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So who exactly has been harassing that red-haired Canadian feminist? A not-quite-scientific survey

MRAs rarely let facts get in the way of their tantrums
MRAs rarely let facts get in the way of their tantrums

So the Men’s Rights subreddit has temporarily relaxed its policy of not allowing links to the terrible cesspool of lies that is Man Boobz to allow this post attacking me for detailing the disgusting threats and harassment a certain Canadian feminist activist has faced in recent days.

Most of the commenters flatly ignored the evidence of doxing and harassment that I included in my post — if they even bothered to read it — and simply invented their own story of what had happened. Instead of denouncing those who left death threats, they attacked me and the activist in question. And blamed all the ugliness on “trolls.”

Men’s Rights regular Sigil1, who used to post awful comments on Man Boobz as Eoghan (and using countless other sockpuppet accounts) responded in an all-too-predictable fashion, by falsely accusing me of making “false accusations” against MRAs.

siggle

You may recall that in my post I offered two pieces of evidence that showed that MRAs were involved in posting this woman’s personal information on the internet — that is, doxing her. One was a large screenshot from a Men’s Rights forum containing a wide array of her personal information including phone numbers and her home address. I also noted that the A Voice for Men forum featured links to several of her dating profiles.

In other words, these are clearly MRAs, and they have been disseminating her personal information — that is, doxing — her. To repeat, and I’m sorry that I have to repeat such an utterly simpleminded point: THE FACT THAT SOME PEOPLE (WHO ARE MRAS) ARE DOXING HER MEANS THAT MRAS HAVE BEEN DOXING HER. Other people who are probably not MRAs have also been doxing her.

In the Reddit thread, giegerwasright complains that “they” — meaning me –“are also moving the goalposts on doxxing to suit their needs.” Well, no. I’d say that a post on a Men’s Rights forum that includes her picture, links to her Facebook page, her Tumblr blog, her YouTube account, her old Twitter account, a dating profile, her home address and two phone numbers is “doxing” by pretty much everyone’s definition of the term.

As anyone who looks at the large screenshot I posted earlier would see, its author  — a famous MRA spammer who goes by the name John Rambo — urged men to “contact her through one of the below methods and ask her why she hates men so much.”

In my earlier post I showed you the sort of horrific stuff many of those who have been contacting her have been saying.

Did I provide proof that any of these threatening and harassing comments were from MRAs? Well, aside from one message from A Voice for Men’s Dan Perrins, which was more of a gloating message than a threatening one, no. Part of the reason for this is that most of the direct threats sent to the activist were sent — wait for it — anonymously. That’s how threat-makers generally do things. Cuts down the possibility of getting in trouble.

As for the YouTube comments, I didn’t check. Why? Because, given that the video in question was titled “mras and feminists arguing at u of t mra event,” and that the video was linked to on assorted Men’s Rights sites including the Men’s Rights subreddit and A Voice for Men, I figured that the odds were pretty good that a lot of them were MRAs; certainly the odds that none of them were MRAs were pretty much zero. (And of course I never claimed they were all MRAs.)

But as I sat down to write this post I found I was curious about these nasty YouTube people. So I did a little experiment. I went through the list of awful YouTube comments that I posted on Monday, and took at look at the YouTube feeds of the various commenters who left them to see if I could determine whether or not they were MRAs. I included only those who made threatening and/or misogynist comments, and left out a few that didn’t provide enough information for me to make an educated guess.

Here are the results. But first, a TRIGGER WARNING, because I quote liberally from their nasty, violent and often crudely sexual comments. (You can skim down to my summary of what I found if you wish to avoid the gruesome details.)

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YouTuber Kilz Bryce, who wished a gruesome “death by cheese grater” to the red-haired activist (henceforth RHA), is an otherwise unassuming Japanese fan of Taylor Swift and Carly Rae Jepsen. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA.

Slurpos, who suggested shooting the RHA, is a racist conspiracy-monger who recently called MSNBC’s Melissa Harris-Perry a “slut.” VERDICT: Misogynist, but not a confirmed MRA.

