So who exactly has been harassing that red-haired Canadian feminist? A not-quite-scientific survey

MRAs rarely let facts get in the way of their tantrums

MRAs rarely let facts get in the way of their tantrums

So the Men’s Rights subreddit has temporarily relaxed its policy of not allowing links to the terrible cesspool of lies that is Man Boobz to allow this post attacking me for detailing the disgusting threats and harassment a certain Canadian feminist activist has faced in recent days.

Most of the commenters flatly ignored the evidence of doxing and harassment that I included in my post — if they even bothered to read it — and simply invented their own story of what had happened. Instead of denouncing those who left death threats, they attacked me and the activist in question. And blamed all the ugliness on “trolls.”

Men’s Rights regular Sigil1, who used to post awful comments on Man Boobz as Eoghan (and using countless other sockpuppet accounts) responded in an all-too-predictable fashion, by falsely accusing me of making “false accusations” against MRAs.

siggle

You may recall that in my post I offered two pieces of evidence that showed that MRAs were involved in posting this woman’s personal information on the internet — that is, doxing her. One was a large screenshot from a Men’s Rights forum containing a wide array of her personal information including phone numbers and her home address. I also noted that the A Voice for Men forum featured links to several of her dating profiles.

In other words, these are clearly MRAs, and they have been disseminating her personal information — that is, doxing — her. To repeat, and I’m sorry that I have to repeat such an utterly simpleminded point: THE FACT THAT SOME PEOPLE (WHO ARE MRAS) ARE DOXING HER MEANS THAT MRAS HAVE BEEN DOXING HER. Other people who are probably not MRAs have also been doxing her.

In the Reddit thread, giegerwasright complains that “they” — meaning me –“are also moving the goalposts on doxxing to suit their needs.” Well, no. I’d say that a post on a Men’s Rights forum that includes her picture, links to her Facebook page, her Tumblr blog, her YouTube account, her old Twitter account, a dating profile, her home address and two phone numbers is “doxing” by pretty much everyone’s definition of the term.

As anyone who looks at the large screenshot I posted earlier would see, its author  — a famous MRA spammer who goes by the name John Rambo — urged men to “contact her through one of the below methods and ask her why she hates men so much.”

In my earlier post I showed you the sort of horrific stuff many of those who have been contacting her have been saying.

Did I provide proof that any of these threatening and harassing comments were from MRAs? Well, aside from one message from A Voice for Men’s Dan Perrins, which was more of a gloating message than a threatening one, no. Part of the reason for this is that most of the direct threats sent to the activist were sent — wait for it — anonymously. That’s how threat-makers generally do things. Cuts down the possibility of getting in trouble.

As for the YouTube comments, I didn’t check. Why? Because, given that the video in question was titled “mras and feminists arguing at u of t mra event,” and that the video was linked to on assorted Men’s Rights sites including the Men’s Rights subreddit and A Voice for Men, I figured that the odds were pretty good that a lot of them were MRAs; certainly the odds that none of them were MRAs were pretty much zero. (And of course I never claimed they were all MRAs.)

But as I sat down to write this post I found I was curious about these nasty YouTube people. So I did a little experiment. I went through the list of awful YouTube comments that I posted on Monday, and took at look at the YouTube feeds of the various commenters who left them to see if I could determine whether or not they were MRAs. I included only those who made threatening and/or misogynist comments, and left out a few that didn’t provide enough information for me to make an educated guess.

Here are the results. But first, a TRIGGER WARNING, because I quote liberally from their nasty, violent and often crudely sexual comments. (You can skim down to my summary of what I found if you wish to avoid the gruesome details.)

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YouTuber Kilz Bryce, who wished a gruesome “death by cheese grater” to the red-haired activist (henceforth RHA), is an otherwise unassuming Japanese fan of Taylor Swift and Carly Rae Jepsen. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA.

Slurpos, who suggested shooting the RHA, is a racist conspiracy-monger who recently called MSNBC’s Melissa Harris-Perry a “slut.” VERDICT: Misogynist, but not a confirmed MRA.

Joris667, who suggested a “cock up the arse,” recently “liked” an antifeminist video by Mykeru, who just happens to be a contributor to A Voice for Men. VERDICT: Possibly an MRA.

