a meal?

  8. I think dogmatic slumber is when the dog from Asterix the Gaul takes a nap.

  9. Perfect! I’d forgotten about Dogmatix. :D

  10. When your logic and grasp of reality is twisted, it takes your language with it. 8(

  11. These guys make Clark Ashton Smith look terse. And at least he was entertaining.

  12. I would have received full aid if I accepted the loans as well, but my father is religiously opposed to interest, so I would get into heaps of trouble. He gets fucking furious when he finds out about any family member getting interest-based loans.

    Hey, so obviously student debt is a very serious thing, but if you don’t yourself have major objections to it, it seems like this could be an opportunity to get out from under your dad’s thumb. He’s going to eventually end up mad at you when you transition anyway, right? I know you want to maintain a relationship with him, but there’s just going to be a fallout there, one way or another. But if you accept the full aid, he wouldn’t have to pay for any of your education and he would have no leverage to control things like where you live while you attend.

  13. He’s going to eventually end up mad at you when you transition anyway, right? I know you want to maintain a relationship with him, but there’s just going to be a fallout there, one way or another.

    This. Aaliyah, I don’t think you’ll be able to maintain a relationship – certainly not one you’d want – with your father, once you’re able to do any of the things you need to. The relationship now is one of abuse of power, isn’t it? You’ve got the guilt and self-loathing he’s planted in you, and he uses it to the fullest, from what you’ve described. Quite apart from my opinion of him (ie. “he’s a shitstain on his good days”) I don’t see how you can maintain a relationship, or even much contact, once you’re free of him, without going on turning yourself inside out. I know you so want to, but will it be worth it, even if it’s possible? The man’s abdicated his duty as a parent, whatever he may think of himself as some sort of patriarchal hero. He should have a guilt trip the size of Lego City for what he’s done and is still doing.

    Am I right in thinking that HRT treatment will include psychological therapy? Because I wish you were able to get into something, CBT perhaps (the type I have experience of) to get support and structure in changing these thought patterns. You deserve so much better than you’re getting now.

    Major apologies if this is stepping over the line or going into armchair psych territory! I really, really want to see you free and living as the woman you are and getting help in healing these wounds.

  14. In all seriousness, why are MRAs such bad writers? If it was just a handful of them I’d write it off, but it’s all of them, every single one.

    I’ve noticed that with a lot of bigoted writers, not just MRAs. They all tend to have the same kind of ridiculous writing style, or a different loaded writing style that’s just as bad. My guess would be that they have to make it more convoluted for their readers and even themselves to believe that they’re not just some hate movement. Like, if they wrote more directly and to the point, they would probably look over their stuff later and think “Shit, I’m just a bigot.”

    But that’s just what I think. I can’t prove it. So basically, it should just be chalked up as “I don’t know.”

  15. That was beautiful.

  16. @DetlefMourning:
    I am genuinely curious as to where you get your ideas about women from, because I know it’s not this dimension.

  17. @CarleyBlue:

    Sure. After… that and six shots of gin and coffee, I’m feeling like I could take on the whole empire! And also like maggots are crawling inside my brainspace, their sweet, sweet voices whispering rapturous secrets about the songs that will drown the world in tears. But that’s an unrelated issue.

    Broadly speaking, western women do suck. Again, since logic and reason typically eludes the people that comment here, I’m talking about western women as a group. Exceptions do exist (and the following list may or may not describe you personally, so don’t get your panties in a bunch). So what is wrong your typical Western woman?

    Broadly speaking, if you will, I’ll make up a generalization – it’s my special skill
    Now when I broadly paint the world with a brush, don’t look at me like I work for TRUSH
    I speak of all of them as a group! Not just you, don’t you see, it’s every woman in the western world
    All the bitches that won’t please me!
    Anyway, panties all bunched up and you primed to accept my measly pontification
    I shall now begin my meagerly generalization!