Joris667, who suggested a “cock up the arse,” recently “liked” an antifeminist video by Mykeru, who just happens to be a contributor to A Voice for Men. VERDICT: Possibly an MRA.

Damndisplace07, who suggested punching the RHA, has posted a bunch of rambling, ranty misogynistic videos on YouTube, some of which rely heavily on Manosphere ideology and jargon. VERDICT: Probably an MRA.

BusinessmanBandit is a young entrepreneur and goldbug who likes referring to women as “bitches.” VERDICT: Misogynist, but not a confirmed MRA.

Lazywhiteb0y, who “would love to punch this annoying cunt directly in the face,” is a fan of rap, country music, guns and beer. VERDICT: Misogynist, but not a confirmed MRA.

Akranejames, who also favors punching “this type of feminist,” is mostly obsessed with video games. But he also made a recent comment suggesting that we should abandon feminism and “machism” for “equalism,” and the only people I’ve ever heard use that ridiculous term have been hopeless MRA types. VERDICT: Probably an MRA, or at least a sometime reader of Mens’ Rights sites.

Leinster4life13, who wanted to ship her to Saudi Arabia, is a soccer enthusiast who also recently “liked” a video by the notoriously misogynistic Manhood Academy. VERDICT: Probably an MRA, or at least an MRA-in-training.

Chocolateking1, who made a joke about keeping “bitches” in the kitchen, seems to be, well, the sort of trolly asshole who thinks jokes about keeping “bitches” in the kitchen. VERDICT: Misogynist, probably not an MRA.

MadDogFritz, who railed about “feminazi propaganda” and made three separate comments on three different videos demanding to know “who is the the red headed pig monster with the attitude,” has recently commented on a number of MRA videos and is also a big fan of TheAmazingAtheist and his antifeminist rants. Also has complained about “women’s lib.” VERDICT: Seems pretty damn MRAish to me.

Robert alakaka, who declared that the RHA is “one of the most unlikable cunts in his [?] existence,” and that he “sincerely hopes she dies,” is a raging misogynist and homophobe who recently “liked” a video featuring the MRA-ish “Dick Masterson” explaining how “men are better than women.” Aaaaand he’s a fan of TheAmazingAtheist. VERDICT: Definitely MRA-ish.

TheTrueValkyrie66, who compared the RHA unfavorably to goatse, is also a fan of TheAmazingAtheist and — wait for it — MyLittlePony. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA, but seems to have stepped straight out of the Big Book of Redditor Stereotypes.

HUEHEUHE HEUHEUEH, who made a generic misogynist remark, seems to be a Brony. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA.

EndlessCycleofPride, who declared “I hope you get raped,” is way into bodybuilding. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA, but a terrible person nonetheless.

Dominic Galvin, who declared “I want to punch her,” is a vintage car enthusiast and yet another fan of TheAmazingAtheist, especially his antifeminist rants. VERDICT: Possible MRA.

Corbbin Goldsmith, who suggested oral rape, is a software synth enthusiast and bedroom musician. VERDICT: An awful person, but there’s no indication he’s an MRA.

Amaurypenseur, who thinks that “feminists deserve rape as punishment,” is a weird Belgian who hates American culture, “hanker[s for] a society based on war, inequality and irrationally,” and is a sort-of fan of, um, Hitler. Verdict: Antifeminist (obviously) but probably not an MRA as such.

Theninja36, who wanted to “punch her in the face,” is a American gamer who seems a tad obsessed with Japan. VERDICT: Clearly hates feminists, as several of his comments attest, but there’s no indication he’s an MRA.

About all I can tell  about Jack Ofalltrades, who made a crude, racist sexual suggestion, is that he’s a fan of the XFactor. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA.

So what have we learned here, aside from the sad fact that going through the histories of a whole bunch of YouTubers takes a fuck of a lot longer than I thought it would when I started out? Well, a number of things.

Out of the nineteen horrible commenters I was able to determine anything about, only one, Chocolateking1, seems to even vaguely fit the stereotype of the amoral, lulz-seeking troll that our friend Sigil1 wants to blame for all this.