Damndisplace07, who suggested punching the RHA, has posted a bunch of rambling, ranty misogynistic videos on YouTube, some of which rely heavily on Manosphere ideology and jargon. VERDICT: Probably an MRA.

BusinessmanBandit is a young entrepreneur and goldbug who likes referring to women as “bitches.” VERDICT: Misogynist, but not a confirmed MRA.

Lazywhiteb0y, who “would love to punch this annoying cunt directly in the face,” is a fan of rap, country music, guns and beer. VERDICT: Misogynist, but not a confirmed MRA.

Akranejames, who also favors punching “this type of feminist,” is mostly obsessed with video games. But he also made a recent comment suggesting that we should abandon feminism and “machism” for “equalism,” and the only people I’ve ever heard use that ridiculous term have been hopeless MRA types. VERDICT: Probably an MRA, or at least a sometime reader of Mens’ Rights sites.

Leinster4life13, who wanted to ship her to Saudi Arabia, is a soccer enthusiast who also recently “liked” a video by the notoriously misogynistic Manhood Academy. VERDICT: Probably an MRA, or at least an MRA-in-training.

Chocolateking1, who made a joke about keeping “bitches” in the kitchen, seems to be, well, the sort of trolly asshole who thinks jokes about keeping “bitches” in the kitchen. VERDICT: Misogynist, probably not an MRA.

MadDogFritz, who railed about “feminazi propaganda” and made three separate comments on three different videos demanding to know “who is the the red headed pig monster with the attitude,” has recently commented on a number of MRA videos and is also a big fan of TheAmazingAtheist and his antifeminist rants. Also has complained about “women’s lib.” VERDICT: Seems pretty damn MRAish to me.

Robert alakaka, who declared that the RHA is “one of the most unlikable cunts in his [?] existence,” and that he “sincerely hopes she dies,” is a raging misogynist and homophobe who recently “liked” a video featuring the MRA-ish “Dick Masterson” explaining how “men are better than women.” Aaaaand he’s a fan of TheAmazingAtheist. VERDICT: Definitely MRA-ish.

TheTrueValkyrie66, who compared the RHA unfavorably to goatse, is also a fan of TheAmazingAtheist and — wait for it — MyLittlePony. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA, but seems to have stepped straight out of the Big Book of Redditor Stereotypes.

HUEHEUHE HEUHEUEH, who made a generic misogynist remark, seems to be a Brony. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA.

EndlessCycleofPride, who declared “I hope you get raped,” is way into bodybuilding. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA, but a terrible person nonetheless.

Dominic Galvin, who declared “I want to punch her,” is a vintage car enthusiast and yet another fan of TheAmazingAtheist, especially his antifeminist rants. VERDICT: Possible MRA.

Corbbin Goldsmith, who suggested oral rape, is a software synth enthusiast and bedroom musician. VERDICT: An awful person, but there’s no indication he’s an MRA.

Amaurypenseur, who thinks that “feminists deserve rape as punishment,” is a weird Belgian who hates American culture, “hanker[s for] a society based on war, inequality and irrationally,” and is a sort-of fan of, um, Hitler. Verdict: Antifeminist (obviously) but probably not an MRA as such.

Theninja36, who wanted to “punch her in the face,” is a American gamer who seems a tad obsessed with Japan. VERDICT: Clearly hates feminists, as several of his comments attest, but there’s no indication he’s an MRA.

About all I can tell  about Jack Ofalltrades, who made a crude, racist sexual suggestion, is that he’s a fan of the XFactor. VERDICT: Probably not an MRA.

So what have we learned here, aside from the sad fact that going through the histories of a whole bunch of YouTubers takes a fuck of a lot longer than I thought it would when I started out? Well, a number of things.

Out of the nineteen horrible commenters I was able to determine anything about, only one, Chocolateking1, seems to even vaguely fit the stereotype of the amoral, lulz-seeking troll that our friend Sigil1 wants to blame for all this.