    1) Bitchy, entitled attitudes, or just poor attitudes in general

    First is a dozy, it’s a point that’s quite often seen
    Them’s gots themselves an attitude problem, and they’re always so mean
    They think they own the world and are entitled to an opinion, their minds awash with hogwash
    (ha ha, like they have minds)
    You see, the foremost problem plaguing all women in the western world
    Is that they think they don’t have to suck on my dick.
    Earlier when I said they sucked, I was referring to the general expression, not the things I want them to suck on
    This means they have an attitude problem, a problem of incoherency, inconsisteny, they’re wanton floozies
    They can’t even keep a rhyme scheme going, the skanks
    Fibi, you slut, get back in the proper meter

    2) A great percentage of them are significantly overweight. If I were 40 or 50 pounds overweight I wouldn’t be complaining about how women don’t give me the time of day, but to merely point out that it’s preferable to sexually desire a woman with a BMI under 30 is a misogynistic hate crime according to the commentariat here.

    Second on my number of paltry denouncements is a simple proclamation:
    People are fat all across the nation
    Thus my declaration, you’ll admit, made with some flair:
    If you’re a fat bitch, you don’t belong here, fair and square.
    Because how you look, and what you do, is obviously all about me, agree?
    And when I say you’re mean and also put on some weight
    It’s not open for debate that the physical features of your feminine creatures
    Is my number one concern, and obviously, the assumption I choose to use
    Is that stating this fact, ie, you’re fat, is what makes me prone to be yelled at for abuse
    Completely, of course, missing the point that desiring something is your own damn skin joint
    Joined, as it is, to the notion that people exist to visually please
    And tease
    And make me all aflutter with their utter lack of butter
    The notion that I’m allowed to choose my own potion! The idea that what I want here and there is
    Somehow my business is a thing I cannot comprehend! Because I won’t make amends, or apologies
    That I don’t want to fuck you makes YOU the obese personalities with bloated attitudes
    Not me, oh no.

    3) Their relationship philosophy could be summed up as it’s the man’s job to defer, serve and cater to them. They have an exhaustive laundry list of requirements for what they want in a man, but when it comes to what they’re supposed to bring to the table, all they think that’s required of them is that they show up. And they are doing you a huge favor just letting you be in their presence. Reciprocity is a foreign concept to them. Can you imagine if every man had an Infinite Jest-sized list of things they required in a woman and didn’t put any care or concern into what they should contribute to a relationship? Even if you decide to let her be the boss and attempt to “serve her” she will eventually come to see you as weak and dump you anyway. The best relationships are 50/50 in that each person is pulling their weight and contributing equally to the partnership. With too many women today, it’s almost like a service relationship. You are the waiter/cashier and they are the customer. Which of course does not work in the long run because eventually she will be repelled at the doormat-like behavior that is produced when you try to cater to her every whim and sideline your own needs and desires. You can only get away with being assertive and strong if she perceives your value to be way higher than hers, i.e. you’re Tom Brady/Brad Pitt and she’s a secretary.

    Thirdly, this one has a far reaching consequence
    And is the nature of my come-uppenance:
    Only handsome people are allowed to have opinions, and only the beautiful creatures
    With very slim features can have good attitudes
    Any other combination is an estranged attempt at normalization of something obscene
    And my infatuation with hinting that women do nothing in relationships means nothing is amiss
    Because they don’t, it’s logic, it’s a group of western women, so just take it from me, in a relationship everyone should pull their own weight
    Because relationships are like bench pressing in that both involve a lot of lying down and grunting
    Ha ha, I’ll be here all night!
    Indeed, my lack of ability to communicate my desires in a meaningful way and attain in my partners
    The needed accusation is that because of my unfulfilled desires
    the world at large is full of floozeys with no capacity for reciprocity, wouldn’t you agree
    that in order for men and women to be free (fatties don’t count) they’d need to mount my
    dick
    24-7
    Of course as a byproduct, communication and honesty and open expectation is rendered null and void compared to the game I intend to play with your head and your heart as I lead you astray, next point!

    4) A lot of times it’s really like walking a tightrope. If you make one mistake, if you fail even once to say the right thing, have a dumb moment, or you do something in a less than elegant way, you get kicked to the curb. I’m not talking about major dealbreakers like abuse, repeatedly getting caught in lies or other irresponsible, reckless behavior, but just generally being human and not being suave, sophisticated and debonair at all times. You get dropped like a hot potato over superficial, silly stuff without any kind of larger consideration as to what sort of man you are, what you bring to the table, what kind of partner you would make in terms of being kind, supportive, generous, having character and integrity, having a good job, etc.