Most of the commenters have been on YouTube for some time, with most of them using the site as an outlet for their various obsessions, which may or may not include hating on feminism. In a few cases they seem to be posting under their real names, which makes it all the more amazing that they’re perfectly willing to post violent and/or sexual comments as if no one except the nasty feminists would find any of this at all objectionable. Virtually all of them seem to be genuinely and unashamedly misogynistic.

Eight of the nineteen commenters are explicitly antifeminist, which puts them more than halfway along the route to possible MRAhood. Six — roughly a third of the total — are probably MRAs, or at the very least consumers of Men’s Rights and/or Manosphere media. Four are fans of TheAmazingAtheist. (NOTE TO SELF: TheAmazingAtheist has some really, really shitty fans.)

So congratulations, fellas: only perhaps a third of the many hundreds of terrible people who have been harassing and threatening the activist in question on YouTube seem to be MRAs or MRA-adjacent. Given that the total number of MRAs in the world is probably less than the number of people who watched that one video, that’s pretty impressive.

The comments I looked at here, nonetheless, are only a small fraction of the total number of threatening and/or harassing comments about the red-haired activist that have been posted to YouTube, and that are still being posted as you read this. She also received hundreds of messages directly, most of them anonymous.

Even if most of these messages weren’t sent by people who identify explicitly as MRAs, a signficant proportion clearly were, so we’re still talking about many dozens, perhaps even hundreds, of MRAs and fellow travelers who decided that the appropriate response to the video of the red-haired activist was to fire off comments and messages calling her a “bitch” or a “cunt” or something equally odious — and/or suggesting that she should be punched, or raped or even killed.

This whole exercise has helped to make even clearer to me why so many MRAs have made their names posting videos on YouTube: Because YouTube is filled to overflowing with the sort of terrible people who think rape threats are hilarious and that GirlWritesWhat is a genius.

MRAs, these people are your audience. Your peeps. Your most likely source of future converts. (Well, maybe not that Belgian Hitler fan. He’s got some ideas about statutory rape of teen boys that are as likely to offend MRAs as they are to offend feminists.)

And you wonder why so many see the Men’s Rights movement as a hate movement. (Hint: It’s the hate.)

NOTE: My promised post reflecting a bit more on A Voice for Men’s role in this all should go up tomorrow.

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Marie
7 years ago

@freemage

True XD

Also, computer knowledge lacking: is basic some kinda programming language, or is my brain garbling up everything again?

Emilygoddess
Emilygoddess
7 years ago

Clint, dude, it was bad enough you were obsessed with SFD being Wrong On The Internet while you were still able to post there. Continuing to expend effort on them a year after they banned you is just sad.

freemage
freemage
7 years ago

Marie: BASIC is exactly that–the ultra super-simple programming language. Every line is numbered, and the list of commands is… not long. But it was fun and cool and new back then, in the age of the Commodore 64 and the Atari 800.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

So this dude is the MRAL of some other site? Now I’m wondering if every lefty/progressive blog has one.

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
7 years ago

Ah, BASIC. So simple and yet so annoying.

I am an olds.

cloudiah
7 years ago

pillowinhell, It totally makes sense they would go after that expert witness — the Jodi Arias trial is a cause célèbre of r/mensrights! Yet another case of a woman who dares speak in opposition to MRA causes and being targeted with threats of violence. It’s all just part of the pattern.

Marie
7 years ago

@freemage

At least I remembered something about it correctly then XD

Falconer
7 years ago

We used to have a subscription to 3 2 1 Contact Magazine, and for a while it was printing short BASIC programs in the back which you could type up and run.

I remember a program for doing word searches for you. The problem was, you had to type in the puzzle line by line and then tell it what words to find. So you’d found half of them by the time you could use the program.

Then there was another that tested your memory by making you a short-order cook being yelled orders by the waitress. That program gave you about a half-second to study the order. It felt kind of like this:

I remember another program that would draw a volcano on your screen … slowly.

Falconer
7 years ago

The program I remember best from that era wasn’t one we wrote, it was far too large, but it was basically a solo fantasy RPG called Cave Quest. I never got too far in it. I remember I had a character who was slow as Christmas because I bought him the heaviest armor in the game without buying up his Strength, so every step he took sunk his energy into the negatives and I had to wait about a second between steps.