Most of the commenters have been on YouTube for some time, with most of them using the site as an outlet for their various obsessions, which may or may not include hating on feminism. In a few cases they seem to be posting under their real names, which makes it all the more amazing that they’re perfectly willing to post violent and/or sexual comments as if no one except the nasty feminists would find any of this at all objectionable. Virtually all of them seem to be genuinely and unashamedly misogynistic.

Eight of the nineteen commenters are explicitly antifeminist, which puts them more than halfway along the route to possible MRAhood. Six — roughly a third of the total — are probably MRAs, or at the very least consumers of Men’s Rights and/or Manosphere media. Four are fans of TheAmazingAtheist. (NOTE TO SELF: TheAmazingAtheist has some really, really shitty fans.)

So congratulations, fellas: only perhaps a third of the many hundreds of terrible people who have been harassing and threatening the activist in question on YouTube seem to be MRAs or MRA-adjacent. Given that the total number of MRAs in the world is probably less than the number of people who watched that one video, that’s pretty impressive.

The comments I looked at here, nonetheless, are only a small fraction of the total number of threatening and/or harassing comments about the red-haired activist that have been posted to YouTube, and that are still being posted as you read this. She also received hundreds of messages directly, most of them anonymous.

Even if most of these messages weren’t sent by people who identify explicitly as MRAs, a signficant proportion clearly were, so we’re still talking about many dozens, perhaps even hundreds, of MRAs and fellow travelers who decided that the appropriate response to the video of the red-haired activist was to fire off comments and messages calling her a “bitch” or a “cunt” or something equally odious — and/or suggesting that she should be punched, or raped or even killed.

This whole exercise has helped to make even clearer to me why so many MRAs have made their names posting videos on YouTube: Because YouTube is filled to overflowing with the sort of terrible people who think rape threats are hilarious and that GirlWritesWhat is a genius.

MRAs, these people are your audience. Your peeps. Your most likely source of future converts. (Well, maybe not that Belgian Hitler fan. He’s got some ideas about statutory rape of teen boys that are as likely to offend MRAs as they are to offend feminists.)

And you wonder why so many see the Men’s Rights movement as a hate movement. (Hint: It’s the hate.)

NOTE: My promised post reflecting a bit more on A Voice for Men’s role in this all should go up tomorrow.

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Posted on April 17, 2013, in a voice for men, advocacy of violence, antifeminism, atheism minus, creepy, harassment, hate, lying liars, men who should not ever be with ponies ever, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, rape culture, rape jokes, reddit, threats, YouTube and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 479 Comments.

  1. “Clint, we get it. You think women should be seen and not heard. ”

    Clearly. Clearly that is what I said.

    “Clint, she’s not getting pizza and beer delivered to her house at all hours.”

    No, but we weren’t talking about her, we’re talking about me. Also I said Taxis, because pizza and taxis are common attacks after an internet doxx. Also again we’re talking about me. Any Doxxing would probably include my love for my 180 pound dog and the picture of the “I support the second amendment” sticker over the peephole in my front door. Someone would have to be a special mix of dumb and psychotic to respond to me with death and rape threats.

    This is how the “argument” has been going so far. I say a thing and people either say why it doesn’t apply to something I wasn’t talking about, or how it really means something I didn’t say. I mean next someone is going to reply WELL MAYBE YOU LIKE BEER BEING DELIVERED TO YOUR HOUSE BUT MAYBE SHE DOESN’T. I mean most of the replies to things I have said have been non sequiturs.

  2. pillowinhell, perhaps not just ranting about things I never said and name calling is more likely to get responses from me. Just a thought.

  3. No, but we weren’t talking about her, we’re talking about me.

    How’s the different from any other post of yours? This whole thing is turning into the Clint show. You have a pathetic need for attention.

  4. “You attempted to characterize her as someone who had committed a felony.”

    And she did.

  5. Did not.

  6. Clint, I’d ask you to back up the felony claim with a citation, but your definition of citation seems to be lying about what happens on youtube videos.

  7. No, but we weren’t talking about her, we’re talking about me.

    Clinty, there are healthier ways to get attention. Stamping your foot and screaming like a five year-old is not one of them.