    My fourth point is a point I make, and it’s a point MOST IMPORTANT
    Namely that slavery is illegal and with the coming of free association I’m facing that my self absorbent
    Myopic opinions result in the notion that merely making mistakes renders one out on the streets
    Because in relationships between equal where everything’s 50-50 and weights are being pulled
    Consideration should be made, not such silly things as compatibility or fun, but
    Do I bring enough money, and I have paid for the house this week, is the mortgage all done?
    I decry that my fine mental intentions
    Does nothing to make someone stick around when I declare her attitude aboherent
    And her fattitude discordant
    And the ideas in my head must simply be true, that this is the case, for me and for you:
    What I think I might be, ten years down the line
    Is what you need to have in your head, all the bloody time.
    What I think I might do, if I somehow get around
    Is what you should appreciate, whenever my words make you frown
    I need to make sure your attitude reveals that you trust my words
    Because my actions, I’m afraid, will leave you slightly hurt
    So I’ll spin us all a merry tale
    And if you don’t believe it, of some choice words like “bmi” and “attitude”, I’ll avail
    Indeed, the fourth point, is one I shall SIMPLY as such:
    I might be an asshole *now*, but just wait 20 years, is that asking too much?

    5) Just as guys in their teens and through their twenties focus solely on looks and ignore a woman’s character and other personality attributes, women start off preferring the bad boy because of the excitement that is generated by being with him. And it used to be in generations past that as they got older they realized what was more important for long-term success in a relationship…a guy who was responsible, mature, employed, supportive, kind, etc was a better long-term bet. But nowadays they stick with this bad boy mating strategy long past their teens and early twenties. Ironically, the guys that would make good boyfriends, husbands and fathers get no slack at all in dating situations with women, they are on zero-tolerance probation, but the guys that are absolutely not quality relationship material get plenty of rope to do whatever they want.

    Next, in point 5, 2 decades of men
    I’ll neatly surmise, dismiss, so we can really begin
    To uncover the ire that lurks in my heart:
    Namely that those damn women, of which I want NO part
    Are all dating someone else, someone who isn’t as good and pure as I
    And if they can’t see that, they’re the ones losing out, no lie
    Their choices of men is what I’ll denigrate and berate
    And skip past the point where the choices of women might be less than totally great
    It’s all their fault, those damn double Y’s, and here’s why:
    They want people who aren’t me, and they’d want to stick around with someone who is fun
    And interesting
    Rather than pontificating on how much money he’ll bring
    Oh, say, ten years down the line or so?
    Those damn women want amusement and joy and more than the feeling of being a toy
    And that is the most misandric of ploy they deploys in their employ to make a man a helpless boy
    That they can destroy as they throw him away like a broken toy which is what so annoys me that
    I have taken the time to write out a structured list that’ll catch the gist of my intentions
    And contain at the core a heart of beating venom, pure, of all my rage and screams
    And unfulfilled dreams, as fat people with bad attitudes that I don’t like
    Have fun with other people that aren’t me
    THAT I’M NOT JEALOUS OF, STOP SAYING THAT!

    6) due to items 1-5, there is just generally a paucity of relationship-quality women in the West.

    Due to factors in my head, unrelated to the Planet Earth
    I have decided that millions of people just have no worth
    If they’re skinny, they shallow, if they’re big, they’re too much
    They only want models and they’ll never touch
    (me)

    So at a certain point it’s kind of like “Why bother?” Western women today in general have poor attitudes, are not nurturing and kind, and are not appreciative of good qualities in the men that they date. It seems like the only way you can keep a woman around is to have significantly higher social value than her, i.e. the Brad Pitt/secretary example. Then you can treat her anyway you want.