No one else seems to remember it, I’ve found it referenced on one website and I haven’t found any freeware, shareware or abandonware of it.

Falconer
7 years ago

Spoke too soon! It’s called Cavequest!

Falconer
7 years ago

Now I have to get serious about learning DOSbox….

katz
7 years ago

OMGBASIC! I cut my programming teeth on QBasic in fourth grade. Good times, good times.

pecunium
7 years ago

pillowinhell: Why am I not surprised that clint is refusing to respond to anyone other than Pecunium?

Pecunium, what’s your secret with the troll love?

Actually, he’s not really responding to me. This is typical. I seem to overwhelm them.

pecunium
7 years ago

qocheedy: And really let’s face it, who hasn’t to some degree gotten online death threats?</i

I have, but they've been in relation to my work on torture, or from MRA types; who seemed to think I was female in most of those. At least based on what they said. I've had some who just said I was "like a woman", but others which plainly assumed I was female (the language was graphic).

pecunium
7 years ago

Clint: I said the redhead committed incitement to felony fraud by enraging a group of people and storming a building with them brandishing a bullhorn. She did that and one of them pulled the fire alarm. I don’t see how that is libelous

Felony fraud? No. Someone pulled a fire alarm fraudulently. That’s a different crime. In Ontario it’s a misdemeanor. Unless you (who weren’t there) can show that she said, “YANK THE FIRE ALARM”, this is libleous.

Then you said this:

freemage if you were half the internet lawyer you thought you were, you would know that libel is only when you can prove that the intent was to characterise someone in a manner inconsistent with the truth.

You are the one who doesn’t understand libel. It comes in two forms. per se and per quod. Of the two per se is the easier to commit/determine. It’s libel on its face. It’s what you are doing when you say she committed a felony.

Per quod is libel by circumstance. Its how English newspapers might be charged for, “libel by juxtapostion” wherein they put two news stories next to each other, and one might infer the second one was related to the first.

Since RHA has not been so much as charged, you saying she committed a felony (which is, in law, an infamous act) is libel per se. You might be able to raise a Sullivan defense (were this in the US; it’s not, but since you are I’m couching in it terms which might help you in more usual stomping grounds), and claim that by becoming a public figure she lost some of her protections against libelous statements. However, since her fame is incidental to the event (she wasn’t trying to become famous, nor was she using it as a platform to promote herself, or a specific cause, etc.) this is tenuous. Also you aren’t a news organisation, though that protection would probably not help you as even were you such publishing a knowingly false claim (which you are, and are persisting in, even after it has been shown that the claim you made is false).

Since you are persisting in it, even after it’s falsity has been shown, a reasonable person would probably conclude you have made the claim with malice. As such… I feel safe in saying you are a libelous turd.

I say this as someone who was both the opinion, and managing, editor of a weekly paper. I say it as someone who has been libeled in a newspaper. I say it as someone who spent years living with the restrictions of libel in my mind on a daily basis. I say it as someone who managed, through a moment of inadvertence to commit libel (per se) (I said someone had been cited for speeding. While it may be true that she was guilty of speeding, she was cited with alleged violation of a posted speed limit; there is a subtle, but important, legal distinction).

So I feel confident that I can call you a libelous sack of shit, since you have committed something which seems to be actionable libel (in the US). I’d be more than willing to defend against any such suit you tried to press against me, if you could afford to find a lawyer willing to take it.

Good luck with that.

pecunium
7 years ago

Clint: I see you’ve been put on a time out. Which means you have time to ponder what I’ve got to say.

This bit is in all seriousness, there is nothing ironic, nor mocking about it. It’s professional advice, in response to this:

Any Doxxing would probably include my love for my 180 pound dog and the picture of the “I support the second amendment” sticker over the peephole in my front door. Someone would have to be a special mix of dumb and psychotic to respond to me with death and rape threats.

Those are not dissuasive. Not only will those not stop internet threats, because internet threats are almost impossible to trace back; so any vague notion that you might try to turn the tables… not making it.