  8. Malitia – “Firefox has a new add-on” love it! :D

  9. I don’t even get this line of insanity. Here is literally what just happened:

    1) Someone asked me how I would feel about her doxxing my facebook info here and now

    2) I said I wouldn’t really care, because I was the one who linked to my facebook anyway, it’s not the same thing because I was the one who introduced that information, so at that point I’m not that worried about it.

    3) She said but I COULD how about that.

    4) I said fine, but gave an example where she could doxx me in a way more similar to Chanty’s situation and said what would likely result from it and how I wouldn’t like it

    5) Someone responded BUT CLINT YOU FUCKING IDIOT THAT’S NOT WHAT HAPPENED TO HER.

    I mean we know that’s not what happened to her. It was a hypothetical situation someone was putting me in because that person thought I didn’t understand what happened to Chanty because I disagree with the assertion she was in no way guilty of anything more than being unpleasant in an interview.

    What she did do was get people so whipped up and angry and intent to disrupt the meeting that they went into the building with a bullhorn and someone pulled the alarm to make sure they would have to evacuate the building. False use of a fire alarm is a felony because it can result in DEATH. I mean if you had followed back my fb profile you’d see me on a fire truck. We take that shit seriously because if we have to respond to a false alarm because someone was having a party someone else didn’t like, then we aren’t at our firehouse to respond to a real fire and we have to defer that call to a station that is farther away. In the time it takes them to respond, someone could literally die. This isn’t funny and it isn’t cute and it isn’t within their rights to do that. As she was the leader, she is in part responsible for that behavior.

    I don’t see how you can possibly hold everyone loosely affiliated with the threats responsible of the threats, but not find Chanty responsible for that felonious fraudulent fire reporting.

  10. @freemage, how could I forget the lies? Yet another example just above: that RHA is “responsible for that felonious fraudulent fire reporting.” Bald-faced lie.

  11. False use of a fire alarm is a felony because it can result in DEATH

    Yes… but she did not pull the fire alarm.

    I mean if you had followed back my fb profile you’d see me on a fire truck.

    is this your way of saying you’re a fire fighter… because it’s very unclear.

    As she was the leader, she is in part responsible for that behavior.

    By this logic, since Obama is America’s leader for the moment, he is partly responsible for every murder in the country.

    I mean, do you have any evidence for her being responsible for it or encouraging people to pull it? Or is this just your attempt at back tracking because people have already called you on your earlier BS.

  12. @clint

    Where is your proof that *she* is the one who got everyone else all “whipped up and angry”? I don’t see how she isn’t just one of many participants who were all participating together. Her being responsible for the fire alarm pull would be dependent on her having made the fire alarm pull happen, which you haven’t proven, and certainly the fact that she was *surprised* when it happened indicates she wasn’t expecting it, thus did not push anyone to do it.

  13. Clint

    Show me the part of the video where she pulled the fire alarm.

    Failing that, show me the part where she told someone to pull it.

    If you still have trouble, show me the part where she mentioned it as a vague possibility.

    If none of that happened, but she’s still a felon (according to you), then how much jail time should the people who are making actual threats, detectable by non-psychics, get? I mean DAMN, right? Those guys must be straight up hardened criminals.

    Ps nothing is ever about you. Even this thing I am typing with your name at the top is not about you, it’s about me being sick in bed and bored.

  14. I once “incited” people at a strike rally held on a city sidewalk by telling them how wonderful and courageous they were, and they spontaneously burst through the police barriers and started dancing in the middle of the street. The cops just stood there and smiled at us, fraudulent felons that we were. We shut that block down for about 2 hours, and then peacefully went on our way.

    One of the proudest moments of my life, actually. I must be a terrible person! :D

  15. Can I make a suggestion? The best way to deal with people who desperately want attention is to ignore them.

  16. Also, fascinating fact, googling quickly informs me that simply pulling a fire alarm when there is no fire is a misdemeanor. It can only become a felony if someone is *injured* because of the false alarm (and then only if the injury is considered serious enough). So even even for whoever did pull the fire alarm, it still isn’t be a felony. Hmmm.

  17. I’m curious why the trolls come here for attention. I mean, is it really that enjoyable to get yelled at by people you’ve pissed off?