    And so, alas, me, such a sterling guy is left to fry in the pan of misandric women
    That I can’t treat however I want, because I’m not Brad Pitt.
    But damn, one day, after the plastic surgery and the implanted teeth of a movie star
    I’ll be the guy they all watch from afar
    And it’ll ME up on the hill! Screaming, oh yes I will, and they’ll want to
    Well you know
    And I’ll treat the bitches like they really deserve to be treated!
    Like they’re nothing but meat for my own desires, and that they should just be happy that I’ve chosen to grace them with my presence, since they’re such flaky floozeys, right, Fibi?

    At which point, we’ll answer:
    “… So what’s changed, beyond the nose job?”

  18. This. Aaliyah, I don’t think you’ll be able to maintain a relationship – certainly not one you’d want – with your father, once you’re able to do any of the things you need to. The relationship now is one of abuse of power, isn’t it? You’ve got the guilt and self-loathing he’s planted in you, and he uses it to the fullest, from what you’ve described. Quite apart from my opinion of him (ie. “he’s a shitstain on his good days”) I don’t see how you can maintain a relationship, or even much contact, once you’re free of him, without going on turning yourself inside out. I know you so want to, but will it be worth it, even if it’s possible? The man’s abdicated his duty as a parent, whatever he may think of himself as some sort of patriarchal hero. He should have a guilt trip the size of Lego City for what he’s done and is still doing.

    Honestly, I feel the same way – I don’t think it’s possible for me to fix my relationship with my father, especially once I come out to him.

    I just don’t know if at this point starting the estrangement early on by getting loans against his wishes is what’s best for me. I mean, first of all, I can imagine him doing some coercive or threatening shit to me if I really stand my ground and get the loans without his permission. I know that he’s going to flip out when I start HRT anyway, but still, doing it by getting the loans sounds very…sudden to me. It’s intimidating.

    Am I right in thinking that HRT treatment will include psychological therapy? Because I wish you were able to get into something, CBT perhaps (the type I have experience of) to get support and structure in changing these thought patterns. You deserve so much better than you’re getting now.

    I’m not sure although I’m still planning on getting a therapist regardless of whether psychological therapy is covered. As for the kind of therapy, I’d prefer something that has a bit of focus on the humanistic perspective, if you know what I mean. That would probably help me heal faster.

    I really, really want to see you free and living as the woman you are and getting help in healing these wounds.

    I do too. I’m just worried about me facing a shitty situation so abruptly. I mean, it’s not like my dad is just going to leave me alone any time soon.

  19. You are the best judge of when you are ready. But it will probably feel abrupt and intimidating no matter when you do it.

    PS I’m sure there will be a period where things are really bad, but you never know; it’s possible your dad will surprise you. He controls you right now because he can. Maybe when you get to a position where you don’t have to be in contact with him unless you want to, he’ll decide that he’s willing to have a relationship on your terms. This can take years or decades, but it does happen.

  20. Carleyblue has a kitteh! :)

    *ahem*

    Aaliyah, seconding what katz said: it’ll feel like a scary precipice whatever comes first, and whenever it happens, I’m guessing.

  21. @Cthulhu’s Intern & CassandraSays

    Each of these passages has faults of its own, but, quite apart from avoidable ugliness, two qualities are common to all of them. The first is staleness of imagery; the other is lack of precision. The writer either has a meaning and cannot express it, or he inadvertently says something else, or he is almost indifferent as to whether his words mean anything or not. This mixture of vagueness and sheer incompetence is the most marked characteristic of modern English prose, and especially of any kind of political writing. As soon as certain topics are raised, the concrete melts into the abstract and no one seems able to think of turns of speech that are not hackneyed: prose consists less and less of words chosen for the sake of their meaning, and more and more of phrases tacked together like the sections of a prefabricated hen-house.

    http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/

  22. Chie Satonaka

    Return of Kings….

    He does realize that in a feudalistic society, only a couple of guys actually get to be kings, and only a few more get to be nobility, right? And the vast majority of men are peasants, or perhaps soldiers. But of course Roosh imagines that he’d totally be a king. Just like if this were Deadwood, he’d totally be Al Swearingen and not a hooplehead.

  23. CassandraSays

    I’m guessing what he’s going for is “a man’s home is his castle”, which makes his wife and kids his subjects.

    Dream on, assholes.