They also don’t mean shit to someone who actually wants to attack you. I used to to Personal Protection Details (organised bodyguarding of people who were some type of high profile target. I’ve done it both in the States, and overseas).

First thing you have to learn, there is nothing you can do to keep someone from getting to the target. If someone wants to get them, they will.

Second thing: All one can really do in a proactive sense is be alert; knowing how to spot atypical behavior is one thing, but knowing that attackers know this means you have to not fixate on it, since having someone act as the nervous decoy can be a tactic to distract you from spotting the actual bad actor. This is why one has to have comms, and zones, and ranges of search and all the other tricks one uses to separate the non-threats (which are huge) from the possible threats (which are still huge) from the actual hostile (who are few and far between: it’s sort of like Shcrödinger’s Rapist).

Third, a reactive target is a dead target. When the balloon goes up, the target has to be covered up, and the reaction team has to coalesce, while the non-reaction team gets the target out of the kill zone.

You, as a self-defending target aren’t helping yourself by saying, “see how badass I am”. That (as with the presence of a known PPD) only discourages those who aren’t serious. Having a dog makes you a softer target; unless you have enough yard the dog never needs a walk you have to leave the house on a fairly regular basis.

Telling people you have guns, makes you a target to attack more harshly. Unless you meet everyone who knocks at the door with a loaded gun in your hand, they don’t really help you. What telling the world you have them does is make the people who might otherwise just beat the snot out of you more likely to just shoot you (this is also true of the large dog).

The takeaway is, if someone is really after you, they can get to you. You really don’t want them to think the only thing they can afford to do is shoot you.

pecunium
7 years ago

Shit… damn blockquote monster.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Not remotely caught up, so this was probably said (lol, assuming Clint hasn’t been banned)

“she’s acting like someone who should be medicated in some way.”

Yeah yeah because god forbid someone who’s medicated might have a legitimate reason to be angry, just take some more pills and leave me alone. I’d yawn in boredom, but I get that shit too often. Hell, it gets a handwritten bit in Emilie Autumn’s book.

Shorter version, you want some ableism with your misogyny Clint?

pecunium
7 years ago

Argenti: Ableism is not wanting in Clint’s misogyny.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Was closer to caught up than I thought. And I see Clint got a 4chan-esque cool off period.

“1) Someone asked me how I would feel about her doxxing my facebook info here and now”

Your very first premise is false. The question was not about how you’d feel if readily available info was posted here, but how you’d feel if everything that was posted about her, where posted about you — phone, home addy, dating profiles, etc.

And I’ve never gotten death threats, hell, not even NWO tried that shit.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Lol it was a joke, but you got that I guess. You want some hazelnut creamer with your coffee though? I have a fresh batch! (Also a joke, unless you feel like taking a vacation, and oh boy could we use extra hands cleaning out my grandfather’s!)

pecunium
7 years ago

I take heavy cream with my coffee, as God intended. 🙂

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Lol, well you enjoy that. Me and my lactose intolerant self will stick with fake creamer!

pecunium
7 years ago

I am glad that there is a way for you to have a creamlike experience.

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
7 years ago

ZOMG! Atari 800! ZOMG!! Basic!!

That brings back memories…jesus and to think that todays toaster has more computational power than my first computers!!

Although no one was more relieved than I when printer paper started being made larger than four inches and cassette tapes were discarded as memory devices.

Argenti Aertheri
7 years ago

Pecunium, in any other context! *dies*

Blame shopping Walmart for shelving because god forbid I just find ikea shelves. My brain, it is jello.

Doris
Doris
7 years ago

Holy shit, clintiskeen still exists? i guess livejournal doesn’t garner enough attention these days, eh bro?

Somebody
Somebody
6 years ago

Clint, talking isn’t a felony. Pulling the fire alarm is, and the person that did that was some one that wanted to shut her up. What you are saying is, that she should be arrested and tried for pulling the fire alarm, because she said something some one else didn’t want to hear, and acted like a baby when they did hear it?

kittehserf
6 years ago

Somebody, this thread’s almost a year old – pretty much a waste of time replying to it now.

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