  18. clintiskkeen, I don’t really need an angry doofus around here pretending that redhead somehow committed a felony and committed harassment by attending a demonstration.

    If you wanted to argue that the demonstration was a bad idea, and that people being noisy in the hall when the talk was going on was rude or bad or even a violation of the rights of the people there to hear the talk, you could have made that argument w/o heaping blame on the one person here who’s getting threats. There were others at that demonstration. Someone other than her pulled the fire alarm.

    So I’m giving you a 24-hour-or-so time-out, and you’ll be on moderation after that.

  19. It’s the pissing people off that’s the appeal, I think. It apparently gives them great pleasure. Strange hobby.

  20. My guess is that vitriol and mockery is preferable to indifference, and those are their only choices since obviously they aren’t going to be well liked.

    Cloudiah: thanks! He’s a cutie :D

  21. Clint, I responded to the post YOU made. Pizza and taxis might be common after a doxxing, but not if you’re a woman. Women get death and rape threats after a doxxing. So happily for you, I made the post related to what you said. An because it was pizza and beer instead of pizza and taxis, that makes my point completely unrelated to what you’ve said? Lol, wut?

    But you know what? I also made my comment about the OP in relation to your point. I’m sorry to say that the world, my viewpoint and the things I want to talk about take very little consideration of your wishes.in fact, although I may be responding to you, it has more to do with my own motivations than any particular thing you may say.

    There is absolutely nothing you’ve said through pages and pages of threads that hasn’t been smacked down here before. I could substitute you with any number of trolls who pass through because nothing about you remotely stands out.

    So keep dancing troll. Tell me more about fraud? Pulling fire alarms doesn’t get a person charged with fraud here, btw.

  22. Awww… David took the chew toy away…

    Pulling a fire alarm in Ontario is a bit different. Pulling it once is a misdemeanor. By it comes with some stiff penalties. As long as whoever pulled it has a clean record, it will be a fine.

  23. Thanks, David.

  24. Oh look, it seems that ANY woman, even one doing her duty in the court room can be relentlessly harassed via social media. Also note that its the woman and not the male defence witnesses who is taking the brunt of the attacks.

    http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/witness/201304/digital-lynch-mob-assaults-expert-witness-in-murder-trial

    Seems we’ve had a lot of women come under fire this way, for nothing more than voicing their opinion in public or ensuring that their rights as human beings are respected.

  25. @ Clint:

    And really let’s face it, who hasn’t to some degree gotten online death threats?

    I haven’t, but then I’ve only recently started commenting on a feminist blog. Funny how people other than MRAs are able to express disagreement without graphically fantasizing about the ways in which their opponents “deserve” to be sexually assaulted.

    The point is that I also don’t think it’s fair for a blog that is about “mocking misogyny” to reverse engineer history to make this woman into a holy blameless martyr. I mean it’s one thing to leave out what she did because it’s not important to the narrative what happened to her is bad, but to change history and say “Her crime? She wasn’t exactly polite in responding to the interrupters.” is disingenuous.

    Like a number of other commenters on this blog, I don’t feel that RHA represents feminism at its finest. My sense is that RHA was singing “Cry Me a River” in response to the long litany of (often spurious) complaints intended to demonstrate the institutionalized oppression of males, rather than specifically in response to the statement about male suicide. However, no decent human being should dismiss or trivialize suicide by persons of any gender, and intentionally or otherwise, RHA was dismissive. I don’t know if she has apologized for this or not; if she hasn’t, I would like to see her do so. (Given that the statement she was attempting to read addresses the high rate of male suicide, I feel pretty confident that she doesn’t actually think that men killing themselves is fine and dandy, but it still wouldn’t hurt for her to say “hey, this isn’t something that I should have been singing ‘Cry Me a River’ about.”)

    On the other hand . . . before you go flinging any accusations of disingenuousness around, you might want to take a good hard look at the behavior you’re writing off as run-of-the-mill internet asshattery. All the explicit suggestions about which of her orifices should be sexually violated (and how her body should be disposed of afterwards)? The question directly asking her whether she hates men because she was too “disgustingly deformed” for her father to molest (’cause all little girls secretly want their daddies to molest them, amirite, lulz)? This isn’t just “derp harder” or “i hope u die a fire” or all those little nuggets of casual cruelty that get passed off as civil disagreement on teh interwebz. It’s deliberately, gleefully hateful, and it’s hateful in a way that is inextricably linked to RHA’s gender.