  24. Can you imagine if every man had an Infinite Jest-sized list of things they required in a woman and didn’t put any care or concern into what they should contribute to a relationship?

    Every man? No. The MRM/PUA community? No need to imagine.

    A lot of times it’s really like walking a tightrope. If you make one mistake, if you fail even once to say the right thing, have a dumb moment, or you do something in a less than elegant way, you get kicked to the curb. I’m not talking about major dealbreakers like abuse, repeatedly getting caught in lies or other irresponsible, reckless behavior, but just generally being human and not being suave, sophisticated and debonair at all times. You get dropped like a hot potato over superficial, silly stuff without any kind of larger consideration as to what sort of man you are, what you bring to the table, what kind of partner you would make in terms of being kind, supportive, generous, having character and integrity, having a good job, etc.

    This looks like English, but it lacks a certain something… I’m not sure what, but I think it’s a connection to reality.

    And it used to be in generations past that as they got older they realized what was more important for long-term success in a relationship…

    what generations past? Because “dating” didn’t really exist as a cultural behavior (in a way which allowed for, “bad boys”) until fairly recently.

    I wonder who it is lacking in acquaintance to logic and reason.

  25. CassandraSays

    You get dropped like a hot potato over superficial, silly stuff without any kind of larger consideration as to what sort of man you are, what you bring to the table, what kind of partner you would make in terms of being kind

    I have yet to encounter a PUA who could be described as “kind”. Funny how it never occurs to them that their problem is that others do not see them as they see themselves.

    (The others are right.)

  26. This new troll’s bit about BMI, Infinite Jest, and Brad Pitt sounds AwfuLly familiar.

  27. ‘Unsatisfied with her life of being catered on beck and call, of whim and notion, she was drawn to the first man who would remove it all and place chains around her –’

    Yeah that girl was a real spoiled little princess working 70-80 hours as a home health aide, one of the crappiest jobs in existence.

  28. ‘their problem is that others do not see them as they see themselves’.

    O wad some Pow’r the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!
    It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
    An’ foolish notion:

  29. thebionicmommy

    Can you imagine if every man had an Infinite Jest-sized list of things they required in a woman and didn’t put any care or concern into what they should contribute to a relationship?

    Just spend 15 minutes reading some PUA or MRA website talking about women. Their list has dozens of requirements for women, many of which are contradictory, like:

    1. Women have to be skinny, but not because they diet. Women that diet are annoying. So women have to be skinny, and it has to be from a super fast metabolism and luck.

    2. Women should have flawless skin. This shouldn’t come from makeup, though, because that’s being phony. Women should look like they are wearing makeup, but not actually be wearing makeup.

    3. Women should never age past 30. If you’re a woman in a long term relationship, accept that your partner can cheat on you with younger women, because it’s your fault for having the audacity to age.

    4. Even though you have to be skinny, you must also have big boobs. They can’t be implants, though, because that’s fake. However, your big breasts must never sag.

    5. You must be a virgin, and also be willing to do anything your boyfriend likes in bed.

    6. You must have a good paying job, because you are a mooch if you depend on your boyfriend or husband. You must also never steal jobs from deserving men, and if you’re a mom, having a job means you value money more than your own kids.

    7. You must be submissive and defer to the man all the time. However, he can then disrespect you for being a doormat.

    8. Always do all of the cooking and cleaning. Never ask for help, even if you work more hours outside the home than he does. Asking for help=nagging and bitching.

    9. You are always responsible for raising the children and helping sick or elderly family members. If your partner ever helps you, throw him a parade for “babysitting” his own kids.

    10. Remember everyone’s birthdays, anniversaries, mother’s days, graduations, baby showers, etc. Buy the gifts, send cards, and keep everyone happy. However, this means you are a materialistic bitch for shopping too much.

    11. If you pay the bills and do the grocery shopping, apologize for spending that money. That money could have helped the man buy a new boat or take a camping trip with his buddies. Spending money on things like “the electric bill” makes the woman a selfish bitch.

    12. If you are divorced, do all of the work raising the children, but never ask him to pay child support. Don’t apply for government help, either, because then the government might try to enforce the child support orders, and that is misandry.

    So yeah, I can actually imagine the scenario of straight men making endless demands of women even though they themselves have very little to offer in return.

  30. Fibinachi: Your writings have shown me the truth: MRA bloggers are gods–specifically, ancient, terrible gods from the depths of space, who destroy the sanity of those who look upon them.

    As to why MRA bloggers are such horrible writers–it’s more Cargo Cult mentality. They have seen good writing, they know the general shape of it. But they don’t understand that the words need to have meaning, and the ideas underpinning the writing need to be solid and coherent. So if you look at half-sentences, it sometimes resembles something almost literary, but then you look at the whole thing, and you realize it’s a landing-strip made of coconuts.

  31. theseventhguest

    @Aaliyah

    Fibi’s suggestion of using a voice recorder is a good idea. Perhaps one of those little hand held tape or digital ones, then you don’t have to lug around a laptop.

    Hone your skills a little bit, THEN try it out on your more supportive family members.

    Perhaps they are having more trouble with you speaking differently, but still close to the way you usually speak. It could be hard for them to separate the way YOU sound from the way they think a man or a woman sounds. When you practice with someone so used to your voice allready, they might find it extra difficult to discearn changes.

    Trying with someone who has not known you since birth in these earlier stages may get more constructive feedback.

  32. Fibinachi: *slow clap*

  33. thebionicmommy: Those arn’t “requirements” after all, only REAL women meet all of those standards! The rest are whores! WHORES I TELL YOU!

  34. @thebionicmommy: Don’t forget, women are also required to bear healthy children, but have “graceful” pregnancies, with no weight gain.

  35. Also, when woman give birth the baby comes with a notorized paternity test proving who the father is.

  36. Except when the man wants a paper abortion; then you can’t prove it’s his, sucker!

  37. thebionicmommy

    Amused,

    Right, during pregnancy, you are allowed to have a baby bump at your tummy, but must not gain weight anywhere else (an exception might be made for boobs, depending on if the guy likes DD’s or not.) As long as everything else is thin, then you will be considered cute, but not sexy. You are allowed to have up to a week after childbirth to get back in to your pre pregnancy jeans, because that’s what some celebrity with a personal trainer and chef was able to do.

    Oh, and even if you’re completely exhausted and miserable from pregnancy, you can’t take a break from cooking, cleaning, and caring for older children. Pretend you feel just like you did before pregnancy. If you ever complain, that means your wacky pregnancy hormones are just making you bitchy!

    The worst I know if is a friend of mine who mowed her yard with a push mower when she was supposed to be on bed rest. She said she was sick of begging her husband to do it, and the grass was so tall she was afraid the city would fine them. Afterwards, he actually had the nerve to whine that the neighbors gave him dirty looks and judged him about having his very pregnant wife struggling with a heavy push mower. I guess the important thing is that he never had to get off his ass and stop watching football, god forbid. Oh, but women are too demanding, you know. If she had been a perfect wife, she wouldn’t have asked him in the first place. /rolls eyes

    re: men worrying about balding, gaining weight, not looking like Brad Pitt

    I admit that men deal with lookism and ageism to some degree. However, they need to understand that what they deal with in this area is nothing like what women deal with. It’s not in the same ballpark. So if you’re the kind of guy that makes fun of “fatties” and “hags”, then don’t expect me to feel much sympathy for you when you whine about male pattern baldness. Fair is fair.

  38. You are the best judge of when you are ready. But it will probably feel abrupt and intimidating no matter when you do it.

    PS I’m sure there will be a period where things are really bad, but you never know; it’s possible your dad will surprise you. He controls you right now because he can. Maybe when you get to a position where you don’t have to be in contact with him unless you want to, he’ll decide that he’s willing to have a relationship on your terms. This can take years or decades, but it does happen.

    Probably. I guess I just want to avoid it until I’m relatively less stressed out. That way, even if it’s abrupt when it happens, I can deal with it better emotionally and so on.

    As for him changing, that would require him to change his fundamental beliefs. But I suppose anything is possible.