    I mean it’s probably true if she hadn’t done the interview and acted like the most unpleasant human being in recorded history . . .

    Really? Really? Even if we set aside all the downright monsters that history has produced, all the dictators and war-mongers and mass-murderers and genocidal maniacs, I don’t think RHA would even make it to the tryouts for “most unpleasant human being ever.” If all the vitriol that RHA has received isn’t enough to convince you, just browse through some of other epic nastiness David has highlighted on this blog. In comparison to Paul “fuck their shit up” Elam, and Heart-“slip her car into neutral while she’s driving”-tiste, RHA looks like the love child of Emily Post and Mahatmas Gandhi.

    Her crime wasn’t being a comically insane angry loon like Papa Slaughter, her crime was other things that came out because she was willing to make a side show out of herself. I mean have you SEEN any of the videos? Even the one where she isn’t marginalizing or harassing anyone she’s acting like someone who should be medicated in some way.

    Hmm. “Comically insane loon.” “Should be medicated.” For someone who’s so outraged by the trivialization of male suicide, you seem to have remarkably few qualms about treating mental illness as an insult.

  26. I like how he’s also like, nobody will threaten me because I’m a big bad military dude with guns and a giant dog!!! — and somehow (oh, wait, the dumb-how) doesn’t connect this to why it’s more insidious that a woman who, i’m assuming, doesn’t have military training and giant dogs, is receiving violent, gendered threats.

    /end clinty

    take back the night is tonight, and i’m too sick to go, and that’s boo.

  27. @cassandrasays

    Manboobz – the place where all the foot-related garments that ones loses in the dryer end up.

    At least that mystery is solved ;)

    @clint

    Now the first half is awaiting moderation and the second half isn’t. I think the system is mistaking me with a computer program :/

    I don’t blame it. You’re awfully redundant.

  28. youtube is just full of misogyny and men who hate feminists. people are posting comments about how this woman deserves to be raped and how they want to blow stuff up and they are getting thumbs up while people like me who call them out for their violent rhetoric get marked as spam. fuck it.

    the red-haired woman is courages and as a man i say she is extremely attractive. i hope she becomes more empowered by all the hate she has received. don’t back down, this is what these mras are hoping to achieve with their online cowardly harassment. don’t let them deter you from speaking out.

  29. Marie: Now, now, be nice. Most computer programs are WAY more creative than clinty.

    I mean, maybe one of those practice drills we used to do back in the 80s in Basic….

  30. @freemage

    True XD

    Also, computer knowledge lacking: is basic some kinda programming language, or is my brain garbling up everything again?

  31. Clint, dude, it was bad enough you were obsessed with SFD being Wrong On The Internet while you were still able to post there. Continuing to expend effort on them a year after they banned you is just sad.

  32. Marie: BASIC is exactly that–the ultra super-simple programming language. Every line is numbered, and the list of commands is… not long. But it was fun and cool and new back then, in the age of the Commodore 64 and the Atari 800.

  33. So this dude is the MRAL of some other site? Now I’m wondering if every lefty/progressive blog has one.

  34. Ah, BASIC. So simple and yet so annoying.

    I am an olds.

  35. pillowinhell, It totally makes sense they would go after that expert witness — the Jodi Arias trial is a cause célèbre of r/mensrights! Yet another case of a woman who dares speak in opposition to MRA causes and being targeted with threats of violence. It’s all just part of the pattern.

  36. @freemage

    At least I remembered something about it correctly then XD

  37. We used to have a subscription to 3 2 1 Contact Magazine, and for a while it was printing short BASIC programs in the back which you could type up and run.

    I remember a program for doing word searches for you. The problem was, you had to type in the puzzle line by line and then tell it what words to find. So you’d found half of them by the time you could use the program.

    Then there was another that tested your memory by making you a short-order cook being yelled orders by the waitress. That program gave you about a half-second to study the order. It felt kind of like this:

    I remember another program that would draw a volcano on your screen … slowly.

  38. The program I remember best from that era wasn’t one we wrote, it was far too large, but it was basically a solo fantasy RPG called Cave Quest. I never got too far in it. I remember I had a character who was slow as Christmas because I bought him the heaviest armor in the game without buying up his Strength, so every step he took sunk his energy into the negatives and I had to wait about a second between steps.

    No one else seems to remember it, I’ve found it referenced on one website and I haven’t found any freeware, shareware or abandonware of it.

  39. Spoke too soon! It’s called Cavequest!

  40. Now I have to get serious about learning DOSbox….

  41. OMGBASIC! I cut my programming teeth on QBasic in fourth grade. Good times, good times.

  42. pillowinhell: Why am I not surprised that clint is refusing to respond to anyone other than Pecunium?

    Pecunium, what’s your secret with the troll love?

    Actually, he’s not really responding to me. This is typical. I seem to overwhelm them.

  43. qocheedy: And really let’s face it, who hasn’t to some degree gotten online death threats?</i

    I have, but they've been in relation to my work on torture, or from MRA types; who seemed to think I was female in most of those. At least based on what they said. I've had some who just said I was "like a woman", but others which plainly assumed I was female (the language was graphic).

  44. Clint: I said the redhead committed incitement to felony fraud by enraging a group of people and storming a building with them brandishing a bullhorn. She did that and one of them pulled the fire alarm. I don’t see how that is libelous

    Felony fraud? No. Someone pulled a fire alarm fraudulently. That’s a different crime. In Ontario it’s a misdemeanor. Unless you (who weren’t there) can show that she said, “YANK THE FIRE ALARM”, this is libleous.

    Then you said this:

    freemage if you were half the internet lawyer you thought you were, you would know that libel is only when you can prove that the intent was to characterise someone in a manner inconsistent with the truth.

    You are the one who doesn’t understand libel. It comes in two forms. per se and per quod. Of the two per se is the easier to commit/determine. It’s libel on its face. It’s what you are doing when you say she committed a felony.

    Per quod is libel by circumstance. Its how English newspapers might be charged for, “libel by juxtapostion” wherein they put two news stories next to each other, and one might infer the second one was related to the first.

    Since RHA has not been so much as charged, you saying she committed a felony (which is, in law, an infamous act) is libel per se. You might be able to raise a Sullivan defense (were this in the US; it’s not, but since you are I’m couching in it terms which might help you in more usual stomping grounds), and claim that by becoming a public figure she lost some of her protections against libelous statements. However, since her fame is incidental to the event (she wasn’t trying to become famous, nor was she using it as a platform to promote herself, or a specific cause, etc.) this is tenuous. Also you aren’t a news organisation, though that protection would probably not help you as even were you such publishing a knowingly false claim (which you are, and are persisting in, even after it has been shown that the claim you made is false).

    Since you are persisting in it, even after it’s falsity has been shown, a reasonable person would probably conclude you have made the claim with malice. As such… I feel safe in saying you are a libelous turd.

    I say this as someone who was both the opinion, and managing, editor of a weekly paper. I say it as someone who has been libeled in a newspaper. I say it as someone who spent years living with the restrictions of libel in my mind on a daily basis. I say it as someone who managed, through a moment of inadvertence to commit libel (per se) (I said someone had been cited for speeding. While it may be true that she was guilty of speeding, she was cited with alleged violation of a posted speed limit; there is a subtle, but important, legal distinction).

    So I feel confident that I can call you a libelous sack of shit, since you have committed something which seems to be actionable libel (in the US). I’d be more than willing to defend against any such suit you tried to press against me, if you could afford to find a lawyer willing to take it.

    Good luck with that.

  45. Clint: I see you’ve been put on a time out. Which means you have time to ponder what I’ve got to say.

    This bit is in all seriousness, there is nothing ironic, nor mocking about it. It’s professional advice, in response to this:

    Any Doxxing would probably include my love for my 180 pound dog and the picture of the “I support the second amendment” sticker over the peephole in my front door. Someone would have to be a special mix of dumb and psychotic to respond to me with death and rape threats.