  39. He doesn’t have to change his fundamental beliefs. He just has to decide that he can have a relationship with someone who doesn’t adhere to them. After my uncle came out, he and my Catholic grandma didn’t talk for 20 years, but now they have a good relationship and he calls her every Sunday. She hasn’t stopped being a devout Catholic, she is just willing to put that on the back shelf while she’s around him.

  40. They’re horrible writers because they want to be Oswald Spengler or Otto Weininger and such writing tends to come into English very stilted. German-language authors of that period have that problem, Herzl, Büchner, and Hauptmann, who were mainly discussing social ills and problems of liberation (for Herzl, from anti-semitism, for Büchner, from petty monarchy, for Hauptmann, from industrial abuses) produced stunted, clunky prose. In someone trying to imitate the 19th-century racial eugenicist social conservatives, the result is worse.

  41. Shut up, Eurosabra.

  42. CassandraSays

    You have to admit that the fact that he doesn’t realize that he’s a terrible writer too is kind of funny.

  43. Aaliyah – I’m new here and haven’t commented in a long time, so I hope it doesn’t feel like I’m intruding, but a) I wish you lots of good luck with everything, and b) I had an idea about practicing with your voice. If you can get somewhere private to call, you could call lots of numbers (I’m thinking 1-800 numbers, for example – places where you’re just some random caller) and keep practicing, and when they start referring to you as “ma’am” or “miss” then you’ll know you’ve got it.

  44. Yes because women don’t like being spoiled rotten and treated nicely… and women outside America have no standards… and Roosh isn’t a racist or a bigot… no no no. :)

  45. Buntzums — where you drunk posted and stopped? I ask because you’re making far more sense as of late.

  46. @rahu — I feel like the calling a 1-800 number seems like it’s not fair to the people who answer. My immediate response is, but they didn’t consent to help someone practice their voice. A slower concern is, a lot of 1-800 numbers are selling something — you might get a hard sell, or a resentful agent who thinks you’re wasting their time.

  47. @ Falconer –

    Both good points.

    What about informational 800 numbers – like the Butterball questions-on-cooking-turkey line, or a come-visit-this-city-let-me-answer-your-questions line – something where there would be some talking, but no hard sells?

  48. plus she’d end up being able to cook a great turkey and know all about the history and sights of Albuquerque or whatever. :-)

  49. Read the blog. Nasty. rooosh is utterly repellant and so is this samsheash bloke. I am so tired of hearing about how we’re all sluts, we’re just waiting for someone alpha enough and then we’ll open our legs unquestioningly. Now we deserve to be beaten.

    I am everything these “good men” believe they’re owed. Lost my virginity to my husband (no affairs), slim hourglass figure, long hair. Women like me view these men with the contempt they deserve. They are a bunch of bitter losers. I just wish they’d stop whining in the comments of every damn newspaper article I read about women’s issues at the moment.

    SIGH sorry rant over. Been a rough week. Glad you’re cataloging all this David.

  50. Feminism is the ugly girls club. to wage war on the pretty girls of society. you know real girls have curves etc etc. women drinking,swearing and acting like men. in other words like bull dikes. radiacal feminist’s are ugly, man-hating misable ghouls. and like all misable people misey likes company. and they lie to other women. women who have a future you know like husband, children the white picket fence thing and rob them of that future. because they are insane, phyically grotuque and have unpleaseant personalties. and becuse men don’t want them and they are gay for other women they want to recruit more women to their cause becuase they get tired of licking the same pussy every night.

  51. why do manboobz think of the return of queens site?

  52. Return of Kings is just a site for bitter, old, used men to comment on how much their life sucks due to “Americen women” because they fear the truth that everything that turned to shit was hand made by them. They claim it’s okay to cheat on your wife for a younger model because it’s “In their masculine nature”, but criticize women if they cheat for a much less whiner of a man and more logically set (Which is also part of the female woman’s biological needs). This really isn’t a site you should even bother talking about. The members are truly disturbing, even for the average well thought out man. I hope no one bumps into these sewer rats. If you do, just ignore them and hope they scurry away back to the gutters. I really don’t agree with what many feminists believe, nor am I opposed to foreign marriage. The problem with ROTK is that they poison their minds with bitterness and narcissism to the point they became no better than raging feminists themselves.

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