    Those are not dissuasive. Not only will those not stop internet threats, because internet threats are almost impossible to trace back; so any vague notion that you might try to turn the tables… not making it.

    They also don’t mean shit to someone who actually wants to attack you. I used to to Personal Protection Details (organised bodyguarding of people who were some type of high profile target. I’ve done it both in the States, and overseas).

    First thing you have to learn, there is nothing you can do to keep someone from getting to the target. If someone wants to get them, they will.

    Second thing: All one can really do in a proactive sense is be alert; knowing how to spot atypical behavior is one thing, but knowing that attackers know this means you have to not fixate on it, since having someone act as the nervous decoy can be a tactic to distract you from spotting the actual bad actor. This is why one has to have comms, and zones, and ranges of search and all the other tricks one uses to separate the non-threats (which are huge) from the possible threats (which are still huge) from the actual hostile (who are few and far between: it’s sort of like Shcrödinger’s Rapist).

    Third, a reactive target is a dead target. When the balloon goes up, the target has to be covered up, and the reaction team has to coalesce, while the non-reaction team gets the target out of the kill zone.

    You, as a self-defending target aren’t helping yourself by saying, “see how badass I am”. That (as with the presence of a known PPD) only discourages those who aren’t serious. Having a dog makes you a softer target; unless you have enough yard the dog never needs a walk you have to leave the house on a fairly regular basis.

    Telling people you have guns, makes you a target to attack more harshly. Unless you meet everyone who knocks at the door with a loaded gun in your hand, they don’t really help you. What telling the world you have them does is make the people who might otherwise just beat the snot out of you more likely to just shoot you (this is also true of the large dog).

    The takeaway is, if someone is really after you, they can get to you. You really don’t want them to think the only thing they can afford to do is shoot you.

  46. Shit… damn blockquote monster.

  47. Not remotely caught up, so this was probably said (lol, assuming Clint hasn’t been banned)

    “she’s acting like someone who should be medicated in some way.”

    Yeah yeah because god forbid someone who’s medicated might have a legitimate reason to be angry, just take some more pills and leave me alone. I’d yawn in boredom, but I get that shit too often. Hell, it gets a handwritten bit in Emilie Autumn’s book.

    Shorter version, you want some ableism with your misogyny Clint?

  48. Argenti: Ableism is not wanting in Clint’s misogyny.

  49. Was closer to caught up than I thought. And I see Clint got a 4chan-esque cool off period.

    “1) Someone asked me how I would feel about her doxxing my facebook info here and now”

    Your very first premise is false. The question was not about how you’d feel if readily available info was posted here, but how you’d feel if everything that was posted about her, where posted about you — phone, home addy, dating profiles, etc.

    And I’ve never gotten death threats, hell, not even NWO tried that shit.

  50. Lol it was a joke, but you got that I guess. You want some hazelnut creamer with your coffee though? I have a fresh batch! (Also a joke, unless you feel like taking a vacation, and oh boy could we use extra hands cleaning out my grandfather’s!)

  51. I take heavy cream with my coffee, as God intended. :)

  52. Lol, well you enjoy that. Me and my lactose intolerant self will stick with fake creamer!

  53. I am glad that there is a way for you to have a creamlike experience.

  54. ZOMG! Atari 800! ZOMG!! Basic!!

    That brings back memories…jesus and to think that todays toaster has more computational power than my first computers!!

    Although no one was more relieved than I when printer paper started being made larger than four inches and cassette tapes were discarded as memory devices.

  55. Pecunium, in any other context! *dies*

    Blame shopping Walmart for shelving because god forbid I just find ikea shelves. My brain, it is jello.

  56. Holy shit, clintiskeen still exists? i guess livejournal doesn’t garner enough attention these days, eh bro?

  57. Clint, talking isn’t a felony. Pulling the fire alarm is, and the person that did that was some one that wanted to shut her up. What you are saying is, that she should be arrested and tried for pulling the fire alarm, because she said something some one else didn’t want to hear, and acted like a baby when they did hear it?

  58. Somebody, this thread’s almost a year old – pretty much a waste of time replying to it now.

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